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Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it particularly important why Z attacked X?
Or is it simply because they were at war?
Did the information changed relate at all to Z?
Did the information changed relate to the political group in X?

Did the political group:
make decisions?
conduct exchanges (of money, supplies, etc.)?
deal with any particular type of item?
hold a relevant religious viewpoint?
hold a relevant political viewpoint (e.g. communism, etc.)?

Is the type of government of either X or Z relevant?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it particularly important why Z attacked X? not really
Or is it simply because they were at war? yes
Did the information changed relate at all to Z? no
Did the information changed relate to the political group in X? yes

Did the political group:
make decisions? yes
conduct exchanges (of money, supplies, etc.)? probably
deal with any particular type of item? not really
hold a relevant religious viewpoint? not necessarily
hold a relevant political viewpoint (e.g. communism, etc.)? yes

Is the type of government of either X or Z relevant? YES
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is X's government relevant?
Is Z's government relevant?
Is X or Z:
Communist?
Oligarchy?
Dictatorship?
Democracy?
Monarchy?
Some other type?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is X's government relevant? yes
Is Z's government relevant? no
Is X:
Communist?
Oligarchy?
Dictatorship?
Democracy? this
Monarchy?
Some other type?
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the political group of a different political viewpoint than X?
If so, which one (from list above)?
Although I've asked this question before, I can't remember the answer: Is the political organization part of the official government of X?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the political group of a different political viewpoint than X? no
If so, which one (from list above)?
Although I've asked this question before, I can't remember the answer: Is the political organization part of the official government of X? yes, with a slight ish
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a state or city government?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a state or city government? it's the government of the country
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The political group is part of the government of the country?
Do the people in the group have something special in common (other than the group itself)?
Does the group deal at all with international affairs?
With the general public?
Is the public's opinion of the group changed by the virus?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The political group is part of the government of the country? yes, with a slight ish
Do the people in the group have something special in common (other than the group itself)? yes, the above mentioned political viewpoint
Does the group deal at all with international affairs? yes
With the general public? yes
Is the public's opinion of the group changed by the virus? noish
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With international affairs to Z?
Is it a political reporting organization?
Conspiracy theorists?
CIA or some equivalent organization?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With international affairs to Z? yes, among other things
Is it a political reporting organization? no
Conspiracy theorists? no
CIA or some equivalent organization? no
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't help but wish there was someone else working this puzzle with me. I'm not getting too far. I shall resolve to uncover some important information on this set of questions:

At the time at which X declares war on Z, do they feel threatened by Z?
Do they feel as if they are acting in retaliation against Z?
Does most of the public agree in general with the decision to go to war?
Did the organization itself influence the decision to go to war?
Did the virus change information regarding the previous actions of the political group (P)?
One or more members of P?
Are the members of P elected?
Appointed?
Hired?
Joined solely by their own choice?
Does P have a specific future goal?
Or just a general task?
Before the virus, is X on a friendly relation with Z?
A somewhat hostile relation?
A neutral relation?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't help but wish there was someone else working this puzzle with me. Please, everyone, feel free to join in

At the time at which X declares war on Z, do they feel threatened by Z? possibly
Do they feel as if they are acting in retaliation against Z? no
Does most of the public agree in general with the decision to go to war? probably not most
Did the organization itself influence the decision to go to war? NO
Did the virus change information regarding the previous actions of the political group (P)? no
(regarding) One or more members of P? yes
(regarding the previous actions of) One or more members of P? no
Are the members of P elected?
Appointed?
Hired?
Joined solely by their own choice?
some of each but may mislead
Does P have a specific future goal?
Or just a general task? more like this
Before the virus, is X on a friendly relation with Z?
A somewhat hostile relation? this
A neutral relation? or possibly this
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*minor blooper*
the actual members wouldn't be hired
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, we know that X declared war on Z?
Did the President of this democracy declare war on Z?
Some general council of war?
Is P a collection of smaller political groups?
Is P the whole government of the country?
Does the kid have something against democracy?
Did the virus cause something to happen OTHER than simply a change of information (i.e. did it directly affect the operations of some computer-controlled operation)?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, we know that X declared war on Z? right
Did the President of this democracy declare war on Z? possibly
Some general council of war? or possibly this
Is P a collection of smaller political groups? not really
Is P the whole government of the country? no
Does the kid have something against democracy? no, but OTRT
Did the virus cause something to happen OTHER than simply a change of information (i.e. did it directly affect the operations of some computer-controlled operation)? no, other than the consequences of the change of information
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the kid have something against a certain type of government?
The government of Z?
Is the kid displeased with P?
Or displeased with one or more specific members of P?
Does he wish to eradicate P?
Or eradicate one or more of the members of P?
Does he slander P (via virus)?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the kid have something against a certain type of government? noish
The government of Z? probably but not necessarily
Is the kid displeased with P? yes
Or displeased with one or more specific members of P? this too
Does he wish to eradicate P? no
Or eradicate one or more of the members of P? no
Does he slander P (via virus)? no
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the general public see this change of information:
On their computers?
On television?
On the internet?
On written word (newspaper, book, etc.)?

Is the kid displeased with past actions of P?
Current actions of P?
Future plans of P?

We established that the kid wishes to "hurt" P?
By preventing them from doing something?
By hurting their reputation?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the general public see this change of information: part of it
On their computers?
On television?
On the internet?
On written word (newspaper, book, etc.)?
probably all of these, but mostly television and newspapers

Is the kid displeased with past actions of P? yes
Current actions of P? yes
Future plans of P? yes

We established that the kid wishes to "hurt" P? yes
By preventing them from doing something? yes
By hurting their reputation? irrel
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I chime in when i can, but between my logging on every day, you've posted 20 posts that I have to read before I can help out :).

Is the kid Idealistic, and is not necessarily displeased with P as such, but all oragnisations like P?

Is Ps involvement with the Government financial?

now that we have opened up other organisations within a country I can increase my list...
is P:
A Bank;
A Firm;
A chain/franchise:
- Supermarket;
- Fast Food;
- Clothing;
A Manufacturer:
- Car;
- Computer;
- Clothing;
- Food;
- Furniture;
Media:
- Newspaper;
- Magazine;
- Television;
- Radio;
Entertainment:
- Film;
- Television;
- Publisher;
- Recording Company;
Industrial:
- Mining:
- Metalic ore;
- Oil;
- Other Fuels;
- Ground Water;
- Electricity;
- Waste disposal;
- Water;
- Food (Farming};
Mass Transit:
- Air;
- Sea;
- Taxi;
- Bus;
- Train;
- Subway;
- Monorail;
A dot.com;
?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I chime in when i can, but between my logging on every day, you've posted 20 posts that I have to read before I can help out :). sorry :(

Is the kid Idealistic, yes and is not necessarily displeased with P as such, but all oragnisations like P? no, he is specifically displeased with P

Is Ps involvement with the Government financial? no

now that we have opened up other organisations within a country I can increase my list...
is P:
A Bank;
A Firm;
A chain/franchise:
- Supermarket;
- Fast Food;
- Clothing;
A Manufacturer:
- Car;
- Computer;
- Clothing;
- Food;
- Furniture;
Media:
- Newspaper;
- Magazine;
- Television;
- Radio;
Entertainment:
- Film;
- Television;
- Publisher;
- Recording Company;
Industrial:
- Mining:
- Metalic ore;
- Oil;
- Other Fuels;
- Ground Water;
- Electricity;
- Waste disposal;
- Water;
- Food (Farming};
Mass Transit:
- Air;
- Sea;
- Taxi;
- Bus;
- Train;
- Subway;
- Monorail;
A dot.com;
? none of these - sorry
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he's basically displeased with a part of the job description of P?
If P didn't have any dealings with Z, would the kid still have been displeased with P?
Is P more domestic than international, as far as dealings go?
Or vice-versa?
Or pretty much equal in both aspects?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** RECAP ***

A student in a democratic country, X, created a computer virus. The virus changed words, directly, and numbers, indirectly, about one or more members of a political organization P in X, on some computers belonging to supporters of P among the general population of X. The new information was incorrect but was assumed to be correct. This indirectly caused X to declare war on another country, Z. During this war the student became an innocent victim of a biological weapon which Z's military dropped on his city.

Nobody was supposed to find the virus, and in fact nobody did. However, some particular person or organization saw the changed information, and also the general public saw part of it on television and in newspapers.

His motivation was political, and he intended to benefit X and some person or organization within X, and hurt P by preventing them from doing something. P is yesishly part of X's government but is not an advisory council, intelligence agency, political reporting organization, group of conspiracy theorists or anything with a war-related purpose. It makes decisions and holds a relevant political viewpoint. It deals with international affairs and the general public. He believed it had previously hurt or hindered X and might do again. It did not influence the decision to go to war.

To solve:
What exactly did the virus do? and how did this cause war to be declared?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he's basically displeased with a part of the job description of P? so to speak, yes
If P didn't have any dealings with Z, would the kid still have been displeased with P? yes
Is P more domestic than international, as far as dealings go?
Or vice-versa?
Or pretty much equal in both aspects? this is closest
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The recaps are always helpful.

The virus changed words, directly, and numbers, indirectly:
Were the numbers a count of something (e.g. The number of members within P?)
A date?
A time?
Some form of code (computer binary, encrypted messages, etc.)?
Coordinates?
Part of a mathematical equation?
Something else?

and some person or organization within X:
Is it a person?
An organization?
Specific one relevant?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The recaps are always helpful.

The virus changed words, directly, and numbers, indirectly:
Were the numbers a count of something YES (e.g. The number of members within P?) but not this
A date?
A time?
Some form of code (computer binary, encrypted messages, etc.)?
Coordinates?
Part of a mathematical equation?
Something else?
no to rest

and some person or organization within X:
Is it a person?
An organization? this
Specific one relevant? you mean one that really exists? then no
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the virus change election results? poll results? lead to a change in the political atmosphere in county X?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the virus change election results? YES! :)

That's pretty much it... would you like to put it all together?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure that I've got it all, but:

Group P of Country X is the Parliament/Senate/ruling body of Country X ?

The kid didn't approve of the direction that they were going?

The kid's virus jiggered election results (by changing the programming of the voting machines? so that the voters weren't voting for who they thought they were?)

The resultant change in the government led to Group P of X declaring war on country Z, which led to the bombing of the kid's home town?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure that I've got it all, but: pretty much

Group P of Country X is the Parliament/Senate/ruling body of Country X ? not exactly... group P is a political party which is in government to begin with

The kid didn't approve of the direction that they were going? right

The kid's virus jiggered election results (by changing the programming of the voting machines? so that the voters weren't voting for who they thought they were?) exactly right

The resultant change in the government led to Group P no, but... of X declaring war on country Z, which led to the bombing of the kid's home town? right
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** SPOILER ***

A teenager created a computer virus on a computer in his school. The virus infected many computers in his country, affecting electronic voting software, and changed the result of an election. The newly not-exactly-elected government invaded another country, which retaliated with biological weapons. One of these happened to strike the neighbourhood of the school, killing thousands of people, including the teenager.


Congratulations Rabrab, and many thanks to everyone who played, especially Paradox for sticking with it for so long...
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, the answer's a lot simpler than I would have thought, yet also a lot more elegant. Great puzzle. I seem to have found it pretty difficult!
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, you laid all the groundwork, Paradox -- all I did was pick up the ends of all the threads after you untangled them. I didn't intend to swoop it on you.
And I agree, very elegant, Wunderland.
Brian Hobbs (Paradox)
Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course you didn't swoop in on me, Rabrab. I was the one who was hoping for someone to help me solve it, after all.

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