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Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the point she is trying to make that using medicines is an OK way to prolong your life? has someone previously said to her that it isn't 'natural' to use medicines routinely? or has someone said that it must be better to live your life without taking medicines? and she is making a point that for some people at least using medicines routinely is necessary? or important?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 09:56 pm:

is the point she is trying to make that using medicines is an OK way to prolong your life? noish has someone previously said to her that it isn't 'natural' to use medicines routinely? no or has someone said that it must be better to live your life without taking medicines? no and she is making a point that for some people at least using medicines routinely is necessary? yesish or important? see previous answer
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have to do with prescription drugs as opposed to OTC drugs? with name-brand drugs as opposed to generic drugs? Does it have to do with getting a doctor's permission to take a prescription drug? With the hassle of getting a doctor's prescription and then taking it to a pharmacy?

Would she still be able to make her point if she just obtained some insulin but didn't use it?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 09:28 am:

Does this have to do with prescription drugs as opposed to OTC drugs? no with name-brand drugs as opposed to generic drugs? noDoes it have to do with getting a doctor's permission to take a prescription drug? no With the hassle of getting a doctor's prescription and then taking it to a pharmacy? no

Would she still be able to make her point if she just obtained some insulin but didn't use it?Remember, she's only ptretending to be diabetic. But she has to pretend to use insulin, not just to obtain it

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Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Electra taking something like methadone, for instance to come off of a heroin addiction? But she pretends it is insulin because of the negative views that people often have of someone who has been addicted to drugs?

Does she believe that people who are on hard drugs should be entitled to free sterile needles? So she pretends to need the needles for insulin injections to provide people with a neutral or sympathetic "face" on the necessity for free needles?
Valiko Mizandari (Mimino)
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the situation in which she pretends to inject herself the insulin occur outdoors? indoors? in a means of transport? in a public place? in an airport building? (did the airport security not let her pass because of the injection needles she was carrying with her?)
Relevant from where she got the insulin?
Does she want to show how uncomfortable it is for diabetics when they have to inject themselves insulin several times a day? and that there should be a better solution?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mosquito (Mosquito) on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 03:22 am:

Is Electra taking something like methadone, for instance to come off of a heroin addiction? no But she pretends it is insulin because of the negative views that people often have of someone who has been addicted to drugs? no

Does she believe that people who are on hard drugs should be entitled to free sterile needles? irrel So she pretends to need the needles for insulin injections to provide people with a neutral or sympathetic "face" on the necessity for free needles? no

By Valiko Mizandari (Mimino) on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 03:30 pm:

does the situation in which she pretends to inject herself the insulin occur outdoors? false assumption--I never said she engages in an act of pretend-injecting, When she pretends to be diabetic, she is more likely to be indoors than outdoors indoors? see previous answer in a means of transport? no in a public place? yope in an airport building? no (did the airport security not let her pass because of the injection needles she was carrying with her? no)
Relevant from where she got the insulin? false assumption
Does she want to show how uncomfortable it is for diabetics when they have to inject themselves insulin several times a day? no and that there should be a better solution? no
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

should we be finding out exactly how she pretends to use insulin?
does she just say that she uses it? does she ask for facilities to use it? does she ask for a prescription for it? does she try to buy it?
does she ever actually possess any insulin?
does she ever possess injection equipment?

the relevant political view she holds:
does it relate to personal freedom? to entitlement to healthcare? to some aspect of welfare benefits? to the way people with illnesses are treated? does it relate in any way to financial issues? to health issues?

does she do this pretending as a result of being denied something? or seeing someone else being denied something? or seeing someone else gain a benefit she can't get?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 08:39 pm:

should we be finding out exactly how she pretends to use insulin?see next answer
does she just say that she uses it? yes does she ask for facilities to use it? no does she ask for a prescription for it? no does she try to buy it? no
does she ever actually possess any insulin? no
does she ever possess injection equipment? no

the relevant political view she holds:
does it relate to personal freedom? yope to entitlement to healthcare? no to some aspect of welfare benefits? no to the way people with illnesses are treated? noish does it relate in any way to financial issues? no to health issues? yes

does she do this pretending as a result of being denied something? no or seeing someone else being denied something? no or seeing someone else gain a benefit she can't get? no
Ian (Image)
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When she pretends to be diabetic, is she.... at home? In somebody else's home? At work? In a hotel? In a store? A pharmacy? In a doctor's office? A hospital? A restaurant? A recreation centre/gym/whatever?

Relevant that insulin is a presciption drug in the States? That it isn't in Canada? This has been quite annoying for me... I was vacationing in the States with my family, and I didn't bring enough insulin, so we had to go home early to get some...
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ian (Image) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 08:13 pm:

When she pretends to be diabetic, is she.... at home? noIn somebody else's home? no At work? possibly In a hotel? no In a store? possibly A pharmacy? noIn a doctor's office? no A hospital? no A restaurant? unlikelyA recreation centre/gym/whatever? possibly

Relevant that insulin is a presciption drug in the States? no That it isn't in Canada? no This has been quite annoying for me... I was vacationing in the States with my family, and I didn't bring enough insulin, so we had to go home early to get some... Could ypu have gotten ypur doctor to call a prescription in to a US pharmacy??
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

earlier you answered:

Does she inject insulin into herself? with 'yes'.

Then later:
does she ever actually possess any insulin? no
does she ever possess injection equipment? no

Sooo - is this correct?
Is the whole of the pretending that she says she is going to inject herself with insulin? or that she says she needs to inject herself with insulin?

does she do this as a response to someone saying something about medicines? about health? is there a relevant sign that she sees before she does this? something that prohibits some action?

is the situation that there is some sort of rule which, if followed, would discriminate against someone who needs insulin? and she brings attention to this by saying she needs insulin?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOOOPERRRRRRRRRRALERTTTTT!!!!Does she inject insulin into herself? yes the answer should be no. She only PRETENDS that she sometimes injects insulin into herself
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 10:13 pm:

earlier you answered:

Does she inject insulin into herself? with 'yes'. That was a BLLOOOOPERRRR. See above BLOOOOPERRALERTT!!!!!!

Then later:
does she ever actually possess any insulin? no
does she ever possess injection equipment? no

Sooo - is this correct? Except for the BLOOOOOPERRRRRR
Is the whole of the pretending that she says she is going to inject herself with insulin? see next answer or that she says she needs to inject herself with insulin? yes

does she do this as a response to someone saying something about medicines? yesish about health? more about medicines is there a relevant sign that she sees before she does this? yes something that prohibits some action? no

is the situation that there is some sort of rule which, if followed, would discriminate against someone who needs insulin? no, but ORT and she brings attention to this by saying she needs insulin? no but ORT
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cost of the insulin relevant?
If so, the actual cost of producing it? or the actual cost that the patient would pay for it?
Ian (Image)
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could ypu have gotten ypur doctor to call a prescription in to a US pharmacy?? Maybe... it didn't occur to us at the time... We were planing to go back to Canada later that day anyway, so...

Was she protesting the lack of a clean & private place to give her injections? The lack of somewhere safe/cold/whatever to store her insulin?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see that the cost is not relevant.

Are the research and manufacturing methods of insulin relevant? Animal testing?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:48 pm:

Is the cost of the insulin relevant?no
If so, the actual cost of producing it? no or the actual cost that the patient would pay for it? no

By Ian (Image) on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:04 am:

Could ypu have gotten ypur doctor to call a prescription in to a US pharmacy?? Maybe... it didn't occur to us at the time... We were planing to go back to Canada later that day anyway, so...

Was she protesting the lack of a clean & private place to give her injections? no The lack of somewhere safe/cold/whatever to store her insulin? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:08 am:

I see that the cost is not relevant.

Are the research and manufacturing methods of insulin relevant? no Animal testing? yes

This is enpough for me to declare a
*****SPOILER**********
I'm Electra, & once when I was at an off-campus housing office at a British university, I saw a poster with a picture of a dog being experimented on & the message, "One more argument against animal research." So I pointed to myself & said to the person who had the poster over her desk, "One more argument for animal research. I'm diabetic. How do you think insulin was discovered?" I don't really hope that if animal research is abolished, all anti-vivisectionists die from diseases that animal research could have shown how to cure. But it would be poetic justice. I think animal research on life-threatening and/or disabling diseases is an ABSOLUTE MORAL IMPERATIVE. As for animal research on cosmetics, I'm inclined to favor that too, although I wouldn't call it an absolute moral imperative. Thanks foer solving the puzzle, Lynne, & please direct those clever lateral minds to my new puzzle at the bottom of the page.
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

n.B. My point here was made much better by an AIDS patient who wore a T-shirt saying, "Laboratory rats' rights over my dead body."
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yep - genetically engineered Chinese hamster ovaries contributed to my daughter's health for many years. She no longer needs such medication, but she wouldn't be as well today if it wasn't for them.
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I disagree. Pro or contra animal research is not so much to do with moral, it's about pragmatism. We humans have the opportunity to prolong, extend, improve our lives by means of killing animals, so we do it. Animals (with a few notable exceptions) don't have the opportunity to do the same with us, so they don't. There is actually not much difference whether you use an animal's body as resource for producing medicine, or eat its meat. But I don't know of any consistent justification of the idea why a human life should be of higher (or equal, or lower) value than an animal's life, except for acknowledging that each species might care for it's own prosperity first. -- Nice puzzle, however.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If we take it as a given that it is morally repugnant to disregard harm done to members of another race when advancing the interests of one's own race, why is it a moral imperative (or even morally acceptable) to disregard harm done to members of another species when advancing the interests of one's own species?