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Archive through March 09, 2006Torgeir Apeland22 3-09-06  5:25 am
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Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the yes that you said when Christiane asked whether the bodies were put in freezers for medical reasons was just so that they wouldn't rot?
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the people shot because they were a risk to the killer? Or to someone else?

Did the victims have a disease? Were they carrying a virus? Were the FF victims cooled down so that the disease could not spread?

If the killer did not have a gun, could he have killed his victims by other means or was it important that the victims were shot?

The FF victims were stored for later use? Did they want to use the whole bodies? Or parts of them?

Did the killer intend to kill the non-FF victims as well, or were they "mistakes"? Did he realize he killed too many?

Did the killings of FF and non-FF victims occur in a certain order? FF, non-FF, FF, non-FF and so on? All FF then all non-FF? All non-FF then all FF?

Were the killers human?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:15 am:


So the yes that you said when Christiane asked whether the bodies were put in freezers for medical reasons was just so that they wouldn't rot? No. That is part of it, but not all.

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:50 am:


Were the people shot because they were a risk to the killer? Noish Or to someone else? No

Did the victims have a disease? Yope
Were they carrying a virus? No
Were the FF victims cooled down so that the disease could not spread? No, FA

If the killer did not have a gun, could he have killed his victims by other means or was it important that the victims were shot? Most methods would do

The FF victims were stored for later use? Yes
Did they want to use the whole bodies? No Or parts of them? Yes

Did the killer intend to kill the non-FF victims as well, or were they "mistakes"? They were intentional
Did he realize he killed too many? FA

Did the killings of FF and non-FF victims occur in a certain order? No, quite arbitrarily FF, non-FF, FF, non-FF and so on? All FF then all non-FF? All non-FF then all FF? Any of these would do

Were the killers human? Yes. Well, you might argue the point and call them subhuman, but apart from that...
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the killer looking for organs? genetic material? limbs? skin? eyes? fingers? blood? plasma? spinal marrow?
Did he want the same part out of each of the bodies?
Was he some modern Dr. Frankenstein??

Did he need conserved material (FF) as well as rotten material (non-FF)?

Did the killer have a disease he hoped to cure with material from the bodies?

Did the killer introduce something (e.g. bacteria, DNA... ) into the bodies?

Did he ever use any of the stored bodies? If yes, did whatever he wanted to do work? At the first try? If no, was it too late for him to use the bodies? Or was there just no need to use them? Relevant?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the killer looking for organs? Yesish
genetic material? limbs? skin? eyes? Yope fingers? blood? plasma? spinal marrow? No to the others
Did he want the same part out of each of the bodies? Yes/Yope
Was he some modern Dr. Frankenstein?? Worse

Did he need conserved material (FF) as well as rotten material (non-FF)? No

Did the killer have a disease he hoped to cure with material from the bodies? Yope

Did the killer introduce something (e.g. bacteria, DNA... ) into the bodies? No

Did he ever use any of the stored bodies? Not in the way you seem to indicate here
If yes, did whatever he wanted to do work? It would have, if he hadn't gotten caught
At the first try? It would have ihhgc
If no, was it too late for him to use the bodies? Irrelevant/FA
Or was there just no need to use them? Relevant? Irrelevant

Several of these questions were terribly difficult to answer, as you're closing in on the idea, but still approach it at a tangent
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the killer driven by a need? by an obsession? greed? was he sane (well, apart from being a killer, that is)?
Did he want to sell the organs (, body parts, ...)?
Did he want the material for himself or for someone else?
Some weird anti-aging thing involved??
The thing he wanted to do with the body parts - was it something he would have done once? Something he would have done repeatedly? Like every day/week/...?
Would he have combined the body parts from his victims? Or would he have used one body part from one victim at a time?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the killer driven by a need? Yes
by an obsession? Noish
greed? Sort of
was he sane (well, apart from being a killer, that is)? You judge when you see the solution
Did he want to sell the organs (, body parts, ...)? No
Did he want the material for himself or for someone else? Yes
Some weird anti-aging thing involved?? No
The thing he wanted to do with the body parts - was it something he would have done once? Yes
Something he would have done repeatedly? Like every day/week/...? No to these
Would he have combined the body parts from his victims? No
Or would he have used one body part from one victim at a time? Noish/FA

We need a clarification here. The killer is a hit man. He is acting on behalf of someone else. In my answers, I've flitted to and fro between talking about the hit man as the killer, and his client as the killer
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, let's talk about the hit man and his client then.

Did the hit man act exactly as his client wanted him to? Did he take any liberties? Did the hit man know why he was hired to do the killings? Was there a relationship between the hit man and the client apart from person-A-hires-person-B-to-kill-some-people? Is this relevant?

Is the profession of the client relevant? Doctor? Surgeon?

Did the client and the victims have anything in common? Was there some event in the past which is important for this story? Exposure to certain chemicals? Radiation? Earlier treatment by a certain doctor? Were the victims earlier patients of the client?

Did the client intend to take only body parts of the FF victims?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, let's talk about the hit man and his client then.

Did the hit man act exactly as his client wanted him to? Yes
Did he take any liberties? No
Did the hit man know why he was hired to do the killings? Yes, but irrelevant
Was there a relationship between the hit man and the client apart from person-A-hires-person-B-to-kill-some-people? None relevant
Is this relevant? No

Is the profession of the client relevant? Doctor? Surgeon? Slightly, but you'll have a hard time guessing. Besides, it is debateable whether it should be called a "profession". And finally, it is not all that relevant.

Did the client and the victims have anything in common? Yope
Was there some event in the past which is important for this story? Yes. You can solve the puzzle without finding out about that, though.
Exposure to certain chemicals? Yes Radiation? No
Earlier treatment by a certain doctor? Were the victims earlier patients of the client? No to these

Did the client intend to take only body parts of the FF victims? Yes and FA
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are corneas or retinas relevant?
Could the same objective have been achieved if all the victims had been put into fridges or freezers?

Is it relevant that some victims are put in fridges and others in freezers? Or is it all for the purpose of 'cold storage'? (some colder than others)
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are corneas or retinas relevant? Yes
Could the same objective have been achieved if all the victims had been put into fridges or freezers? Noish - please specify

Is it relevant that some victims are put in fridges and others in freezers? Or is it all for the purpose of 'cold storage'? (some colder than others) No, general cold storage is the only relevant idea.
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the killer (the one who paid the hitman) wanted the retinas? Corneas? Of these people? To sell? Or use?

Could the same objective have been achieved if all the victims had been put into fridges or freezers?
What I meant was: was there a specific reason why some of the bodies were kept warmer? Did the killer want their retinas? Corneas?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the killer (the one who paid the hitman) wanted the retinas? No Corneas? Yope Of these people? Yes To sell? No Or use? Yope

Could the same objective have been achieved if all the victims had been put into fridges or freezers? Noish
What I meant was: was there a specific reason why some of the bodies were kept warmer? No Did the killer want their retinas? No Corneas? Yope
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction:
Could the same objective have been achieved if all the victims had been put into fridges or freezers? Yes
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the chemical they were exposed to harmful? a drug?
Did they inhale it? swallow it? Was it injected? Other?

Were the victims drug carriers (those people who swallow cocaine or other drugs in bags)?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the chemical they Not they. He. were exposed to harmful? Yes
a drug? No
Did they inhale it? swallow it? Was it injected? All no
Other? Yes

Were the victims drug carriers (those people who swallow cocaine or other drugs in bags)? No
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooops! Another correction. Only the hit man's client had been exposed to a chemical - noone else. This may be a bit misleading though.
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His skin was in contact with the chemical? An acid? It deformed his skin? His face? Blinded him?
Were his victims the ones responsible for his contact with the chemical? Was revenge the motive? Did he want to use the same chemical on his victims?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His skin was in contact with the chemical? An acid? It deformed his skin? His face? These are irrelevant
Blinded him? Yes
Were his victims the ones responsible for his contact with the chemical? Was revenge the motive? Did he want to use the same chemical on his victims? All no
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want to restore his eyesight? Was he only interested in the eyes of his victims? parts of the eyes? Eye lenses? Irises? Other parts?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want to restore his eyesight? Yes Was he only interested in the eyes of his victims? parts of the eyes? Eye lenses? Irises? Other parts?

We have established that the relevant part of the eyes are the corneas.
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want to get an operation? Did he want the corneas from his victims applied to his eyes? Has such an operation been done before? Was there no legal way for him to regain his eyesight?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he trying to increase the number of corneas available for transplant because there were people ahead of him on the transplant waiting list?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 02:37 pm:


Did he want to get an operation? Yes
Did he want the corneas from his victims applied to his eyes? Yesish
Has such an operation been done before? Not sure - the puzzle is from a novel
Was there no legal way for him to regain his eyesight? Yes but...

Was he trying to increase the number of corneas available for transplant because there were people ahead of him on the transplant waiting list? Yes, and...
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm...seems like someone ruthless enough to kill people to get their corneas would be ruthless enough to kill the people ahead of him in line...maybe that would be a little too obvious, though.

So no doctor would perform the surgery for him early (i. e. let him "cut in line") even if he provided his own, ah, materials?

Was he famous/infamous?

Let's see--he must be wealthy, since he was able to find out how many people were ahead of him and what they're matching requirements were, and then find people who had the matching requirements, and then try to set it up so that the matching "donors" were available in a timely fashion such that the people ahead of him could get their transplants, right?
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eye colour relevant?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Technically, eye colo(u)r is from the iris which is an exposed part of the choroid layer (Dryman, Hannah, any other doctors on the forum feel free to correct me here)--the cornea is part of the clear outer covering.
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm...seems like someone ruthless enough to kill people to get their corneas would be ruthless enough to kill the people ahead of him in line...maybe that would be a little too obvious, though. Maybe, but then again I am not a very sophisticated person.

************** SPOILER *****************

A mafia boss (Bob) had been blinded due to an unfortunate encounter with a rival boss and a vial of sulphuric acid. A surgeon with a private practice had developed a way of transplanting corneas from dead bodies, and offered to help Bob. However, Bob had to wait at the end of the line, waiting for people with organ donor cards to die. So he had his henchmen speed up the process, and shorten the line in order to achieve the same thing in a few weeks that would ordinarily have taken many years.

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