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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - November 2005 » [Ixoye] Trav's Lateral Adventure #1 » Archive through November 15, 2005 « Previous Next »

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Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buiding on Jennifer's suggestion-- if the iron key isn't heavy enough to hold the A key down, depess the key yourself, and wedge the iron key between the frame of the organ and the A key, so that it's holding the organ key down. You might not get full volume, but you should get a sustained note.
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Play an octave, slowly, and play an A before each note. See if the monk responds to any of them.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ryan: can u make the monk play the note by leading him to the organ and placing his hand on the a key? Trav: No, I cannot make the monk move now
or use "a key" to weigh down the A key? Trav: No, the keys I have are not nearly heavy enough

Jenn:can you take the key that you have and put it on the "a" key so that it will hold it down. then as the tone keeps playing, you can get up and go over to the doors. Trav: In theory I think this would work, but the keys are way too light to do this. Any other ideas, I think we're getting close...

Vae: Can you tell from what direction the creak is coming from? Trav: Yes (surprised no one asked me this earlier, it didn't occur to me...) I am almost 100% sure that the creak comes from directly behind me when I sit at the organ, right where those double doors are.
Does it seem like someone is walking? Trav: No, not really like that
Or something is shifting? Trav: Yes, in a way it does
Might it be the walls/floor/ceiling responding to the pitch? Trav: Well you know, all I know is the sound of the creaking seems to be coming from behind me when I sit at the organ, and I've never really looked around to try and detect an exact source of the creak...

Did you notice when the monk moved? Trav: At which time?
Try playing the whole piece, and see if he moves at certian interval, ignore the singing he makes at A for now. Trav: I played the whole piece, and kept glancing back at the monk. He didn't move out of place, but he still is singing on the A, and I am now convinced that those double doors are moving at the same time the monk sings the note.

Would you think the key would fit somewhere to stop the creaking? Trav: Hmmm...there doesn't appear to be any place in this room I can use the monk's key, other than to open the door I've already opened.
Might it be preventing the monk from moving to open the door for you? Trav: Hmm...I don't know about this

Try going through the whole octave and see if he responds at any other note. Might you be able to make him talk by playing notes? Trav: In all of this playing, the only note that causes anything to happen is A, whatever octave it is played in.

Barb: Buiding on Jennifer's suggestion-- if the iron key isn't heavy enough to hold the A key down, depess the key yourself, and wedge the iron key between the frame of the organ and the A key, so that it's holding the organ key down. Trav: Super idea! The only problem is that the key is too wide to wedge between the organ.keys. Any other way I can do this, I really think you are onto something...
You might not get full volume, but you should get a sustained note. Trav: As long as the key is depressed it will play the note, and I can hear the monk join in and a few seconds of creaking.

John: Play an octave, slowly, and play an A before each note. See if the monk responds to any of them. Trav: Again, no response except for when A is played. The monk's voice and the creaking stop as soon as I move on to another note.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

can you tell me what you are carrying right now? is the creaking coming from the doors do you think? try playing the a while turning around to see where the creaking comes from. if you have anything really heavy on you, place that on the key. if you have anything wedgeable on you, wedge the key down.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: can you tell me what you are carrying right now? Trav: Yes, sure. Other than what I am wearing, I have a small brass key that I got from the nutty hermit and a small black iron key that I took from the monk.
is the creaking coming from the doors do you think? Trav: Yes, I am almost certain of it
try playing the a while turning around to see where the creaking comes from. Trav: Aha! Get this - I held the 'A' key down, and turned around to see the monk raising his head up and his arms outward. But ALSO, as the monk sings the A, those double doors CREEEEAAAAKK for a few seconds as they swing wide open!
if you have anything really heavy on you, place that on the key. Trav: I'm not carrying anything heavy enough
if you have anything wedgeable on you, wedge the key down. Trav: Well my list of items I'm carrying is very short, so I don't think I have anything on me which would work. But do you have any other ideas as to how I could achieve this?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fold up the sheet music to an appropriate size and use it to wedge the key down.
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the monk willing to sit at the piano and play it for you? Or can you just dash through the doors in time if you're poised to sprint when they're wide open?

If not, perhaps you can use a scrap of clothing ripped from either yourself or the monk's robe to wedge everything in place? Perhaps the key itself can hold the key down?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barb: Fold up the sheet music to an appropriate size and use it to wedge the key down.
Trav: You really think this will work? I mean, someone tried to get me to kick the monk earlier, then try to break a window with the key, now this? I'm going to trust in the minds of the brilliant ones who have helped me thus far...(tears off a piece of the music, folds it up and wedges it between the A and the B)...

SUCCESS!!!!!

I've got that key solidly wedged down, and I've turned around to see the monk singing his A, and those doors are opened surprisingly quickly by two other monks who were posted on the other side of the doors. As I approach the doors, I almost cringe at the volume of this monk's voice as he continues to drone the 'A'. The other monks hold those doors open and keep their heads bowed low as I pass by. Once I'm out of the room, I turn around and see the man from the sand room enter through the doorway where the iron door was. He grins and waves to me as he walks to the organ and removes the piece of paper. The organ goes silent, as does the monk. And those monks at the door take their hands off the doors, which close in a matter of seconds with almost no sound at all. In fact, as loud as that monk was singing I never would have heard the doors close...

Whew! Nice work! Now I'm in the hallway that I could see earlier by looking through that giant keyhole - it is lit by lanterns hanging on the wall, and goes ahead for about fifteen feet and ends at a wooden door with a rounded top. This door has a small window in it, and as I approach I can hear what sounds like coins being sorted and dropped inside that room. As I get to the door and look through the window, this is what I find to be the case. This door opens easily, and I walk into a room with gray brick walls, roughly thirty by thirty feet square. The room is well lit by candles, a few lanterns hanging on the walls, and a large oil lamp on a table in the center of the room. Seated at this table is a withered, troll-like little man. He is seated on a tall stool, hunched over the table with a handful of what appear to be gold coins. He is busy examining each coin in his hand, then stacking it with other coins on the table. The floor is littered with hundreds of coins similar to the ones the man is counting. The coins on the floor are mostly in small piles around the room, yet there are many coins scattered around the room. Across the room from where I entered is another wooden door with a six inch by six inch hole cut in it. Through this hole I can see open, sunlit countryside (I think this means we're in the final room). Next to the door on the left side engraved in the wall about six feet up from the floor is the word "ONES". On the other side of the door at the same height engraved in the wall is the word "TENS". About one foot below each word, a wooden shelf is attached to the wall. The shelves are about two feet long each, roughly the same width of the engraved words. The little man does not appear to have even noticed that I have entered the room. At some point while I've been looking around, though, someone has pulled the door closed behind me, and there are no knobs or keyholes on this side of the door.

Ok, great minds, get me out of here!
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, my guess is that we have to sort some money too... can you notice any difference between the money he puts into different piles? can you describe the money for us? try picking up ten pieces that look similar and one piece that looks different and put them in front of the man to see what he will do.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pick up a handful of the coins that are lying loose on the floor (don't take any from the stacks,yet, let's not undo what the old man is doing until we know more!) and take a good look at them. Are they all the same? Are they all the same currency? are they different denominations? If they are, are there both One and Ten denominations there? If there weren't any One's or Tens in your first handful, look at a few more.

Once you've done that, look over the man's shoulder, and see if you can figure out whether he's sorting the coins, and if so, what he's sorting them by (denomination, condition, age?)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: Well, my guess is that we have to sort some money too... can you notice any difference between the money he puts into different piles? Trav: Yes, I think he's sorting them by the condition of the coin. He's got a rather tall pile of slightly dented and/or dirty-looking coins next to a small pile of clean, good looking coins.
can you describe the money for us? Trav: Sure - each coin has a picture of someone (I don't know who) on one side, and a picture of a tree on the other side. There's an inscription on the side with the tree, but it is written in a symbolic language that doesn't make any sense to me. The coins are in the same denominations as U.S. coins apparently - some have a number 1 on them, some a number 5, some number 10, and I have seen a few that have number 25 on them. The location of the numbers on each coin is just behind the head of the person pictured on one side of the coin.
try picking up ten pieces that look similar and one piece that looks different and put them in front of the man to see what he will do. Trav: Ok (does this). Hmm...I've got ten rather dirty coins in one hand and one in the other hand that looks like it just came from the mint, but I have failed to get any attention from the man.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try putting 10 "1" coins on the "Ten" shelf and 1 "10" coin on the other shelf.

Try talking to the old guy. Say Hi. Ask him what he's doing, why he's doing it, if he knows how to get out, and anything else that may be useful....
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barb: Pick up a handful of the coins that are lying loose on the floor Trav: Ok (does this).
(don't take any from the stacks,yet, let's not undo what the old man is doing until we know more!) Trav: Probably a wise move...
and take a good look at them. Are they all the same? Are they all the same currency? are they different denominations? If they are, are there both One and Ten denominations there? If there weren't any One's or Tens in your first handful, look at a few more. Trav: Someone beat you to it, read above...

Once you've done that, look over the man's shoulder, and see if you can figure out whether he's sorting the coins, and if so, what he's sorting them by (denomination, condition, age?)
Trav: Ok (walks behind the man and begins to kibitz). Well, to this point I am assuming that he is sorting them by condition/age (although I could be wrong, it looks as if a few shiny ones have made it into what I thought was the "old" stack). He does not appear to be sorting by denomination, as there are only two stacks on the table. He is looking at each coin for several minutes, turning it in his fingers and even smelling some of them, then he adds it to one of the stacks.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ian: Try putting 10 "1" coins on the "Ten" shelf and 1 "10" coin on the other shelf. Trav: Ok (does this). Well nothing happened...

Try talking to the old guy. Say Hi. Ask him what he's doing, why he's doing it, if he knows how to get out, and anything else that may be useful....
Trav: Ok, I've said "Hi" to him and asked him these other questions. He appears to be engrossed in his work and not really interested in talking to me. He has started mumbling as he looks at the coins, but I have yet to understand any words he says. Finally after I've been staring him down for a few minutes, he stops what he is doing and freezes with one hand empty and the other with a few coins in it. "Ones and tens, that's how they get out of here", he says, then immediately goes right back to examining the coins.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can you examine one coin from each stack? Try to get two that are as similar as possible, in denomination, etc... Make sure you remember where you got it from! Try smelling them, watching how they reflect light, looking for any markings, etc.... Put them back on the stacks they came from when you're finished.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ian: Can you examine one coin from each stack? Trav: Well yes, I'm sure I can.
Try to get two that are as similar as possible, in denomination, etc... Make sure you remember where you got it from! Trav: I have taken the top coin from each stack. I have two "5" coins that look almost identical, in fact I can't tell any difference in them.
Try smelling them, watching how they reflect light, looking for any markings, etc.... Put them back on the stacks they came from when you're finished. Trav: Ok, I've looked at them closely and replaced them, I could not tell a difference in the two coins.

The old guy appears to be taking a break. He has put all the coins he was holding into the stacks. He's now sitting upright mopping his sweaty brow with a rag. He looks at me and waves his hand around toward the coins on the floor. He once again says "Ones and tens, that's how they get out...yeah, ones and tens will get you out of here, that is for sure."
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

try ten clean coins on the 1 shelf and one dirty one on the 10 shelf. then try ten dirty coins on the 1 shelf and 1 clean one on the ten shelf.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if that doesn't work, try using the 1 and 10 denominations but only using clean coins. then try using the right denominations but only using dirty coins.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the coins different sizes? Based on denomination?

Do the coins have any marks on the edges? Are the edges smooth, and perfectly round? Notched? With several straight edges forming a sort of polygon?
Vae (Vaetrus)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try throwing some coins (the loose ones not in a pile or stack) onto both shelves? Does it get a reaction from the man?

While doing anything, watch for a reaction from the man.

If the stacks Image says get nothing.
Try stacks one coin under One and ten coins in a stack under Ten.
Try taking some coins from the stacks made by the man. How does he respond? Place the coins back now it you haven't.

Do the coins seem somehow different in the stacks? Anything at all? Divisable by a certian number, like 10? Or different shape? Or smell? Or taste? Or touch? Or symbol?
Ian (Image)
Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there more coins in either stack? If so, try taking ten coins from the larger stack to the ten shelf, and one from the other and putting them on the shelves. Does the old guy do anything if you take coins from either stack? If you put them back in the wrong stacks?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 4:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenn: try ten clean coins on the 1 shelf and one dirty one on the 10 shelf. then try ten dirty coins on the 1 shelf and 1 clean one on the ten shelf. Trav: Ok (does this). Nothing happens.

if that doesn't work, try using the 1 and 10 denominations but only using clean coins. then try using the right denominations but only using dirty coins. Trav: Ok (does this). Nothing.

Ian: Are any of the coins different sizes? Based on denomination? Trav: No, all coins are the same size (circumference and thickness).

Do the coins have any marks on the edges? Are the edges smooth, and perfectly round? Notched? With several straight edges forming a sort of polygon? Trav: All the coins have a ribbed edge like a US quarter, and are slightly larger than a quarter.

Vae: Try throwing some coins (the loose ones not in a pile or stack) onto both shelves? Does it get a reaction from the man? Trav: I did this, and the man glanced up at me once, almost like I was bothering him. He didn't seem to be really interested in what I was doing.

While doing anything, watch for a reaction from the man. Trav: Check

If the stacks Image says get nothing.
Try stacks one coin under One and ten coins in a stack under Ten. Trav: Ok (does this). Nothing happens, and the man once again glanced up at me for only a second or two then went back to sorting.
Try taking some coins from the stacks made by the man. How does he respond? Trav: He looks at the stack as I take coins from it, but does not say anything and continues sorting as soon as I walk away from him.
Place the coins back now it you haven't. Trav: Ok (places the coins back).

Do the coins seem somehow different in the stacks? Trav: Well, I still think that one stack is for relatively clean coins with a few marred ones, and the other for mostly dirty/old coins with a few clean ones.
Anything at all? Divisable by a certian number, like 10? Trav: I don't think so
Or different shape? Trav: No, all coins are the same size and shape
Or taste? Trav: Sick! I'm not about to lick these things...
Or smell? Or touch? Or symbol? Trav: These all are seemingly consistent with all the coins.

Ian: Are there more coins in either stack? Trav: On the table? Yes, one stack has maybe 40 or 50 coins,the other stack about 8 or 9 coins.
If so, try taking ten coins from the larger stack to the ten shelf, and one from the other and putting them on the shelves. Trav: Ok (does this). This draws a little more attention from the man, but I can't tell if he's really interested in what I'm doing or watching where I take the coins.
Does the old guy do anything if you take coins from either stack? If you put them back in the wrong stacks? Trav: No - so far I've put any coin back where I got it. The man has not seemed to resist my taking coins from his stacks as yet.