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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PTO
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is that an acronym?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "PTO" here an abbreviation for something?
Does it mean "please turn over" in the context of this puzzle?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've done that - what next? How high?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Fred Z (Dref) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:12 pm:

Is that an acronym? yes, and help is at hand :)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

Is "PTO" here an abbreviation for something? yes
Does it mean "please turn over" in the context of this puzzle? indeed it does :)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:24 pm:

I've done that - what next? who, as the Spanish say, does not know? How high? I am the ghost of Rudolph Byng...
dryman (Dryman)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 3:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the letters "PTO" physically present on something? A piece of paper?
Peter J (Astraz)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is PTO written on an exam paper, of which a protractor cannot be used in the exam ?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By dryman (Dryman) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 03:19 am:


Are the letters "PTO" physically present on something? A piece of paper? no. And welcome back, Dryman :)

By Peter J (Astraz) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:29 pm:

Is PTO written on an exam paper, no of which a protractor cannot be used in the exam ? the title isn't all that relevant - don't worry about it :)
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there people involved? 1,2,...,1000000000000000?
Does someone "turn over" something?

Does anyone die? Is anyone already dead?
I'm currently of the persuasion that most all LPs involve someone dying somehow :). I'm not usually a morbid person, except when it comes to LPs.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By miroac (Miroac) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 05:52 pm:

Are there people involved? yes 1 this one ,2,...,1000000000000000?
Does someone "turn over" something? yes

Does anyone die? no Is anyone already dead? no
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please turn over...the pillow? the paper?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Fred Z (Dref) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 06:45 pm:

Please turn over...the pillow? no the paper? yesish
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the page?
book?
was he reading something on the item?
on the front?
back?
both?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By kerry hearne (Kerry) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 01:22 pm:

the page? yesish
book? no
was he reading something on the item? yes
on the front?
back? this one
both?

Good to see you again, Kerry :)
David Joshua Faber (Taliesintwo)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he supposed to be reading "something"?

did the turning over stop his ability to read the "something"? or enable it?
(as in was the front up and he turned it over to read the back? or was the back up and he was reading it and he turned it to the front and stopped reading?)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By David Joshua Faber (Taliesintwo) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 07:38 pm:

was he supposed to be reading "something"? no

did the turning over stop his ability to read the "something"? or enable it? nothing like this, I'm afraid

(as in was the front up and he turned it over to read the back? or was the back up and he was reading it and he turned it to the front and stopped reading?)
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he reading some form of instructions?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Fred Z (Dref) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:18 pm:

Was he reading some form of instructions? no, but this is not a million miles from the right forest
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a multi paged item?
or is the item a single page only?
is it bound?
like a calendar?
diary?
newspaper?
magazine?
is it a container?
like a carton/box?
envelope?
tin?
bag?
video?
cd/dvd cover?
is it a commercially printed item?
or is it hand written?
is he reading something to be entertained?
to identify the writer? owner?
to find out how to do something?
how to get somewhere?
or is it general information about the item itself?
like a synopsis of a book, movie etc...
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By kerry hearne (Kerry) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 03:12 am:

is it a multi paged item? yesish
or is the item a single page only? no
is it bound? no
like a calendar? no
diary? no
newspaper? no
magazine? no
is it a container? no
like a carton/box? no
envelope? no, but...
tin? no
bag? no
video? no
cd/dvd cover? no
is it a commercially printed item? yes
or is it hand written? and yes
is he reading something to be entertained? no
to identify the writer? owner? no
to find out how to do something? no
how to get somewhere? no
or is it general information about the item itself? yes
like a synopsis of a book, movie etc... but not this kind of thing
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it some sort of postal item?
packaging?
sachel?
is he delivering something to someone?
sending something?
does it hold something inside it?
something that is separate to the outer covering?
is it flat?
a manilla folder or similar?
is it an office item?
household?
manufacturing?
educational?
does he own the item?
did he do any of the writing?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By kerry hearne (Kerry) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 03:37 am:

is it some sort of postal item? it can be sent via the post, yes
packaging? no
sachel? no
is he delivering something to someone? no
sending something? yes
does it hold something inside it? no
something that is separate to the outer covering? no
is it flat? yes
a manilla folder or similar? no
is it an office item? no
household? no
manufacturing? no
educational? no
does he own the item? yes
did he do any of the writing? yes
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a form that he was filling out?
Did he (begin to?) fill out the back before filling out the front? Was he supposed to do this? Or did this lead to some confusion or misunderstanding on his part?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 09:56 am:

Is this a form that he was filling out? no
Did he (begin to?) fill out the back before filling out the front? no Was he supposed to do this? no Or did this lead to some confusion or misunderstanding on his part? this isn't actually a question of confusion or misunderstanding. The idea is that in a particular set of circumstances, it would be necessary to turn over something on which he was writing.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because there wasn't enough room to write everything that he needed to write on the side that he was writing on?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:00 am:

Because there wasn't enough room to write everything that he needed to write on the side that he was writing on? no - there was plenty of room for everything that he wanted to write on the side he was writing on
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he writing on this item with the intention that someone else would read it later? Or was it more of a memo to himself? Did he subsequently send (or give?) the item to someone else? Did anyone else write anything by hand on the item? Before he had written on it? After?
Is it a greeting card?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:14 am:

Was he writing on this item with the intention that someone else would read it later? yes Or was it more of a memo to himself? no Did he subsequently send this one (or give?) the item to someone else? Did anyone else write anything by hand on the item? no Before he had written on it? After?
Is it a greeting card? it is indeed :)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not the one on my desk right now, is it?
Or is it the one from Alex?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:23 am:

It's not the one on my desk right now, is it? no
Or is it the one from Alex? no. It is, in fact, the card I sent my father a few days ago for his birthday.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That was my next guess. Really. :)

Was there anything unusual about this greeting card? Is it made of one pieces of paper, folded once? or folded twice? Does it open from right to left? or from bottom to top? Does any of this matter?

Did you write on the part where people ordinarily write (i.e., the inside right, or the inside bottom)? Did you write on any other part?
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there some novelty to the card?
was he checking out the price?
when he (you) turned it over...were you opening it or looking at the reverse of it?
did the card actually say pto?
and then maybe say pto again on the reverse?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:35 am:

That was my next guess. Really. We will credit you with a very fine guess, then. Really :)

Was there anything unusual about this greeting card? no Is it made of one pieces of paper well, it is made of only one piece of cardboard, folded once? this one or folded twice? Does it open from right to left? yes, or indeed from left to right :) or from bottom to top? no Does any of this matter? no, not really

Did you write on the part where people ordinarily write (i.e., the inside right this one , or the inside bottom)? Did you write on any other part? no, but...

By kerry hearne (Kerry) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:39 am:

was there some novelty to the card? no
was he checking out the price? no
when he (you) turned it over...were you opening it or looking at the reverse of it? this one
did the card actually say pto? no
and then maybe say pto again on the reverse? no, but this would have made an entertaining puzzle :)

And while I remember, you may want to have a look at this page:

http://www.art-sales-index.com/pages/Products/asi36_artist.html
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the context of the puzzle, should you have written on some other part of the card?
Do we need to know more about the message printed on the card?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:00 am:

In the context of the puzzle, should you have written on some other part of the card? yes, indeed
Do we need to know more about the message printed on the card? this is not easy to answer - it would help if you could rephrase it, perhaps
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know more about anything that was printed on the card before you started writing on it? If so, does this something include words? letters? numbers? pictures?
Was this, in fact, a birthday card? (as in, did the printed message say something about a birthday?) Specifically a birthday card for one's father? Specifically a birthday card for someone rather old?

In the context of the puzzle, should you have written on the front? the inside left? the back?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:16 am:

Do we need to know more about anything that was printed on the card before you started writing on it? yes, indeed If so, does this something include words? this one letters? and threfore this one numbers? no pictures? no
Was this, in fact, a birthday card? (as in, did the printed message say something about a birthday?) no - good question :) Specifically a birthday card for one's father? no - my father would disown me if I sent him anything so naff, and rightly so Specifically a birthday card for someone rather old? ditto, and even more rightly so

In the context of the puzzle, should you have written on the front? the inside left? the back? this one
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have just noticed that the card on my desk says "This card is blank inside" on the back. I'm not sure I have ever seen such a thing before, or maybe I have just never noticed. Was the same or similar statement printed on the back of the card you sent your father? Should you have crossed this out, or added a correction, because once you had written on the inside, it was no longer true?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:24 am:

I have just noticed that the card on my desk says "This card is blank inside" on the back. I'm not sure I have ever seen such a thing before, or maybe I have just never noticed. Was the same or similar statement printed on the back of the card you sent your father? Should you have crossed this out, or added a correction, because once you had written on the inside, it was no longer true? exactly so :) I guess this puzzle was not likely to last all that long in the presence of someone with a greeting card on her desk.

***** SPOILER *****

I bought a card for my father's birthday that was blank inside. After I'd written a message, I put the card in an envelope, and as I did so I noticed that on the back, the words "This card is blank on the inside" appeared.

Of course, this was no longer true. In the interests of strict veracity - something to be encouraged when sending good wishes to people - I should therefore have turned the card over when I had finished writing and inserted the word "not" between "is" and "blank".

Thanks everyone, and well done Buzzard :) I shall have to think of a new puzzle, I guess.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess this puzzle was not likely to last all that long in the presence of someone with a greeting card on her desk. Well, whose fault is that? :)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mine. Like everything else :(
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wow david! - great site - thanks so much - im sure that will probably do it for me...:):)
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

damn but youre good buzzard!!!!! :)

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