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Archive through March 04, 2005buzz visconti22 3-04-05  9:29 pm
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Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FA = False assumption
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My bad

For how long was Clyde impersonating... hours? days? weeks?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 3:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My bad It's ok. :)

For how long was Clyde impersonating... hours? days? weeks? Irrelevant, but for the record, it was about two weeks
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Clyde drink during a meeting? While dining? During the impersonation, was Brian alive? Held captive? Did he just happen not to be there?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Clyde drink during a meeting? No While dining? No During the impersonation, was Brian alive? Yes Held captive? No Did he just happen not to be there? Well, Brian most definitely was "not there", but I don't know if "just happen not to be there" would be the best explanation for his absence. It other words, explore a bit more.
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did some helpers of Clyde hold Brian up somewhere? Did Clyde know Brian wouldn't show up?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did some helpers of Clyde hold Brian up somewhere? Well, yes, for svv of "helpers" and "hold up" Did Clyde know Brian wouldn't show up? Yes
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where the "helpers" aware they were helping him? Was Clyde abroad?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where the "helpers" aware they were helping him? Yes Was Clyde abroad? Yes, and...
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Clyde on Brian's side in the war? Was he sent by Brian to impersonate him? if so: because Brian did something else in the meanwhile? because Brian considered the place where Clyde was sent too dangerous for himself?
Did Brian have changed the sides?
"Too late" because of something Brian did? because of something Clyde did? because of something Clyde arranged to do? because too much time had passed?
Was the place where Clyde was impersonating Brian: an embassy? a military unit? a ship?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Clyde on Brian's side in the war? Yes Was he sent by Brian to impersonate him? No, but it was done with Brian's full knowledge. if so: because Brian did something else in the meanwhile? Well, yes, but there's more to it than that. because Brian considered the place where Clyde was sent too dangerous for himself? No
Did Brian have changed the sides? No
"Too late" because of something Brian did? because of something Clyde did? because of something Clyde arranged to do? because too much time had passed? This is closest, though none of them are really all that close...
Was the place where Clyde was impersonating Brian: an embassy? A bit of the impersonation act was carried out in an embassy a military unit? a ship? No to the rest
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this during WW1? WW2? peacetime?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this during WW1? WW2? As a matter of fact, this one peacetime?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brian=Field Marshal Montgomery?

Was Clyde impersonating Brian to deceive spies? An dby the time one of the spies realized that Brian didn't drink, but that Clyde did, they had wasted a lot of time watching him and had lost track of where Brian actually was? was doing?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brian=Field Marshal Montgomery? YES!!!!! :)

Was Clyde impersonating Brian to deceive spies? YES!!! An dby the time one of the spies realized that Brian didn't drink, but that Clyde did, they had wasted a lot of time watching him and had lost track of where Brian actually was? Yes was doing? And so yes to this as well!

Looks like you know this story already....care to do the honours of finally putting this puzzle out of its misery? :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, actually, I don't know it. But Monty was the only WWII Britsh higher-than-General officer I could think of right offhand, and you'd said the impersonation wasn't because he didn't want to be somewhere, so I figured that it might be because he didn't want where he was to be known...

Anyway, I'd guess that it had something to do with the Africa campaign, possibly to do with lining up local assistance/collaborators/resistance?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, actually, I don't know it. But Monty was the only WWII Britsh higher-than-General officer I could think of right offhand, and you'd said the impersonation wasn't because he didn't want to be somewhere, so I figured that it might be because he didn't want where he was to be known... Be that as it may, you've help solved a crucial part of the mystery. While technically speaking, you don't need to discover Monty's name, doing so does help fill in the background story.

I guess I will add here that there is enough information gleaned that a google search will blow this puzzle wide open. Needless to say, that's cheating, so please don't do that. :)


Anyway, I'd guess that it had something to do with the Africa campaign Yes, but not quite in the way you might think, possibly to do with lining up local assistance/collaborators/resistance? Nothing like this
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unfortunately, my WWII knowlege is spotty (at best!)

This is a clumsy question, but: Was it more important that Monty be seen to be where he wasn't really; or that he not be noticed at where he really was?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unfortunately, my WWII knowlege is spotty (at best!) :( That's fine. While knowledge of WWII events would of course be an asset, it is not necessary solve this puzzle. :)

This is a clumsy question, but: Was it more important that Monty be seen to be where he wasn't really; or that he not be noticed at where he really was? Both were important, but the emphasis was definitely on the first one rather than the second one.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was their a movie about this incident? It seems somewhat familar...
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was their a movie about this incident? It seems somewhat familar... Irrelevant, but as a matter of fact, yes. I'm kinda surprised you know about it, since as far as I know, the movie didn't do all that well, and Montgomery himself was critical of it.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't be. I'm the master of the arcane and obscure. ;)

I don't remember much of it, though.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think there was a film called "I Was Monty's Double". But I am not sure whether it matters.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dref

Don't be. I'm the master of the arcane and obscure. ;)

I don't remember much of it, though.

Good, then perhaps this puzzle is not quite $poiled for you yet...

Woubit

I think there was a film called "I Was Monty's Double". But I am not sure whether it matters.

Unfortunately for you, this puzzle is $poiled, for that is indeed the movie in question, and puzzle more or less describes the events of that movie. But maybe you can contribute a weightless poem to this puzzle? :) We haven't had those for a while now....
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, that's where the little tiny lightbulb came from that made me ask if it was Monty--I remember seeing the book that that movie was based on (for svv of 'based') on an optional reading list in high school. I didn't read it, or see the film, though, so I will continue to plug away...

So the impersonation was for the purpose of misdirection? of where an attack was going to happen? of troop placement? Monty needed to be seen in the wrong place?

Was Not-Monty making sure that he was being seen in Africa? Sardinia/Corsica/Sicily? England? Northern France? Southern France?

At the time that Not-Monty was busy being seen, where was Real-Monty? Africa? Sardinia/Corsica/Sicily? England? Northern France? Southern France? The US?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As requested:

Higgledy piggledy
Marshal Montgomery,
Britain's remarkable
Tactical brain,
Ordered some food in a
Sino-French restaurant -
Chicken with noodles, or
Coq a la mein.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, that's where the little tiny lightbulb came from that made me ask if it was Monty--I remember seeing the book that that movie was based on (for svv of 'based') on an optional reading list in high school. I didn't read it, or see the film, though, so I will continue to plug away...

So the impersonation was for the purpose of misdirection? Yes of where an attack was going to happen? Yes of troop placement? Yes'ish Monty needed to be seen in the wrong place? YES -- good question!

Was Not-Monty making sure that he was being seen in Africa? Mostly here Sardinia/Corsica/Sicily? England? Northern France? Southern France?

At the time that Not-Monty was busy being seen, where was Real-Monty? Africa? Sardinia/Corsica/Sicily? England? Here, I think. Northern France? Southern France? The US?

And many thanks to woubit for the delightfully weightless poem.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 3:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WWII attacks that weren't around Africa. Boy, that really narrows the field, doesn't it? . I'm reduced to the scattershot approach now, I'm afraid...

The attack in question:
St Lo?
Telemark?
Ploesti?
Navarrone?
Normandy?
The Bulge?
the liberation of Paris?
of Rome?
Whatever it was called that involved "A Bridge Too Far"-- the bridge at Arnhem?

Can you tell I learned more WWII history from movies and novels/fictionalized accounts than I did from history books?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WWII attacks that weren't around Africa. Boy, that really narrows the field, doesn't it? :(. I'm reduced to the scattershot approach now, I'm afraid... Worry not, for help, as they say, is on the way...

The attack in question:
St Lo?
Telemark?
Ploesti?
Navarrone?
Normandy? This one
The Bulge?
the liberation of Paris?
of Rome?
Whatever it was called that involved "A Bridge Too Far"-- the bridge at Arnhem? Not this, but what was "involved" in the movie "A Bridge Too Far" was actually a dramatization of Operation Market Garden, and the key point of that operation was indeed the bridge in Arnhem. So you did recall correctly, for whatever that's worth. :)

Can you tell I learned more WWII history from movies and novels/fictionalized accounts than I did from history books? You wouldn't be the only one. :) I used to know a lot about military history, but ever since working life got too busy, I've let it slide. I must have forgotten a lot of stuff I used to know by now. :(
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you did recall correctly, for whatever that's worth. Cool! I'll keep that brain cell, then. All I really remember about the movie was that it was the one of those all-star cast jobbies, and that Robert Redford didn't have nearly enought to do in it. I think he died, too.

Normandy, eh? That would be D-Day (Operation Overlord?) then? I can see why the Allied Command would want it to seem that Monty was busy in Africa while that was in the planning stages.

Anything else to discover?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you did recall correctly, for whatever that's worth. :) Cool! I'll keep that brain cell, then. All I really remember about the movie was that it was the one of those all-star cast jobbies, and that Robert Redford didn't have nearly enought to do in it. I think he died, too. :(

Normandy, eh? Yep That would be D-Day (Operation Overlord?) then? Yep I can see why the Allied Command would want it to seem that Monty was busy in Africa while that was in the planning stages.

Anything else to discover? You know what? This is actually pretty much over, so here comes the....

*************** SPOILER ****************

This article here says it better than I can.

While of course this publication stated that Lieutenant M.E. Clifton-James did not go on a 5 weeks drinking binge, there are persistant rumours that it did happen. That's why I wrote in the beginning that this was "supposedly a true story, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than slightly embellished."

Assuming that the drinking binge in fact did happen, then the German spies of course realized something was wrong when they saw him drinking. But by then, it was too late for them -- thousands of German troops have already been deployed to southern France or are in the process of being re-deployed to southern France. Normandy, of course, is in Northern France.

Thus it was that when the Allies bore down on Normandy on June 6th, 1944, only a fraction of the German army was there. Allied casualities would no doubt be much higher if not for the ruse carried out by Lieutenant James.

Thanks to all who participated, and a handy disguise to Rabrab for finishing it off. :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That is a striking resemblance! And a neat puzzle, too.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. :)

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