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Archive through August 23, 2005Lewis Zeiters22 8-23-05  6:09 am
Archive through September 13, 2005Tony22 9-13-05  10:05 pm
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Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 09:39 pm:


was someone else on the roof with ron? no was something else? {unknown and irrel.} was he/she/it a danger to ron? did the father even know that ron was up there at all? 99.999999% sure he didn't know

By Tony (E20) on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 10:05 pm:


Clarification please:
Did Ron's father intend to fire the weapon? yope
Did his father intend to pull the trigger? yes

Had Ron already jumped when he was shot? yes! Was he still on the roof? no!

Was Ron's father ... on the ground? on the roof?

in the building? this one

in another building? on another roof? in a tree? and none of the rest

Does Ron's father have perfect 20/20 vision? irrel

I sense the end may be near... GREAT WORK!!!
Tony (E20)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the building the family home?

Ron's father was inside the building ... cleaning his shotgun?
showing off his shotgun to the rest of the family?
practising shooting at targets taped to the window?
shooting at birds/animals outside the building?

Did the shot go through the wall? the window? the door?

Ron's father aimed at a pigeon, but Ron got in the way on his fall to earth?

Or was Ron's father aiming to shoot his other son, but missed and hit Ron instead?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tony (E20) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 01:09 pm:


Was the building the family home? yes-ish

Ron's father was inside the building yes ... cleaning his shotgun? no-ish
showing off his shotgun to the rest of the family? no, maybe slight -ish
practising shooting at targets taped to the window? no
shooting at birds/animals outside the building?
no, although i know some who would probably try that at least once...
Did the shot go through the wall? the window? this one the door? and none of the rest.

Ron's father aimed at a pigeon, but Ron got in the way on his fall to earth? yope

Or was Ron's father aiming to shoot his other son, but missed and hit Ron instead? yopeish, FA , but closer to the right forest
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the fa that there was another son? was he trying for his wife? for the neighbor across the way?
Tony (E20)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The family home (-ish) ... was it an apartment building? a trailer? a bungalow? a hotel?
How many floors were there in total: 1? 2? 3?... etc
Which floor was the father on: 1? 2? 3?... etc

Was there anyone else in the room with Ron's father? How many: 1? 2? 3?... etc
Were they family members?

Did father know the gun was loaded? Did he think it contained blank cartridges?

Was he pointing the gun at something inside the room? Outside the room? a person? an animal? an object?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 04:11 pm:


is the fa that there was another son? was he trying for his wife? this one, but there is another FA in your question here. for the neighbor across the way?

By Tony (E20) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 05:02 pm:


The family home (-ish) ... was it an apartment building? this one a trailer? a bungalow? a hotel?
How many floors were there in total: 1? 2? 3?... etc ten floors total
Which floor was the father on: 1? 2? 3?... etc he was on the ninth floor

Was there anyone else in the room with Ron's father? yes, his wife How many: 1? 2? 3?... etc
Were they family members?

Did father know the gun was loaded? NO! Did he think it contained blank cartridges? no

Was he pointing the gun at something inside the room? this one Outside the room? a person? this one! an animal? an object?

this one is really heading homeward quickly. once again, great work all!!!
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the dad was pointing the gun at the wife, not thinking it was loaded. He shoots, just as Ron falls by the window. Oops, the gun was loaded, and now Ron is dead, which he was trying to accomplish anyways, but by throwing himself off the roof of the 10 floor apartment building? is this correct so far? do we need to find out anything else?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 08:26 pm:


So the dad was pointing the gun at the wife, not thinking it was loaded. He shoots, just as Ron falls by the window. Oops, the gun was loaded, and now Ron is dead which Dad doesn't know (yet...), which he (Ron)was trying to accomplish anyways, but by throwing himself off the roof of the 10 floor apartment building? is this correct so far? do we need to find out anything else? sounds excellent... just keep following the logical progression of the story and do some more exploring...
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the dad and mom have marital problems? is that why the dad was threatening her with a gun? Is that what was driving Ron to kill himself? Did the parents ever find out about Ron's death (I assume eventually, but is that part of the puzzle?) Did they do anything once they found out, like kill themselves?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ron's suicidal attempt in direct relation to "trouble at home"? That culminated in Ron's father taking a shotgun to Ron's mother, that he believed was unloaded.
Is who loaded it important?
If so:
Ron?
Ron's father?
Ron's mother?
someone else - family related?
- not family related.
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:02 pm:


Did the dad and mom have marital problems? yesis that why the dad was threatening her with a gun?yes Is that what was driving Ron to kill himself? a significant part, yes Did the parents ever find out about Ron's death they played a significant role in the events that followed Ron's death (I assume eventually, but is that part of the puzzle?) Did they do anything once they found out, like kill themselves? nothing like this

By Benjamin Moore (Zenith) on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 02:15 pm:


Is Ron's suicidal attempt in direct relation to "trouble at home"? yes--see above That culminated in Ron's father taking a shotgun to Ron's mother, that he believed was unloaded. actually, this was a "regular occurrence", but you are correct.
Is who loaded it important? ABSOLUTELY!
If so:
Ron? DING,DING,DING!!!! We have a winner!
Ron's father?
Ron's mother?
someone else - family related?
- not family related. none of the rest
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ron load the gun with the intention of having his father kill his mother?
Were there murder trials after Ron's death?
Was it a combo of depression about the family situation and guilt about loading the gun that drove him to jump?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 04:51 pm:


Did Ron load the gun with the intention of having his father kill his mother? YES!
Were there murder trials after Ron's death? YES!
Was it a combo of depression about the family situation this one and guilt about loading the gun that drove him to jump? but not this one... more that it was taking too long to happen
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so what is left to figure out...? was ron's dad charged for the killing of Ron? of Ron's mom (I can't remember if she actually died or if he missed her) attempted murder?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 09:40 pm:


so what is left to figure out...? was ron's dad charged for the killing of Ron?no! of Ron's mom he missed her (I can't remember if she actually died or if he missed her) attempted murder? not this one...

keep working this line, then there's one more ironic detail that may or may not be found out. if/when that's all that is left, i may $ p o i l ....
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Ron's dad charged with anything? Was Ron charged with anything posthumously?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 07:10 pm:


Was Ron's dad charged with anything? yes, but not convicted... Was Ron charged with anything posthumously?
yes-ish...
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was ron charged of attempted suicide but not convicted since he didn't end up committing suicide? was ron's dad charged with something related to having a loaded firearm? charged for something related to ron's death? to something related to his marital dispute?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 12:15 am:


was ron charged of attempted suicide yes but not convicted since he didn't end up committing suicide? On the contrary... was ron's dad charged with something related to having a loaded firearm? charged for something related to ron's death? to something related to his marital dispute? none of the rest are relevant... this one is *almost* ready to $ p o i l...
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so ron was convicted of suicide, since ironically he was responsible for his own shooting?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 08:14 pm:


so ron was convicted of suicide, since ironically he was responsible for his own shooting?
YES!!!

Now, there is one more semi-random, even more ironic twist to this puzzle... I'll give another couple of days or so and if no one stumbles across it, I'll $ p o i l ....
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

twist have to do with Ron? with ron's father? with ron's mom? was ron's dad charged with aiding and abetting a suicide? is the twist related to court charges at all?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 01:26 am:


twist have to do with Ron? with ron's father? with ron's mom? was ron's dad charged with aiding and abetting a suicide? is the twist related to court charges at all?

The twist has to do with something -ishly related to the accident... hint in whitetext: what if Ron hadn't been shot on the way down?
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would ron have landed differently? been charged with something else? would he have been charged with murder? attempted murder? was he convicted of the attempted murder of his mother?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 01:46 pm:


would ron have landed differently?yope--explore been charged with something else? would he have been charged with murder? attempted murder? was he convicted of the attempted murder of his mother? none of the rest
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would ron have landed? on his head? on his feet? was there an awning? or a tree? or something else that would have caught him? would he still have died?
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382) on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 07:29 pm:


would ron have landed? yes on his head? maybe on his feet? maybe was there an awning? or a tree? or something else that would have caught him? would he still have died? NO!

That's what i was looking for... see the:

SPOILER:

On March 23, 1994 the medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus
and concluded that he died from a shotgun wound to the head. Mr. Opus had
jumped from the top of a ten-story building intending to commit suicide.

He left a note to the effect indicating his despondency.

As he fell past the ninth floor his life was interrupted by a shotgun
blast passing through a window, which killed him instantly.

Neither the shooter nor the deceased was aware that a safety net had
been installed just below the eighth floor level to protect some building
workers and that Ronald Opus would not have been able to complete his
suicide the way he had planned.

"Ordinarily," Dr Mills continued, "Someone who sets out to commit
suicide and ultimately succeeds, even though the mechanism might not be
what he intended, is still defined as committing suicide." That Mr. Opus was
shot on the way to certain death, but probably would not have been
successful because of the safety net, caused the medical examiner to feel
that he
had a homicide on his hands.

In the room on the ninth floor, where the shotgun blast emanated, was
occupied by an elderly man and his wife. They were arguing vigorously
and he was threatening her with a shotgun. The man was so upset that when
he pulled the trigger he completely missed his wife and the pellets went
through the window striking Mr. Opus.

When one intends to kill subject 'A' but kills subject 'B' in the
attempt, one is guilty of the murder of subject 'B'.

When confronted with the murder charge the old man and his wife were
both adamant and both said that they thought the shotgun was not loaded.

The old man said it was a long-standing habit to threaten his wife with
the unloaded shotgun. He had no intention to murder her.

Therefore the killing of Mr. Opus appeared to be an accident; that is,
assuming the gun had been accidentally loaded.

The continuing investigation turned up a witness who saw the old
couple's son loading the shotgun about six weeks prior to the fatal
accident.

It transpired that the old lady had cut off her son's financial support
and the son, knowing the propensity of his father to use the shotgun
threateningly, loaded the gun with the expectation that his father
would shoot his mother.

Since the loader of the gun was aware of this, he was guilty of the
murder even though he didn't actually pull the trigger. The case now
becomes one of murder on the part of the son for the death of Ronald Opus.

Now comes the exquisite twist.

Further investigation revealed that the son was, in fact, Ronald Opus.
He had become increasingly despondent over the failure of his attempt
to engineer his mother's murder. This led him to jump off the ten-story
building on March 23rd, only to be killed by a shotgun blast passing
through the ninth story window. The son had actually murdered himself so
the medical examiner closed the case as a suicide.

A true story from Associated Press, Reported by Kurt Westervelt
Jennifer Warde (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What a crazy story! It made for a great LTP! Thanks! Ironically March 23 is my birthday :)
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

... as if there wasn't already enough irony in the story?

Glad you enjoyed it... now to come up with something new...

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