[Sundowner] Concordia domi foris pax... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - October 2005 » [Sundowner] Concordia domi foris pax « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through August 26, 2005Tony22 8-26-05  2:05 pm
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ten people make claims against the German government? Yes.
for unpaid wages? No.
for under-paid wages? Yes.
for overpayment of tax? No.
for compensation for some physical injury? No.
for compensation for emotional distress and trauma? No.

Going back to "Churchill's move" ... was this related to the position of the boundaries between GDR and FRG? No. the partition of Berlin? No.
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

EXTRA INFO

Here's the point where I should add one fact about this story you might not know and never guess.

When after 1990 the East German government workers were transferred into the new structures of the unified Germany, it turned out, surprise surprise, that their salaries were about 50% of the salaries of government workers in similar positions in the West. Sure this was regarded most unfair, but, on the other hand, money does not grow on trees. So the Statutory Wage Tariff for Government Workers was enacted in the East, but at a level of 74% only, for the beginning. It was promised to raise this level to 100% within the next 10 years. However, in 1998 this process came to a halt at 86%. So, still today German government workers having their job in the East German states get only 86% of the salary of their colleagues in the West.

So what happened here is that our 10 guys found a way to be paid West salary though working in the East.

You have to find out what they did and how Winston Churchill's legendary move (very indirectly helped them.
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they claim that they were originally West Germans and somehow the redrawing of the map placed them in East Germany?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they claim that they were originally West Germans and somehow the redrawing of the map placed them in East Germany? No. They're East Germans, living in East Germany and working for a East German government institution. They get West salary, though.
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it seems that there is something special that distinguishes these ten people, not just that they had the smarts to figure this out... since there would only be about 100-150 potential cases, am I correct? (ie not all East German workers could make the claim.)
Does it have to do with their geographical location?
Their genealogy?
Their specific government job?
their age?
Some other physical characteristic?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jennifer! :)

So it seems that there is something special that distinguishes these ten people, not just that they had the smarts to figure this out... since there would only be about 100-150 potential cases, am I correct? You're right. (ie not all East German workers could make the claim.)
Does it have to do with their geographical location? Y-Yes.
Their genealogy? No.
Their specific government job? Yes.
their age? No.
Some other physical characteristic? Depends on what you mean by physical.
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

government job - police? other law enforcement? legislation? judicial jobs? executive gov't job? Public worker? (health, sanitation, etc.)?
geographical location = berlin? north east part of germany? south east part? is it the city i'm looking for? the region?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

government job - police? A specific branch of police.
other law enforcement? legislation? judicial jobs? executive gov't job? Public worker? (health, sanitation, etc.)?

geographical location = berlin? north east part of germany? south east part? This one.
is it the city i'm looking for? the region? The region and some specific characteristic of it.
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the specific characteristic have to do with its terrain? its local government? its people? its food? its local exports and imports? is this the region of bavaria? does the specific branch of police deal with anything related to wwii? to narcotics? homicide?
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, you've got me brushing up on history too... I see it was Churchill who recommended that France be included in the division of Germany - is this relevant? Were these workers living in the French section?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the specific characteristic have to do with its terrain? Yes.
its local government? No.
its people? No.
its food? No.
its local exports and imports? No.
is this the region of Bavaria? No.
does the specific branch of police deal with anything related to wwii? Not specifically.
to narcotics? Could be.
homicide? No.

Okay, you've got me brushing up on history too... I see it was Churchill who recommended that France be included in the division of Germany - is this relevant? No.
Were these workers living in the French section? No. They used to live and are still living in the area formerly known as Russian section, later German Democratic Republic, and now The Five New States of Germany.
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the terrain especially mountainous? Is it part of the Black Forest region? Are there lakes? Or some other pertinent body of water? The Danube? Are the police customs workers? Border patrol?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the terrain especially mountainous? No.
Is it part of the Black Forest region? No.
Are there lakes? No.
Or some other pertinent body of water? Yes.
The Danube? No.
Are the police customs workers? Border patrol? This one. Well done!
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the body of water a river? The Rhein? Rhone? Do they work on the Western side of the river and that is why they should get paid Western salary?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the body of water a river? Yes.
The Rhein? No.
Rhone? Oops?! But I'm going to save you going through all the rivers in Europe: The river is called Neisse.
Do they work on the Western side of the river and that is why they should get paid Western salary? No, but you're getting close. It's almost the contrary of what you said, though. /Well, that was helpful, wasn't it :)
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they work on the Eastern side, so they technically work in East Germany, but they live on the West German side, so they should get paid the salary of westerners?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they work on the Eastern side Yes .., so they technically work in East Germany .. but no.., but they live on the West German side .. not at all .., so they should get paid the salary of westerners? .. but yes!

A look on a map might help ..
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay... do they actually work in Poland? but live in east germany?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay... do they actually work in Poland? Yes!
but live in east germany? Not only live, but also their head office is in East Germany.
Now it's easy to sum it up ...
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Winston Churchill's move had to do with making the Neisse river the border between Germany and Poland? And these workers, who live and have office in East Germany, do not actually work in East Germany, but in Poland. They claim that they should not be paid the measly East German salary when they do not work in East Germany.... is this basically right?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Winston Churchill's move had to do with making the Neisse river the border between Germany and Poland? Yes.
And these workers, who live and have office in East Germany, do not actually work in East Germany, but in Poland. Yes.
They claim that they should not be paid the measly East German salary when they do not work in East Germany.... is this basically right? Not a trace of left.

Therefore the ..
SPOILER

Winston Churchill's move finally gave some German government workers a higher income.

During the Yalta Conference in 1945, Mr. Stalin, Mr. Roosevelt, and Mr. Churchill were discussing the future borders of Germany. According to an often quoted story, Mr. Stalin, who was not really a friend of the Poles, went to the map table and put a match on the river Bug, meaning that this river should become the new border between Poland and the Soviet Union. Churchill, who was a friend of the Poles, but not really a friend of the Germans, was not ready to accept that Poland should lose about one half of its territory -- so he put another match on the river Neisse, meaning that of Poland loses territory in the East, it should be compensated by territory in the West.

47 years later, Germany and Poland found that, with the increasing traffic between both countries, they would need to simplify and speed up the border control. So they switched to one-stop checking (all traffic from Germany to Poland is checked by Polish police only, all traffic into the other direction by German police only) and build several new common checkpoint buildings.

As a result of Churchills move, large part of the border between Germany is in the middle of a river. (first Neisse, then Oder) Of course, it does not make much sense to build a checkpoint building in the middle of the bridge, so these building were build on one of the sides of the river, and for practical reasons (and because the ground is cheaper) most of them are on the Polish side.

The salary for East German government workers is defined in the Wage & Salary Statute of the Public Services at a level of 86% per cent of the normal statute salary for those workers who "have their regular place of work in the Five New States". As a checkpoint building on the Polish side of the river is not "in the Five New States", these guys claimed, that the salary cut should not apply to them. The case went to the court, and finally, a district Labor Court in Dresden approved their claim.

You might imagine that all this would not have happened, if Winston Churchill had not moved the German border onto a river. Thank you, Mr. Churchill, finally.
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The title: "Concordia domi foris pax" is the inscription at the Holsten Gate of Lübeck. It means "unity at home, peace abroad" and is, in fact, an abbreviated version of a motto that was written on one of the medieval gates of Lübeck.

The relevance for this puzzle is just to remind you about the difference between "at home" and "abroad". Sometimes just some meters, but they might result in a lot of euros every month. (Note, that the salary cut still applies to those border police who have the bad luck to have their container on the German side...)

Thanks to all who participated, and special congrats to Jennifer who bravely went ahead and solved it. More puzzles will follow when the time has come ;)

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: