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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - October 2005 » << Zenith >> Not in the Band... » Archive through July 25, 2005 « Previous Next »

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Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 4:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his deafness allow him use another sense in an effective way for his music? well, sight would have become more useful, but this is not relevent to the puzzle :)
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 4:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are patterns relevant? notations?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 6:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are patterns relevant? notations? no to both
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that his deafness prevented him from hearing his music butchered by incompetent performers?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 4:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that his deafness prevented him from hearing his music butchered by incompetent performers? no, but this has been the closest so far...
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that, when conducting, he could not hear mistakes that would rattle him?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 5:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, well, there was only one instance when he actually did try to conduct while deaf that I know of: the inaugral presentation of his ninth symphony. However, the 'real' conductor was conducting on the sideline, out of sight of Beethovan. I don't really think any mistakes would have rattled him quite as much as his deafness itself did.
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Acually, looking back, there may have been a slight Blooper. So I'll post a

* * * * Refocus * * * *

So far we have gathered that the man is Ludwig Beethovan, and that his deafness possibly came as a blessing. The blooper was that the blessing was relevant only to Beethovan. In fact many people could be said to have benefited from Beethovan's deafness, which is why I said it was a blessing predominately to Beethovan.


Barbara's post on the 25th of May has been the closest so far. Take a good look at that one and explore from there...
LEWIS ZEITERS (Lzeiters)
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it that since he was able to hear as a child and gradually lost his hearing, combined with the other remarks regarding influence from others, distractions, etc, made him a better composer? is the "fame" he achieved by being deaf that he might not have received over the same music had he been able to hear relevant?
LEWIS ZEITERS (Lzeiters)
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another thought... is his hearing loss what kept him "out of the band" and led him to become a composer?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it that since he was able to hear as a child and gradually lost his hearing, combined with the other remarks regarding influence from others, distractions, etc, made him a better composer? true, but something is still missing is the "fame" he achieved by being deaf that he might not have received over the same music had he been able to hear relevant? no

Another thought... is his hearing loss what kept him "out of the band" and led him to become a composer? Intriguing question. I hadn't interpreted out of the band like that, but in all honesty, that is quite correct. But not exactly what I'm looking for... :)
LEWIS ZEITERS (Lzeiters)
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK... my brain is tugging me in a few different directions... see if this will help you help me out...

#1: He felt that since his music was from his own imagination, it was perfect, unstained by the imperfections/limitations of musical instruments and/or performers.... (???)

*or*

#2: His emotional trauma caused by his hearing loss made him more emotive, which he funneled through his mind's ear to express himself through his music, as a form of therapy, as it were. This, consequently, made him a better composer.

*or*

#3: If he had not lost his hearing, he would have been doing something else, perhaps something he would not have enjoyed...

Any of these scenarios relevant? Irrelevant?
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I'm just going to start rambling a bunch of random info about Beethoven and see if it leads anywhere....
Prior to B, music of the era was used for religious purposes, teaching purposes, or to entertain people at social functions. Beethoven's music was listened to for its own sake. -Who would criticise a noble and a deaf man? A noble, yes... but a deaf one? No-

Being friends with the aristocracy meant Beethoven wasn't treated as an employee like Haydn or Mozart (each of whom had a unique style and might have influenced Beethoven had he heard their work?). Actually, now that I think about it... in his first period he was somewhat DEPENDENT on them (And C.P.E. Bach) for inspiration. After he went deaf, he stopped relying on them and also increased his productiveness considerably.

When Beethoven started losing his hearing he became increasingly suspicious and irritable. When complete deafness finally set in, he reduced his normal social life. Thus, it was a blessing that he went deaf so people wouldn't be exposed to his irritability and stop supporting his music?

Out of the Band... wedding band? if he had not gone deaf and gotten irritable, he would have met a nice girl, gotten married and been too busy with kids and socializing to compose?

Is ANY of this remotely relevant?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Lisa

...
Being friends with the aristocracy meant Beethoven wasn't treated as an employee like Haydn or Mozart (each of whom had a unique style and might have influenced Beethoven had he heard their work?). Actually, now that I think about it... in his first period he was somewhat DEPENDENT on them (And C.P.E. Bach) for inspiration. After he went deaf, he stopped relying on them and also increased his productiveness considerably. this last bit is closest, the rest is pretty irrelevent
...
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 5:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok... left field.

Was his deafness a blessing because he couldn't hear the CRITICS of his work? So he never modified the way he did things from 3rd symphony on... thus we wound up with his infamous 5th symphony and the rest. Pieces that were written in a style that he would have never achieved if he'd listend to his peers and critics.
Lewis Zeiters (Lzeiters)
Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So... if I'm interpreting you right, I'm seeing that the relevance of the above deals primarily with his productivity, and that if ___________ hadn't happened, he wouldn't have been so productive...
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his deafness a blessing because he couldn't hear the CRITICS of his work? no So he never modified the way he did things from 3rd symphony on... thus we wound up with his infamous 5th symphony and the rest. this is slightly true. Pieces that were written in a style that he would have never achieved if he'd listend to his peers and critics. He's an artist. The only critic artists listen to are themselves (and perhaps their employers) :)

So... if I'm interpreting you right, I'm seeing that the relevance of the above deals primarily with his productivity, and that if ___________ hadn't happened, he wouldn't have been so productive... no. This is not about productivity. There is something else he relied on. Other composers (bar one, but not relevent at the moment and is unnecessary to discover) are not relevent
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild Guess time!

Something he relied on = his piano? anything to do with whether it was perfectly tuned or not?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild Guess time! yay for wild guesses!

Something he relied on = his piano? YES anything to do with whether it was perfectly tuned or not? not quite, it's a little more complex than that
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something involving the piano...

I know he sawed the legs off the piano so he could feel the vibrations in the floor. Did that have anything to do with this problem? Do advances in vibration/accoustics engineering stem from this? Did the fact that the piano had no legs save it from some sort of natural disaster/event that would have otherwise destroyed it and taken Beethoven's career with it (if he hadn't been rich enough to just get a new piano)? Is the fact that he had to smash the keys to make the vibrations loud enough for him to feel relevant? I.e. If he hadn't had to pound the keys, the 5th Symphony wouldn't sound like it does?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 5:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something involving the piano...

I know he sawed the legs off the piano so he could feel the vibrations in the floor. Did that have anything to do with this problem? Do advances in vibration/accoustics engineering stem from this? closest but not that close... Did the fact that the piano had no legs save it from some sort of natural disaster/event that would have otherwise destroyed it and taken Beethoven's career with it (if he hadn't been rich enough to just get a new piano)? Is the fact that he had to smash the keys to make the vibrations loud enough for him to feel relevant? I.e. If he hadn't had to pound the keys, the 5th Symphony wouldn't sound like it does? cute idea, but no
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something to do with the development of hearing aids? Advances in modern technology owe their origin to him?