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Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he had eaten one, or both together, he would have been OK


My first puzzle for a long time. Should be a quicky
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Damien... so the usual questions:

Are both "he's" the same person?

If so, is he a human adult male? ALive?

It implies that he had not eaten any and therefore is not OK. Is this right?

"one" and "both" - does this refer to what you would classify as "normal" food (which we would probably usually eat)? Does this refer to anything of animal/vegetable origin? SOmething else
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) :

Hi Damien... Hi Alizon

Are both "he's" the same person? Yes

If so, is he a human adult male? Human teenage male
ALive? Yes

It implies that he had not eaten any and therefore is not OK. Is this right? No. FA

"one" and "both" - does this refer to what you would classify as "normal" food (which we would probably usually eat)? No
Does this refer to anything of animal/vegetable origin? No
SOmething else? Yes
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that he had not eaten any?

Or that he is not OK?

Are"one" and "both" the same type of thing?

Mineral? Manmade?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon

Is the FA that he had not eaten any? This

Or that he is not OK?

Are "one" and "both" the same type of thing? Yes

Mineral? Yes Manmade? Yope
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he had eaten some, at least one. Correct?

Did it cause him serious health problems?

Is the thing he ate valuable? Would you eat it?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon

So he had eaten some, at least one. Correct? Yes. He ate two

Did it cause him serious health problems? Yes

Is the thing he ate valuable? No
Would you eat it? Definitely not
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the problem that he did not eat them together?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As Alizon has noted, there seems to be a timing issue with the eating...

Are they the same? Just to clarify, were they intended for human consumption? Animal consumption?

Is his motivation for eating them relevant?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alizon

Was the problem that he did not eat them together? Yope

Tim A. Dowd

Are they the same? Yes
Just to clarify, were they intended for human consumption? Animal consumption? Neither

Is his motivation for eating them relevant? No
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps a better statement would have been "If he had eaten just one, or both together, he would have been OK"
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, he ate one, then there was a pause, and then he ate the other one. Correct?

Is it relevant how long the pause was?

It seems that eating No. 2 would have mitigated /annulled the effect of eating No.1. Correct?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:56 pm:

So, he ate one, then there was a pause, and then he ate the other one. Correct? Yes

Is it relevant how long the pause was? YES

It seems that eating No. 2 would have mitigated /annulled the effect of eating No.1. Correct? No
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he had eaten both together, would he have been ok?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The pause - did it last seconds? minutes? days? weeks? months? years?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:46 am:

If he had eaten both together, would he have been ok? Yes

By Alizon (Alizon) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:46 am:

The pause - did it last seconds? minutes? days? weeks? months? years? Somewhere between 3 and 24 hours is most likely
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they inert or did they change when in his body (stomach acids or similar agents?)
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:58 am:

Were they inert or did they change when in his body (stomach acids or similar agents?) Inert
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they likely to... er... naturally leave his body? If so, was the 3-24 time span relevant in the sense that when he ate No.2., No 1 would already have left his body?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alizon

Were they likely to... er... naturally leave his body? Yes, if....
If so, was the 3-24 time span relevant in the sense that when he ate No.2., No 1 would already have left his body? No, not his body, but...
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...No. 1 would already have left some relevant part of his body? Is it relevant exactly what these serious health problems were?

Am I likely to have this item that he ate in my home? In my school? In an office? Am I likely ever to have seen this item?

Is it the case that no.1 'damaged' the man's body in some way? That no.2 worsened it, and therefore created the health problems?

Is he likely to die from these health problems?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ed Mason (Logician) on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:24 am:

...No. 1 would already have left some relevant part of his body? Yes
Is it relevant exactly what these serious health problems were? Yes


Am I likely to have this item that he ate in my home? Not likely but quite possible
In my school? More likely
In an office? Less likely
Am I likely ever to have seen this item? Yes

Is it the case that no.1 'damaged' the man's body in some way? Yope
That no.2 worsened it, and therefore created the health problems? No, not like this

Is he likely to die from these health problems? He didn't (this was a true event) but would have if not treated
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has he some allergy?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they cause a blockage of some kind? Should we determine approximately how far the first had made it through his digestive system? Did it pass out of his stomach? Out of his small intestine?

If he had eaten both together, would they have prevented each other from traveling further through his digestive tract? Would the second have (in conjunction with the first) triggered reverse peristals...perestal...made him throw up (if they had been consumed at the same time, I mean)?

Is it made of metal? Stone?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David Burn (Woubit)

Has he some allergy? No

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 03:17 pm:

Did they cause a blockage of some kind? No
Should we determine approximately how far the first had made it through his digestive system? YES
Did it pass out of his stomach? YES
Out of his small intestine? NO

If he had eaten both together, would they have prevented each other from traveling further through his digestive tract? No
Would the second have (in conjunction with the first) triggered reverse peristals...perestal...made him throw up (if they had been consumed at the same time, I mean)? I think I know what you mean. :) No

Is it made of metal? Yes Stone? No

Great questions
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a sword swallower?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David Burn (Woubit)

Was he a sword swallower? No
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his canal perforate?
Did he get peritonitis?
Did anything get lodged in his appendix?

Were the items each 100% metal or just partially metal?
Ball bearings?
Bullets?
Magnets?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he swallow 2 magnets?
Would the two connected magnets have been too small to enter his appendix and would therefore have passed out of his gut, but one by itself became lodged?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Simon Downham (Beroean) on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 02:27 pm:

Did his canal perforate? YES
Did he get peritonitis? Yes
Did anything get lodged in his appendix? No

Were the items each 100% metal or just partially metal?
Ball bearings?
Bullets?
Magnets? See below


Did he swallow 2 magnets? YES!!
Would the two connected magnets have been too small to enter his appendix and would therefore have passed out of his gut, but one by itself became lodged? No
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see - I think.
After a delay in swallowing the two magnets, they were attracted to each other whilst their location was in different parts of the gut?

This caused pressure against the wall of part of the small intestine and lead to a perforation?
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Simon Downham (Beroean) on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 09:33 pm:

I see - I think.
After a delay in swallowing the two magnets, they were attracted to each other whilst their location was in different parts of the gut? Yes

This caused pressure against the wall of part of the small intestine and lead to a perforation? Correct. Well done!


********** SPOILER **********

For reasons known only to himself our hero, a teenage boy, swallowed two small but strong magnets. His big error was to swallow them several hours apart, by which time the first had left the stomach and was navigating the rest of the alimentary tract.
Time and peristalsis combined to inevitably bring the magnets into adjoining loops of small intestine. The magnets locked tightly together, inducing an ischaemic necrosis of the intervening intestinal walls. A bowel perforation ensued, with life-threatening peritonitis.
The boy survived with surgery, but of course would never been in trouble if he had swallowed the magnets together and they had united in the stomach
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Damien - good puzzle.
And this was a real life case?!!
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, it happened recently in North America. A bit scary, isn't it, that something as innocuous as a pair of small magnets could possibly kill you in this simple way
Arjun Rangarajan (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One wonders what else the surgeon might have found in the boy's intestines while looking for the magnets...
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A good candidate for the Darwin Award!
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, after all, they feed magnets to cows, and there's lots of pseudo-science hype about magnets providing healing, so perhaps it was an attempt to cure his chronic IBS or something...

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