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Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3261
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I had moved my hand 18 inches to the left and 12 inches higher I wouldn't have broken the law
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 57
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

left hand? right hand?
are you right-handed?

relavant where your hand was in relation to your body? a specific object? a person?
was something in your hand?
was your hand in a fist? open?
making a gesture? making an action?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 167
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The crime you were committing:

assault? battery?
black market?
blackmail? extortion?
breach of contract?
burglary? trespass?
computer crime?
destroying property? vandalism? arson?
eco-crime? poacher? cruelty to animals?
forgery? counterfeiting?
fraud? cardsharper? embezzlement?
homicide? murder? manslaughter? accidental killing?
identity theft?
illegal gambling?
illegal possesion or trade of objects or substances (weapons, drugs, ...)?
inchoate offense?
kidnapping?
libel? menace?
negligence? failure to render assistance?
perjury?
sexual offenses? sexual assault?
smuggling?
stealing? pickpocketing? looting? robbery? larceny? piracy?
subversive activities? dissident? incitement of the people?
terrorism?
traffic offence?
treason? disertion? espionage?
unfair competition?
violation of intellectual property rights or copyrights?
violation of privacy? stalking? disrupting the peace? harassment?
war crime?
white-collar crime? evasion?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3262
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:02 am:
left hand? right hand? right hand
are you right-handed? yes

relavant where your hand was in relation to your body? yes a specific object? yes a person? yes
was something in your hand? yes
was your hand in a fist? no open? no
making a gesture? no making an action? yes

Alex319 (Alex319)


Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 5:00 am:
The crime you were committing:

assault? battery?
black market?
blackmail? extortion?
breach of contract?
burglary? trespass?
computer crime?
destroying property? vandalism? arson?
eco-crime? poacher? cruelty to animals?
forgery? counterfeiting?
fraud? cardsharper? embezzlement?
homicide? murder? manslaughter? accidental killing?
identity theft?
illegal gambling? yes
illegal possesion or trade of objects or substances (weapons, drugs, ...)?
inchoate offense?
kidnapping?
libel? menace?
negligence? failure to render assistance?
perjury?
sexual offenses? sexual assault?
smuggling?
stealing? pickpocketing? looting? robbery? larceny? piracy?
subversive activities? dissident? incitement of the people?
terrorism?
traffic offence?
treason? disertion? espionage?
unfair competition?
violation of intellectual property rights or copyrights?
violation of privacy? stalking? disrupting the peace? harassment?
war crime?
white-collar crime? evasion?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were you playing poker? were you hiding a card?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3263
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:59 pm:
were you playing poker? no were you hiding a card? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 600
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this law in place everywhere or just in some places? If your hand had been in a different place would it have been over a state boundary or someting so the law would not apply? If your hand had been in the dfferent position so you hadn't broken the law, would wha you did have been considered morally right? Could somebody have been annoyed that you were let off breaking the law by the mere technicality of where your hand was? Is there a relevant object 18 inches to the left and 12 inches higher?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 325
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to start--where was your hand? below the waistline? at the waist? above the waist?

you are right handed, so are we talking about moving your right hand 18 inches to the left and up, so it would be over your left shoulder(in shape of half an x, like this "\"? or are we talking about moving your left hand 18 inches to the left and up 12 inches?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 326
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

forgot to ask, were you sitting or standing? driving? riding a bike? were you supposed to make a traffic signal with your arm and hand? did you turn or stop without making a signal?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3264
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Booklover

Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:42 pm:

Is this law in place everywhere or just in some places? certainly in the UK and I would imagine most other countries If your hand had been in a different place would it have been over a state boundary or someting so the law would not apply? no If your hand had been in the dfferent position so you hadn't broken the law, would wha you did have been considered morally right? yes Could somebody have been annoyed that you were let off breaking the law by the mere technicality of where your hand was? it's possible Is there a relevant object 18 inches to the left and 12 inches higher? yessish

Booklover (Booklover)

to start--where was your hand? below the waistline? at the waist? above the waist? this one

you are right handed, so are we talking about moving your right hand 18 inches to the left and up, so it would be over your left shoulder(in shape of half an x, like this "\"? yes or are we talking about moving your left hand 18 inches to the left and up 12 inches? in this particular situation it wouldn't work

Booklover (Booklover)

forgot to ask, were you sitting or standing? standing driving? riding a bike? were you supposed to make a traffic signal with your arm and hand? did you turn or stop without making a signal? none of those, although the last one is good thinking
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 64
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were you gambling?
would you have been gambling if your hand was in the "legal position"?
betting on a sport?

was your hand..
above your head?
in line with shoulders?
in front of you?
behind you?

was there a person at the "legal position"?
were you trying to put your hand in the "legal position"?

in your hand..
a communication device?
phone?
weapon?
document?
another object?
money? credit? check?
signalling device

the movement of your hand..
controlling? manipulating? throwing? operating?something
moving an object from A to B?

IF your hand was empty would you have broken the law?

if you had moved an empty hand to the legal position would you have broken the law?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Username: Emeraldink

Post Number: 222
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you have cards in your hand?

Would the person standing behind you be able to see what you held in your hand if you had moved it as described? Would he place an illegal bet?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3265
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 1:59 am:

were you gambling? no
would you have been gambling if your hand was in the "legal position"? no
betting on a sport? no

was your hand..
above your head? no
in line with shoulders? no
in front of you? no
behind you? no

was there a person at the "legal position"? yes
were you trying to put your hand in the "legal position"? no

in your hand..
a communication device?
phone?
weapon?
document? this is closest
another object?
money? this credit? check?
signalling device

the movement of your hand..
controlling? manipulating? throwing? operating?something
moving an object from A to B? this is closest

IF your hand was empty would you have broken the law? no

if you had moved an empty hand to the legal position would you have broken the law? no

Emeraldink (Emeraldink)


Did you have cards in your hand? no

Would the person standing behind you be able to see what you held in your hand if you had moved it as described? there was nobody standing behind me, but if there was, they would be able to see all Would he place an illegal bet? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 505
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you at an auction of some kind and if your hand was higher you would have been deemed to be bidding for something.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3266
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:59 am:

Were you at an auction of some kind and if your hand was higher you would have been deemed to be bidding for something. no
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 77
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did it appear that you accepted money from someone else?

were you trying to hand money to someone?

the factor that makes the legal position relevant is the person who was there?
if your hand was not in front or back of you then, to your side? right side? left side?

did it resemble gambling with cards? dice? the type of gambling that would happen in pubs?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3267
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:25 pm:

did it appear that you accepted money from someone else? yes

were you trying to hand money to someone? no

the factor that makes the legal position relevant is the person who was there? yes
if your hand was not in front or back of you then, to your side? right side? left side? sorry, blooper there, my hand WAS in front of me, but just in the wrong position

did it resemble gambling with cards? dice? the type of gambling that would happen in pubs? none of this and a FA is lurking
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 329
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did it look like a drug deal?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3268
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:20 pm:

did it look like a drug deal? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1039
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what gambling is illegal in the UK... would moving your hand have meant you were cheating at some sort of gambling?
Would you have been betting on a cockfight by moving your hand?

would moving your hand have meant that you were gambling, whereas not moving it meant that you weren't?
Was someone else relevant gambling?
Would it help to find out where you were? In a casino? a sports arena?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3269
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:26 am:

Hi John - how are things going?

I'm not sure what gambling is illegal in the UK...this is a forehead-slapper would moving your hand have meant you were cheating at some sort of gambling? no
Would you have been betting on a cockfight by moving your hand? no - yuck!

would moving your hand have meant that you were gambling, whereas not moving it meant that you weren't? no and a FA
Was someone else relevant gambling? YES
Would it help to find out where you were? very much so In a casino? a sports arena? not these
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

betting shop? was it inside? are animals involved in the gambling? sports? cards?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3270
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:16 am:

betting shop? no was it inside? yes are animals involved in the gambling? no sports? no or only very very indirectly cards? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 506
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the other person there a minor i.e. under 18? Was it a bingo game? were you holding a bingo card?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:54 am:

Is the other person there a minor i.e. under 18? YES, well done, with a small FA Was it a bingo game? no were you holding a bingo card? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would a minor in this context be under 16? Was there more than one other person there?
Were you in a pub? In someone's house? In a place where people often gamble?
Would the "illegal gambling" have been illegal because the person gambling was a minor?
Are slot machines involved?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 330
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were you giving money to a person in the "legal position" but it looked like you were giving money to the minor?

did you give money to the minor so that the minor could pass money to the person in the "legal position"?

is the relationship between you, the minor, and the person in the "legal position" relevant? if so, were you friends? relatives? acquaintances? did you even know each other?

were you observed "breaking the law"? were you spoken to (reprimanded)? ejected from the establishment? did you try to "explain yourself"?

are these questions on the right track? off the right track?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3272
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:08 pm:

would a minor in this context be under 16? yes Was there more than one other person there? yes
Were you in a pub? no In someone's house? no In a place where people often gamble? yes
Would the "illegal gambling" have been illegal because the person gambling was a minor? YES
Are slot machines involved? no

Booklover (Booklover)
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Username: Booklover

were you giving money to a person in the "legal position" but it looked like you were giving money to the minor? no...

did you give money to the minor so that the minor could pass money to the person in the "legal position"? no...

is the relationship between you, the minor, and the person in the "legal position" relevant? yes if so, were you friends? no relatives? no acquaintances? noish did you even know each other? no

were you observed "breaking the law"? yes were you spoken to (reprimanded)? no ejected from the establishment? no did you try to "explain yourself"? only here!

are these questions on the right track? yes off the right track? very close - between the two of you these last questions should move things along nicely
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 507
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are lotteries or scratch cards relevant? Were you in a shop? Were you going to allow the minor to scratch the card for fun? good luck?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 331
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did you give money to the minor to bet? did you place a bet for the minor?

did you buy something for the minor to use to gamble? was it a lottery of some sort? did you buy a lottery card?

did the minor ask you to do this for him/her?

so, basically you "broke the law," but even though you were observed, no one really bothered you about it, correct?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 332
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry--I didn't even see Peter's questions! Didn't mean to duplicate them!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:48 pm:

Are lotteries or scratch cards relevant? YES, lottery Were you in a shop? YES Were you going to allow the minor to scratch the card for fun? no good luck? no

Booklover (Booklover)
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Username: Booklover


did you give money to the minor to bet? no did you place a bet for the minor? yes

did you buy something for the minor to use to gamble? no was it a lottery of some sort? yes did you buy a lottery card? no

did the minor ask you to do this for him/her? yes

so, basically you "broke the law," but even though you were observed, no one really bothered you about it, correct? essentially, yes

Booklover (Booklover)

sorry--I didn't even see Peter's questions! Didn't mean to duplicate them! no probs

There is still a FA and more information to find from the original statement
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 333
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did you work at the shop?
did you sell the lottery card to the minor?
did you give the lottery card to the minor?

if you didn't work at the shop, did you give the minor one of your cards? did the minor buy one of your cards from you?

btw...did the minor win anything?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 6:46 pm:

did you work at the shop? YES
did you sell the lottery card to the minor? yes
did you give the lottery card to the minor? YES

if you didn't work at the shop, did you give the minor one of your cards? did the minor buy one of your cards from you?

btw...did the minor win anything? no idea!

so the final bit to get is how I would have avoided breaking the law by moving my hand in the above way
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you would have given the ticket to an adult standing behind the minor?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:38 pm:

you would have given the ticket to an adult standing behind the minor? exactly - well, he was standing to the side of her

********* SPOILER *********

I saw a father and daughter writing out a lottery slip and just knew that it would be the child who would offer it to me. In accepting it and the money I was breaking the law. By insisting that the father give it to me, I would have avoided breaking the law.


In actuality, I accepted the slip from the child but made sure that I gave the printed form to her father in exchange for the money. But that would have made it too complicated to make into a puzzle statement, so I went with the easier version!

Thank you one and all - a good team effort
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3276
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:38 pm:

you would have given the ticket to an adult standing behind the minor? exactly - well, he was standing to the side of her

********* SPOILER *********

I saw a father and daughter writing out a lottery slip and just knew that it would be the child who would offer it to me. In accepting it and the money I was breaking the law. By insisting that the father give it to me, I would have avoided breaking the law.


In actuality, I accepted the slip from the child but made sure that I gave the printed form to her father in exchange for the money. But that would have made it too complicated to make into a puzzle statement, so I went with the easier version!

Thank you one and all - a good team effort
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 509
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Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nice puzzle lynne. I sometimes let my daughters pick my lottery numbers but strangely I still don't appear to be a millionaire.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3277
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Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Peter! You'd be a millionaire if your kid's birthday was different, in fact if she had been born in a different year, you'd chosen a different partner/wife, if your 'lucky' number was 2 different to the one you pick, and if you moved across the street and used that house number - THEN you'd win, because the numbers you DO pick are so close, but not close enough. Right??
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 511
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Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eh i think you've cracked the Peter not winning the lottery puzzle. In truth i'd be a terrible millionaire i'd blow it all on Larson cartoons and King novels (all signed and gold plated of course)

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