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Archive through February 10, 2005miroac22 2-10-05  9:16 pm
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Peter Johnson (Astraz)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The club / group - is it
religious? martial art? workplace? Pub? medical?

Was the money won on the bet for charity? or for himself?.

Were these two men related?
Did they live or work together?

Is this a real life event? or imaginary?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The club / group - is it
religious? martial art? workplace? Pub? medical? No to these, but Pub is sort of OTRT

Was the money won on the bet for charity? or for himself? partial FA, but Yes to for himself

Were these two men related? No
Did they live or work together? No

Is this a real life event? Yope, moreso No or imaginary? Yope, moreso Yes
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could we call the man who did not talk and therefore won the bet, Tom? And the other man involved Bob?

So, the subject of the bet was that Tom would refrain from speaking for one year and, if he managed to do so, Bob would pay him a certain sum of money, right?

Is the amount of money relevant?

Did Tom actually win the bet?

If so, did he suffer any loss as a consequence of not talking that outweighed his gain from the bet?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this 'no-talking' bet the only bet in which Tom(?) was involved in during that time period?
Is it important to know how the bet came to be?
During the year of silence, were there situations in which Tom needed to talk, but because of the bet he forced himself not to?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could we call the man who did not talk and therefore won the bet, Tom? And the other man involved Bob? Sure

So, the subject of the bet was that Tom would refrain from speaking for one year and, if he managed to do so, Bob would pay him a certain sum of money, right? Exactly correct

Is the amount of money relevant? Yope.

Did Tom actually win the bet? Technically, Yes, but... "He won, and yet, he didn't."

If so, did he suffer any loss as a consequence of not talking that outweighed his gain from the bet? Yope, and partial FA

Was this 'no-talking' bet the only bet in which Tom(?) was involved in during that time period? Yes
Is it important to know how the bet came to be? Yope
During the year of silence, were there situations in which Tom needed to talk, but because of the bet he forced himself not to? Technically, No, but explore.

I hate using Yope so much and being so vague, but I don't want to give too much away.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is sign language involved in any way? Deafness?
Prior to the bet, was Tom notorious as a frequent talker? A loud talker? A braggart?
Did the bet arise from a discussion only between Tom and Bob? Were other people involved in the making of the bet?

When the year of the bet was over, could it be proven that Tom had not spoken to anyone during the time frame of the bet?
Was there any question as to whether Tom had spoken to anyone during the time of the bet?

When you say "He won", do you mean that he successfully met the requirements of the bet?
Did he receive the reward promised to him by Bob if he could avoid talking for a year?
Did Bob gain anything from this bet?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is sign language involved in any way? No Deafness? No
Prior to the bet, was Tom notorious as a frequent talker? A loud talker? A braggart? Yes, to all 3
Did the bet arise from a discussion only between Tom and Bob? Yes, slight -ish Were other people involved in the making of the bet? No, slight -ish

When the year of the bet was over, could it be proven that Tom had not spoken to anyone during the time frame of the bet? Yes
Was there any question as to whether Tom had spoken to anyone during the time of the bet? No

When you say "He won", do you mean that he successfully met the requirements of the bet? Yes, he did. But there's still something else...
Did he receive the reward promised to him by Bob if he could avoid talking for a year? NO. Good question.
Did Bob gain anything from this bet? Yes-ish.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok,so tell me if I'm wrong or FA on the following:
Bob made a bet that Tom could not go a year without talking?
Tom agreed to accept the challenge?
A reward was promised to Tom if he could meet the requirements of the bet?
Tom went an entire year without speaking?
Even though Tom did as required, Bob did not pay him the promised reward for the bet?

Was the pay-off of the bet relatively large?
Was Tom wealthy? Was Bob? Relevant?
Is either man's job relevant? Hobbies? Age? Physical appearance?

So Tom did not receive the promised reward from Bob - was this because...
Bob couldn't afford to pay up at the end of the year?
Bob found a 'loophole' to get out of paying?
Bob paid in a form of currency different than what Tom was expecting to get?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok,so tell me if I'm wrong or FA on the following:
Bob made a bet that Tom could not go a year without talking? Yes
Tom agreed to accept the challenge? Yes
A reward was promised to Tom if he could meet the requirements of the bet? Yes
Tom went an entire year without speaking? Yes
Even though Tom did as required, Bob did not pay him the promised reward for the bet? Yes

Was the pay-off of the bet relatively large? Yes
Was Tom wealthy? No Was Bob? NO Relevant? Yes
Is either man's job relevant? Hobbies? Age? Physical appearance? No to these.

So Tom did not receive the promised reward from Bob - was this because...
Bob couldn't afford to pay up at the end of the year? Yes
Bob found a 'loophole' to get out of paying? No
Bob paid in a form of currency different than what Tom was expecting to get? No

We've basically got most of the whole story--
Bob initiated the bet, Tom accepted, and at the end of the year, Bob revealed that he couldn't afford to pay. This in itself is reason enough to say that Tom actually didn't win, but there is one other thing yet to be discovered that is another reason he didn't actually win.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant third party involved (not necessarily with the bet, but in the scenario)?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant third party involved (not necessarily with the bet, but in the scenario)? Yope-- Bob and Tom were members of a club/group, and the other members witnessed these events.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

During the initiation of the bet and during the year of the challenge, was Bob dishonest at any time? Was Tom dishonest at any time?
Did Bob admit to Tom that he couldn't afford to pay up?
Did Bob somehow make Tom believe that he had been paid fairly?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

During the initiation of the bet and during the year of the challenge, was Bob dishonest at any time? No Was Tom dishonest at any time? YES!

Did Bob admit to Tom that he couldn't afford to pay up? Yes, but only after the year had .
Did Bob somehow make Tom believe that he had been paid fairly? No
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's try that again...
Did Bob admit to Tom that he couldn't afford to pay up? Yes, but only after the year had ended and Tom had kept silent the entire year.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom commit one single act of dishonesty? More than one?
Was he dishonest before the bet? During? After?
Could it be said that, due to this dishonesty, Bob really should not have had to pay Tom anything?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom commit one single act of dishonesty? Yes More than one? No
Was he dishonest before the bet? During? After? After the bet was made and accepted, but before the year started.
Could it be said that, due to this dishonesty, Bob really should not have had to pay Tom anything? Yes!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Allright, so how much time passed between the time Tom accepted the bet and the 'official' year started -
a few minutes?
hours?
days?
weeks?
months?
more than this?

Did Tom figure out a way to appear to win the bet, but needed time to make some arrangements before the 'year' started?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Allright, so how much time passed between the time Tom accepted the bet and the 'official' year started -
a few minutes?
hours?
days?
weeks?
months?
more than this?
I'm not actually sure, but days to weeks would make the most sense to me.

Did Tom figure out a way to appear to win the bet, but needed time to make some arrangements before the 'year' started? Yes, and OTRT
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these 'arrangements' have connection with:
his job?
his family?
his activities?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these 'arrangements' have connection with:
his job?
his family?
his activities? None of these.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom do something so that he could go a year without talking and not 'suffer' as much as if he hadn't made the arrangements?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom do something so that he could go a year without talking and not 'suffer' as much as if he hadn't made the arrangements? for part of that, Yes; for the other part, I'm not sure how to answer. Could you rephrase it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll try to rephrase as best I can...

After taking the bet, did Tom do something so that the lack of talking would not affect him negatively?

If so, did this 'something' he did involve -
making a phone call? several calls?
moving to another town/city?
writing something?
telling anyone else about the bet?

Aside from not being able to talk, was Tom able to carry on life as normal?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After taking the bet, did Tom do something so that the lack of talking would not affect him negatively? ok, I understand. No.

If so, did this 'something' he did involve -
making a phone call? several calls?
moving to another town/city?
writing something?
telling anyone else about the bet? No to these.

Aside from not being able to talk, was Tom able to carry on life as normal? during the year of the bet, Yope or No-ish.

HINT: Bob and the members of the club could watch Tom during the entire year to see if he would talk or not.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Bob famous?
Was Tom?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Bob famous? Was Tom? No, to both.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant/helpful to know what kind of club Tom and Bob were members of?
Did they have something in common other than just their membership to this club?
Tom never received the full payout for winning the bet, is that correct? Or did he receive something?
Is Tom's dishonesty connected to:
the conditions of the bet?
Bob's understanding of what Tom will have to do to fulfill the bet?

When Bob makes the bet, he assumes that the only change for the next year will be that Tom does not speak? But Tom makes some kind of change in his life that Bob didn't expect him to make? or didn't know he made?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant/helpful to know what kind of club Tom and Bob were members of? not really; it was just a social club or country club
Did they have something in common other than just their membership to this club? No
Tom never received the full payout for winning the bet, is that correct? Correct Or did he receive something? No, nothing.
Is Tom's dishonesty connected to:
the conditions of the bet? the conditions being that he wouldn't talk for a year, Yes.
Bob's understanding of what Tom will have to do to fulfill the bet? Bob's understanding was that Tom wouldn't talk for a year, so, in that sense, Yes.

When Bob makes the bet, he assumes that the only change for the next year will be that Tom does not speak? Yes-ish. Let me clarify the hint before-- for the entire period of the year, Tom lives inside the clubhouse, where Bob and the other members can always be around him.
But Tom makes some kind of change in his life that Bob didn't expect him to make? YES or didn't know he made? YES
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is making my brain hurt...

Does Tom plan to communicate with people in some other way besides talking?
Does Tom's "plan" involve making some kind of arrangement so he can live in the clubhouse for a year?
After Tom accepts the bet from Bob, does he make or accept any additional bets before the year starts?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is making my brain hurt...
I'll try to ease your pain as best I can, or make it go away.

Does Tom plan to communicate with people in some other way besides talking? Yes (by writing on paper)
Does Tom's "plan" involve making some kind of arrangement so he can live in the clubhouse for a year? No, OWT
After Tom accepts the bet from Bob, does he make or accept any additional bets before the year starts? No

Hint: Think of "arrangements" in a broader sense.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap? Good point.

********** RECAP **********
(plus a little extra info)

Bob and Tom are both members of the same social club. Tom is known in the club as an incessent, loud, obnoxious talker and braggart.
Bob initiates a bets with Tom that he can't go an entire year without talking. He wagers a fairly large sum of money. Tom accepts.
Before the year starts, the club basement is set up so that Tom can live there the entire year, where Bob and other members of the club can make sure he fulfills his part of the wager.
Before the year starts, Tom also makes some as yet undetermined "arrangements" of his own, which we have determined was a single act of dishonesty.
At the end of the year, Tom has successfully fulfilled his part of the wager by not talking at all the entire time.
Bob then reveals that he does not have the money to pay up on his end of the bargain.
Even though Tom didn't talk the entire year, it could be said that he didn't actually win the bet 1) because he didn't get the money he was promised, and 2) because of his "dishonest arrangement".
Oneida (Theoneida)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom have a surgical procedure that made it impossible for him to speak?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom have a surgical procedure that made it impossible for him to speak? YES!!


********** SPOILER **********

He won, and yet, he didn't.

This story was taken from an original episode of the Twilight Zone called "The Silence".
Dref guessed this early on, being a big TZ fan. So am I.

Here's one link to the original story: "The Silence"

In the show, Tom's name is Jamie Tennyson, and Bob's name is Archie Taylor.

Here's my version, which is basically the recap above, plus the final detail.

Bob and Tom are both members of the same social club. Tom is known in the club as an incessent, loud, obnoxious talker and braggart.

Bob initiates a bets with Tom that he can't go an entire year without talking. He wagers a fairly large sum of money. Tom accepts.

Before the year starts, the club basement is set up so that Tom can live there the entire year, where Bob and other members of the club can make sure he fulfills his part of the wager.

During the year, Tom communicates by writing messages on pieces of paper. Bob tries very hard to get Tom to speak on several occasions, but Tom never does.

At the end of the year, Tom has successfully fulfilled his part of the wager by not talking at all the entire time.

Bob then reveals that he does not have the money to pay up on his end of the bargain-- he used to have money several years ago, but lost it all. He never intended to pay on the wager because he never believed Tom could actually stay quiet. He reasoned that even a month or two without hearing Tom speak would be a very good thing.

Tom then reveals, in writing, that before the year started, he had had his vocal chords severed, because he knew he would not be able to fulfill his part of the wager either.

Even though Tom didn't talk the entire year, it could be said that he didn't actually win 1) because he didn't get the money he was promised, 2) because he cheated, and 3) because he'll never be able to speak again the rest of his life.

Good job, everyone, especially Ixoye724 for carrying the bulk of the story, and Oneida for the final piece of the puzzle. (That's the second one of mine for Oneida today.)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great puzzle! I wasn't thinking along the lines of Tom doing anything to himself, so it may have taken me a while longer to get there.

Enjoyed this one!
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Ixoye. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I enjoyed doing it.

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