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Archive through February 20, 2005Lynne22 2-20-05  8:40 pm
Archive through February 25, 2005Martin Schwenk22 2-25-05  10:36 pm
Archive through February 28, 2005Martin Schwenk22 2-28-05  9:36 am
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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:36 am:

Is a piece of military hardware relevant that only one of them has (e.g. carriers)? nothing like this. He merely referred, in a somewhat indirect fashion, to one group of military men as if they were another group of miltary men.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he call the seamen soldiers?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 05:10 pm:

Did he call the seamen soldiers? indeed he did :) though not entirely directly...
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he singing about them? Or a line in a play?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this at the Royal Tournament?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Being drunken relevant?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 07:12 pm:

Was he singing about them? not at the time he called them soldiers, but... Or a line in a play? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 07:18 pm:

Was this at the Royal Tournament? no

By Haenlomal (Haenlomal) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:23 pm:

Being drunken relevant? no. Not even earlie in the morning :)
dryman (Dryman)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a separate time he called the soldiers seamen?
seminferous tubules relevant?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By dryman (Dryman) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:41 pm:


was there a separate time he called the soldiers seamen? no
seminferous tubules relevant? well, perhaps very peripherally indeed... but not in the sense you mean :)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tinker Tailor Soldier Sailor - was he counting pips on his plate, or pips on their epaulettes?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any low humor regarding the term "seamen" here?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:47 am:

Tinker Tailor Soldier Sailor - was he counting pips on his plate, or pips on their epaulettes? he was doing none of these. Recall that he was an actor, and a singer, engaged in a performance...

By Fred Z (Dref) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:53 am:

Any low humor regarding the term "seamen" here? when society has to resort to the lavatory for its humour, the writing is on the wall
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gilbert and Sullivan relevant?

Was the actor performing in a musical?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 3:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gaffe part of the performers schtick? Did he intend to do it (rather the way Jimmy Durante used to mangle words?)

Did he say something like "Here's a song for the soldiers in the audience,"? and then sing a song? And the song was a sailor song rather than a soldier song?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Fred Z (Dref) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 02:37 am:

Gilbert and Sullivan relevant? very much so :)

Was the actor performing in a musical? yes, for svv of "musical" - it was called an "operetta" in those days

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 03:35 am:

Was the gaffe part of the performers schtick? no Did he intend to do it (rather the way Jimmy Durante used to mangle words?) a man very much ahead of his time - now, we mangle them without intent. But nothing like this.

Did he say something like "Here's a song for the soldiers in the audience,"? no, but... and then sing a song? no And the song was a sailor song rather than a soldier song? not this kind of thing
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 4:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is their "H.M.S. Pinafore" what is relevant here?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Fred Z (Dref) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 04:14 am:

Is their "H.M.S. Pinafore" what is relevant here? exactly so :)

I can now tell you that this puzzle is a sequel to Buzzard's "A bubble in a baby's dream", in that the events of the puzzle occured during a staging of Gilbert and Sullivan's "HMS Pinafore".

You know also that Our Hero was an actor, and a singer, and that at some point, he appeared to have confused sailors (and not seamen - forget about the tubules, and shame on you for entertaining the idea in the first place) with soldiers.

Now then...
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My mind went totally blank and I actually couldn't remember the word 'sailors', I kept thinking 'able seaman' but knew I wasn't looking for a rank. Such is old age. Is there an unable seaman, and why able in the first instance?
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And while we're at it, why is it Masterchief and not Chiefmaster?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he include something from a different operetta? Was this part of an attempt to insert contemporary allusions into one of the songs?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 05:50 pm:

Did he include something from a different operetta? no Was this part of an attempt to insert contemporary allusions into one of the songs? And Australians at parties who are either stoned or pissed - I don't think they'd be missed :) But no, nothing like that.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he bobble a spoken line? or a line in one of his songs? More than one line in a song?

Was the gaffe one word? 2? 3? more?

Should we find out which part he was playing?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:19 pm:

Did he bobble a spoken line? he did not or a line in one of his songs? More than one line in a song? no. What he did was entirely unscripted.

Was the gaffe one word? 2? 3? more? the relevant part of the "gaffe" was precisely seven words long

Should we find out which part he was playing? He was playing the part of Sir Joseph Porter, KCB. This is of no help whatsoever, of course, otherwise I would not have told you :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he ad libbed and made the gaffe in the ad lib?

Was he simply trying to be funny? trying to cover an error made by another character? trying to cover an error made by the stage crew?

"He was playing the part of Sir Joseph Porter, KCB. This is of no help whatsoever, of course, otherwise I would not have told you " 8-P
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:02 am:

So he ad libbed and made the gaffe in the ad lib? no, not really. What he said was not intended to be "in character" at all.

Was he simply trying to be funny? trying to cover an error made by another character? trying to cover an error made by the stage crew? not anything like this
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 7:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"And for all you soldiers out there" ?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To rephrase the last question - were there sailors in the audience? Did he address them as soldiers?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:32 am:

"And for all you soldiers out there" ? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 07:21 am:

To rephrase the last question - were there sailors in the audience? not in the audience, no Did he address them as soldiers? but this is in the right forest
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What he said was unscripted and not in character, and he didn't bobble a line. He added a sentence? an aside to the audience? to the sailors of the chorus? Did he refer to sailors as soldiers, or did he say 'Army' when he should have said 'Navy'?

"He was playing the part of Sir Joseph Porter, KCB. This is of no help whatsoever, of course, otherwise I would not have told you." Maybe, maybe not. I've got a libretto, and I'm not afraid to use it... 8-)
Did the gaffe happen in the first act? the second? immediately prior to one of Sir Joseph's songs? immediately following? during one of the spoken exchanges between Sir Joseph and another character(s)?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 09:59 am:

What he said was unscripted and not in character, correct and he didn't bobble a line. also correct He added a sentence? yes an aside to the audience? well, not so much an "aside" - he was addressing the audience, the cast, and anyone else who cared to listen to the sailors of the chorus? Did he refer to sailors as soldiers, no, but... or did he say 'Army' when he should have said 'Navy'? he used neither of those terms

Maybe, maybe not. I've got a libretto, and I'm not afraid to use it... Well, it would certainly be a mind-improving exercise - but it will not help you with the puzzle in the least :)
Did the gaffe happen in the first act? the second? this one immediately prior to one of Sir Joseph's songs? and this one. But this does not matter. immediately following? during one of the spoken exchanges between Sir Joseph and another character(s)?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so was he what he said essentially a non sequiter?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:28 am:

Ok, so was he what he said essentially a non sequiter? or indeed a non sequitur :) What he said came as something of a shock to cast and audience alike...
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a disparaging comment? downright insulting?
if so, to soldiers? or sailors? or to someone/something else entirely? political in nature? scatological?

Something like "What do you expect from a soldier?" "Trust soldiers to think with their *****."?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:45 am:

Was it a disparaging comment? yes downright insulting? yesish
if so, to soldiers? or sailors? or to someone/something else entirely? it includes the term "soldiers", but it is not disparaging of soldiers per se political in nature? no scatological? yes

Something like "What do you expect from a soldier?" "Trust soldiers to think with their *****."? not like this - it is a common enough idiom in English, though it strikes me that it may not be so in American
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shall I spiol?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:15 am:

Shall I spiol? by all means :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Sod this for a game of soldiers."?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:21 am:

"Sod this for a game of soldiers."? well, close enough - for svv of "sod" :)

***** SPOILER *****

The Irish actor Alan Devlin was notorious for leaving the stage in mid-performance, simply because he had got fed up with what he was doing.

Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore was reaching its climax one evening at the Gaiety Theatre, Dublin, in 1987. But Devlin was disinclined to stay to the end, even though he was playing the part of Admiral Sir Joseph Porter at the time.

Announcing "**** this for a game of soldiers, I'm going home", he climbed through the orchesra pit and, shouting "Finish it yourselves" to the astounded cast, disappeared into the night.

Still dressed in the costume of an Admiral of Queen Victoria's navy, Devlin went straight to a nearby public house. Because he was still wired for sound, however, the final chorus was interspersed with the ringing tones of the great actor ordering a round of drinks - something Gilbert had unaccountably omitted from the libretto.

Of course, HMS Pinafore is not a game of soldiers at all, but a play about sailors. Devlin had, in military terms at any rate, got the wrong branch.

Well done Barbara, thanks all for playing :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I confess, I had to use an online dictionary of English slang to find it; I've never heard anyone use it in the US. Thank you, it was a good puzzle. And now, since it's nearly 6AM here, I'm off to sleep...

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