| Author | Message | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
It's been way too long since I posted a puzzle, so without further ado... Title: Morituri te salutant Difficulty: Easy Type: True Story Story: The man allowed them to circle six times before putting a stop to it. To Solve: Why did the man allow them to circle six times? Specialized Knowledge needed: None needed Good luck! | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
|
Them :- Human? Adult? Male? A | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
Hi again! Was the man the only one who could put a stop to it? It=the circling by them? something that caused the circling? Them: humans? humans in vehicles? vehicles without humans? animals? humans on animals? insects? fish? birds? something else? How many "Them": please insert LTPF List of Positive Integers? Would they have circled indefinitely if he hadn't put a stop to it? Circled until something specific occured? circled for a specific length of time? Were they circling the man? someone else? something else? something animate? something inanimate? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Mycroft Them :- Human? Adult? Male? Yes, yes, and yes. And to save you from asking the obvious question, there was 3 or 4 of them -- exact numbers not really relevant. A Rabrab Hi again! Hi!  Was the man the only one who could put a stop to it? No It=the circling by them? This one something that caused the circling? Them: humans? Yes humans in vehicles? Yes, with a tiny FA vehicles without humans? animals? humans on animals? insects? fish? birds? something else? No to the rest How many "Them": please insert LTPF List of Positive Integers? Around 3 to 4 -- source material is at home, and I'm at work right now. And as I indicated to Mycroft above, exact numbers not really relevant. Would they have circled indefinitely if he hadn't put a stop to it? Probably not, but let's just say that it probably would have stopped at a number much much larger than six. Circled until something specific occured? Yes, for svv of "something specific occured" circled for a specific length of time? See previous answer -- similar idea. Were they circling the man? someone else? something else? This one something animate? something inanimate? This one | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Roundabout or other circular traffic area place?(People get soooooooooooooooooooooooo confused in our roundabout that just got put in nearby) Vehichle car? Boat? Train? Plane? Ballon? Are not all the people in the vehicle, for the slight FA? Or that there was just one vehicle? | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Oh, and is the man who stopped them a cop? Is he in the middle of their circling? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Solane Roundabout or other circular traffic area place? No (People get soooooooooooooooooooooooo confused in our roundabout that just got put in nearby) Heheheh Vehichle car? This one Boat? Train? Plane? Ballon? Are not all the people in the vehicle, for the slight FA? Or that there was just one vehicle? This one...slight FA removed! Solane, part deux Oh, and is the man who stopped them a cop? No Is he in the middle of their circling? No...nothing so prosaic as this, I'm afraid. This is the lateral puzzles forum, after all.  | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
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Is he outside their circling? In the car? Are they lost? | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
My apologies for going for a quick solve... | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Is he outside their circling? Yes In the car? No Are they lost? No | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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My apologies for going for a quick solve... No apologies are necessary. It's always a good idea to try for the quick kills, because you never know when you may be right. | ||
| Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
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Hey Haen. Is there anything relevant to the puzzle about the inanimate thing around which they are circling? Do they know each other (I mean, do they know the people in the other cars)? Are they all circling for the same reason? Is the occupation of the circle-stopper relevant? | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
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Are "they" on a racetrack? Is the car functioning properly? Had "they" previously decided what it would take to make them stop circling? How long (timewise) they would circle? How long (distance-wise) they would circle? Could they stop circling and drive in some other pattern if they wished? Did He put a stop to it by blocking their path? with his body? with a gate? with some non-gate single item? with a group of items? by turning something off or on? signalling to them? (waving a flag? lighting a light?) talking to them? gesturing to? at? them? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Bodo Hey Haen. Hiya Tim. Long time no see. How have you been? Is there anything relevant to the puzzle about the inanimate thing around which they are circling? YES -- the identity of the "inanimate thing" in question is very relevant indeed! Do they know each other (I mean, do they know the people in the other cars)? FA -- as been established, there are no other cars. Only one car involved. As for knowing each other: the people in the car knew each other. The one who put a stop to the circling did not know them. Are they all circling for the same reason? Yes Is the occupation of the circle-stopper relevant? Yes Rabrab Are "they" on a racetrack? No, but good thinking. Is the car functioning properly? Yes Had "they" previously decided what it would take to make them stop circling? Not explicitly stated in the source material, but I think everyone relevant to the puzzle situation would answer No. How long (timewise) they would circle? See previous answer How long (distance-wise) they would circle? See previous answer -- sorry if my answer seem so cumbersome, but there is a reason why I worded it the way I did. Could they stop circling and drive in some other pattern if they wished? Well, yes, but... Did He put a stop to it by blocking their path? with his body? with a gate? with some non-gate single item? with a group of items? by turning something off or on? signalling to them? (waving a flag? lighting a light?) talking to them? gesturing to? at? them? Again, this isn't explicitly stated in the source material, but I'd imagine that he gestured with his hand at them to stop, and they stopped. Definitely no use of gates or lights or flags or any other such sort of signals, though. | ||
| Clycking (Clycking)
|
Was he watching them throughout as they circled six times? Could anyone at all have stopped them? Could anyone else with his profession have stopped them? No one else? Was this a game of some sort? A competition? A wager? | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
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Is he a film director? | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
Is the location relevant? Is it Rome? Any connection with the Colosseum? Title relevant? Is anyone about to die? Would the car passengers have died if the man had not put a stop to the circling? | ||
| Sam Greene (Pandora)
|
Hi Haenlomal First of all, Do you mind if I name the man Mike? Is he a Policeman? A road surveyor? does his occupation involve vehicles? or security? Was the car on a public road? off-road? Are they circling a building? Was it dangerous for these people to be circling? illegal? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Clycking Was he watching them throughout as they circled six times? Yes Could anyone at all have stopped them? Yes, there were others present that could conceivably have stopped them. Could anyone else with his profession have stopped them? Yes No one else? So no to this question Was this a game of some sort? A competition? A wager? None of these really, I'm afraid. Though I suppose if you really, really stretch the boundaries, you can call it a "game" of sorts. Mycroft Is he a film director? No, but good thinking. Woodworm Is the location relevant? Somewhat relevant -- the situation described at this puzzle cannot just "happen" anywhere, that's for sure. Is it Rome? No Any connection with the Colosseum? No, but good to see someone picked up on the title. Title relevant? As is the case with all my puzzles, the title has some connection to the situation on hand. However, in this particular case, the connection is some tenuous, twisted, contrived, and remote that you would be better off pursuing other lines of inquiry. Is anyone about to die? No, but... Would the car passengers have died if the man had not put a stop to the circling? This is debatable -- let's just say that the potential for physical harm definitely existed. Pandora Hi Haenlomal Hi Sam Long time no see -- um, read! First of all, Do you mind if I name the man Mike? His name is actually James, so let's use that instead -- this is a true story after all. And I doubt that giving his real life first name would enable people to do a successful Google search. Is he a Policeman? No A road surveyor? No does his occupation involve vehicles? No, not primarily -- I mean, I assume most folks take the public transit or their own car to work, but that's as far as involvement with vehicles go. It would be the same case for James. or security? No Was the car on a public road? Yope off-road? Yope -- and there may be a small hint of a FA in the last two questions. Are they circling a building? YES -- good question! Was it dangerous for these people to be circling? No, but the potential for danger definitely was there. illegal? Well, technically speaking, yes. But this has a HUGE potential to mislead. Consider yourselves forewarned! Good questions, all of you, btw. | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
Anything to do with a circus? A circular building? Does it matter whether they circled clockwise or anticlockwise? Was James inside the building when he allowed them to circle? Was he inside the building when he stopped the circling? Does he normally work inside the building? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Anything to do with a circus? No A circular building? The exact shape of the building is irrelevant, but I don't think it was circular. Does it matter whether they circled clockwise or anticlockwise? No Was James inside the building when he allowed them to circle? No Was he inside the building when he stopped the circling? No Does he normally work inside the building? No, but... | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
Yope to off-road -- were they circling the building in a parking lot? an access driveway? a bike path? a sidewalk? a lawn or field? While they were circling, were they looking for something? a door? a street number? a sign? a person? Did James stop them because of the potential for danger? or for another reason? Was the potential for danger to the men in the car? to James? to other people? to the building? to some other object? Was stopping them something that was directly related to his job? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Yope to off-road -- were they circling the building in a parking lot? an access driveway? a bike path? a sidewalk? a lawn or field? I have been thinking more about my answer to this question. I think I will change my answer to "yes" for off-road to avoid unnecessary confusion. It's a relatively minor detail anyway. While they were circling, were they looking for something? a door? a street number? a sign? a person? None of these. Did James stop them because of the potential for danger? or for another reason? This one -- in the source material, James was writing autobiographically, and he gives no indication that he was even thinking about the potential danger at the time. Was the potential for danger to the men in the car? to James? to other people? to the building? to some other object? Potentially to all of these. Was stopping them something that was directly related to his job? Yes, but beware of potential mislead! | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
car = normal automobile? Is this a rollercoaster or some other amusement park thing? Do we have to find out anything about the building? Do they test cars there? Crash tests relevant? Was it illegal for them to be circling because they had no driver's license? because they were drunk or under the influence of drugs? because they were too young? Is the time when this is set relevant? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
car = normal automobile? Yes, but you might want to narrow it down a bit, since there are many different types of "normal automobile" that one can expect to find almost anywhere. Is this a rollercoaster or some other amusement park thing? No Do we have to find out anything about the building? Yes Do they test cars there? No Crash tests relevant? No Was it illegal for them to be circling because they had no driver's license? because they were drunk or under the influence of drugs? THIS ONE -- they were drunk. Well done! because they were too young? Is the time when this is set relevant? Not really, but I think this happened in the 70's or 80's. It could just as easily have happened a few years earlier or yesterday. | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
The car: a taxi? If so, were they all drunk? or was the taxi driver sober? If he was sober, was he running the meter up on them? or was he doing what they told him to? )"Cab driver, once more 'round the block!") What we need to find out about the building: its size? If so, did it take up an entire city block? (like many hotels and office towers?) more than one city block? (like a stadium or a casino?) less than an entire city block? a city lot? (around here, thats usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 meters by 40 to 50 meters.) less than a city lot? its purpose? was it an office building? a residential building? a storage building? a building used primarily for manufacturing? Wild guess: was the building a hotel and James was the doorman? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
A few clarifications are in order before I answer Barbara's question. These are just details and don't really impact the puzzle any, but since it's a true story, I just want to be as accurate as possible. Anyway, here goes: 1) There were 3 men in the car, so not 4 men. 2) This took place in the Spring of 1988, so it's fairly recent - not the 70's. The car: a taxi? No, but good thinking If so, were they all drunk? However, this is correct -- all three gentlemen in the car, including the driver, was drunk. or was the taxi driver sober? If he was sober, was he running the meter up on them? N/A or was he doing what they told him to? )"Cab driver, once more 'round the block!") N/A What we need to find out about the building: its size? No, but given the situation and the surroundings, I'd guess it's not that big at all -- maybe the size of a small bungalow. If so, did it take up an entire city block? (like many hotels and office towers?) more than one city block? (like a stadium or a casino?) less than an entire city block? a city lot? (around here, thats usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 meters by 40 to 50 meters.) less than a city lot? its purpose? Yes was it an office building? a residential building? a storage building? a building used primarily for manufacturing? Unfortunately, none of these. Wild guess: was the building a hotel and James was the doorman? Sorry, no. Good thinking, though. | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
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VERY long shot, but how about a lighthouse? Were the men in the car trying to catch a glimpse of something or someone inside the building? If so, was she pretty? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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VERY long shot, but how about a lighthouse? Nice try, but no Were the men in the car trying to catch a glimpse of something or someone inside the building? No If so, was she pretty? Heh. N/A | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is the building a house? a tower? a monument? a statue? a memorial site? a gas station? a shop? a supermarket? a pub? Did they drive James' car? Was James drunk, too? Was James working at the time when this happened? Did the car people work at the same place as James? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Is the building a house? a tower? a monument? a statue? a memorial site? a gas station? a shop? a supermarket? a pub? None of these Did they drive James' car? No Was James drunk, too? No Was James working at the time when this happened? Yes Did the car people work at the same place as James? No...and there's a bit of a FA here. | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
James was working, but was he at his place of employment when he stopped them from circling? The building: was it a pavilion of some sort? a park shelter? a gazebo? a retail shop? did it have walls? doors? windows? Was the car a normal-sized car? if yes, a sub-compact? compact? mid-sized? luxury? truck? van? SUV? Semi-tractor? size relevant? Gas powered? electric-powered? diesel-powered? hybrid? fuel relevant? a scale model? a bump'em car? a clown car? a go-kart? Shot in the dark: were they driving inside the building? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 775 Registered: 9-2003 |
James was working, but was he at his place of employment when he stopped them from circling? A bit tough to answer...there's a bit of a FA here. Let's just say that James was where he wanted to be for the purposes of his work when he stopped the circling. The building: was it a pavilion of some sort? a park shelter? a gazebo? a retail shop? None of these (I have a feeling you all will be kicking yourselves when you finally discover what it is! ) did it have walls? doors? windows? Yes to all of these Was the car a normal-sized car? Not sure, the source wasn't that specific. Certainly "normal" and "larger size" versions of this vehicle exist, but I don't know exactly which one was used. if yes, a sub-compact? compact? mid-sized? luxury? truck? van? SUV? Semi-tractor? None of these, though truck comes closest (and it's really not that close at all) size relevant? See my previous answer Gas powered? electric-powered? diesel-powered? hybrid? fuel relevant? It's either gased or diesel powered...exact fuel not relevant a scale model? No a bump'em car? No a clown car? No a go-kart? No Shot in the dark: were they driving inside the building? Nice try, but no | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1252 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hmmmm... A jeep? an RV? The building: a fast food restaurant? another business with a drive-through lane? did they keep going through the drive through? Do other people normally drive around this building? If so, once and then they leave? once and then they park? more than once and then they leave? more than once and then they park? Did their driving around the building cause something to happen? (remember the air-bells at gas stations? If you drove over the hose between the gas pumps, the bell sounded. Small children (and I suppose drunks) could find this highly amusing.) Is the building James' place of business? is he associated with it in any formal way? (owns it? rents it? maintains it?) | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2006 |
Was James carrying out his job when stopping the vehicle? Traffic cop or Traffic warden? Were the drunks driving round & round the same building 'for a laugh'? Or because they were confused & didn't realise they were driving round the same building several times? Or couldn't avoid driving round because of some condition of the roadway, e.g. one-way street, traffic direction, lane markings? | ||
| Anastas (Aragorn)
New member Username: Aragorn Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2004 |
Hi there! Was the building a church/barn/toilet/windmill/factory/power station/school? Was the building a residency? place of work? a government building? some place to do with technology? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 776 Registered: 9-2003 |
Sorry for the late replies all, but I was tied up helping my brother for his wedding... Rabrab Hmmmm... A jeep? an RV? No, and no The building: a fast food restaurant? another business with a drive-through lane? did they keep going through the drive through? No to all of these. Do other people normally drive around this building? I don't know...and it's irrelevant anyway If so, once and then they leave? once and then they park? more than once and then they leave? more than once and then they park? See my previous answer. Did their driving around the building cause something to happen? (remember the air-bells at gas stations? If you drove over the hose between the gas pumps, the bell sounded. Small children (and I suppose drunks) could find this highly amusing.) No, it does not cause anything to happen, but the part about drunks finding things highly amusing is not that far off the mark. Is the building James' place of business? No...and there's a bit of a FA here. is he associated with it in any formal way? Yes (owns it? rents it? maintains it? But in none of these capacities.) Plebeian Was James carrying out his job when stopping the vehicle? No Traffic cop or Traffic warden? No Were the drunks driving round & round the same building 'for a laugh'? Presumably this one Or because they were confused & didn't realise they were driving round the same building several times? Or couldn't avoid driving round because of some condition of the roadway, e.g. one-way street, traffic direction, lane markings? No to the rest Aragorn Hi there! Hello. Was the building a church/barn/toilet/windmill/factory/power station/school? The building was a church. Very well done!! Was the building a residency? place of work? a government building? some place to do with technology? See my previous answer -- you've just solved a major part of the puzzle. | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1290 Registered: 2-2005 |
So the building is a church...Is James the sexton? pastor? one of the churchwardens? vicar? Is the car a limousine? a hearse? Are the men at the church for some churchish function? a wedding? a baptism? confirmation? funeral? hope your bro's wedding went well! | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 778 Registered: 9-2003 |
So the building is a church...Is James the sexton? pastor? one of the churchwardens? vicar? Close enough...James was a priest. But beware potential FA! Is the car a limousine? a hearse? Again, close enough...the car was a pick-up truck being used as a hearse. Are the men at the church for some churchish function? a wedding? a baptism? confirmation? funeral? This last one hope your bro's wedding went well! It ran overtime a bit, but otherwise, it was great. Lots of progress made here. This puzzle should be over shortly. Only a few more details left. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1291 Registered: 2-2005 |
Well, then, was James a priest, but not directly attached to this particular church? Was he at the church only for the funeral? Was he a member of the bury-ee's family? Were the drunken joyriders also members of the family? close friends? some of the pallbearers? Did the corpse's last words include "Hey!! Watch this!!"?  | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 779 Registered: 9-2003 |
Well, then, was James a priest, but not directly attached to this particular church? Yes -- FA removed Was he at the church only for the funeral? Yes Was he a member of the bury-ee's family? No Were the drunken joyriders also members of the family? close friends? some of the pallbearers? They were at least friends of the deceased, since they turned out to be the pallbearers as well. The source does not reveal if they have closer relationship to the deceased. Did the corpse's last words include "Hey!! Watch this!!"? Hehe...irrelevant | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is the profession of the deceased relevant? Was he perhaps a racing driver, and the pallbearers were paying tribute to him in some way? | ||
| Aragorn (Aragorn)
New member Username: Aragorn Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2004 |
Did the priest instruct them to make 6 circles? Did he stop them because they were supposed to make only 6 circles? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 781 Registered: 9-2003 |
Woodworm Is the profession of the deceased relevant? No Was he perhaps a racing driver, and the pallbearers were paying tribute to him in some way? No, but good thinking. Aragorn Did the priest instruct them to make 6 circles? No Did he stop them because they were supposed to make only 6 circles? No | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1298 Registered: 2-2005 |
Did he just get fed up after six circles and stop them because he realized that they weren't going to stop on their own anytime soon? had he been busy while they were making the six circles and stopped them as soon as he was able to? did it take him six circles to catch their attention? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 346 Registered: 3-2006 |
Was the circling in any way connected with the last wishes of the deceased? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 782 Registered: 9-2003 |
Rabrab Did he just get fed up after six circles and stop them because he realized that they weren't going to stop on their own anytime soon? No, but you're in the right forest.... had he been busy while they were making the six circles and stopped them as soon as he was able to? No did it take him six circles to catch their attention? No Woodworm Was the circling in any way connected with the last wishes of the deceased? No I'll be posting a recap shortly to help with the final push. | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 783 Registered: 9-2003 |
Ok....here's the promised.... RECAP/HINTS/ETC.: This story takes place in the spring of 1988 somewhere in Western Canada. James is a priest who is responsible for the funeral of a man. He waited at a church (not his own) for the body to arrive. The body arrived in a pick-up truck who served as the hearse, and were driven by three of the pallbearers. However, the pallbearers were drunk, and in their drunken state found it amusing to drive circles around the church. James permitted them to circle the church six times before finally putting a stop to it. Things to be discovered: - Why did James allow the three men to circle the church six times? (i.e. why not stop them earlier or later?) Hint: - There is a minor relevant event that occurred before the circling but after the arrival of the body. As of yet, no one has even touched on it. While strictly speaking this puzzle can be solved without knowledge of this event, it would help immensely in fleshing out James' motives and thoughts. Good luck! | ||
| Plebeian (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 353 Registered: 7-2006 |
When the men arrived, did they see the priest immediately? Did the priest communicate with the men before the circling? did the men communicate with the priest? Could they be said to have a reason for the circling, other than just the hell of it? Was another burial in progress when the men arrived? Or wedding, Christening? Did the priest (or someone else) ask them to 'drive round' until something had finished? And maybe they took the request literally? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 785 Registered: 9-2003 |
When the men arrived, did they see the priest immediately? No Did the priest communicate with the men before the circling? No -- good question. did the men communicate with the priest? No Could they be said to have a reason for the circling, other than just the hell of it? No -- for the purposes of this puzzle, the men were circling because they were drunk and thought that it was amusing to do so. Otherwise, they would have pulled up to the front of the church right away and do their pallbearer duties. Was another burial in progress when the men arrived? No Or wedding, Christening? No Did the priest (or someone else) ask them to 'drive round' until something had finished? No And maybe they took the request literally? No | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1305 Registered: 2-2005 |
back from vacation and still puzzling over this one... So, the minor occurance between the arrival of the pick-up truck and the beginning of the circling: was it something the drunk pallbearers did? something James did? something some other person did? Something some other person had done earlier? something some -thing- did? something one of the pallbearers said? something James said? something someone else said? something the pallbearers heard? saw? felt? something James heard? saw? felt? something someone else heard? saw? felt? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 787 Registered: 9-2003 |
back from vacation and still puzzling over this one... Cackle...hope you had a good vacation. Where did you go? So, the minor occurance between the arrival of the pick-up truck and the beginning of the circling: was it something the drunk pallbearers did? This one something James did? something some other person did? Something some other person had done earlier? something some -thing- did? something one of the pallbearers said? something James said? something someone else said? something the pallbearers heard? saw? felt? something James heard? saw? felt? something someone else heard? saw? felt? No to the rest, though James and others did see what the drunk pallbearers did. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1313 Registered: 2-2005 |
It was a good vacation. I went camping with several thousand of my nearest and dearest friends. Also know as the Pennsic War. Did the pallbearers need to get out of the truck to do the thing that they did before the circling began? Did they get out of the truck, even though they didn't need to? Did the minor occurance involve the pallbearers using some item? discarding some item? did they make something? destroy something? damage something? throw something? Is the minor occurance something that made James reluctant to interfere with the pallbearers? afraid of them? amused at them? disgusted with them? angry with them? Did they fire off a gun or guns? Are the others who also saw the occurance relevant? If so, would James have reacted differently had the others not been there? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 788 Registered: 9-2003 |
Did the pallbearers need to get out of the truck to do the thing that they did before the circling began? Yes Did they get out of the truck, even though they didn't need to? So this one is N/A. Did the minor occurance involve the pallbearers using some item? Yesish, for very vague values of the term "using"...the "ish" part is pretty big here. discarding some item? did they make something? destroy something? damage something? throw something? No to the rest. Is the minor occurance something that made James reluctant to interfere with the pallbearers? Yes afraid of them? amused at them? disgusted with them? angry with them? No to the rest Did they fire off a gun or guns? No Are the others who also saw the occurance relevant? Yesish If so, would James have reacted differently had the others not been there? Hard to say....but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they'd have circled more than six times if not for the presence of others. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1328 Registered: 2-2005 |
Did they do something with the coffin? with the corpse? with (one of? some of? all of?) their beer cans? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 789 Registered: 9-2003 |
Did they do something with the coffin? Yes with the corpse? Ugh...no! with (one of? some of? all of?) their beer cans? Nothing to do with beer cans at all. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1333 Registered: 2-2005 |
Did they take it out of the truck? move it? put something on it? under it? over it? around it? Were all of the pallbearers riding in the cab of the truck when they arrived? while they circled? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 790 Registered: 9-2003 |
Did they take it out of the truck? Yes move it? This is close enough...they took it out of the pickup, but almost immediately put it back in again. put something on it? under it? over it? around it? Were all of the pallbearers riding in the cab of the truck when they arrived? Good question. The source never states the total number of pallbearers. However, there were only three men in the pickup truck, and they all were pallbearers. It could be that there were other pallbearers waiting at the church. while they circled? Yes, subject to the conditions set in my previous answer. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1335 Registered: 2-2005 |
The hint below has been transferred from Haenlomal's message above following his request because the light blue/gray background revealed the white text To help move the puzzle along, here's a hint in white text: Try to discover the background of the people that James is ministering to. This is very relevant to the puzzle. Well, if you insist... They didn't have a hearse so, poor? isolated? unconventional? They did have a pick-up truck: is this a rural area? are they farmers? ranchers? is it an urban area? are they laborers? construction workers? carpenters? house painters? Did the truck belong to one of the three men? if so, did he use it in his daily work? or was it a showpiece truck, like a Cadillac Escalade SUV is a showpiece -- it may be called an SUV, but virtually no-one really uses one as a utility vehicle? NASCAR fans? Did they remove the coffin solely to change its position in the back of the truck? from laying down to standing on one end? to laying on its side? did they turn it lid-side down? When they replaced it in the truckbed, did they fasten it in position in some way? | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2006 |
background of the ppl being ministered to...? cannibals? kkk? background as in... ethnicity? nationality? religion? cult? organisation? company? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 792 Registered: 9-2003 |
Rabrab Well, if you insist... Oh, shush you...the thing is that the preview does not tell you which background is going to be in the next posting. I suppose I should have checked it out for myself, though, seeing as it's not hard to figure out.... They didn't have a hearse so, poor? Yes isolated? Yes unconventional? I'd say no, but it really depends how you'd define "unconventional". They did have a pick-up truck: is this a rural area? Yes, for svv of "rural" are they farmers? Their exact occupations are irrelevant, but some could conceivably be any of those that you listed. ranchers? is it an urban area? No are they laborers? construction workers? carpenters? house painters? Did the truck belong to one of the three men? Unknown...the source doesn't say. I'd assume so. if so, did he use it in his daily work? Irrelevant or was it a showpiece truck, like a Cadillac Escalade SUV is a showpiece -- it may be called an SUV, but virtually no-one really uses one as a utility vehicle? Irrelevant NASCAR fans? LOL...no Did they remove the coffin solely to change its position in the back of the truck? No...you already discovered all you need to know about this part of the puzzle: the three men drove up in their pickup truck with the coffin in the back. They got out, took the coffin out, but then they put the coffin back in, and then started to circle the church.... from laying down to standing on one end? to laying on its side? did they turn it lid-side down? When they replaced it in the truckbed, did they fasten it in position in some way? Senorina_illuminata Welcome to the forum! background of the ppl being ministered to...? Yes cannibals? No kkk? No background as in... ethnicity? Yes nationality? Well, yes, but you already know they lived in Canada. religion? A little bit of this, yes cult? No organisation? No company? No | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1340 Registered: 2-2005 |
Ok, svv of "rural"... rural as the opposite of urban? farm country? or rural as woodland? prairie? mountains? tundra? artic? sparsely populated? remote? And, reaching way back to the first set of questions I asked, and an answer that I didn't follow up on properly...
The something specific: were they looking for something as they circled? the grave, perhaps? Is the graveyard somewhere a distance away from the church? Out of sight? | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2006 |
Haenlomal, thankyou for your welcome i'm still quite puzzled on this one....i'll get back to you soon! | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 793 Registered: 9-2003 |
Rabrab Ok, svv of "rural"... rural as the opposite of urban? Well, it's definitely not urban -- see my next few replies. farm country? or rural as woodland? prairie? mountains? tundra? artic? sparsely populated? This one remote? and this one too. No to the rest. And, reaching way back to the first set of questions I asked, and an answer that I didn't follow up on properly...
The something specific: were they looking for something as they circled? the grave, perhaps? Is the graveyard somewhere a distance away from the church? Out of sight? None of these really -- what I meant was that they were drunk, but you guys didn't know that at that point in the puzzle. Undoubtedly they'd have stopped at some time if James hadn't intervened, but only God knows what specific thing would have caused them to stop. In other words, don't worry too much about this part. Senorina_illuminata Haenlomal, thankyou for your welcome i'm still quite puzzled on this one....i'll get back to you soon! Muahahahaha! Take all the time you need. I eagerly wait for more questions. | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2006 |
i'm back! DISCLAIMER  me being back does not guarantee an influx of ingenious ideas!) Well, my only new thoughts re: where this takes place...are they on an island? in a helicopter? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 794 Registered: 9-2003 |
i'm back! DISCLAIMER me being back does not guarantee an influx of ingenious ideas!)  Well, my only new thoughts re: where this takes place...That's a good question. If you can figure this out, I think the puzzle nearly solves itself are they on an island? No in a helicopter? It must be a huge helicopter indeed to be able to accomodate a church and a circling pickup... in other words, no. | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1345 Registered: 2-2005 |
Remote and sparsely populated, in Canada, it's a true story, and our finding out where it is will help with the solving. Oh, <pout> North Pole? Don't think there's any churches there, though... Is the region: Alberta? Ontario? Quebec? Saskatchewan? British Columbia? Newfoundland? Labrador? Manitoba? Nova Scotia? New Brunswick? Northwest Territories? Nunavut? The Yukon? PEI? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 795 Registered: 9-2003 |
Remote and sparsely populated, in Canada, it's a true story, and our finding out where it is will help with the solving. Oh, <pout> Unfortunately, pouting does not help solve lateral puzzles. But your questions below, on the other hand.... North Pole? No Don't think there's any churches there, though... I don't think so, either. Is the region: Alberta? Ontario? Quebec? Saskatchewan? British Columbia? This one Newfoundland? Labrador? Manitoba? Nova Scotia? New Brunswick? Northwest Territories? Nunavut? The Yukon? PEI? | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2006 |
hmmm British Columbia? yes...that helps......um! ah...are they native americans? would it help to figure out what religion the minister is? the deceased is? pallbearers are? is it an unusual church? you said figuring out where this takes place would help solve this puzzle....perhaps it's just my lack of Northern Hemispherical Geographic knowledge..... | ||
| Rabrab (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1347 Registered: 2-2005 |
Unfortunately, pouting does not help solve lateral puzzles. I know, but it makes me feel better. BC, hmmmm? Well then, are totem poles or whatever the culturally-sensitive term is, I can barely keep up with USian urban PC-isms  relevant? Were they driving strictly around the church building itself, or was there something else near the church building that they were driving around? Is the direction they were driving relevant? (if so, was it deosil (clockwise) or widdershins (anti-clockwise)?) OK, so I've perhaps cheated by grabbing a map of British Columbia for these next few questions. Please don't be mad at me, I'm laboring under the handicap of an USian education. That means I vaguely know where BC is (north of Washington State) and next to nothing else about it.) Did this occur north of a line from Prince Rupert and Dawson Creek? (Way up north where there doesn't seem to be much of anything except space?) Between that line and a line from Port Hardy to Golden? (in the middle section where ther appear to be towns, but it still looks awfully sparse?) Between the US/BC border and the line from Port Hardy to Golden? (lots of towns, cities and settlements, relatively speaking?) | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 796 Registered: 9-2003 |
Senorina_illuminata hmmm British Columbia? yes...that helps......um! ah...are they native americans? YES!!!! Now care to put everything together? would it help to figure out what religion the minister is? Yes, this is somewhat relevant. the deceased is? No pallbearers are? No is it an unusual church? No you said figuring out where this takes place would help solve this puzzle....perhaps it's just my lack of Northern Hemispherical Geographic knowledge..... Be that as it may, you just figured out one of the most important parts of this puzzle. Congratulations. Rabrab Unfortunately, pouting does not help solve lateral puzzles. I know, but it makes me feel better. (Oh boy...I'm starting to like these new cliparts way too much!  ) BC, hmmmm? Well then, are totem poles or whatever the culturally-sensitive term is, I can barely keep up with USian urban PC-isms relevant? Not really. The important point here is that they are Native North Americans Were they driving strictly around the church building itself, or was there something else near the church building that they were driving around? Yes, because YES or NO == YES... Oh, all right. They were only driving around the church building itself. Is the direction they were driving relevant? (if so, was it deosil (clockwise) or widdershins (anti-clockwise)?) No OK, so I've perhaps cheated by grabbing a map of British Columbia for these next few questions. Please don't be mad at me, I'm laboring under the handicap of an USian education. That means I vaguely know where BC is (north of Washington State) and next to nothing else about it.) In my experience, at least in matters of geography, it's not the quality of the education but the memory and interest of the individual in question. I used to be very interested in geography, so I retained most of my geographical knowledge. I have friends who attended all the same geography classes as me, yet they won't be able to tell you where Sweden is if their lives depend on it. Oh well. Did this occur north of a line from Prince Rupert and Dawson Creek? (Way up north where there doesn't seem to be much of anything except space?) Between that line and a line from Port Hardy to Golden? (in the middle section where ther appear to be towns, but it still looks awfully sparse?) Between the US/BC border and the line from Port Hardy to Golden? (lots of towns, cities and settlements, relatively speaking?) You don't need to know anything more about the geography, but for the record, it's actually not too far from Vancouver, but still far enough to be easily considered a "remote" area (if I recall my source correctly -- I'm at work right now). | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2006 |
thankyou for your congratulatory comments however, considering that i apparently figured out a very important part of this puzzle, i am more ashamed than ever to admit that i have no more of a clue now than i did before! | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2006 |
did the minister think they may have been circling due to some cultural/religious custom or practice? or did he know that they were just drunk? | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 52 Registered: 9-2006 |
did this have anything to do with 'The Six Directions'? 'the six nations? sacred circles? am i on the right track? or as i suspect, way, way, off!? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 798 Registered: 9-2003 |
thankyou for your congratulatory comments however, considering that i apparently figured out a very important part of this puzzle, i am more ashamed than ever to admit that i have no more of a clue now than i did before! Worry not, because.... did the minister think they may have been circling due to some cultural/religious custom or practice? EXACTLY. Well done! or did he know that they were just drunk? NO. Good question! Once again, congratulations are in order. You've just solved the puzzle. As I'm at work right now, and on a very busy schedule, I'll defer a proper $poiler and solution until a more appropriate time. However, for those of you who are interested, google up "James Savoy" in the Internet, and read up on his interesting experiences. That should explain it all. | ||
| Senorina_illuminata (Senorina_illuminata)
New member Username: Senorina_illuminata Post Number: 57 Registered: 9-2006 |
wow! thankyou i really should also give kudos to rabrab for her wonderful list that identified B.C as the venue, without that piece of info i never would have solved it! Thanks!! and thankyou Haenlomal, it was a great puzzle! it really made me think! (which is quite a feat nowdays!! hehehe) | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 799 Registered: 9-2003 |
Well, I'm having trouble finding the source from Reader's Digest...seems I misplaced my copy somewhere. So once again my faulty memory will have to do. ****************** SPOILER ****************** James Savory was Roman Catholic priest dedicated to working with native Americans in British Columbia. He worked with them for 15(?) years before moving on. And while he had many fond memories of his experience, life was not always easy for him. In his biography (written by his sister Christine), he recounts an incident at the very beginning of his 15 year ministry. It was 1988, and he had just moved his stuff over to the remote outpost that would serve as his headquarters. He has scarcely gotten settled down when news arrived that a man had sadly passed away. James's mentor thought that this was a relatively easy "assignment" to get James acquainted with the locals.... ....so James found himself presently in a small native village, in front of the local chuch. Waiting with him were serveral elders of the tribe. Soon enough, a pickup drove up to the church. The three young men in it got, and pulled the casket halfway out the back. Inexplicably, they suddenly stopped, pushed the casket back in, got back into the pickup, and drove off. James found the behaviour odd, but did not comment on it. After all, he had no clue about native American culture, and seeing that the elders of the tribe did nothing, it could well be part of some sort of ritual. A short moment later, the pickup came back, and they started to circle. James waited patiently for the "ritual" to finish. One circle, two circles -- that was fine. Three circles -- hmmm...a bit strange. Wonder what those circles represent... Life cycles? Four circles -- maybe they are tracing out the four seasons... Five circles -- Hmmm...definitely not the four seasons. The five senses? Six circles -- Ok...something really strange is going on here... James turned to the nearest tribal elder and whispered to him. "Is this part of some sort of ritual?" To which the elder gave this larconic reply: "No. They are drunk. Tell them to stop horsing around and bring the casket in!" Thanks to all who participated in this puzzle, and a special mention to Rabrab, who did most of the grunt work; Plebian, for a critical lateral leap, and Senorina_illuminata, for the final finishing touches. May you never be driven around in circles by drunken louts... | ||
| Plebeian (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 703 Registered: 7-2006 |
Good one! This one's been going so long I'd forgotten it was around! I'll pick up your next one. |
