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Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Title is of complete irrelevance :P

A man walks into a jewelry store intent on buying a ring. He is served by a consultant who helps him select an elegant band in within his price range. The man pays the correct amount for the ring, thanks the consultant for their good service, and leaves the shop. Halfway down the street, the man suddenly stops. He then races into the store and savagely assaults the consultant. Why?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Wiz!

Did he suddenly recognize the ring as having been stolen from him earlier on?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 11:33 pm:

Hi Wiz! Hi Lynne! Good to see the big names in lateral puzzling are still around. I admire your lateral fortitude.

Did he suddenly recognize the ring as having been stolen from him earlier on? No
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we solve this puzzle with only the given information?

Is the man a 'professional' criminal? Did he know the consultant before entering the shop for that first time?

When he stopped: did he realise something? Did he realise that he knew the consultant?

Is there a relevant backstory to this event?

Will the man go to jail for this assault?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 01:00 am:

Can we solve this puzzle with only the given information? No

Is the man a 'professional' criminal? no Did he know the consultant before entering the shop for that first time? no

When he stopped: did he realise something? yope Did he realise that he knew the consultant? no

Is there a relevant backstory to this event? no

Will the man go to jail for this assault? yes
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something faulty about the sale? Did the man leave with the ring he paid for? Was the man wearing the ring when he left?

(To clarify: is this a ring which one wears on his/her finger?)

Are these the correct and full sequence of events:

1) Man enters the store. Man and consultant have never met before this moment. ?

2) Man chooses ring, perhaps with guidance by consultant. ?

3) Man pays for ring. ?

4) Man leaves the store. ?

5) Man starts down the street. ?

6) Man yopeishly realises something, and so stops. ?

7) Man races back to the store and beats the living daylights out of the consultant. ?

If I were an obsever to these events, would I know why the man beat the consultant up? Am I likely to believe that the man was just in beating the consultant up?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he seen the ring before?
Did he know beforehand that there was a possibility he might decide to beat up the consultant?
Had the consultant actually wronged him in any way?
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the consultant know why the man was beating him up? When the man originally left the store, was the consultant in fact relieved that the man hadn't done exactly that?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the ring purchased for the man? purchased for someone else?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 01:17 am:

Was there something faulty about the sale? no Did the man leave with the ring he paid for? irrelevant Was the man wearing the ring when he left? irrelevant

(To clarify: is this a ring which one wears on his/her finger?) yes

Are these the correct and full sequence of events:

1) Man enters the store. Man and consultant have never met before this moment. ? correct so far

2) Man chooses ring, perhaps with guidance by consultant. ? correct, puzzle statement says consultant helps him

3) Man pays for ring. ? yes

4) Man leaves the store. ? yes

5) Man starts down the street. ? yes

6) Man yopeishly realises something, and so stops. ? yes

7) Man races back to the store and beats the living daylights out of the consultant. ? yes

If I were an obsever to these events, would I know why the man beat the consultant up? no Am I likely to believe that the man was just in beating the consultant up? NO

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 01:23 am:

Had he seen the ring before? no
Did he know beforehand that there was a possibility he might decide to beat up the consultant? no
Had the consultant actually wronged him in any way? NO

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 01:24 am:

Did the consultant know why the man was beating him up? no When the man originally left the store, was the consultant in fact relieved that the man hadn't done exactly that? no

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 02:00 am:

Was the ring purchased for the man? irrelevant purchased for someone else? same
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something happen after he left the store (before he stopped)?
Did he see something? hear something?
Did someone say something? do something?
Did something happen to the ring?
Did something happen in the store?
Did he mistakenly believe that the consultant had wronged him? was this a reasonable mistake? or a stupid one?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 01:46 am:

Did something happen after he left the store (before he stopped)? yes
Did he see something? yes hear something? no
Did someone say something? do something? no to both
Did something happen to the ring? no
Did something happen in the store? no
Did he mistakenly believe that the consultant had wronged him? no was this a reasonable mistake? or a stupid one? n/a
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was what he saw:
a person?
a sign?
an ad?
someone else wearing the exact same ring? (Had the consultant asssured him that it was unique and a one-of-a-kind design?

Did he beat the consultant because of something that he realized about the ring? something that he realized about the way the consultant had treated him?

Would another person reasonably return to the store and confront the consultant under the same circumstances? attack the consultant? return to the store and complain about the consultant to the owner/manager? shrug and keep walking? laugh?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 03:43 am:

was what he saw:
a person? no
a sign? no
an ad? no
someone else wearing the exact same ring? (Had the consultant asssured him that it was unique and a one-of-a-kind design? no to both

Did he beat the consultant because of something that he realized about the ring? something that he realized about the way the consultant had treated him? no to both

Would another person reasonably return to the store and confront the consultant under the same circumstances? no attack the consultant? no return to the store and complain about the consultant to the owner/manager? no shrug and keep walking? no laugh? YES
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oooo-kay. So he's got a bad temper, and no sense of humor.

What he saw:
a vehicle?
a person?
an item?

something on the sidewalk?
on the street?
on a building?
in a building? (say, in a shop window?)
on a vehicle?
in a vehicle?
on a pushcart?
on a person?
on a newspaper or magazine?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:52 am:

Oooo-kay. So he's got a bad temper, and no sense of humor. Now you're getting it :)

What he saw:
a vehicle?
a person?
an item? <-- This 'un

something on the sidewalk? no
on the street? Going by the broadest possible definition of 'on the street', yes
on a building? no
in a building? (say, in a shop window?) no
on a vehicle? no
in a vehicle? no
on a pushcart? no
on a person? yes
on a newspaper or magazine? no
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 5:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Insomnia can be a wonderful thing.

On a person, OK.
Was it a piece of clothing?
a coat?
pants?
skirt?
blouse/shirt?
vest?
tie?
jacket?
a hat?
a piece of jewelry?
a t-shirt?
shoes?
a sandwich board?
an accessory (e.g. scarf, purse, briefcase, belt?)
a piece of electronic stuff (e.g. an iPod, a walkman, cellphone, pager, headphones, a hearing aid?)
a costume other than street clothes?

Did it have a word? or words? on it?
a logo?

Was it the item itself that made him mad at the consultant? Would he have assaulted someone else if he hadn't just been at the jewelers?

Or did seeing the item make him believe something about the consultant?
about the consultant's ethics? honesty?
did he think that the consultant had insulted him?
cheated him?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 05:47 am:

Insomnia can be a wonderful thing. yope :P

On a person, OK.
Was it a piece of clothing? no
a coat?
pants?
skirt?
blouse/shirt?
vest?
tie?
jacket?
a hat?
a piece of jewelry?
a t-shirt?
shoes? Not applicable
a sandwich board? no
an accessory (e.g. scarf, purse, briefcase, belt?)
a piece of electronic stuff (e.g. an iPod, a walkman, cellphone, pager, headphones, a hearing aid?)
a costume other than street clothes? no to all

Did it have a word? or words? <-- this 'un on it?
a logo?

Was it the item itself that made him mad at the consultant? yes Would he have assaulted someone else if he hadn't just been at the jewelers? no

Or did seeing the item make him believe something about the consultant? YES
about the consultant's ethics? honesty? no to either
did he think that the consultant had insulted him?
cheated him? no to both
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something with words on it, but not clothing. Hmmm.

shoes aren't applicable -- was the person he saw barefoot? if so, is that relevant?
a tattoo?

something attached to? or part of? the person?
or something that they were carrying? dragging? leading? pushing? handing out?

a book?
flyers?
a cup? or bag? from a restaurant?
a shopping bag?
a package?
a bottle? or can?
cigarettes? or a cigarette lighter? or cigarette case? some other tobacco product?
a food item?

What he believed about the consultant: did it concern
his intentions while helping the man?
his personal beliefs?
his ethnicity?
his religion?

If the man had been helped by a different consultant, would he have jumped to the same conclusion about that consultant upon seeing the item?

Is the man stupid as well as short-tempered and humorless?
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man racist? against the consultant's religion/race/colour/nationality? So that where others would laugh, he becomes angry?
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I don't believe this has been asked: Is the consultant male? female? relevant?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 06:49 am:

Something with words on it, but not clothing. Hmmm. Ah, but this is the world of lateral puzzles, where things other than clothing have words on them and nothing is the way it see-eems...

shoes aren't applicable -- was the person he saw barefoot? if so, is that relevant?
a tattoo? no to either

something attached to? or part of? the person?
or something that they were carrying? <--yes dragging? leading? pushing? handing out?

a book?
flyers?
a cup? or bag? from a restaurant?
a shopping bag?
a package?
a bottle? or can?
cigarettes? or a cigarette lighter? or cigarette case? some other tobacco product?
a food item? no to all of these

What he believed about the consultant: did it concern
his intentions while helping the man?
his personal beliefs? yesish
his ethnicity?
his religion? no to others

If the man had been helped by a different consultant, would he have jumped to the same conclusion about that consultant upon seeing the item? NO!

Is the man stupid as well as short-tempered and humorless? YES

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 01:19 pm:

Is the man racist? no... against the consultant's religion/race/colour/nationality? no So that where others would laugh, he becomes angry? yes
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A flag?
a banner?
a musical instrument?
a placard?
a painting? print? photo? framed poster?
a suitcase? duffle? backpack? rucksack?

Dit the thing only have words on it? Were there pictures (or a picture?) as well? Were there numbers? (or a number?) as well? Were there any other design elements (curliques? a border? squigggles of some sort? a geometric pattern? an abstract pattern?)

Were the words a label? a slogan? a company name?
a person's name? Did the words form a full sentence?

Was it the words alone that connected the thing to the consultant in the man's mind? or would the thing have done so even if it didn't have the words? would the same words on some? any? other thing have had the same results?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man prejudiced? against people like the consultant? because of gender? sexuality? politics?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 06:02 pm:

A flag?
a banner?
a musical instrument?
a placard?
a painting? print? photo? framed poster?
a suitcase? duffle? backpack? rucksack? no to all of these

Dit the thing only have words on it? no Were there pictures (or a picture?) as well? no Were there numbers? (or a number?) as well? Were there any other design elements (curliques? a border? squigggles of some sort? a geometric pattern? an abstract pattern?) no to these

Were the words a label? a slogan? a company name?
a person's name? <-- this one Did the words form a full sentence? yes

Was it the words alone that connected the thing to the consultant in the man's mind? yes or would the thing have done so even if it didn't have the words? no would the same words on some? any? other thing have had the same results? given the character of the man in question, most likely yes

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 06:14 pm:

Was the man prejudiced? yes against people like the consultant? yes because of gender? sexuality? <-- this one politics?
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just noticed you missed this out, but now I suppose the answer is pretty much known:

Oh, I don't believe this has been asked: Is the consultant male? female? relevant?

And I thought I asked if he was racist, and you said no?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hm.

The person carrying the thing he saw was in fact the man himself?
The item was the receipt for the sale of the ring?
It had the consultant's name and phone number on it?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 01:49 pm:

I just noticed you missed this out, but now I suppose the answer is pretty much known:

Oh, I don't believe this has been asked: Is the consultant male? female? relevant? female, relevant

And I thought I asked if he was racist, and you said no? I did, and stand by that

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 02:40 pm:

Hm.

The person carrying the thing he saw was in fact the man himself? yes
The item was the receipt for the sale of the ring? yes
It had the consultant's name yes and phone number no on it?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man know that the consultant was female before reading the name? after reading it?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he feel that the consultant's name was somehow "inappropriate" for a woman?

Was he ok with the fact that the consultant was a woman up until he saw her name?

Was her name even what set him off? Is the rest of the sentence relevant?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 03:13 am:

Did the man know that the consultant was female before reading the name? yes after reading it?

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 03:32 am:

Did he feel that the consultant's name was somehow "inappropriate" for a woman? no

Was he ok with the fact that the consultant was a woman up until he saw her name? he was always ok with the fact the consultant was a woman

Was her name even what set him off? YES Is the rest of the sentence relevant? yes, for the sake of context
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the consultant share her name with the man? with someone he knew? Was it her first name that is relevant? Did he find her name offensive? Was her name mis-spelled on the receipt?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 5:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he even realize that it was her name? or did he think that she had written some comment on the reciept? an insult? a slur? an obscenity?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 6:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 04:54 am:

Did the consultant share her name with the man? with someone he knew? neither Was it her first name that is relevant? yes Did he find her name offensive? YOPE Was her name mis-spelled on the receipt? no

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 05:55 am:

Did he even realize that it was her name? NO! or did he think that she had written some comment on the reciept? no an insult? a slur? an obscenity? no to these
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the receipt have a message on it like:-
"You were served by ..... today"?
or
"...... served you today"?
Does the jewellery store have a relevant name?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 10:47 am:

Did the receipt have a message on it like:-
"You were served by ..... today"?
or
"...... served you today"? YES - but the wording is relevantly different
Does the jewellery store have a relevant name? no
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does her first name begin with 'A'? i.e. "You have just been served by A. Moron"
Do we need to establish the exact wording/phrase on the receipt?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her name "Gay" or something similar?
so the receipt said "Your server today was Gay"?
Steve Wort (Wizardofnz)
Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 05:41 pm:

Is her name "Gay" yes or something similar?
so the receipt said "Your server today was Gay"? YES! Close enough for a

********** SPOILER **********

The man was a violent homophobic who was none too bright. Halfway down the street, he looked at his receipt, which said 'Your consultant was Gay' referring of course to the consultant's name. However, the man took that to be an indication of the consultant's sexual preference and could not suppress his violent urges


Originally, this puzzle was going to be something along the lines of 'A man is walking down a street looking at a receipt. Suddenly, he falls down laughing'. I decided, however, that as this is a lateral puzzle, it should be as violent and obscure as possible.

Thank you for playing.

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