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Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Easier than...it would otherwise have been? Was it known before the job was started that it would be easier? Soon after? During the middle? end? Not until the job was finished?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mosquito (Mosquito) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

Easier than...it would otherwise have been? yes Was it known before the job was started that it would be easier? no Soon after? fairly During the middle? no end? no Not until the job was finished? yes
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not clear that this last series of answers has identified when it was discovered that the job had become easier... Perhaps I am all in a muddle and getting nowhere :(. Probably best to see if someone else can make a bit more progress...
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My apologies for engendering confusion :( Since what we were doing didn't take all that long, it was clear soon after we finished (a) that what we had done had been easier than it might have been and (b) that our future work in respect of what we were doing would be easier than it might have been. So we knew "fairly soon after the start" and also "soon after we had finished", but we did not know in the middle or at the end.
Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there an automated process underway before and during the five minutes. . . if you had begun work earlier, there would have been more work to do?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:13 pm:

Was there an automated process underway before and during the five minutes no . . . if you had begun work earlier, there would have been more work to do? but yes, as it turned out
Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A helpful stranger involved?
Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that you were debugging?
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About future tasks being easier as well -- did this require that you actually had to do something to make this be true? related to the start time? or would they be easier regardless?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:19 pm:

A helpful stranger involved? although Real Programmers do not have friends, so that anyone involved would necessarily be a stranger, they do not need help either. Just beer.

By Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:19 pm:

Relevant that you were debugging? yes, although it is more relevant what we were debugging than how we were debugging it
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've lost the plot. Did this five-minute delay mean that you were starting the job after midnight rather than before? Did some property of the new date make the bug easier to spot?

Did you save yourselves more than five minutes of work by starting five minutes late (so that you finished earlier than you would have if you had not been delayed)? less than five minutes? exactly five minutes?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mosquito (Mosquito) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:20 pm:

About future tasks being easier as well -- did this require that you actually had to do something to make this be true? there were other relevant things that needed doing after we had finished the task at hand. These were, as it turned out, also easier because we had started what we were doing five minutes late. related to the start time? see above or would they be easier regardless? no

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:34 pm:


I've lost the plot. Don't worry. There wasn't much of one to begin with. Did this five-minute delay mean that you were starting the job after midnight rather than before? yes Did some property of the new date make the bug easier to spot? I am not sure what you mean by "property of the new date". If you mean "intrinsic property" - that is, the task would have been easier on November 1st than October 31st simply because it was November 1st, then no. If you mean some "extrinsic property" of the date - that is, the task would have been easier on All Saints Day than All Hallows Eve because we would have had the saints on our side, then yesish

Did you save yourselves more than five minutes of work by starting five minutes late this one (so that you finished earlier than you would have if you had not been delayed)? less than five minutes? exactly five minutes?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help for us to know on what dates this took place? If so, on what dates did this take place?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 08:50 pm:

Would it help for us to know on what dates this took place? possibly If so, on what dates did this take place? We were in the pub on 5th April 1982. We began work on 6th April 1982.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that this was shortly before Easter (which apparently fell on 11th April in 1982)? Is it relevant that you started work on a Tuesday instead of a Monday?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 09:06 pm:

Is it relevant that this was shortly before Easter (which apparently fell on 11th April in 1982)? no Is it relevant that you started work on a Tuesday instead of a Monday? no
Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was your work related to "time" in some way?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mezzoforte (Mezzoforte) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:35 pm:

Was your work related to "time" in some way? not in any relevant way on this occasion, but...
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the overnight change simply the passing from a day that was not relevantly significant to one that was? Was it the only day in April that was significant in this way? in 1982? in the 80s? the 20th century? the history of the world?

If several days previously the Government had officially changed the calendar, so that 5 April 1982 was now the first day of a month called "Month of the Birth of Scary Monsters" in the year 1 of the new regime, would your job still have become easier?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mosquito (Mosquito) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:57 pm:

Was the overnight change simply the passing from a day that was not relevantly significant to one that was? well, both days were significant in the sense that one was the last day of state of affairs X and the other the first day of state of affairs Y Was it the only day in April that was significant in this way? yes in 1982? yes in the 80s? the 20th century? the history of the world? strictly, this one, but there have been days on which similar, though not identical, things have occurred

If several days previously the Government had officially changed the calendar, so that 5 April 1982 was now the first day of a month called "Month of the Birth of Scary Monsters" in the year 1 of the new regime, would your job still have become easier? there is more than a grain of truth in this rather fanciful notion, so I will not dismiss the question entirely. No, with a very faint trace of ish :)
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is state of affairs Y still in force? If not, did it remain in force for hours? days? weeks? months? years?

Was the state of affairs with reference to:

the company?
the computer?
the programmers?
the program?
the pub?
the Worshipful Society of Apothecaries?
SETI?
other people?
organisations?
equipment?
objects?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Mosquito (Mosquito) on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 11:35 pm:

Is state of affairs Y still in force? no If not, did it remain in force for hours? days? weeks? months? years? this one

Was the state of affairs with reference to:

the company? yes
the computer? no
the programmers? no
the program? yes
the pub? yes
the Worshipful Society of Apothecaries? yes
SETI? no
other people? yes
organisations? yes
equipment? yes
objects? yes