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Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1105
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan declared a mathematical impossibility to be true, and though there was some debate, the general consensus was there he was correct. How could this be?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Euclidean/non Euclidean geometries relevant at all?

For example, a triangle drawn on the surface of a sphere can have three right angles. Anything similar to that idea?

Is the statement concerned with arithmetic? Algebra? Geometry? Calculus? Statistics?

(Btw, having just seen the terrifyingly complex solution to your rulebreaker, I'm a bit scared of tackling this one.) :-)
Mycroft (Mycroft)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to add to the maths branches - probability? Information theory?

Is this a historical event? FYOI?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Euclidean/non Euclidean geometries relevant at all? no

For example, a triangle drawn on the surface of a sphere can have three right angles. Anything similar to that idea? no

Is the statement concerned with arithmetic? yes....ish Algebra? Geometry? Calculus? Statistics? no to the rest

(Btw, having just seen the terrifyingly complex solution to your rulebreaker, I'm a bit scared of tackling this one.) haha...this is much more simple, I promise

Just to add to the maths branches - probability? Information theory? no

Is this a historical event?no FYOI? yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an incongruous sum, such as 1+1=2? Is is something like "putting two and two together and making five"? Or is it something like dividing by zero? Is i (the root of minus one) relevant?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an incongruous sum, such as 1+1=2?no Is is something like "putting two and two together and making five"?noish Or is it something like dividing by zero?noish Is i (the root of minus one) relevant?no
Mycroft (Mycroft)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any famous mathematicians or mathematical theorems relevant?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any famous mathematicians or mathematical theorems relevant? not in the slightest.
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OOOH a math puzzle!!

Impossibility: defining pi as a quotient of two numbers? I recall dividing 113 by 355 gets as close as 6 decimal places
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 3:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OOOH a math puzzle!! I have a clever response to that, but saying it would be a clue!! Darn

Impossibility: defining pi as a quotient of two numbers?no I recall dividing 113 by 355 gets as close as 6 decimal places
Judgedeadd (Judgedeadd)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a not really math puzzle?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with phrases based on mathematical impossibilities? I have an idea, but don't want to just jump in with it.
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, the title is relevant I think... impossibility, going 100 miles north, 100 east, and 100 south back to the same place?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a not really math puzzle? no, it's not primarily a math puzzle. It's more lateral than that.

Anything to do with phrases based on mathematical impossibilities?Um, please clarify I have an idea, but don't want to just jump in with it.

Hey, the title is relevant I think... yes it is, but it is intentionally quite vague impossibility, going 100 miles north, 100 east, and 100 south back to the same place? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK
Did someone say that two positives don't make a negative he said 'yeah, right'
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK
Did someone say that two positives don't make a negative he said 'yeah, right'not really, but this is more or less on the right track
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this puzzle about Geography? Like going 2 norths don't make you go south?(I am going to ride of Lynnes statement for a while)
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this puzzle about Geography?no Like going 2 norths don't make you go south?no(I am going to ride of Lynnes statement for a while)
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the impossibility going north, south, east, or west, and soon be in the USA without being starting in there?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the impossibility going north, south, east, or west, and soon be in the USA without being starting in there? no. this has nothing to do with geography or direction
Rufus (Rufus)
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with synergy, like 1+1 > 2?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with synergy, like 1+1 > 2?no
Judgedeadd (Judgedeadd)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dan declared an impossibility to be true...
Does it mean:
that he declared something to be impossible
or
that he declared that something impossible was in fact possible and true?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Dan declared an impossibility to be true...
Does it mean:
that he declared something to be impossible
or
that he declared that something impossible was in fact possible and true?this
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: This puzzle could not work before the late 1960s.
Rufus (Rufus)
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Popular culture of 1960's relevant?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Popular culture of 1960's relevant?yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with Andy Warhol's "everybody will be famous for 15 minutes"
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with Andy Warhol's "everybody will be famous for 15 minutes"no
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Moon landings relevant? Concorde?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Moon landings relevant?no Concorde?no
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

60's, you say? Should we explore:

Hallucinogens?
Nirvana?
Alien abductions?
Alternative universes?
Being in two places / states at once?

And what's the story with the smileys?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

60's, you say? Should we explore:

Hallucinogens?
Nirvana?
Alien abductions?
Alternative universes?
Being in two places / states at once? none of these

And what's the story with the smileys? the story? just type : ) but without the space!
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

60's, you say? Should we explore:

Hallucinogens?
Nirvana?
Alien abductions?
Alternative universes?
Being in two places / states at once?

And what's the story with the smileys?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How on earth did you double post over 9 hours apart?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How on earth did you double post over 9 hours apart?
Post a message, leave the page on, go to work, come back, hit "Reload" to see the updates. Since the last display was a result of a POST command, this command is re-executed in full, posting the message again. Oops! I should have made this into a puzzle... ;-)
Katy (Katy)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Beatles relevant?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Beatles relevant?no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the following relevant? music? film? theatre? Art? literature? TV?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Are the following relevant? music?no film?no theatre?no Art?no literature?no TV?yes!
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Specifically colour TV?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Specifically colour TV?yes
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Is the impossibility related to an average number of TV sets per household ( like 0.32 )?
Is it something about mixing colors: the math will involve wave lengths?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the impossibility related to an average number of TV sets per household ( like 0.32 )? no
Is it something about mixing colors: the math will involve wave lengths? no, nothing like this
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: A particular television show is relevant
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Is the number of viewers relevant? ( E.g., the show was so popular that the number of viewers over a period of time exceeded current world population )
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is the number of viewers relevant?no ( E.g., the show was so popular that the number of viewers over a period of time exceeded current world population )
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A quiz show?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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A quiz show?no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ripleys believe it or not? is the show made in the US? UK? Other?

Is the show relevant because of it's name? cast? setting? subject matter? is it a drama? comedy? documentary? news programme? music programme??
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ripleys believe it or not?no is the show made in the US?no, but it aired in the US UK?this I believe Other?

Is the show relevant because of it's name?no cast?no setting?yope subject matter?yes is it a drama?yope or yesish comedy?no documentary?no news programme?no music programme??no
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Sci fi? Doctor Who?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Sci fi?yes Doctor Who?but no
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Red Dwarf?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Red Dwarf?no
~damia~ (~damia~)
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star trek?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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puppetry sci/fi? thunderbirds? Captain Scarlet? Stingray?

Is the name Dan in the title relevant or did you just give him a name knowing our penchant for naming characters in puzzles?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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star trek?no

puppetry sci/fi? thunderbirds? Captain Scarlet? Stingray? none of these

Is the name Dan in the title relevant or did you just give him a name knowing our penchant for naming characters in puzzles?just a random name!
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a well known sci-fi series? With human actors?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is it a well known sci-fi series?Hard to say...it's nothing to the degree of star trek, and much shorter lived, but I wasn't born until about 15 years after it ended and I still know all about it... With human actors?yes

I will say that some people would classify this show as fantasy, or even mystery/thriller as opposed to sci-fi; all are accurate in their own right.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it take place in the far future? near future? aliens involved? is it more of comedy than sci-fi?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it take place in the far future?no near future?yes...made in the sixties, set in cold-war era, so present to near future at the time aliens involved?no is it more of comedy than sci-fi?not at all
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quatermass?
Eli (Eli)
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Last night I suddenly got this idea it was Dr Who. Was sooooo sure, but obviously it's not

You said you thought it was a British series. Is it English speaking actors with British accent? Any famous ones?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quatermass?no

Last night I suddenly got this idea it was Dr Who. Was sooooo sure, but obviously it's not nope! sorry!

You said you thought it was a British series. Is it English speaking actors with British accent? If I remember correctly the main actor is an American, and there are very few other steady cast members...but I did check wikipedia and it is a British show. Any famous ones? Relatively not famous, but it depends...
Eli (Eli)
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Was it produced by BBC? ITV? Other?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Was it produced by BBC? ITV?this, well it aired on this channel anyway, but I'm pretty sure the main actor was also the executive producer Other?
Eli (Eli)
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Pathfinders series? UFO? Space 1999? Out of this world?
Lshooter3k (Lshooter3k)
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Is it to do with The Twilight Zone?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Pathfinders series? UFO? Space 1999? Out of this world?
Is it to do with The Twilight Zone?

no to all
Eli (Eli)
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The Avengers? The Saint?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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The Avengers? The Saint? nope
Eli (Eli)
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Dangerman?
Doomwatch?
The Baron?
Survivors?
Blake's 7?
A for Andromeda?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Dangerman? no, but...
Doomwatch? no
The Baron? no
Survivors? no
Blake's 7? no
A for Andromeda? no
Eli (Eli)
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Hmm, that no, but... Does it mean it's the same actor, but different series? a different series with similar name?
Lshooter3k (Lshooter3k)
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The Prisoner?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Hmm, that no, but... Does it mean it's the same actor, but different series?yes a different series with similar name?no

The Prisoner?YES!!!
Eli (Eli)
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Are we looking for one specific episode?, or the story as a whole?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Are we looking for one specific episode?, or the story as a whole?

One specific episode is more relevant than the rest of the show, but the whole premise of the show is important
Eli (Eli)
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Is Dan The Prisoner? No 2? someone else?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is Dan The Prisoner?no No 2?no someone else?yes
Eli (Eli)
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Is it another inmate? a guard? another of the main characters?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is it another inmate? a guard? another of the main characters?none of these. there is an FA here
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is it another inmate? a guard? another of the main characters?none of these. There is an FA here
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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whoops. sorry for the double post.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Is Dan actually a charater in the show? Or a writer? A viewer?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is Dan actually a charater in the show?no Or a writer?no A viewer?yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I know quite literally nothing about The Prisoner...but would the episode in question have prompted a viewer to say a statement which is a mathematical impossibility? I gather from previous questions that there is a charater called No 2, are they all named after numbers? Is this relevant? Did the viewer say something like "Ah, so Number 2 is actually Number 1!"?
Please excuse my total ignorance about this programme...
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I know quite literally nothing about The Prisoner...but would the episode in question have prompted a viewer to say a statement which is a mathematical impossibility?yes I gather from previous questions that there is a charater called No 2, are they all named after numbers?yes...well...all the relevant characters are Is this relevant?yes Did the viewer say something like "Ah, so Number 2 is actually Number 1!"? something like this, yes, but not this
Please excuse my total ignorance about this programme...no problem. you've pretty much got it. hopefully someone has seen or heard about the show who can finish this off...if not, I think we're close enough to spoil soon
Eli (Eli)
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Is the comment about No 6, The Prisoner?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Is the comment about No 6, The Prisoner?yes
Eli (Eli)
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Does Dan say No 6 is No 1? or maybe The One? something similar?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Dan say No 6 is No 1?yes! or maybe The One? something similar?

**************SPOILER*******************

Dan said that 6 is 1, which mathematically is impossible, but he was referring to the final episode of the Prisoner.

In this episode, the Prisoner, known only as number 6, finally comes face to face with the man called number 1 (up until that point it was unclear whether there actually WAS a no. 1). He pulls 2 masks off of number 1, revealing his own face, and number one runs off.

For fans of the show, this sparked a million theories about whether no. 6 and no. one are the same person...or if this was a hallucination...etc.

Oh, and the title "Where Am I" is the first line of the dialogue that opened almost every episode:

"Where am I?"
"The Island"
"What do you want"
"Information"
"Whose side are you on?"
"That would be telling...we want information! Information! INFORMATION!"
"You wont get it"
"By hook or crook we will"
"Who are you?"
"The new number 2"
"Who is number 1?"
"You are number 6"
"I am not a number! I am a free man!"

Of course, after the final episode, some consider the answer to "Who is number one" to be "You are, number six," a direct answer, not just telling the prisoner that his number is 6.

Thanks for sticking with it, even though I'm not sure anyone here actually ever knew of the show. Sad, because it's a classic.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I watched the whole show many years ago, through to the end, and was enchanted by it but felt let down by the final episode. For me they didn't come up with a very satisfying spoiler!

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