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Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 09:48 am:


Please could you answer my questions from Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 02:43 pm Done, with my apologies. Man was never formed that all times might attain but sometime he was put to the wosre by malfortune
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know if the Unification Church is a Christian one or not (I suppose I could ask my friend's brother-in-law)--something like that? Mass-marriages relevant? Marrying someone you don't know? I also don't consider B'hai to be a Christian religion, per se, but what the heck, let's throw that out there as well.

Was the emotion something she felt through empathy?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she engage in experiential research?
Were mind altering substances involved?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 03:44 pm:


I don't know if the Unification Church is a Christian one or not (I suppose I could ask my
friend's brother-in-law)--something like that? yes, it is the Unification church, & since their Website talks about Jesus, I figure they're in some sense Christian. Wrong inference on my part? Let me know--many people on this forum apparently know much more about religion that I do Mass-marriages relevant? yope Marrying someone you
don't know? yope I also don't consider B'hai to be a Christian religion, per se, but what the heck,
let's throw that out there as well.It's not Bahai (see above)

Was the emotion something she felt through empathy? no

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 05:35 pm:


Did she engage in experiential research? no
Were mind altering substances involved? Well, she didn't take any. I don't know whether Unif. Church members do
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the emotion resemble envy in any way? admiration?

you say 'yope' to mass marriages... do you mean that just one occasion of a mass marriage is relevant? or that other types of marriage are relevant as well? or that customs associated with marriages are relevant rather than the marriage itself? I have heard about a custom which involves the couple hitting each other before the ceremony - is that relevant?

or is the 'yope' because the relevant practice is not actually a marriage? but rather a 'blessing'?

so this emotion was felt by Freesia as she read about the Unification Church? about their customs or rituals? or about what a young person goes through to become an adult member of the church?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the emotion arise as a result of a mental conflict? a conflict between hating someone's ideas but liking what they do? or vice versa?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:39 pm:


does the emotion resemble envy in any way? no admiration? no

you say 'yope' to mass marriages... do you mean that just one occasion of a mass marriage is
relevant? no or that other types of marriage are relevant as well? no or that customs associated with
marriages are relevant rather than the marriage itself? yope I have heard about a custom which
involves the couple hitting each other before the ceremony - is that relevant? no

or is the 'yope' because the relevant practice is not actually a marriage? yope but rather a 'blessing'? yope


so this emotion was felt by Freesia as she read about the Unification Church? yope about their
customs or rituals? yope or about what a young person goes through to become an adult member of
the church? yope

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:47 pm:


does the emotion arise as a result of a mental conflict? no a conflict between hating someone's
ideas but liking what they do? no or vice versa? no
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the emotion..

was it brought about by thoughts like: I'm glad I don't have to do that? I wish I could do that? I wouldn't like to be in that position? I wish I was in that position? I would act differently in that situation? I hope I would act differently in that situation? I'm afraid I wouldn't act differently in that situation?

I sometimes feel that I would like to be put into a situation where someone is really trying to 'hard sell' a product just so I can prove to myself that I would not succumb while others might (for instance vacation Time Share presentations which I'm told can go on for hours to wear you down) - does this type of situation/feeling have any relevance here?

does the emotion have an element of self satisfaction? smugness? a feeling of superiority?

is it akin to an emotion one might feel on going into battle in some way? or knowing one is entering some kind of conflict?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:18 pm:


the emotion..

was it brought about by thoughts like: I'm glad I don't have to do that? no I wish I could do that? no
I wouldn't like to be in that position? no I wish I was in that position? no I would act differently in that
situation? yes I hope I would act differently in that situation? no I'm afraid I wouldn't act differently in
that situation? no

I sometimes feel that I would like to be put into a situation where someone is really trying to
'hard sell' a product just so I can prove to myself that I would not succumb while others might
(for instance vacation Time Share presentations which I'm told can go on for hours to wear you
down) - does this type of situation/feeling have any relevance here? no

does the emotion have an element of self satisfaction? no smugness? no a feeling of superiority? no

is it akin to an emotion one might feel on going into battle in some way? noor knowing one is
entering some kind of conflict? no
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do know, from what my friend has said, that her brother's conversion/induction/indoctrination/whatever was very painful for the family, due to the imposed lack of any communication, although now he's free to interact with them. He was attending CIT on a scholarship at the time, I believe.

Does it have anything to do with her feelings about religious choice? Family ties? Does she have children? Has she found herself questioning something she believed completely?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so she is sitting there, reading about the rituals of the unification church? as part of her research? and she reads of a situation where she believes she would act differently? and along with this thought she feels emotion X? which many people would consider to be a negative emotion? but some adventurous types might quite enjoy? or some people who are very strong willed and like to pit their wits against others might enjoy?

does whether the emotion is percieved as negative or positive depend to some extent upon whether the feeler happily embraces strangeness and change in their lives or not?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 09:16 pm:


I do know, from what my friend has said, that her brother's
conversion/induction/indoctrination/whatever was very painful for the family, due to the imposed lack
of any communication, although now he's free to interact with them. He was attending CIT on a
scholarship at the time, I believe. Many people make choices that are very painful for their families. Many parents find it very painful if their children leave the family religion. And it's not just the "Moonies" who restrict members' interactions with the outside world. So do Catholic monastaries. In a free country, people can't be compelled to do as their families want

Does it have anything to do with her feelings about religious choice? yope Family ties? yope Does she
have children? irrel Has she found herself questioning something she believed completely? yes

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 09:48 pm:


so she is sitting there, reading about the rituals of the unification church? no as part of her
research? no and she reads of a situation where she believes she would act differently?yesish and along
with this thought she feels emotion X? yes which many people would consider to be a negative
emotion? yes but some adventurous types might quite enjoy? yes or some people who are very strong
willed and like to pit their wits against others might enjoy? yes

does whether the emotion is percieved as negative or positive depend to some extent upon
whether the feeler happily embraces strangeness and change in their lives or not? yesish
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the emotion brought about by having to accept that other people must be allowed to make decisions for themselves which you believe would harm them? and that young people should also be allowed to make these decisions?

is it akin to the emotion a parent might feel on seeing their child make a decision that they believe to be wrong? but being glad that the child feels strongly enough to stand up for itself against them?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:26 pm:


was the emotion brought about by having to accept that other people must be allowed to make
decisions for themselves which you believe would harm them? no and that young people should
also be allowed to make these decisions? no

is it akin to the emotion a parent might feel on seeing their child make a decision that they
believe to be wrong? yes but being glad that the child feels strongly enough to stand up for itself
against them? noish
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the emotion carry an element of helplessness? of being unable to stop a wrong happening? of being unable to protect someone?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 10:49 pm:


does the emotion carry an element of helplessness? no of being unable to stop a wrong
happening? no of being unable to protect someone? no
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, but they can be compelled to do what religious authorities want...and while I can appreciate the arguments for isolation, I still feel it impugns the validity of the faith: if they have the truth, won't it survive such contact? Another difference to consider is that Catholic groups doing the same thing are not expecting the initiates to venture out into the world as something other than a monk or nun, nor do they do it to everyone who joins the faith.

Did Freesia have particular beliefs about lifemates/partners? About what is necessary to have a good/lasting marriage? Did she come across a statistic about the Unification church members which made her question (or even discard) her belief? Did she have some sort of epiphany?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what we know so far about this emotion:

it is not akin to -
excitement? fear? embarrassment? love? happiness? pride? anxiety? ambivalence?


it is:
a mixed emotion with pleasant and unpleasant aspects?
an unusual emotion? most people would find it unpleasant? some, including you, would enjoy it?
for some it might cause despair or depression?

it carries an element of surprise? strangeness?
and it is akin to the emotion a parent might feel on seeing their child make a decision that they
believe to be wrong?

the emotion is evoked by knowing about the actions/decisions of another person?

just to check - is the emotion actually a lack of emotion? in a situation where one would be expected to feel emotion? is there an element of withdrawing from what seems to be an emotionally charged situation to be able to look upon it dispassionately?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 01:59 am:


Ah, but they can be compelled to do what religious authorities want.. No, they can't be compelled. They are free to leave.and while I can appreciate the
arguments for isolation, I still feel it impugns the validity of the faith: if they have the truth, won't it
survive such contact? Well, I agree with you here. I'm not defending religious views, just the right of the Unification church to act on its views Another difference to consider is that Catholic groups doing the same thing are
not expecting the initiates to venture out into the world as something other than a monk or nun,One thing this sociologist found is that the deceptive practices UC members use in the US are not used in the UK ( I don't know why) nor do
they do it to everyone who joins the faith. True, but beside my point, since no one is forced to join the faith

Did Freesia have particular beliefs about lifemates/partners? no About what is necessary to have a
good/lasting marriage? no Did she come across a statistic about the Unification church members
which made her question (or even discard) her belief? no Did she have some sort of epiphany? no

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:15 am:


what we know so far about this emotion:

it is not akin to -
excitement? fear? embarrassment? love? happiness? pride? anxiety? ambivalence? not akin to any of them


it is:
a mixed emotion with pleasant and unpleasant aspects? possibly
an unusual emotion? yes!! most people would find it unpleasant? probably some, including you, would enjoy
it? yes. I have felt it & I love it!!!!
for some it might cause despair or depression?

it carries an element of surprise? yes strangeness? yes
and it is akin to the emotion a parent might feel on seeing their child make a decision that
they
believe to be wrong? unlikely
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the emotion is evoked by knowing about the actions/decisions of another person? yes

just to check - is the emotion actually a lack of emotion? no in a situation where one would be
expected to feel emotion? is there an element of withdrawing from what seems to be an
emotionally charged situation to be able to look upon it dispassionately? no
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I need help on this one.. I'm running out of things to ask!
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 09:37 pm:


I need help on this one.. I'm running out of things to ask!G:O:OD!!!! HINT: She wasn't just reading about the "Moonies;" she was observing & interviewing them directly. HINT #2: Think about common reactions to the "Moonies."