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Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo
Is the crime (the one committed by the person he let go) relevant? Only in that he committed a lot of crimes, enough for the High Court of Saxony to deal with the case.

Did the released criminal commit another crime after being released? Actually, yes. Relevant? No. Relevant when?

If he had convicted the man of the crime it would've caused him embarrassment? Yes.
Loss of position? No(ish).
Loss of prestige? Yes.
Loss of revenue? No.

Was his crime (that of releasing the guilty man) about to come to light 12 years later? No.
Or had it already? No.
Would/did the original embarrassment (have) also come to light? It partly had come to light already, but for a different reason.

Was the wife involved in his decision not to convict the man? No.
If so, would it have caused her the embarrassment/loss of prestige/etc.?

Ixoye724
So, the criminal involved in this story knew the husband? Yes. And knew the wife as well? Yes.
If yes to both, did the couple keep in touch with the criminal in the days/months/years after his escape? Not really. They might have met each other occasionally, but I would not call it keeping in touch.
At the time of the double suicide, was the 3rd person (criminal) still alive? Yes. Does this matter? Somewhat.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was one of the crimes committed against either the husband or wife? so that admitting the crime had been done would have been the greatest embarassment?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the criminal related to the husband?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jennifer
was one of the crimes committed against either the husband or wife? No.
so that admitting the crime had been done would have been the greatest embarassment? No.

Bodo
Was the criminal related to the husband? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the husband, who was also the sheriff/judge, had arrested and convicted the criminal, would he have also had to convict himself?

Have we yet to determine the nature of the original crime?

The wife knew the criminal, but did she know about the act of her husband helping him escape prosecution by the law?

Did the wife's suicide have anything to do with the relationship between her husband and the other guy?

Or, was it an unrelated act which the husband wrongly interpreted?

At the time the man (Bert, I think someone called him earlier) committed the original crime, did the husband (with no name yet) know him? Did they meet during the commission of the crime? After the crime was committed?
Did Bert ask or beg to be set free, or excused from action by the law?
Or was this decision totally on the husband's part?
Did the husband feel sorry for Bert? Did Bert threaten the husband at any time? Was Bert's life ever in jeopardy? Was the husband's?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the husband, who was also the sheriff/judge, had arrested and convicted the criminal, would he have also had to convict himself? No.

Have we yet to determine the nature of the original crime? No. The original crimes included several cases of desertion (from three different armies!), some cases of robbery and numerous incidents of smuggling and poaching.

The wife knew the criminal because everyone in the town knew him, but did she know about the act of her husband helping him escape prosecution by the law? She did not know.

Did the wife's suicide have anything to do with the relationship between her husband and the other guy? With the relationship as such, no. But avoid a possible FA.

Or, was it an unrelated act which the husband wrongly interpreted? It was related to the consequences of the criminal's escape. And the husband interpreted it completely right, afterwards.

At the time the man (Bert, I think someone called him earlier Yes.) committed the original crime, did the husband (with no name yet Call him Simon.) know him? We can assume so, because in this small town all knew each other.
Did they meet during the commission of the crime? No.
After the crime was committed? Sure.
Did Bert ask or beg to be set free, or excused from action by the law? It was actually more the other way round. Simon warned Bert that people were out to arrest him.
Or was this decision totally on the husband's part? Yes.
Did the husband feel sorry for Bert? Not at all.
Did Bert threaten the husband at any time? No.
Was Bert's life ever in jeopardy? Likely. (He used to be a soldier ..)
Was the husband's? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

12 years ago, when Simon made the decision to help Bert escape legal action, was he (Simon) married to the same woman who would later commit suicide? Is this relevant?
She wasn't at that time married to Bert, was she?

She was mainly the housewife (though, there was something unusual).
This is an answer you gave earlier. Does the 'something unusual' refer to:
the living conditions between Simon and his wife?
the daily activities of Simon's wife?
something else?

At the time of his wife's suicide, would it be said that her primary motive was:
fear? depression? anxiety? other?

Did she primarily commit suicide because of something she saw? heard? read about? was told about? just suddenly realized?

Any other relevant persons involved besides Bert, Simon and Simon's wife?

Lastly, can we call Simon's wife Jane?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

12 years ago, when Simon made the decision to help Bert escape legal action, was he (Simon) married to the same woman who would later commit suicide? Yes. Is this relevant? Somewhat.
She wasn't at that time married to Bert, was she? She was never married to another man, but Simon.

She was mainly the housewife (though, there was something unusual).
This is an answer you gave earlier. Does the 'something unusual' refer to:
the living conditions between Simon and his wife? Yesish.
the daily activities of Simon's wife? No.
something else? No.

At the time of his wife's suicide, would it be said that her primary motive was:
fear? depression? Somewhat this .. anxiety? .. and this .. other? but mostly this one.

Did she primarily commit suicide because of something she saw? Yes. heard? Yes. read about? was told about? just suddenly realized? No to the rest.

Any other relevant persons involved besides Bert, Simon and Simon's wife? Sure.

Lastly, can we call Simon's wife Jane? Sure.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other relevant person living with Simon and Jane? relevant persons?
Any child involved? children?
Did Jane ever tell Simon that she wanted to kill herself? Did it completely stun and surprise Simon (like he never expected it or saw it coming)?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other relevant person living with Simon and Jane? Yope. relevant persons? One person.
Any child involved? children? One child.
Did Jane ever tell Simon that she wanted to kill herself? No.
Did it completely stun and surprise Simon (like he never expected it or saw it coming)? He did not expect it at all.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant child (Eddie?) around 12 years old? Was he/she alive when the episode between Simon and Bert occured? Is the relevant child alive when Jane kills herself? Is the child dead when she does this?

Are Jane's actions related to something Eddie says? does?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was blackmail relevant? You said that Bert was not related to Simon. Was he related to Jane in any way?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Icqus 724
Is the relevant child (Eddie?) around 12 years old? At what time?
Was he/she alive when the episode between Simon and Bert occured? Yes.
Is the relevant child alive when Jane kills herself? Yes.
Is the child dead when she does this? No.

Are Jane's actions related to something Eddie says? does? Yes to both. (but maybe an FA here)

Haenlomal
Was blackmail relevant? No.
You said that Bert was not related to Simon. Right.
Was he related to Jane in any way? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Simon's age at the time of Bert's 'amnesty' relevant? Bert's age then? Jane's age then? Eddie's age then?
At the time of Jane's death, Eddie lived in the same house/building as she did? And Simon also lived there? Did anyone else live there?
Did Eddie, at any time in his life, speak to or otherwise interact with Bert?
Did Bert's escape from legal action cause a negative consequence later in his own life? In Simon's life? In Eddie's? In Jane's?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 7:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Simon's age at the time of Bert's 'amnesty' relevant? No.
Bert's age then? Somewhat.
Jane's age then? No.
Eddie's age then? Somewhat.

At the time of Jane's death, Eddie lived in the same house/building as she did? No.
And Simon also lived there? Simon lived there.
Did anyone else live there? Yes, but irrelevant.
Did Eddie, at any time in his life, speak to or otherwise interact with Bert? Yes.
Did Bert's escape from legal action cause a negative consequence later in his own life? No.
In Simon's life? Yes-ish.
In Eddie's? No.
In Jane's? Yes-ish.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Bert really Eddie's father? Did Bert become Eddie's teacher? Did Bert go on to kill Eddie?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Bert really Eddie's father? No. Who said so?
Did Bert become Eddie's teacher? No.
Did Bert go on to kill Eddie? No.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nobody said so, i was just guessing at things that might have made people mad

When Bert has contact with Eddie, is it positive contact? Is it the contact with Eddie that leads to the suicides? Does Eddie die at any time in this puzzle?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the undignified/embarrasing thing have ocurred if Bert had gone to trial? Gone to jail? Stayed in town/around the area? Is it relevant what kind of punishment he would've received?

Was the embarrasment specific to Simon? Would it reflect badly on another person? Or more than one person? Or a larger entity (the entire town/county/country etc.)?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jennifer
When Bert has contact with Eddie, is it positive contact? For Bert and Eddie, yes.
Is it the contact with Eddie that leads to the suicides? Actually, yes.
Does Eddie die at any time in this puzzle? No.

Bodo
Would the undignified/embarrasing thing have ocurred if Bert had gone to trial? Very likely.
Gone to jail? This as well, possibly, but the important thing is the trial.
Stayed in town/around the area? No.
Is it relevant what kind of punishment he would've received? Not really.

Was the embarrasment specific to Simon? Yes.
Would it reflect badly on another person? Yes(ish).
Or more than one person? Yes(ish).
Or a larger entity (the entire town/county/country etc.)? Unlikely.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would the other person it would have badishly reflect on have been jane? eddie?

did bert become a good friend of eddie's? teach him to commit crimes? did eddie get a bad view/impression of his parents from bert?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would the other person it would have badishly reflect on have been jane? eddie? Both, actually.

did bert become a good friend of eddie's? Yes.
teach him to commit crimes? No.
did eddie get a bad view/impression of his parents from bert? No.