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Archive through November 10, 2005Jennifer22 11-10-05  5:18 pm
Archive through November 10, 2005Jennifer22 11-10-05  11:21 pm
Archive through November 11, 2005Ixoye72422 11-11-05  8:07 pm
Archive through November 12, 2005Ixoye72422 11-12-05  7:42 pm
Archive through November 14, 2005Ixoye72422 11-14-05  4:38 pm
Archive through November 14, 2005Vae22 11-14-05  5:35 pm
Archive through November 15, 2005Ixoye72422 11-15-05  4:38 am
Archive through November 15, 2005Lewis Zeiters22 11-15-05  6:09 pm
Archive through November 16, 2005Barbara Johannessen 22 11-16-05  4:15 pm
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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: hmm... put the ones and tens on the tens shelf in stacks of ten, and try just putting single fives and 25s on the ones shelf. Trav: Ok, will do...

I just arranged the coins this way, and the old man watched me the whole time. When I was done, he took all the coins off the ONES shelf except a single 5 coin, which he slid to the left end of the shelf (is this significant?). On the TENS shelf, he took all off except a stack of ten 1's (which he also slid to the left end of the shelf).

The old toothless women briefly entered with her bag, but the old man waved her off and said "Come back later, we're working over here."
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barb: OK, it seems that one stack of ten 10's on the TENS shelf is right. Trav: Based on the old man's interest I'd agree with you. (Or close to right. Or on the way to right.) Let's leave that alone for now. Trav: I think that's wise
Ixoye: So do I!

Put one 1 on the ONES shelf. (I don't remember, have we had this configuration before?) Trav: Ok, I put a single 1 next to the lone 5 that was there, but the old guy took it right back off.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trav: I've become aware that the wheelbarrow guy is now in the room with a broom, sweeping all the coins on the floor into a single pile on the floor next to where I am standing. "Ignore him and focus" says the old man...
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm confused. What's on which shelf now?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barb: I'm confused. What's on which shelf now? Trav: The ONES shelf has a single 5 coin on the far left side of the shelf. The TENS shelf has a stack of ten 1's on the left hand side of the shelf.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, thanks. Let's push those coins to the back of their respective shelves and leave them alone, and put any new coins toward the front, so that we don't start getting things mixed up. Does that work?

Is the one 5 on the ONES shelf all the way to the left edge? or is there a little space (maybe a coin's width?) between it and the edge? Same question for the stack of 1's on the TENS shelf?
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

put another single 5 next to the five that is there. then make another stack of ten 1s on the TENS shelf.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ask the old man, "Is there one pattern that will let me out, and another one that will let you leave with me?"
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barb: Ok, thanks. Let's push those coins to the back of their respective shelves and leave them alone, and put any new coins toward the front, so that we don't start getting things mixed up. Does that work? Trav: Yes, that makes sense to me. I pushed the single coin on the ONES shelf to the rear side of the shelf, and the old man almost immediately moved it back toward the center, an equal distance from the rear and front. "Not a necessary step," he whispered.

Is the one 5 on the ONES shelf all the way to the left edge? or is there a little space (maybe a coin's width?) between it and the edge? Same question for the stack of 1's on the TENS shelf?
Trav: I'd say they are about an inch or so from the left edge. It does not appear that the man is trying to put them in an exact location, just roughly on the left end.

Jenn: put another single 5 next to the five that is there. then make another stack of ten 1s on the TENS shelf. Trav: Ok, I did this, but the coins I added were soon taken back off by the old man. The original coins are still there though.

Barb: Ask the old man, "Is there one pattern that will let me out, and another one that will let you leave with me?"
Trav: His response was "No, when you get the pattern down we both get out." He's looking up at the engraved words as he says this...
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A straightforward idea would be that the TENS shelf requires stacks of 10 identical coins, and the ONES shelf "stacks" of one coin. So try that ... Wait! Remember where you are. In a dark room. OK. But this room is located in Ixoye's Puzzling Lateral Puzzles Universe. And there are no straightforward solutions. Only lateral ones.

So let's try something else. You mentioned that the man said you could get out without his help, but he not without your help. This sounds to me that he knows how to get out, but for some reason is not able to perform the required task.

Maybe you just ask him what to do?

If this does not lead you anywhere, try the following. Look carefully at the shelves. Are they mounted to the wall? standing on the floor? Try to move them. Perhaps this triggers some mechanism.

Not really? Ok, then put more stacks of 10 coins into the TENS shelf, identical to the one that used to be there. Maybe their weight finally triggers the mechanism...

If not, I'll be back tomorrow.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

try putting a single five on the TENS shelf and a stack of ten ones on the ONES shelf.
Will you look at the engraved words again and see if you notice anything special about them?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jens: A straightforward idea would be that the TENS shelf requires stacks of 10 identical coins, and the ONES shelf "stacks" of one coin. So try that ... Wait! Remember where you are. In a dark room. OK. But this room is located in Ixoye's Puzzling Lateral Puzzles Universe. And there are no straightforward solutions. Only lateral ones.
Ixoye: I guess that's true...you're correct in saying that the solution here is different than a straightforward one, at least as straightforward as the one you have suggested. I think your comments are timely though, as they may inspire our puzzlers to move just a little more in a lateral direction...

So let's try something else. You mentioned that the man said you could get out without his help, but he not without your help. This sounds to me that he knows how to get out, but for some reason is not able to perform the required task.
Ixoye: Yes, this is right.

Maybe you just ask him what to do? Trav: Ok (asks the old man what to do). He says "Focus now, read what's up there on the wall. It's not quite as obvious as it seems, but it becomes obvious as you progress. I'm stuck in here just like you are - they told me how to get out, but forbid me from telling anyone else that came in here. Therefore, once you've figured out what to put on the shelves, we are both free.

If this does not lead you anywhere, try the following. Look carefully at the shelves. Trav: Ok, they are both wooden. They cover the same width on the wall as the engraved words cover, and are located about two feet below the words. Are they mounted to the wall? Trav: Yes, they're bolted to the wall standing on the floor? Trav: No
Try to move them. Trav: They wiggle a bit, but not much
Perhaps this triggers some mechanism. Trav: Nothing is happening, and the old man is giving me a funny look.

Not really? Ok, then put more stacks of 10 coins into the TENS shelf, identical to the one that used to be there. Maybe their weight finally triggers the mechanism... Trav: Well I've added more coins, but the old man keeps removing all except the single stack of ten coins on the left side of the shelf.

Jenn: try putting a single five on the TENS shelf and a stack of ten ones on the ONES shelf. Trav: I did, and these coins were removed by our friend here.
Will you look at the engraved words again and see if you notice anything special about them? Trav: Ok, it looks simply as if someone used a chisel or some other engraving tool and just etches the letters into the brick.

Jens: If not, I'll be back tomorrow. Trav: I may not still be here, but let your brain keep working on this
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the single five coin underneath a particular letter? what about the stack of ones on the tens shelf... what letter is that under?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn:Is the single five coin underneath a particular letter? Trav: Yes, the single 5 coin is directly beneath the "O" in the word "ONES".
what about the stack of ones on the tens shelf... what letter is that under? Trav: It is directly below the "T" in the word "TENS".

The old man seems to be aware of what you are having me examine, and he is getting a bit jumpy...
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

try putting a ten under the "n" in "ONES" if he likes that, try putting a ten under the n in "tens." If not, try the ten under the e, and the s, again, putting one under the same letter in "tens" if you get a good result.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: try putting a ten under the "n" in "ONES" if he likes that, try putting a ten under the n in "tens." Trav: I did this, but he let out a sigh and took the coin back off the shelf.
If not, try the ten under the e, and the s, again, putting one under the same letter in "tens" if you get a good result. Trav: He doesn't seem to agree with this move, as he removes the coin after I place it on the shelf and step back.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

okay, try these same steps again with the "25" coin.
If that doesn't work, then try placing a stack of two fives under the "n" under the "e" and under the "s" on the ONES shelf
Then try a stack of five fives under the "n" "e" and "s" on the ONES shelf
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: okay, try these same steps again with the "25" coin. Trav: Doesn't appear to be working. The old man took the coin off the shelf and tossed it over his shoulder onto the floor. "It's not how much, it's how many..." he says.
If that doesn't work, then try placing a stack of two fives under the "n" under the "e" and under the "s" on the ONES shelf Trav: The old man took these off (surprise), but his mood seems to be getting a bit better now
Then try a stack of five fives under the "n" "e" and "s" on the ONES shelf Trav: He took these off to, but then smiled and whispered "Don't give up now...
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. On the ONES shelf, keep using the "five" coins. Under the "N" try nine coins. Under the E, try eight coins. If that doesn't work, try eleven. Under the "S" try six coins. If that doens't work, try seven coins. When you have found what worked on the ONES shelf, try the same numbers on the TENS shelf, using the "one" denomination.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: Okay. On the ONES shelf, keep using the "five" coins. Under the "N" try nine coins. Trav: Did it...the old man giggled happily and started patting me on the back...
Under the E, try eight coins. Trav: Did it, he's patting me harder...
If that doesn't work, try eleven. Trav: I'm sticking with eight, I hate to disappoint the old guy now...
Under the "S" try six coins. Trav: Did it, the man laughed loudly and yanked me by the shirt sleeve over to the other shelf, holding a handful of random coins right under my nose. "Just pick any of these!" he yells happily...
If that doens't work, try seven coins. Trav: I have the feeling we are almost done here...
When you have found what worked on the ONES shelf, try the same numbers on the TENS shelf, using the "one" denomination. Trav: Ok - by "same numbers", I assume you would like me to put, say, eight coins under the "E", nine coins under the "N", and either six or seven coins under the "S"...I hope that's what you wanted me to do.

*****************SPOILER BELOW******************

Well...once I have done all of this, the old man begins dancing around the room with both hands raised up in the air. "He did it! He did it! Now keep your promise!" he yells. The door across the room opens, and the man that was with me in the Sand Bucket room enters. He quickly walks over to the shelves and examines each stack. He then looks at me and nods, then walks to the exit door and knocks on it several times. After a moment of silence, I hear some squeaking and a loud metallic click, and the door opens.

The old man pats me on the back once again as he runs past me. "Bravo! I knew you'd get us out of there!" he yells, and dashes out the door, down some steps and out into the sunlit meadow.

Well guys, what can I say? Your brainpower got me through this crazy maze somewhat quickly. I'm going to take a long nap now, but I have a feeling I'll be asking for more help soon.

Good bye.



Ixoye: Excellent work by all players in all parts of the puzzle! Kudos to Rabrab and Tigger there at the end for plugging away at the last solution. I do have Trav's next adventure prepared if anyone is up for it. Any takers?
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, please! I love these. They have become my favorite kind of puzzle. That last one was hard... great thinking!
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brilliant, Jennifer!

And a great puzzle indeed, Ixoye! Yes, more, please!!

I was heading toward one coin of each denomination in order from left to right on the ONES, shelf, and stacks of ten on the TENS shelf.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a very interesting puzzle. If I got myself involved with it, I knew that I would waste too much time in this forum trying to beat my brains out. So I stayed out. I wish I had more time! Maybe I can participate in your next puzzle.

Once again, well done. I look forward to more of your work. :)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guys, I am truly glad you enjoyed this one, I was not sure how it would go over with this crows. Let's face it, it is becoming increasingly difficult to stump anyone who is a regular here, so why not create a new twist on lateral thinking? This one was really fun to moderate, and I am impressed with the tactics that everyone used to solve it.

Get ready for the 2nd of Trav's adventures - should be a little trickier, but also more fun!

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