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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - March 2006 » [woubit] One never knows, do one? « Previous Next »

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Archive through January 19, 2006Katy22 1-19-06  10:24 am
Archive through January 25, 2006David Burn22 1-25-06  10:05 pm
Archive through February 04, 2006Char Fryck22 2-04-06  8:47 pm
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Archive through March 20, 2006Howard Wilde22 3-20-06  1:42 pm
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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 01:42 pm:

Is it a spoonerism? no
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it a comic re-phrasing of a well-known phrase or saying? If so, does the word "butterfly" come into it somewhow? Just to recap: it's strictly NOT a pun? BUT it involves a very specific form of words, or else it wouldn't work?

Eg. "Covering ends with G" could be pronounced as "covering hens with ghee" (sort of) .... is this the right ballpark?
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has this turned into a dream? :)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:19 pm:

So is it a comic re-phrasing of a well-known phrase or saying? this is very much on the right lines If so, does the word "butterfly" come into it somewhow? no Just to recap: it's strictly NOT a pun? BUT it involves a very specific form of words, or else it wouldn't work? entirely correct. A rephrasing of a particular phrase is involved. That phrase is very well known to a certain group of people, about whom you would do well to enquire...

Eg. "Covering ends with G" could be pronounced as "covering hens with ghee" (sort of) .... is this the right ballpark? yes indeed, but...

By Katy (Katy) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:27 pm:

Has this turned into a dream? not yet :)
Laura Kozma (Lkozma)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which group...
Farmers? Astronauts? Cooks? Pilots? Politicians? Teachers?

Are any of these words (or variant) in the rephrasing:
Baste? Hen? Butter? Flight? Chicken?

Are any of these words (or variant) in the original phrase:
Baste? Hen? Butter? Flight? Chicken?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the original and rephrased forms in the same language?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Laura Kozma (Lkozma) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 07:10 pm:

Which group...
Farmers? Astronauts? Cooks? Pilots? Politicians? Teachers? the group includes people of all of these professions except astronauts

Are any of these words (or variant) in the rephrasing:
Baste? Hen? Butter? Flight? Chicken? none of them is in the original phrase. The words "butter" and "hens" are in the rephrased version

Are any of these words (or variant) in the original phrase:
Baste? Hen? Butter? Flight? Chicken? see above

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 07:34 pm:


Are the original and rephrased forms in the same language? no. Excellent question :)
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One is Dutch?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 09:08 pm:

One is Dutch? one is not Dutch. And neither is the other.
Stephen (Stevish)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific group of people involved relevant?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Stephen (Stevish) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:30 am:

Is the specific group of people involved relevant? the common characteristic of the specific group of people is entirely relevant, yes
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Since it's difficult to apply butter to flying hens - get some exercise and you won't get fat!" ???
Laura Kozma (Lkozma)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the common characteristic the language that they speak?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since nobody else has done the old routine:

Is the non-English language:

French?
Afrikaans? (sorry but "hens" just has a Dutch feel)
German?
Italian?
Spanish?
Polish?
Greek?
Turkish?
Gaelic?
Russian?
Norwegian?
Danish?
Swedish?

Is it the Icelandic shotputter Goansmir Hensingboter?
Laura Kozma (Lkozma)
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, I think you're right:

"Go and smear hens in butter"!
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 09:27 am:

"Since it's difficult to apply butter to flying hens - get some exercise and you won't get fat!" ??? no, but another very fine piece of thinking

By Laura Kozma (Lkozma) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 04:45 pm:

Is the common characteristic the language that they speak? indeed

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 05:18 pm:

Since nobody else has done the old routine:

Is the non-English language:

French?
Afrikaans? (sorry but "hens" just has a Dutch feel)
German?
Italian?
Spanish?
Polish?
Greek?
Turkish?
Gaelic?
Russian?
Norwegian?
Danish?
Swedish? it is none of those, I am afraid

Is it the Icelandic shotputter Goansmir Hensingboter? no, but this is one of the most ingenious wrong answers I have ever seen to a puzzle on this forum :)

By Laura Kozma (Lkozma) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 05:22 pm:

Ah, I think you're right:

"Go and smear hens in butter"! unfortunately not
Laura Kozma (Lkozma)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to make sure here:
The original phrase is not in English?
The rephrased version is in English?

Will we be able to solve this puzzle if we don't know the non-English language? Would it help to guess the other language?

Is the language listed on this page: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

(It would be funny if the other language is Elmer Fudd or Klingon!)
Laura Kozma (Lkozma)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, wasn't there at least one episode of Bugs Bunny that used the phrase "One never knows, do one?" Is this relevant?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Laura Kozma (Lkozma) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:11 am:

Just to make sure here:
The original phrase is not in English? correct
The rephrased version is in English? also correct

Will we be able to solve this puzzle if we don't know the non-English language? yes, since googling is permitted in this puzzle Would it help to guess the other language? yes

Is the language listed on this page: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en yes, and to save you having to copy the list here, the language in question is Welsh

(It would be funny if the other language is Elmer Fudd or Klingon!) indeed :)

By Laura Kozma (Lkozma) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:14 am:

Hmm, wasn't there at least one episode of Bugs Bunny that used the phrase "One never knows, do one?" perhaps - it was the catchphrase of the great Fats Waller Is this relevant? no
Stephen (Stevish)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant characteristic of the people height?
weight?
nationality?
skin color?
anything about hair?
mouth?
Nose?
ears?
eyes?
head?
legs?
arms?
Phalanges?
atheletic abilities?
religion?
what day their garbage comes?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Stephen (Stevish) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 01:08 am:

Is the relevant characteristic of the people height?
weight?
nationality? this one - the relevant characteristic of these people is that they are Welsh
skin color?
anything about hair?
mouth?
Nose?
ears?
eyes?
head?
legs?
arms?
Phalanges?
atheletic abilities?
religion?
what day their garbage comes?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK: a common Welsh phrase which might be pronounced to sound like something silly in English, involving butter and hens.

In the English sentence/phrase, does the word "butter" precede the word "hens"?

Is the English saying a complete sentence? If so, is "hens" the subject? Is "butter" the subject?

Is the Welsh saying a proper name? Is rugby player Gavin Henson relevant?

In the Welsh phrase, is the syllable corresponding to "hens" aspirated, as it in English?

In the Welsh phrase, is the vowel corresponding to the "u" in butter actually spelt "u" in Welsh? Or Y? Or W?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 01:00 pm:

OK: a common Welsh phrase well, it is not a "common phrase" in the sense of an everyday saying. It is used in a particular context. which might be pronounced to sound like something silly in English, involving butter and hens. exactly and precisely so

In the English sentence/phrase, does the word "butter" precede the word "hens"? yes

Is the English saying a complete sentence? yes If so, is "hens" the subject? no - they are the object Is "butter" the subject? no - it is the main verb

Is the Welsh saying a proper name? no Is rugby player Gavin Henson relevant? yesish, but this may mislead - he is not relevant because of anything to do with his name

In the Welsh phrase, is the syllable corresponding to "hens" aspirated, as it in English? no

In the Welsh phrase, is the vowel corresponding to the "u" in butter actually spelt "u" in Welsh? Or Y? Or W? the sound is roughly the same as that of the short "u" in "butter". The vowel "u" in Welsh is actually pronounced like a long "e" in English; the Welsh vowel is in fact a "y".
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah. Does the Welsh phrase contain the word "byth"? or "ysbyty"?

Is the Welsh phrase connected with rugby? With any sports? With the Six Nations Championship? Is it a topical phrase? Is the Welsh expression a complete sentence?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 06:54 pm:

Ah. Does the Welsh phrase contain the word "byth"? or "ysbyty"? no

Is the Welsh phrase connected with rugby? sometimes With any sports? at other times With the Six Nations Championship? with Wales's matches, yes Is it a topical phrase? not really Is the Welsh expression a complete sentence? yes
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any connection with "Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau"?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 09:10 pm:

Any connection with "Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau"? yes, indeed :)
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I GOT IT!!!!

Marvellous.

Though I admit I improvised my own version at first, beginning "Lard, Lard...."

Mr Nigel Jenkins, no less. If only I'd known that when I had to sing it at college.

At last I can sleep tonight, unhaunted by buttery pullets. Thank you, thank you.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 09:45 pm:


I GOT IT!!!! indeed you did Well done, good boyo :)

***** SPOILER *****

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of My Fathers) is the unofficial Welsh National Anthem, often sung at international functions (such as rugby matches) instead of or in addition to their official anthem, which is God Save the Queen.

The first verse and the chorus are:

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Dros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed.

Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.


It is utterly impossible for non-Welsh speakers to work out how to pronounce any of these words. Thus, supporters of rival sporting teams who wish to show courtesy by joining in the singing of the Welsh anthem are unable to do so by reading from the programme, even if they know the tune.

To this end, a Swansea poet named Nigel Jenkins produced a phonetic version in English that makes almost no sense, but that sounds very like the original. Next time you visit the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, you do not have to stare at the ground and shuffle your feet while the Welsh anthem is played. Instead, you can lift up your voice with the best of them and sing, to the splendid tune Glan Rhondda:

My hen laid a haddock, one hand oiled a flea,
Glad farts and centurions threw dogs in the sea;
I could stew a hare here and brandish Danís flan,
Donís ruddy bogís blocked up with sand.

Dad! Dad! Why donít you oil Auntie Glad?
Can whores appear in beer bottle pies?
O butter the hens as they fly!


The last line, of course, is the theme of this puzzle - a piece of practically impossible advice that is nonetheless useful.

Well done Howard, and thanks to all who joined in.

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