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Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A city experiences an epidemic of murders. Some of them are "ordinary" in the sense that the victims are found shot at various places, as opposed to others that have the bizarre detail in common that the victims are found in freezers and refrigerators.

Nothing is stolen from any of the victims, and none of them are known to have any enemies. They come from all sorts of background and social strata, and few, if any, of them know each other.

What is going on?
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the victims all died from being shot? By a gun / rifle? Were they all shot by the same person? Are the fridge-freezer victims found in their own appliances?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Katy (Katy) on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 12:26 pm:


So the victims all died from being shot? Yes
By a gun / rifle? Yes
Were they all shot by the same person? Irrelevant, but let's say yes
Are the fridge-freezer victims found in their own appliances? Most of them, but not necessarily all
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we divide the victims into the 2 groups - FF (i.e. fridge freezer) vics and ordinary vics?
Is that a suitable way to divide them?
Are any of the victims bodies' dismembered after they have been shot? Or are the FF victims found whole in the fridges/freezers?
Was the choice of who to kill pre-decided? Or were they simply in the wrong place?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we divide the victims into the 2 groups - FF (i.e. fridge freezer) vics and ordinary vics? But of course (:
Is that a suitable way to divide them? Yes
Are any of the victims bodies' dismembered after they have been shot? No
Or are the FF victims found whole in the fridges/freezers? Yes
Was the choice of who to kill pre-decided? Yes
Or were they simply in the wrong place? No
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They don't know each other, but do the individuals know their killer?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They don't know each other, but do the individuals know their killer? No
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the fridges and freezers on when they were put in them? Was the intention to preserve the bodies?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were all the victims shot wherever they happened to be, and those who were shot near suitably sized fridges/freezers were then placed in them? or did the murderer decide in advance which victims would be FF and which would be ordinary?
Was anyone shot while already inside a fridge/freezer?
Roughly how many FF victims were there: 1? 2? 5? 10? more? how many ordinary victims?
Roughly how many of the victims were found in fridges/freezers: 10%? 20%? 30%? etc.
Are all the victims humans? adults?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Katy (Katy) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:27 am:


Were the fridges and freezers on when they were put in them? Was the intention to preserve the bodies? Both yes

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:45 am:


Were all the victims shot wherever they happened to be, and those who were shot near suitably sized fridges/freezers were then placed in them? No
or did the murderer decide in advance which victims would be FF and which would be ordinary? Yes
Was anyone shot while already inside a fridge/freezer? No, or if so, only by fantastic coincidence
Roughly how many FF victims were there: 1? 2? 5? 10? more? how many ordinary victims? Let's say 5 and 6 respectively
Roughly how many of the victims were found in fridges/freezers: 10%? 20%? 30%? Approximately 50/50, but could vary considerably in both directions
Are all the victims humans? adults? Both yes (but again, not necessarily)
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where and when this is set?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where and when this is set? Noish. Present day. Needs to be within the latest 25 years or so, I think. Most western countries would do.
Katy (Katy)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the choice of who to shoot was pre-decided? Would pre-determined be a better description? Do we need to find out what all the victims have in common? And then what is different about the FF victims? Scientific testing relevant? Was it planned to remove the victims from the fridges and freezers at a later date? Were the non-FF victims not 'good' enough to be preserved?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the choice of who to shoot was pre-decided? Yes
Would pre-determined be a better description? Hm. Depends on how you look at it.
Do we need to find out what all the victims have in common? Yes - but slightly FA
And then what is different about the FF victims? Yesish, but FA
Scientific testing relevant? No
Was it planned to remove the victims from the fridges and freezers at a later date? Yesish
Were the non-FF victims not 'good' enough to be preserved? Incorrect
Alice Black (Tink)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were all victims human?
was there a plot to kill a certain group? who all had something in common?
Were the bodies in the fridges/freezers intended for use of some sort?
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, I'm new to this. Let me give it a try...

In what time interval (roughly) did the murders happen? (1 Minute? Hour? Day? Week? Month? Year? Decade? Longer?) Is this relevant?

Did they select the victims because they thought they had a certain characteristic? Did they then search the bodies and find out that only a certain fraction of the victims really had that characteristic?

Were the victims dead immediately after the shooting?

Were the victims put into the fridges/freezers by the killers?

Did the series of murders end? If yes - Why? Because the murderer was no longer able to commit any more murders (e.g. in prison)? Or did the murderer deliberately stop killing people?

Were the bodies in the fridges/freezers preserved for eating? For medical purposes? As some sort of evidence? For a museum??
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alice Black (Tink) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 03:40 pm:


Were all victims human? Yes
was there a plot to kill a certain group? Yope
who all had something in common? Yope
Were the bodies in the fridges/freezers intended for use of some sort? Yes

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 04:17 pm:


Hi, I'm new to this. Let me give it a try... Hi, and welcome! I'm honored!

In what time interval (roughly) did the murders happen? (1 Minute? Hour? Day? Week? Month? Year? Decade? Longer?) Is this relevant? 2-3 months

Did they select the victims because they thought they had a certain characteristic? Yes Did they then search the bodies and find out that only a certain fraction of the victims really had that characteristic? No

Were the victims dead immediately after the shooting? Yes

Were the victims put into the fridges/freezers by the killers? Yes

Did the series of murders end? Yes If yes - Why?
Because the murderer was no longer able to commit any more murders (e.g. in prison)? No
Or did the murderer deliberately stop killing people? Yes

Were the bodies in the fridges/freezers preserved for eating? For medical purposes? This As some sort of evidence? For a museum??
Lauri Ahonen (Klaivu)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are victims' genders relevant? Are the frozen one men and the
unfrozen women? Gametes relevant?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are victims' genders relevant? Are the frozen one men and the
unfrozen women? No to these
Gametes relevant? I do not know who/what "Gametes" is/are, so probably not.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was they all murdered so that they could be used for medical research?
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the FF victims simply all happen to have fridges and freezers that were actually big enough or convenient enough for the killer to use? Whereas older fridges and freezers (older than 25 years?) really weren't big enough to accomodate people unless it was a restaurant or butcher's locker?
And these days most people have large full size fridges if they move into a newer residence?
Was the killer trying to take advantage of the fact that chilling the bodies makes it impossible to determine time of death?
The victims... all human, right? Both genders? male? Female? All ages? Mostly if not all adults?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 09:05 pm:


Was they all murdered so that they could be used for medical research? There have been scandals in scientific ommunities from time to time, but, come on! No.

By Lisa (Dlcygnet) on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 09:45 pm:


Did the FF victims simply all happen to have fridges and freezers that were actually big enough or convenient enough for the killer to use? No
Whereas older fridges and freezers (older than 25 years?) really weren't big enough to accomodate people unless it was a restaurant or butcher's locker? This could be a factor I suppose, but not the main point
And these days most people have large full size fridges if they move into a newer residence? As above
Was the killer trying to take advantage of the fact that chilling the bodies makes it impossible to determine time of death? No
The victims... all human, right? Both genders? male? Female? All ages? Mostly if not all adults? All correct