Archive through July 11, 2005 Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - July 2005 » [Haenlomal] Success! » Archive through July 11, 2005 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lzeiters

patience? Read previous answers -- or in this case, see my reply to Dlcygnet in the posting just above yours. :)

Rabrab

Well, using your hint above, most small children try to connect the word or concept they don't understand to one that they do. However, they may not pick a very good replacement. (Pontius was the pilot on Mary and Joseph's flight to Egypt, frex.)

Is this what happened here? Sorry, but nothing like this.

This puzzle is (believe it or not) actually close to being solved. I shall post a recap to help speed things along.
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oops... sorry about that...
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We don't need it?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lzeiters

oops... sorry about that... No apologies are necessary, Lewis. :) I've done plenty of that myself, so I understand perfectly.

Doctapeppa

We don't need it? Huh? Don't need what?

And here's the long promised...

RECAP/REFOCUS/HINTS:

The source for this puzzle is a JOKE. In the joke the father was trying to teach his very young son something. The son asked for several clarifications, and the father answered his son. So the joke takes the shape of a back and forth conversation between the father and son. At the conclusion of the joke, the reader is forced to conclude that according to the joke, all one really needs is wisdom.

We don't know yet exactly what the father was trying to teach his son, but we do know that it involved <something> and wisdom, where <something> is a virtue yet to be discovered. Not much progress has been made in this direction, though we have firmly established that it is not patience.

We also know that the concept of Success is a relevant idea to the joke (hence the puzzle title). However, exactly how that fits into the joke has yet to be determined.

NEW HINTS

The flow of the dialogue is as follows:

Father: <teaches his son something>
Son: <Asks father a clarifying question>
Father: <Answers the question>
Son: <Asks father a second clarifying question>
Father: <Answers the second question -- this is also the punchline>

REFOCUS
1) What was the father trying to teach son?
2) Identifying the second virtue paired up with wisdom will help immensely.
3) Identifying how "Success" ties into the joke will also help immensely.
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*yanks out the "Book of Virtues"*

Is the second virtue...
Self-discipline
Compassion
Responsibility
Friendship
Work
Courage
Perseverance
Faith
Acceptance
Bravery
Caution
Curiosity
Defiance
Determination
Devotion
Discretion
Flexibility
Focus
Forgiveness
Generosity
Gentleness
Gratitude
Honesty
Humbleness
Humor
Impartiality
Industry
Innocence
Justice
Kindness
Love
Loyalty
Majesty
Moderation
Obedience
Openness
Peace
Prudence
Reliability
Responsibility
Sensitivity
Simplicity
Sincerity
Sobriety
Spontaneity
Steadfastness
Strength
Toughness
Tranquility
Trust
Trustworthiness
Other?
Mario Mattiello (Mattiel)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is success relevant in the sense that "we only need wisdom and the second virtue to reach success"?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet

*yanks out the "Book of Virtues"* Now THAT'S a big book!

Is the second virtue...
Self-discipline
Compassion
Responsibility
Friendship
Work
Courage
Perseverance
Faith
Acceptance
Bravery
Caution
Curiosity
Defiance
Determination
Devotion
Discretion
Flexibility
Focus
Forgiveness
Generosity
Gentleness
Gratitude
Honesty This one -- well done!
Humbleness
Humor
Impartiality
Industry
Innocence
Justice
Kindness
Love
Loyalty
Majesty
Moderation
Obedience
Openness
Peace
Prudence
Reliability
Responsibility
Sensitivity
Simplicity
Sincerity
Sobriety
Spontaneity
Steadfastness
Strength
Toughness
Tranquility
Trust
Trustworthiness
Other?

Mattiel

Is success relevant in the sense that "we only need wisdom and the second virtue to reach success"? YES!!! Well done. :) Now if you put that together with the second virtue discovered above, you can reconstruct the father's basic lesson to his son.
Mario Mattiello (Mattiel)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, let's try to reconstruct a part of the dialog...

Father: (still to discover)
Son: How can we reach success?
Father: We just need honesty and wisdom.
Son: (still to discover too)
Father: Well, in that case I guess all we really need is wisdom!

Correct? Or the "We just need honesty and wisdom" is actually the first father's sentence?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, let's try to reconstruct a part of the dialog...

Father: (still to discover)
Son: How can we reach success?
Father: We just need honesty and wisdom.
Son: (still to discover too)
Father: Well, in that case I guess all we really need is wisdom!

Correct? Unfortunately no -- not really that close at all. But... Or the "We just need honesty and wisdom" is actually the first father's sentence? ...this is correct! :) And since I'm not mean enough to demand the exact words used, I'll give the first sentence spoken by the father to you.

Father: "So remember, son. The key to success is honesty and wisdom."
Son: <asks a question>
Father: <answers the question>
Son: <asks a second question>
Father: <answers the second question -- this is also the joke's punchline>
Me: (after reading the joke) Well, in that case I guess all we really need is wisdom!

Hope that clarifies things a bit.
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom"
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the son's first question: was it about what "honesty" means? how it's defined? how you tell if you've got it?

Same questions regarding "success", please?

And again for "wisdom"?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is not wise to be so honest?
Yoda: "If informed the Senate is, multiply our advisaries[sic] will."
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa

"Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom" Maybe, but that was not the lesson that the father imparted to his son (see the previous posts)

Rabrab

So, the son's first question: was it about what "honesty" means? how it's defined? how you tell if you've got it? Yup, that's the right general idea. And since I'm not cruel enough to require the exact wording, here it is...

Father: "So remember, son. The key to success is honesty and wisdom."
Son: "And what is honesty?"


Same questions regarding "success", please? No...beyond the initial lesson, success is not mentioned explicitly again.

And again for "wisdom"? Not for the first question, but...

Doctapeppa, again

It is not wise to be so honest? Not really, but this idea is not that far from the right forest...
Yoda: "If informed the Senate is, multiply our advisaries[sic] will." The word you're looking for is "adversaries". But Star Wars isn't relevant to this puzzle at all.
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you sure he said "adversaries"? It sounded like he said "advisaries". The problem is that isn't a word. "Advisory" is, and "adversary" is, but "advisary" is not...

Did the father say honesty was an herb? Or did he say that it was telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God?
(no pun-ctuation intended)
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you sure he said "adversaries"? It sounded like he said "advisaries". The problem is that isn't a word. "Advisory" is, and "adversary" is, but "advisary" is not... I'm pretty sure Yoda meant "adversaries" even if his pronunciation was a bit off...

Did the father say honesty was an herb? No Or did he say that it was telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God? No
(no pun-ctuation intended)
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the father say honesty was not lying?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say that honesty is doing the right thing?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say that honesty was personal integrity?
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say that honesty means telling the truth no matter what?

Does the overall joke have to do with politics? Buisness people? People in general?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa

Did the father say honesty was not lying? No, but this is in the right forest.

Rabrab

Did he say that honesty is doing the right thing? No, but this too is in the right forest.

Doctapeppa, again

Did he say that honesty was personal integrity? No, but this also is in the right forest.

Dlcygnet

Did he say that honesty means telling the truth no matter what? No...and unfortunately, this answer is a bit further away than the three presented above.

Does the overall joke have to do with politics? Buisness people? People in general? The last one -- but this joke applies pretty well to business people and especially well to politicians!
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the Father's response a direct definition of honesty? Or was it more of a euphemism? Or example?
Definitions
Honesty means being sincere.
Honesty means displaying integrity at all times.
An honest person doesn't deceive people.
Euphemism/example
Honesty means telling your mom the dress doesn't make her look fat, her fat makes her look fat.
Honesty means never being a lawyer.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the Father's response a direct definition of honesty? Or was it more of a euphemism? Or example? This one, though the father stated it in such as way as to give the impression that it was a direct definition
Definitions Not a definition
Honesty means being sincere.
Honesty means displaying integrity at all times.
An honest person doesn't deceive people.
Euphemism/example
Honesty means telling your mom the dress doesn't make her look fat, her fat makes her look fat.
Honesty means never being a lawyer. None of these two examples either