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Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1191
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ten dollars got him the information that had eluded many others for years, so he was arrested.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both he's the same? Did he buy the information from someone? Did he pay 10 dollars for something else that led him to the information? Crime involved?

Relevant where? and when? this took place? Anything relevant about him?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 242
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, BTW.

He a male? human? adult?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1193
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Both he's the same?no Did he buy the information from someone?yope Did he pay 10 dollars for something else that led him to the information?yesish Crime involved?yes

Relevant where?yesish and when?yesish this took place? Anything relevant about him?about the first him, nosih, the second him, yes.

Oh, BTW.

He a male? human? adult?yes for both of them
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 622
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we have two men in the puzzle? May we call them Bill and Ben?

Bill gets the information, and Ben is arrested: is this right? Does Ben supply the information? Are both men breaking the law?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1194
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we have two men in the puzzle? May we call them Bill and Ben? sure

Bill gets the information, and Ben is arrested: is this right?yes Does Ben supply the information?yes Are both men breaking the law?no
Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 320
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a true story? Fiction? FYOI?

Is only one of them breaking the law? If so, is this man Bill? Ben?

What is this law: copyright? data protection? confidentiality agreement? contractual?

Does it matter in the slightest how much money was paid?

In what form was this information given to Bill: email? access to a hidden webpage? in this post? fax? Is this relevant?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1196
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a true story?yes Fiction? FYOI?

Is only one of them breaking the law?yes If so, is this man Bill? Ben? Ben

What is this law: copyright? data protection? confidentiality agreement? contractual? none of these

Does it matter in the slightest how much money was paid? noish or yope

In what form was this information given to Bill: email?no access to a hidden webpage?no in this post?no fax?no Is this relevant?yes
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it sent by letter?

Are they working for some country's intelligence agency?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1198
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it sent by letter? no

Are they working for some country's intelligence agency? no
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the info given verbally? Face to face? By telephone? SMS?

Is Ben guilty of murder? Theft? Fraud? Smuggling?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1202
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the info given verbally?no Face to face?hmm...yope? By telephone?no SMS?no

Is Ben guilty of murder?no Theft?no Fraud?no Smuggling?no
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he acquire the information by just looking at someone or something? Was it written down?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he acquire the information by just looking at someone or something?yope Was it written down?yes
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Bens crime a violent one? was anyone injured? did he take anything? was it a crime on a person? a building? a group of people?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1213
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Bens crime a violent one?no was anyone injured?no did he take anything?no was it a crime on a person?no a building?no a group of people?yope
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill work for the police? Did he ask Ben for information that made Ben inadvertedly admit something that got him arrested?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1219
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill work for the police?no Did he ask Ben for information that made Ben inadvertedly admit something that got him arrested?no
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crime a scam of some sort?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crime a scam of some sort?no
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben discovered something he should have informed authorities about, but did not? Did information come from Ben? Did he reveal it knowingly? Was Ben paid or was someone else?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben discovered something he should have informed authorities about, but did not?noish Did information come from Ben?yope Did he reveal it knowingly?no Was Ben paid or was someone else?someone else
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The common scenarios that comes to mind:

Bill meets Ben in a bar, buys him a drink ( pays bartender $10 ), and:

arm-wrestles with him and spots a tattoo;
is shown an old photo with an inscription;
listens to a story which leads him to a news archive;
gets beaten up by Ben, ends up under the table and reads the secret writing.

Anything like that? :-)
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1249
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The common scenarios that comes to mind:

Bill meets Ben in a bar, buys him a drink ( pays bartender $10 ), and:

arm-wrestles with him and spots a tattoo;
is shown an old photo with an inscription;
listens to a story which leads him to a news archive;
gets beaten up by Ben, ends up under the table and reads the secret writing.

Anything like that? :-) not even remotely similar. sorry. good story though...(although I wouldn't exactly call it common)
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please insert a LTPF list of crimes... I can't find it in any standing puzzles however
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please insert a LTPF list of crimes... I can't find it in any standing puzzles however The crime is perjury
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Ben promised he would tell the truth and only the truth, but lies, and tells that the jury that he didn't give information to Bill? Relevant it was 10$? Would this work if the amounts were in the 100s?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Ben promised he would tell the truth and only the truth, but lies,yes and tells that the jury that he didn't give information to Bill?no Relevant it was 10$?noish Would this work if the amounts were in the 100s?yes
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: Bill did not buy the information directly from Ben. Find out who he got it from and how.
E20 (E20)
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Bill deliberately looking for the information? Or did he "stumble across it"?

Did Bill read the information? In a book? Newspaper? Magazine? From a screen? In a document?

Did Bill know Ben? Did Ben know Bill?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Bill deliberately looking for the information?no Or did he "stumble across it"? yes

Did Bill read the information?yes In a book?no Newspaper?no Magazine?no From a screen?no In a document? yes

Did Bill know Ben?yope Did Ben know Bill?no
E20 (E20)
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Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill realise the significance of his find as soon as he saw it?

Did Bill yopeishly know Ben because Ben was famous? notorious?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill realise the significance of his find as soon as he saw it? yes

Did Bill yopeishly know Ben because Ben was famous?yesish notorious?yesish
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did Bill know of Ben, but had never met him? Or had met him once or twice, but didn't know him to speak of?
Did the information contradict what Ben had said in court, proving that he had committed perjury?
Did Bill buy the document for $10?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did Bill know of Ben, but had never met him?yes Or had met him once or twice, but didn't know him to speak of?not this
Did the information contradict what Ben had said in court, proving that he had committed perjury?yes
Did Bill buy the document for $10?yope
Grblizz (Grblizz)
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Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill buy an article of clothing containing the document in its pockets? A piece of furniture with the document in it or on it?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bill buy an article of clothing containing the document in its pockets?no A piece of furniture with the document in it or on it?no...but both of these are kind of on the right track
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document
a receipt for the purchase of something?
a bill of sale?
the record of some other transaction? a refund? an exchange? a trade?
a letter?
a memo?
the minutes of a meeting?
some sort of announcement [wedding? birth? death? divorce?]
a traffic? or parking ticket?
a will?
a deed?
a contract?
some other legal paper?
a bill?
a bank statement?


Had Ben
written the document completely?
written some part of it?
not written it at all, but signed it?
Neither written nor signed it?

Was the document contained in something else that Bill purchased? For example, had it been used as a bookmark, and left in the book when it was sold?

Should we find out what Ben said when he committed perjury? If yes, did he:

say he was somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was somewhere else at that time?

say he was somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was at that place at a different time?

say he was not somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was at that place at that time?

Say he did something?

Say he didn't do something?

Say that he knew or interacted with someone?

Say that he didn't know or didn't interact with someone?

Say that he knew some fact or item of information?

Say that he didn't know some fact or item of information?

Say that he hadn't owned? or sold? or bought? some item or piece of property?

Say that he had owned? or sold? or bought? some item or piece of property?

Say that he had agreed to do some act, and had done it?

Say that he had refused to do some act?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document
a receipt for the purchase of something? unlikely
a bill of sale? unlikely
the record of some other transaction? a refund? an exchange? a trade? unlikely
a letter? possibly
a memo? possibly
the minutes of a meeting? unlikely
some sort of announcement [wedding? birth? death? divorce?] no
a traffic? or parking ticket? no
a will? no
a deed? no
a contract? unlikely
some other legal paper? possibly
a bill? unlikely
a bank statement? unlikely


Had Ben
written the document completely? possibly
written some part of it? possibly
not written it at all, but signed it? possibly
Neither written nor signed it? possibly

Was the document contained in something else that Bill purchased?yes, but... For example, had it been used as a bookmark, and left in the book when it was sold? not like this

Should we find out what Ben said when he committed perjury?noish If yes, did he:

say he was somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was somewhere else at that time? unlikely

say he was somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was at that place at a different time? not likely

say he was not somewhere specific at a specific time, but the document proved that he was at that place at that time? not likely

Say he did something? possibly

Say he didn't do something? possibly

Say that he knew or interacted with someone? not likely

Say that he didn't know or didn't interact with someone? possibly

Say that he knew some fact or item of information? not likely

Say that he didn't know some fact or item of information? possibly

Say that he hadn't owned? or sold? or bought? some item or piece of property? possibly, but not likely

Say that he had owned? or sold? or bought? some item or piece of property? not likely

Say that he had agreed to do some act, and had done it? not likely

Say that he had refused to do some act? not likely

Sorry for the vague answers, but this is based on a true event and I'm not positive of all the specifics. The specific document and specific act of perjury are not terribly relevant. How Ben came into possession of the info is the main thing here.
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the document been sent from Ben to another person?
from another person to Ben?
From one person other than Ben to another person other than Ben?
If yes to the last one, was Ben even aware that the document existed before Bill made it public?

Had the document been deliberately hidden in the item that Bill bought? if yes, had it been hidden by Ben?
from Ben?
from someone other than Ben?

Or had it been forgotten?

Did Bill
buy the item that the document was in?
trade something for it?
have it given to him for free?
find it? [like finding a wallet on the street, or a briefcase on the bus?]
salvage it? [dumpster-diving? curb-shopping?]

Is it important that we determine what it was that Bill bought that had the letter/memo in it?
where he bought it?
who he bought it from?
how long the letter/memo had been in it when Bill bought it?

Are there any other relevant people beside Ben and Bill in this puzzle?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1365
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Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the document been sent from Ben to another person? possibly at some point
from another person to Ben? possibly
From one person other than Ben to another person other than Ben? possibly
If yes to the last one, was Ben even aware that the document existed before Bill made it public? YES

Had the document been deliberately hidden in the item that Bill bought? yope, explore if yes, had it been hidden by Ben? yes
from Ben? no
from someone other than Ben? yes

Or had it been forgotten? not likely

Did Bill
buy the item that the document was in? yesish
trade something for it? no
have it given to him for free? no
find it?no [like finding a wallet on the street, or a briefcase on the bus?]
salvage it?no [dumpster-diving? curb-shopping?]

Is it important that we determine what it was that Bill bought that had the letter/memo in it?yes
where he bought it? yope
who he bought it from? yes
how long the letter/memo had been in it when Bill bought it? noish

Are there any other relevant people beside Ben and Bill in this puzzle? yes
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Post Number: 1368
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Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 2:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Ben had previously had control of the document that Bill found and used to discredit him; Ben is the person who put the document in the item that Bill found it in; and Ben had placed the document there to hide it from some other person.

All right so far?

Had Ben also owned the item that the document was in? Did some other person own the item? did some organization own it? Did Ben rent the item from this other person or organization?

Yesish to "Bill bought the item that the document was in."
Is the -ish because the document wasn't in one item , but was in more than one? [for example, the document was in a wallet that was in a coat lining, and Bill bought the coat at a thrift store, not realizing that the wallet was there? or it was in a folder that was in a stack of presumed-empty folders in a file cabinet that he bought?]
Is the -ish because he didn't buy the item, he bought the contents of the item? [Around here, banks turn over the contents of abandoned safe-deposit boxes to the state, which holds them for a certain number of years, then auctions off the contents, except for personally identifiable items and legal documents. Anything like that?]

How many other relevant people besides Bill and Ben? Age, gender, occupation relevant for each?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1369
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Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Ben had previously had control of the document that Bill found and used to discredit him; Ben is the person who put the document in the item that Bill found it in; and Ben had placed the document there to hide it from some other person.

All right so far? Yesish

Had Ben also owned the item that the document was in?yope Did some other person own the item?yope did some organization own it?yope Did Ben rent the item from this other person or organization? yesish

Yesish to "Bill bought the item that the document was in."
Is the -ish because the document wasn't in one item , but was in more than one?yope [for example, the document was in a wallet that was in a coat lining, and Bill bought the coat at a thrift store, not realizing that the wallet was there? or it was in a folder that was in a stack of presumed-empty folders in a file cabinet that he bought?]
Is the -ish because he didn't buy the item, he bought the contents of the item?see next answer [Around here, banks turn over the contents of abandoned safe-deposit boxes to the state, which holds them for a certain number of years, then auctions off the contents, except for personally identifiable items and legal documents. Anything like that?Very, very much like this! Explore!]

How many other relevant people besides Bill and Ben?3, I suppose. They are all indirectly relevant. Age, gender, occupation relevant for each? Occupation only
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very very much like a safe-deposit box?
A you-store-it storage area?
The storage area that often comes along with an apartment -- a lockable area in the basement of the building?
a locker [at the gym, in a bus station, in a mall?]

Or very very much like the process I described?
a lost and found auction?
a Post Office unclaimed package sale?
a sheriff's sale/court-ordered bankruptcy sale?
a police seized-goods sale?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 1372
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Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very very much like a safe-deposit box? yesish
A you-store-it storage area? YES
The storage area that often comes along with an apartment -- a lockable area in the basement of the building? no
a locker [at the gym, in a bus station, in a mall?] no

Or very very much like the process I described? yes
a lost and found auction? no
a Post Office unclaimed package sale? no
a sheriff's sale/court-ordered bankruptcy sale? no
a police seized-goods sale? no
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should be 2 other relevant people, not 3
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm leaving this afternoon to go on a vacation through Monday. Please continue to ask questions, and I'll answer first thing Tuesday morning!
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hope you had a good vacay...

So, Bill bought the contents of Ben's old storage locker at auction?

Did Ben remember that the document was in the locker? Did Ben even remember that he had the locker or had he forgotten all about it?

The other two relevant people: is one of them
the owner of the locker yard?
the auctioneer?
an authenticator of some nature?
an appraiser?
a journalist?
an author?
someone else associated with news- or information-gathering?
a lawyer?
a judge?
a police officer?
someone else associated with law enforcement?

Was there even an auction, or did Bill have a standing deal with the owner of the storage yard to buy the contents of abandoned lockers?

Does it matter exactly where Bill found the document among the goods he bought? if so, was it: in an item of furniture? of clothing? in a box or bundle of other papers? in a box or bundle of miscellaneous other items? separate from everything else?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hope you had a good vacay... It was great! Thanks!

So, Bill bought the contents of Ben's old storage locker at auction? yes

Did Ben remember that the document was in the locker?probably Did Ben even remember that he had the locker or had he forgotten all about it?either is plausible...explore

The other two relevant people: is one of them
the owner of the locker yard? yes
the auctioneer? no
an authenticator of some nature? no
an appraiser? no
a journalist? yes
an author? no
someone else associated with news- or information-gathering? noish
a lawyer? no
a judge? no
a police officer? Well, come to think of it, yes. I guess that does make three.
someone else associated with law enforcement? no

Was there even an auction, or did Bill have a standing deal with the owner of the storage yard to buy the contents of abandoned lockers? There was an auction

Does it matter exactly where Bill found the document among the goods he bought?no if so, was it: in an item of furniture? of clothing? in a box or bundle of other papers?this in a box or bundle of miscellaneous other items? separate from everything else?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope you don't mind my doing these mini-recaps at the start of my posts. I find that it helps me keep things clearer than trying to re-sort all the information from the various posts...

Does the Storage Locker Owner have any relevance to the puzzle beyond the fact that he existed, and owned the locker?

Is the Journalist's relevance that Bill told him about? or showed him? the document? Is he relevant in more than that way? In some other way completely?

Is the Police Officer's relevance that Bill showed him the document? told him about it? gave it to him? Does he have more relevance to the puzzle than that? or is it something else entirely?

Ben knew that the document existed, and very possibly knew that it was in the storage locker, but he still allowed the contents to go to auction, right?
Did he not know that the document could expose his perjury?
not care that it could?
think that the perjury had been sufficiently long ago that he was safe even if the document was produced?
assume that no-one would go through all the papers in the locker and that the document would not be found?

I know that you can't know exactly what he was thinking, but I can't figure out why someone who had committed perjury would knowingly allow an incriminating document to be sold to who-knows-who, and that's leaving me rather up a tree. <grump>
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope you don't mind my doing these mini-recaps at the start of my posts. I find that it helps me keep things clearer than trying to re-sort all the information from the various posts... not at all

Does the Storage Locker Owner have any relevance to the puzzle beyond the fact that he existed, and owned the locker? yope

Is the Journalist's relevance that Bill told him about?yes or showed him?yes the document? Is he relevant in more than that way?yope In some other way completely? no

Is the Police Officer's relevance that Bill showed him the document?yope told him about it?yope gave it to him?yope Does he have more relevance to the puzzle than that?yope or is it something else entirely? not entirely...

Ben knew that the document existed, and very possibly knew that it was in the storage locker, but he still allowed the contents to go to auction, right? yope
Did he not know that the document could expose his perjury? he probably knew
not care that it could? no
think that the perjury had been sufficiently long ago that he was safe even if the document was produced? no
assume that no-one would go through all the papers in the locker and that the document would not be found? noish

I know that you can't know exactly what he was thinking, but I can't figure out why someone who had committed perjury would knowingly allow an incriminating document to be sold to who-knows-who, and that's leaving me rather up a tree. <grump> There may be an FA here...that could be what's throwing you off.
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hummmm. Hmmmm. And Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh, too. OK, going back to the very beginning and picking up some loose ends:


May 20th:

quote:

Did Bill yopeishly know Ben because Ben was famous? yesish notorious? yesish




The ish'es:
Bill yopeish knew Ben: he didn't know him personally, but he knew of him? recognised Ben's name?

because Ben was
only moderately famous/notorious?
only famous/notorious to people in a certain group?
in a certain profession?
with a certain interest?
of a certain age?
in a certain geographical area?


June 4th: "It had been deliberately hidden by Ben" got a yope. Please Yes or no each part individually:
It -- The document [singular]
had been [past]
deliberately [for the purpose of]
hidden [concealed]
by Ben.


Was the storage locker rented under a false name? Did Ben forget the name he had rented it under?

Is the FA that he "allowed" the contents of the locker to be sold? was he unable to prevent it?

Is the FA that there was only one document that could reveal his perjury? was there more than one?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hummmm. Hmmmm. And Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh, too. OK, going back to the very beginning and picking up some loose ends:


May 20th:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Did Bill yopeishly know Ben because Ben was famous? yesish notorious? yesish


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The ish'es:
Bill yopeish knew Ben: he didn't know him personally, but he knew of him?yes recognised Ben's name? yes

because Ben was
only moderately famous/notorious? yes
only famous/notorious to people in a certain group? yes
in a certain profession? noish
with a certain interest? noish
of a certain age? noish
in a certain geographical area? yesish

You can take all the noishes to mean it could possibly have an influence on whether a person knew of Ben, but not really. The yesish would mean that it's a major factor, but others could know of him too.

June 4th: "It had been deliberately hidden by Ben" got a yope. Please Yes or no each part individually:
It -- The document [singular] yes
had been [past] yes
deliberately [for the purpose of] yes
hidden [concealed] yes
by Ben. yes
The yope was because the question was worded as whether Ben deliberately hid the document IN THE ITEM THAT BILL BOUGHT...and a while Ben deliberatly put the document in the locker, Bill bought the contents of the locker, not the locker itself.


Was the storage locker rented under a false name?no Did Ben forget the name he had rented it under? no

Is the FA that he "allowed" the contents of the locker to be sold? yes was he unable to prevent it? yes, at least this is my understanding of events. He likely didn't know until after it happened.

Is the FA that there was only one document that could reveal his perjury?no was there more than one?possibly, but irrel
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the clarifications. I shall now go mull them over for a bit...
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, June 15, 2007 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the storage locker in a different location than where Ben was living?
Were the contents sold due to non-payment of the rental fees?
Had the owner of the locker tried to notify Ben that the contents were in danger of being sold but been unable to reach him?
Around here at least, there must be a good-faith effort to notify before the contents of a locker can be sold. But that could be as simple as a letter mailed to the address of record, or a call to the phone number of record. So it's not too difficult for someone who's moved to not be notified.
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the storage locker in a different location than where Ben was living? yes
Were the contents sold due to non-payment of the rental fees? YES
Had the owner of the locker tried to notify Ben that the contents were in danger of being sold but been unable to reach him? I would imagine so}
Around here at least, there must be a good-faith effort to notify before the contents of a locker can be sold. But that could be as simple as a letter mailed to the address of record, or a call to the phone number of record. So it's not too difficult for someone who's moved to not be notified.

I think that just about covers it really....

************SPOILER****************

Doug Guetzloe, one of central Florida's most prominent political operatives (and a subject of investigations by the Florida Elections Commission and a highway agency in Orlando), had long eluded criminal charges by denying any knowledge of unethical activities that prosecutors were sure he was involved in. However, late last year, Guetzloe missed a payment on his rental storage locker, and 50 boxes of his personal and professional records were seized and auctioned for $10 to a curious citizen, who then gave them to Orlando's WKMG-TV, which had several earlier investigations of Guetzloe still pending. Based on early readings of the storage-locker papers, Guetzloe was indicted for felony perjury in March, and the case continues. [WKMG-TV (Orlando), 3-28-07]

Good job Rabrab!
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle. Lots of directions that could have lead to finding the solution. And I see now where all the -ish'es were coming from.

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