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Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for those soothing words, David :)

Did the turkeys save the lives of these people by giving them some kind of warning? No by providing them with food? Well - as you already know, they were eaten. But that was not the primary goal
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

English manhandles foreign words that it borrows shamefully. American is even worse. We even manhandle English and leave it bruised and bleeding sometimes.

Was the turkeys' primary purpose to provide feathers? down?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You could never imagine how we manage to torture some English words in Norwegian...

Was the turkeys' primary purpose to provide feathers? no down? no
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Prince - royal Haakon! (Did you know I spoke
Norwegian?) Er de sig af det? Jeg er.
You may be happy - though I doubt it, Haak -
But Norway has a soul of sheer despair.


G K Chesterton, Ballade of Souls


English manhandles foreign words

Personhandles, surely?


Were these turkeys supposed to be there? Or was it mere happenstance that they were there?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Prince - royal Haakon! (Did you know I spoke
Norwegian?) Er de sig af det? Jeg er.
You may be happy - though I doubt it, Haak -
But Norway has a soul of sheer despair.

G K Chesterton, Ballade of Souls

Chesterton, all right.... never heard of that poet before... I might have missed out something there, probably... though his quotes seem more like Danish, somehow....

English manhandles foreign words

Personhandles, surely?

Were these turkeys supposed to be there? Yes Or was it mere happenstance that they were there? No, it was surely planned
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 4:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chesterton's fabulous! He wrote a little of everything, not just poetry.

This could be a nitpick, but were the turkeys there to be fattened for later eating?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This could be a nitpick, but were the turkeys there to be fattened for later eating? No

Remember,this is a lateral puzzle. I propose another approach to it, asking 'how' and 'why' type questions, rather than 'what'. Maybe even some 'where' questions might help.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'll take your advice.

Group A was a single flock of turkeys, numbering about 150? owned by a single person? or was it a group of smaller flocks, owned by several persons?

Did the turkeys belong to a person or persons who were included in group B; the 1500 people who were saved? Did they belong to a person or persons connected with, but not in Group B? a person or persons whose only connection to Group B is that the group ate their turkeys?

Going to change directions here...
Group C (the group of birds that didn't aid the humans) are they also turkeys?
if not, are they wild birds? If yes; songbirds? waterbirds? seabirds? do they eat insects? seeds? meat? fish? nectar?
are they domestic birds?
If yes, chickens? ducks? geese? pigeons? pet birds?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'll take your advice.

Group A was a single flock of turkeys don´t know - my guess is noish, numbering about 150? yes owned by a single person? Maybe, maybe not. Not important or was it a group of smaller flocks probably, owned by several persons? possibly

Did the turkeys belong to a person or persons who were included in group; the 1500 people who were saved? no Did they belong to a person or persons connected with, but not in Group B? yes a person or persons whose only connection to Group B is that the group ate their turkeys? No - good questions

Going to change directions here...
Group C (the group of birds that didn't aid the humans) are they also turkeys? yes
if not, are they wild birds? If yes; songbirds? waterbirds? seabirds? do they eat insects? seeds? meat? fish? nectar?
are they domestic birds?
If yes, chickens? ducks? geese? pigeons? pet birds?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we've got two flocks of turkeys, one of which aided a group of humans, and incidentally were killed and eaten but that fact that they provided food is not the way that they aided the humans; and one of which didn't aid the humans and weren't necessarily eaten?

Is that right?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we've got two flocks of turkeys, one of which aided a group of humans, and incidentally were killed and eaten but that fact that they provided food is not the way that they aided the humans; and one of which didn't aid the humans and weren't necessarily eaten?

Is that right? absolutely so - or let us say; that they provided food was not the primary way they aided the humans
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

mY brAnE hErtz...

Did their very presence aid the humans?

Was their aid something that the turkeys themselves did? That the endangered humans did because the turkeys were there? That some other group(?) of humans did because the turkeys were there?

You said that this was a true story--would it have worked out the same way if it had been flocks of geese rather than turkeys involved? How about pigeons?

I have abso-tively no idea where I'm going with this line of questions, by the way...
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 6:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

mY brAnE hErtz... Mine sometimes too :)

Did their very presence aid the humans? Yes

Was their aid something that the turkeys themselves did? No That the endangered humans did because the turkeys were there? Yes, but there might be a FA here That some other group(?) of humans did because the turkeys were there? indirectly, yes - but not so important

You said that this was a true story--would it have worked out the same way if it had been flocks of geese rather than turkeys involved? Maybe geese, but I am not so sure How about pigeons? Definitely not pigeons

I have abso-tively no idea where I'm going with this line of questions, by the way...

Your questions here should give you some clues to move on, I´d say
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter in what country this takes place? At what time of year?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"That the endangered humans did because the turkeys were there? Yes, but there might be a FA here"

The possible FA:
That the humans were endangered?
That the humans did something?
That the turkeys were there (i.e., in the same place as the humans)?


Similarities between geese and turkeys that pigeons don't share... size? tendency to make lots of noise when disturbed? fact that domestic turkeys and domestic geese are basically non-flyers, while domestic pigeons are very good flyers??
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I overlooked these questions:

Does it matter in what country this takes place? Noish. With a small modification, I´d say no. But if it is of interest to you, I can tell you that it took place in Spain At what time of year? No
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The possible FA:
That the humans were endangered?
That the humans did something?
That the turkeys were there (i.e., in the same place as the humans)? Yes. The turkeys weren´t there all the time


Similarities between geese and turkeys that pigeons don't share... size? tendency to make lots of noise when disturbed? fact that domestic turkeys and domestic geese are basically non-flyers, while domestic pigeons are very good flyers?? Exactly. This is a vital point. Good question!
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the people confined somewhere? trapped? under siege? Barred from a place of safety? Did the turkey's arrival show them a path to somewhere else that the humans previously hadn't been aware of? or had believed to be impassable?

Is the second group of turkeys (who didn't aid the humans, and may or may not have been eaten) the turkeys who were already in the same place as the humans?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the people confined somewhere? Yes trapped? under siege? YES! Barred from a place of safety? Did the turkey's arrival show them a path to somewhere else that the humans previously hadn't been aware of? No or had believed to be impassable? No

Is the second group of turkeys (who didn't aid the humans, and may or may not have been eaten) the turkeys who were already in the same place as the humans? No
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had turkeys been introduced recently into Spain?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which reveals another assumption that I was making-- Are the people who ate the turkeys the same group as the endangered people? Or were the turkeys eaten by the besiegers? If the latter, did the arrival of the turkeys in the besieger's camp provide a distraction that allowed the endangered people to escape? to make an attack while the besiegers were eating?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David: Had turkeys been introduced recently into Spain? No. They were well known as domestic birds at that time

Barbara: Are the people who ate the turkeys the same group as the endangered people? Yes Or were the turkeys eaten by the besiegers? No If the latter, did the arrival of the turkeys in the besieger's camp provide a distraction that allowed the endangered people to escape? to make an attack while the besiegers were eating? So nothing like that