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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 622
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They survived by the narrowest margin
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they human?
One person? Two people? Three people? Four? Five? More?
Gender relevant? Male? Female? One male and one female?
Is margin literal?
Did they survive because of a margin?
Is this one specific event? Is this an ongoing scenario (ie: they continue to survive)?
Were they near death?
Is this fiction? Historical?
Time period relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 624
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they human? yes
One person? Two people? Three people? Four? Five? More? more
Gender relevant? no Male? Female? One male and one female? Irr
Is margin literal? no
Did they survive because of a margin? no
Is this one specific event? yes an ongoing scenario (ie: they continue to survive)? no
Were they near death? Lets just say they had a close encounter with death. You might rephrase that question
Is this fiction? no Historical? i'll say noish would depend on your definition of history. To me what i had for breakfast this morning is history
Time period relevant? yes
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 5
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" a civilization? A town? A village? A race?

Does this take place in the future? The present? The past?
21st century?
20th century?
19th century?
18th century?
Earlier?

Were they going to be killed by a force of nature? Starvation? Poisoning? Dehydration? Other people? Animals?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 625
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" a civilization? A town? A village? A race? none of these . Just a random group of people

Does this take place in the future? The present? The past? this one
21st century?
20th century? this
19th century?
18th century?
Earlier?

Were they going to be killed by a force of nature? Starvation? Poisoning? Dehydration? Other people? this one Animals?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they escape death because the other people decided not to kill them? Because they managed to kill the other people? Because the other people couldn't find them to kill them?
Were the other people going to kill them deliberately? Is the other people's motive for killing them relevant?
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 8
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the people traveling?
Were they together?
Did they know each other?
Did they know the people who were going to kill them?
Did they know they were at risk for being killed?
Did they do something to save themselves?
Did some outside force save them?
Is the location relevant? Country relevant? Geographical location? Indoor/Outdoor? Are there multiple locations involved? Terrain? Weather conditions? Cultural differences?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 626
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they escape death because the other people decided not to kill them? no Because they managed to kill the other people? no Because the other people couldn't find them to kill them? no
Were the other people going to kill them deliberately? yes Is the other people's motive for killing them relevant? yesish
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 447
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are weapons relevant?
armies?
militia?
organized crime?
any crime?
governmant?
is it before? during? after? WWII
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 627
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are weapons relevant? yesish
armies? no
militia? yesish
organized crime? no
any crime? yes
governmant? no
is it before? during? after? WWII after
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 448
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

don't forget Christine's important questions as I was going to ask a couple of them but didn't want to repeat : )
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 628
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

don't forget Christine's important questions as I was going to ask a couple of them but didn't want to repeat : ) apologies that posted while i was responding to another post

Were the people traveling? yes
Were they together? yes
Did they know each other? some people would have known each other but not all
Did they know the people who were going to kill them? no
Did they know they were at risk for being killed? no
Did they do something to save themselves? no
Did some outside force save them? can you define outside force
Is the location relevant? yes Country will help you to solve but not essential relevant? yes with a hint of ish Geographical location? yesish Indoor/Outdoor? i'm not being funny but i can't answer that. I'd plump for indoor but many would disagree Are there multiple locations involved? no Terrain? no Weather conditions? no Cultural differences? yope
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 13
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the people survive because a third party of other people intervened? Because a law changed? Because something killed the people that were going to kill them? Because something detained the people that were going to kill them? Because of law enforcement?
Is it important where they were traveling? To where and from where?
Indoor/outdoor is hard to answer.. because it's inside something not-manmade? A cave? A whale's belly?
United States, Other North America, Central America, South America, Asia, Africa, Antarctica, Europe, Australia?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 629
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the people survive because a third party of other people intervened? no Because a law changed? no Because something killed the people that were going to kill them? no Because something detained the people that were going to kill them? no Because of law enforcement? not this either
Is it important where they were traveling? no To where and from where? from where gives it some context i guess
Indoor/outdoor is hard to answer.. because it's inside something not-manmade? no A cave? no A whale's belly? no
United States, Other North America, Central America, South America, Asia, Africa, Antarctica, Europethis Australia?
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a war important to the solution?
Was the group of people that wanted to kill them trying to defend territory?
A crime was involved. Had the people that were going to be killed committed a crime? Would it have been a crime if they had been killed? Were they trying to escape from something? Was their travelling a crime? Were the people who were going to kill them criminals?
Do the people that were going to be killed all have something in common? A physical characteristic? A political belief? A nationality?
Do the people that were going to do the killing have something in common? A physical characteristic? A political belief? A nationality?
Was this in Northern Europe? Southern Europe? Eastern Europe? Western Europe?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 450
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 4:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the ones trying to kill have a way of identifying the group? would they know the target group if they saw them?
would they have had the names of everyone in the target group?
relevant in what way they would have wanted to kill them?
is prison relevant?
Suido (Suido)
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Post Number: 73
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the gtoup selected to die at random?
or for a reason?

were they in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 630
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Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a war important to the solution? yesish
Was the group of people that wanted to kill them trying to defend territory? no
A crime was involved. Had the people that were going to be killed committed a crime? no Would it have been a crime if they had been killed? yesWere they trying to escape from something? noWas their travelling a crime? no Were the people who were going to kill them criminals? yesish. This may be a matter of opinion so explore
Do the people that were going to be killed all have something in common? no A physical characteristic? A political belief? A nationality?
Do the people that were going to do the killing have something in common? yes A physical characteristic? A political belief? this A nationality? this also
Was this in Northern Europe? Southern Europe? Eastern Europe? Western Europe? this one
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 631
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Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixtyeight
did the ones trying to kill have a way of identifying the group? yope would they know the target group if they saw them? no. Small element of an FA lurking here
would they have had the names of everyone in the target group? unlikely
relevant in what way they would have wanted to kill them? very
is prison relevant? no

Suido
was the gtoup selected to die at random? noish
or for a reason? yes

were they in the wrong place at the wrong time? yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 473
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they have a specific group of people in mind whom they wanted to kill?
was it planned?
did they have an idea where to find the ones they wanted to kill?
would they have wanted to first apprehend and then eventually kill?
or kill immediately on sight?
were they trying to kill with firearms?
ballistics?
chemicals?
machinery?
poison?
by leading them to somewhere hazardous?
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 41
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Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that there was no specific target group? Were the killers killing people at random who were not of their nationality? Does this have anything to do with eugenics? Nazis relevant? Skinheads relevant?

Or, other thought...

Were the killers terrorists? Is this an act of terrorism? The victims were traveling, so were they using public transportation? Anything to do with the London bombings (they were in 2005, so that's the 21st century not the 20th century that was established earlier, but maybe it's along similar lines)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 633
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they have a specific group of people in mind whom they wanted to kill? yope
was it planned? yes
did they have an idea where to find the ones they wanted to kill? yes
would they have wanted to first apprehend and then eventually kill? no
or kill immediately on sight? kill immediately yes- on sight no
were they trying to kill with firearms? no
ballistics? emm not sure where it might fit in. maybe rephrase this
chemicals? no
machinery? no
poison? no
by leading them to somewhere hazardous? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 634
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that there was no specific target group? there wasn't a specific target group Were the killers killing people at random who were not of their nationality? element of killing at randon. With regard to nationality they would not have known each member of the group's. Does this have anything to do with eugenics? sorry for my ignorance but what's that Nazis relevant? no Skinheads relevant? no

Or, other thought...

Were the killers terrorists? yes. In hindsight the answer to the crime question should have been a resounding yes . Apologies Is this an act of terrorism? yes The victims were traveling, so were they using public transportation? no Anything to do with the London bombings no(they were in 2005, so that's the 21st century not the 20th century that was established earlier, but maybe it's along simi well it's similar in that it's an act of terrorism on innocent people. It's just not as random
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 44
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think it has anything to do with the puzzle anymore, but since you asked, here's an excerpt from Wikipedia about eugenics: Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention. The goals of various groups advocating eugenics have been to create healthier, more intelligent people, to save society's resources, and lessen human suffering. More controversially, some, such as the Nazi regime in Germany, have sought to use it to preserve and enhance supposed "racial purity"...Some types of eugenics, such as race-based eugenics and class-based eugenics, are sometimes called 'pseudo-eugenics' by proponents of strict eugenics that deals only with perceived beneficial and detrimental genetic traits...Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler was infamous for eugenics programs which attempted to maintain a "pure" German race through a series of programs that ran under the banner of "racial hygiene".

I only asked about it because you mentioned that the people doing the killing were all of the same nationality/political belief, and also since when I asked "were the people who were going to kill them criminals? You said "yesish" and called it a matter of opinion, so I thought maybe it was a situation like in Nazi Germany where killing people for the sake of eugenics was enforced by the government, so not technically a crime in their country, but a crime to the rest of the world and a crime against humanity.
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Back to the indoor/outdoor question being hard to answer... were they inside something that was outdoors? Like a plane, boat, or cars?
Were the terrorists trying to kill them with a bomb? Or by crashing a plane?
Was anybody killed? Did the terrorists survive? Did the terrorists' plan fail?
Were the people that survived about to travel to a place that was bombed/attacked/destroyed, and they barely missed being killed?
Is the puzzle referring to an actual specific event? Was this in the 1990s? 1980s? 1970s? 1960s? 1950s?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant..
trains?
subway?
bus?
ferry?
public transportation?
public place?
Europe?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Back to the indoor/outdoor question being hard to answer... were they inside something that was outdoors? yes Like a plane the very thing, boat, or cars?
Were the terrorists trying to kill them with a bomb? yes Or by crashing a plane? no
Was anybody killed? no Did the terrorists survive? yesDid the terrorists' plan fail? yes
Were the people that survived about to travel to a place that was bombed/attacked/destroyed, and they barely missed being killed? no
Is the puzzle referring to an actual specific event? yes Was this in the 1990s? 1980s? 1970s? this 1960s? 1950s?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think it has anything to do with the puzzle anymore, but since you asked, here's an excerpt from Wikipedia about eugenics: Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention. The goals of various groups advocating eugenics have been to create healthier, more intelligent people, to save society's resources, and lessen human suffering. More controversially, some, such as the Nazi regime in Germany, have sought to use it to preserve and enhance supposed "racial purity"...Some types of eugenics, such as race-based eugenics and class-based eugenics, are sometimes called 'pseudo-eugenics' by proponents of strict eugenics that deals only with perceived beneficial and detrimental genetic traits...Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler was infamous for eugenics programs which attempted to maintain a "pure" German race through a series of programs that ran under the banner of "racial hygiene". thanks for the explanation and you're right it has nothing to do with this puzzle

I only asked about it because you mentioned that the people doing the killing were all of the same nationality/political belief, and also since when I asked "were the people who were going to kill them criminals? You said "yesish" and called it a matter of opinion, so I thought maybe it was a situation like in Nazi Germany where killing people for the sake of eugenics was enforced by the government, so not technically a crime in their country, but a crime to the rest of the world and a crime against humanity. i hope i've cleared up the crime issue. Any right minded person would say it was a crime but certain people would have viewed it as a legitimate act of war
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the plane depart from Europe? USA? Mid East? Asia?
was the plane originally headed for Europe? USA? Mid East? Asia?
was the bomb in the luggage area?
in a suitcase?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the plane depart from Europe? yesUSA? Mid East? Asia?
was the plane originally headed for Europe? yes USA? Mid East? Asia?
was the bomb in the luggage area? location of the bomb is not relevant so lets say it was in a suitcase
in a suitcase?
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did some part of the plane protect them from death? like the wing? the fuselage? other?

did the plane get airborne? was the bomb detonated?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there any terrorists on board?
did the plane land in Europe?
relevant which European nations are involved?
relevant which nation they were acting out against?
So what's left of the puzzle is why the terrorist plan didn't go off? or is there something else?
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 4:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a case of hijacking?
Was the terrorists' plan foiled in midair?
Were the terrorists Irish? Arab? Palestinian? Black September? Basque? Puerto Rican? RMS?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did some part of the plane protect them from death? no like the wing? the fuselage? other?

did the plane get airborne? yes was the bomb detonated? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there any terrorists on board? no
did the plane land in Europe? yes
relevant which European nations are involved? yes but only to give the story context
relevant which nation they were acting out against? see above
So what's left of the puzzle is why the terrorist plan didn't go off? yes that's all you have to establish or is there something else? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a case of hijacking? no
Was the terrorists' plan foiled in midair? yes but foiled may not be the best way to describe what happened
Were the terrorists Irish? this Arab? Palestinian? Black September? Basque? Puerto Rican? RMS? what does this stand for
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

explore technical reasons as to why their bomb did not explode?
or did the bomb not make it on to the plane?
did it have an electronic timer?
did a passenger or crew unknowingly thwart the plans?
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the bomb fail to explode? Did the bomb smoke? Did the bomb do anything at all? Was the bomb on the plane?
Was the failure due to a "mechanical error" (like the bomb itself not working) or a "human error" (like being placed incorrectly, set up incorrectly, or not triggered at the right moment)?
Was the bomb discovered before the plane took off? In midair? After landing?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

explore technical reasons as to why their bomb did not explode? yes
or did the bomb not make it on to the plane? it did
did it have an electronic timer? yes
did a passenger or crew unknowingly thwart the plans? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the bomb fail to explode? yes Did the bomb smoke? no Did the bomb do anything at all? no Was the bomb on the plane? yes
Was the failure due to a "mechanical error" (like the bomb itself not working) or a "human error" (like being placed incorrectly, set up incorrectly, or not triggered at the right moment)? human error -set up incorrectly is closest
Was the bomb discovered before the plane took off? In midair? After landing? this one
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a failure of the timer?
is a phone call relevant?
is there a clue in the the title "close call"?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a failure of the timer? no
is a phone call relevant? no
is there a clue in the the title "close call"? only that they had a very narrow escape
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the bomb itself was incorrectly assembled?

did the terrorists place the bomb on the plane, or was it carried on by ground crew - in a bag perhaps?

in either case, was the bomb in a location that prevented it detonating for some reason?
did the timer work properly?
was the timer affected by being to near magnets?
did the altitude and change in air pressure affect the bomb?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 658
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Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the bomb itself was incorrectly assembled? yes

did the terrorists place the bomb on the plane, or was it carried on by ground crew - in a bag perhaps? irr. I think they planted it amongst some genuine luggage which was then loaded onto the plane

in either case, was the bomb in a location that prevented it detonating for some reason? no
did the timer work properly? yes
was the timer affected by being to near magnets? no
did the altitude and change in air pressure affect the bomb? no
Christine (Christine)
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Post Number: 48
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Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were wires crossed incorrectly?
Fuse problem? Detonator problem?
Was the bomb missing something?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 659
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Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were wires crossed incorrectly? no
Fuse problem? no Detonator problem? yesish
Was the bomb missing something? no
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 319
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Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "narrowest margin" referred to in the puzzle statement:

...was it a margin of time? less than 10 seconds? 1 minute? 10 minutes? 1 hour? The length of time after the plane landed that bomb was found? that the bomb went off? the amount of time left on the bomb when it was disarmed? or moved to a safe location?

...was it a "margin" as in distance? Less than 1 mm? 1 cm? 1 m? 1 km? Was the distance the distance between parts of the bomb itself? Was a part of the bomb misaligned or had a bad connection, and that's why it didn't go off?

Was the timer set to the wrong time? Because of confusion about time zones? Or Daylight Savings Time?

(I think that in the Darwin Awards there was a story where a terrorist set up a car bomb and had another terrorist be the driver, but the person who set up the bomb forgot to take DST into account, so it blew up en route to the target location.)
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "narrowest margin" referred to in the puzzle statement:

...was it a margin of time? no less than 10 seconds? 1 minute? 10 minutes? 1 hour? The length of time after the plane landed that bomb was found? that the bomb went off? the amount of time left on the bomb when it was disarmed? or moved to a safe location? so no to these

...was it a "margin" as in distance? yesish Less than 1 mm? this 1 cm? 1 m? 1 km? Was the distance the distance between parts of the bomb itself? yesish Was a part of the bomb misaligned or had a bad connection, and that's why it didn't go off? not misaligned but defective unbeknownst to the bomber

Was the timer set to the wrong time? no Because of confusion about time zones? no but nice thinking Or Daylight Savings Time? no

(I think that in the Darwin Awards there was a story where a terrorist set up a car bomb and had another terrorist be the driver, but the person who set up the bomb forgot to take DST into account, so it blew up en route to the target location.)a tragic loss i'm sure. The Darwin awards would be a rich source of laterals except most of them are a bit too well known
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 686
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Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This has gone a bit stale so i'll post a hint.

The bomb failed to off due to the presence of something on one of the bomb's components.
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 535
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Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the "something" supposed to be a part of the bomb?
was it put there intentionally? or accidentally? by one of the terrorists?
was it a possession of the terrorist which accidentally fell in the bomb bag?
is magnetic attraction relevant?
did it cause components of the bomb to disconnect?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 687
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Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the "something" supposed to be a part of the bomb? it was present in a part of the bomb but shouldn't have been given that it prevented it from going off
was it put there intentionally? no or accidentally? yes. but it wasn't really put there. it just happened to be presentby one of the terrorists? yes
was it a possession of the terrorist which accidentally fell in the bomb bag? no
is magnetic attraction relevant? no
did it cause components of the bomb to disconnect? no
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the part of the bomb it was present in...

...the timer?
...electrical circuitry?
...the detonator?
...the explosive itself?

The something - was it a physical object? Was it made of metal? Plastic? Was it a speck of dust?
Suido (Suido)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it part of a component of the bomb, which should have been removed from the component prior to construction of the bomb?

did it physically prevent the bomb from exploding?
eg prevent a necessary movement by a component?
or impede the reaction that would cause detonation?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 688
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Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the part of the bomb it was present in...

...the timer? yes
...electrical circuitry? and this too
...the detonator? yes
...the explosive itself? no

The something - was it a physical object? yesish wouldn't describe it as an object Was it made of metal? Plastic? neither Was it a speck of dust? no but otrt
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it part of a component of the bomb, which should have been removed from the component prior to construction of the bomb? it should have been if the bomber knew it was there

did it physically prevent the bomb from exploding? yes
eg prevent a necessary movement by a component? yesish
or impede the reaction that would cause detonation? yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when the timer reached zero hour, does it send a signal to the explosive?
did something prevent that signal?
is a wire disconected? any relevant open circuit? (getting technical) short circuit?
battery relevant?

water relevant? moisture? condensation? corrosion?
weather relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 690
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Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when the timer reached zero hour, does it send a signal to the explosive? noish
did something prevent that signal? something prevented something from happening but it depends on your definition of a signal
is a wire disconected? no any relevant open circuit? yes(getting technical) short circuit? but not a short circuit
battery relevant?

water relevant? no moisture? condensation? corrosion? no to all
weather relevant? no
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 558
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Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In my cinema-influenced imagination.. the signal would be adequate voltage going to the incendiary portion of the bomb. :-]
did this fail to happen?
did anything relevant interrupt the electronic signal?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In my cinema-influenced imagination.. the signal would be adequate voltage going to the incendiary portion of the bomb. :-] you're right. Thank god for Die hard , Lethal Weapon etc
did this fail to happen? yes
did anything relevant interrupt the electronic signal? yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess the relevant thing interrupting the signal is the not really an object / on the right track of speck-of-dust thingie we're looking for.
could this have been seen by the one who assembled the bomb (with naked eye)?
any way the assembler could have detected the presence of this item? the defect?
is the interrupting item microscopic?
did it interrupt at a point where two wires come togtether?
did it interrupt at a point where a wire attaches to a device? attaches to something?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess the relevant thing interrupting the signal is the not really an object / on the right track of speck-of-dust thingie we're looking for.
could this have been seen by the one who assembled the bomb (with naked eye)? yes it could
any way the assembler could have detected the presence of this item? yes the defect? well the defect is the presence of the item so yes
is the interrupting item microscopic? no
did it interrupt at a point where two wires come togtether? not wires no
did it interrupt at a point where a wire attaches to a device? no attaches to something? no
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the item reduce teh voltage somehow? eg a lightbulb in series, reducing the voltage that reaches the incediary?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the item reduce teh voltage somehow? no eg a lightbulb in series, reducing the voltage that reaches the incediary? fraid not
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant whether the item is electrically conductive? non-conductive? something in-between?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant whether the item is electrically conductive? yes non-conductive? this too something in-between? yesish
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it consideed a good conductor? poor conductor? neither?
is it, to your knowledge, used in electronics?
is it something like a a switch?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it consideed a good conductor? no poor conductor? noish neither? this most likely but it stopped the electronic circuit being completed
is it, to your knowledge, used in electronics? no
is it something like a a switch? no
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item a naturally occurring element? A naturally occurring compound? A man-made compound? A mixture?

Is the item visible to the naked eye? Transparent? Translucent?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item a naturally occurring element? no A naturally occurring compound? no A man-made compound? A mixture? sorry but i'm not too sure whether it's a mixture or a compound. If I had to guess i'd say mixture. It is man made though

Is the item visible to the naked eye? yes Transparent? Translucent? no to these
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the item knowingly used by the terrorists in the construction or preparation of the bomb?

Was the bomb disguised as an object (e.g., a clock radio) inside luggage, or simply stowed as is within luggage? If disguised, is it relevant what the bomb was disguised as (as far as determining what preventing the bomb from being triggered)?

Was the prevention of the triggering of the bomb instantaneous (e.g., the item somehow severed a wire), or gradual (e.g., the item caused a slow decay of wires or components)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the item knowingly used by the terrorists in the construction or preparation of the bomb? NO

Was the bomb disguised as an object (e.g., a clock radio) inside luggage, or simply stowed as is within luggage? simply stowed away If disguised, is it relevant what the bomb was disguised as (as far as determining what preventing the bomb from being triggered)? see above

Was the prevention of the triggering of the bomb instantaneous (e.g., the item somehow severed a wire), or gradual (e.g., the item caused a slow decay of wires or components)? the intervention was instantaneous but not along the lines you have suggested
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item found in ordinary households?

Is the item a solid, a gel, a liquid?

If a solid, is the item rigid? Flexible? Can its dimensions change through folding, wadding, squeezing, etc?

If a solid, is the item assembled from two or more component parts? Is it intended for disassembly?

If a solid, is the item cubic? Spherical? Oblong? Flat? Irregularly shaped?

If a solid, is the item the approximate size of:
The head of a pin?
The eraser on a pencil?
A pea?
A single die?
A large grape?
A golf ball?
A tennis ball?
Larger?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item found in ordinary households? yes

Is the item a solid, a gel, a liquid? liquid initially

If a solid, is the item rigid? Flexible? Can its dimensions change through folding, wadding, squeezing, etc? dimensions can change but not by these methods

If a solid, is the item assembled from two or more component parts? Is it intended for disassembly? not a solid

If a solid, is the item cubic? Spherical? Oblong? Flat? Irregularly shaped?

If a solid, is the item the approximate size of:
The head of a pin?
The eraser on a pencil?
A pea?
A single die?
A large grape?
A golf ball?
A tennis ball?
Larger? so no to these as well
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it water, which froze into ice after the plane ascended?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it water, which froze into ice after the plane ascended? no but a nice idea
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item some kind of lubricant (e.g, oil)?

Is the item some kind of finish (e.g., paint/varnish)?

Is the item combustible?

Is the item some kind of cleaner (e.g., Lysol)?

Is the item some kind of consumable (e.g., milk, ketchup)?

Is the item some kind of hygiene product (e.g., toothpaste, mouthwash)?

Does the fact that the terrorists did not know of the item's presence have to do with (a) the item being hidden or obscured by other bomb components; (b) the item's presence being hidden or obscured by other items within the luggage during stowage; (c) the state of the item (liquid/solid) at the time the bomb was constructed? or stowed?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 736
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Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item some kind of lubricant (e.g, oil)? no but help is at hand

Is the item some kind of finish (e.g., paint this one . WELL DONE/varnish)?

Is the item combustible? see above

Is the item some kind of cleaner (e.g., Lysol)?

Is the item some kind of consumable (e.g., milk, ketchup)?

Is the item some kind of hygiene product (e.g., toothpaste, mouthwash)?

Does the fact that the terrorists did not know of the item's presence have to do with (a) the item being hidden or obscured by other bomb components; no(b) the item's presence being hidden or obscured by other items within the luggage during stowage; no (c) the state of the item (liquid/solid) at the time the bomb was constructed? or stowed? neither. I guess they just didn't notice
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So something was painted and the terrorists didn't notice.

Was it the battery terminals? The wire leads connected to the battery terminals? The wire leads connected to the detonator/blasting cap?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So something was painted and the terrorists didn't notice. yes

Was it the battery terminals? The wire leads connected to the battery terminals? The wire leads connected to the detonator/blasting cap? none of these but you're getting close
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the timer painted? Or perhaps the wire leads on the timer?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the timer painted? Or perhaps the wire leads on the timer? neither of these i'm afraid. Remember electrical circuitry is relevant
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The detonator (or a component thereof) was painted? Something which prevented the detonator's primary charge from exploding?
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 4:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is probably a very silly question... but... Was a part of the bomb painted instead of actually constructed? Like a wire was painted instead of actually existing? So it could not conduct electricity?

Or was the end of some metallic object painted, so it stopped the electrical flow?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The detonator (or a component thereof) was painted? noish Something which prevented the detonator's primary charge from exploding? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is probably a very silly question... but... Was a part of the bomb painted instead of actually constructed? no but a very interesting thought and by the way there are no silly questions on the forum. Like a wire was painted instead of actually existing? So it could not conduct electricity? so no to these also

Or was the end of some metallic object painted, so it stopped the electrical flow? exactly right. Now can you guess what it was
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what specific kind of detonator was used?

Relevant what kind of explosive charge was used?

Did the electrical current from the timer and battery reach the detonator?

Did the detonator's primary charge explode?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what specific kind of detonator was used? no

Relevant what kind of explosive charge was used? no

Did the electrical current from the timer and battery reach the detonator? no and that's the key to solving

Did the detonator's primary charge explode? so no
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the bombers paint anything?
is spray paint relevant? brush?
paint color relevant? clear lacquer?
was one of the components purchased with the relevant paint already on it?
was the paint wet? dry? glossy? flat?

was there a circuit board? plug? socket?
how about cheap alligator clips from Radio Shack?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the bombers paint anything? NO
is spray paint relevant? brush? no
paint color relevant? no clear lacquer? irr
was one of the components purchased with the relevant paint already on it? possibly but probably no
was the paint wet? dry? this glossy? flat? emmm please explain

was there a circuit board? no plug? no socket? no
how about cheap alligator clips from Radio Shack? lol but no
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the "finish" of the paint relevant? (whether the paint is reflective (glossy) or dull (flat) or another type of finish?
are any other properties of the paint relevant?
anything revealing about how the paint got where it didn't belong?
or did it belong there?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the "finish" of the paint relevant? (whether the paint is reflective (glossy) or dull (flat) or another type of finish? irr
are any other properties of the paint relevant? apart from the fact that it doesn't conduct
anything revealing about how the paint got where it didn't belong? no. I actually don't know how it got there
or did it belong there? no
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a component or electromechanical device between the battery/timer and the detonator?

If so, was it a switch? A button? A digital display? An LED or other type of light? A rotary knob (potentiometer)? A speaker, buzzer, or other audio output device? An integrated circuit? Some other type of electronic component?

If so, was this intermediary component or device itself painted?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a component or electromechanical device between the battery/timer and the detonator? a connection lets say

If so, was it a switch? A button? A digital display? An LED or other type of light? A rotary knob (potentiometer)? A speaker, buzzer, or other audio output device? An integrated circuit? this is closest though i should point out i'm no electrician Some other type of electronic component?

If so, was this intermediary component or device itself painted? a part of the device
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it perhaps a breadboard (socket board), Veroboard (stripboard), or tag board (terminal strip), or similar electronic prototyping circuit board?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it perhaps a breadboard (socket board), Veroboard (stripboard), or tag board (terminal strip), or similar electronic prototyping circuit board? as i've said i'm no electrician and i don't think i should risk answering the above in case i commit a blooper. I'll respond by saying that the timing device also acted as the trigger to complete the circuit thus sending the electrical signal to the detonator. I'd guess you define the timing device as fairly crude
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm swinging back to my original thought... was the circuit completed by the hands of the clock... but the clock was one of these glow in the dark ones with luminous paint on the tips... thus killing the circuit?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm swinging back to my original thought... was the circuit completed by the hands of the clock..yes it was actually a watch but the clock was one of these glow in the dark ones with luminous paint on the tips... thus killing the circuit? terrific idea but no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did the hands of the watch have a varnish of some kind on them?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did the hands of the watch have a varnish of some kind on them? no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was it the hands that were to blame or another part of the mechanism?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was it the hands that were to blame or another part of the mechanism? not the hands but something that was attached to the watch
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

coated wire?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

coated wire? fraid not
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'm getting confused because the "item" ended up being paint, and now it seems there's something that was attached to the "fairly crude" timing device (watch) which *isn't* paint itself but which *is* painted? Is that right?

If I've got it wrong, I think I need a recap -- this puzzle is getting a bit long and I may be getting the facts confused...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'm getting confused because the "item" ended up being paint, and now it seems there's something that was attached to the "fairly crude" timing device (watch) which *isn't* paint itself but which *is* painted? yes{ Is that right? yes

If I've got it wrong, I think I need a recap -- this puzzle is getting a bit long and I may be getting the facts confused...my thoughts exactly. When i started this i thought it would make a great puzzle but i'm somewhat hindered by my lack of knowledge on electric circuitry. I've certainly learned a lesson. If you like i'll spoil this or do you want to keep going. The answer is actually quite an amazing true story
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I'm keen to guess.

Is the painted item a common household item? Or a common office item? Or a common carpentry item?

Is it rigid? Or flexible?

Is it flat, cylindrical, spherical, cubic, or irregularly shaped?

How much does it weigh? 1 gram? 10 grams? 100 grams? 1 kilo?

Is the painted item's sole purpose to conduct electricity?

Relevant what color the item was painted?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I'm keen to guess.

Is the painted item a common household item? a common item but not really household Or a common office item? Or a common carpentry item? this

Is it rigid? yes Or flexible?

Is it flat, cylindrical this is closest but be careful, spherical, cubic, or irregularly shaped?

How much does it weigh? 1 gram? again this would be closest 10 grams? 100 grams? 1 kilo?

Is the painted item's sole purpose to conduct electricity? in this instance yes but in normal life it has a completely different application

Relevant what color the item was painted? No
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the painted item a nail? A screw? A bolt? A staple? A file? An awl? That's awl all I can think of at the moment...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the painted item a nail? YES!!!! A screw? A bolt? A staple? A file? An awl? That's awl all I can think of at the moment...LOL

Do you feel able to spoyle
Elness (Elness)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the terrorists constructed a (crude) bomb and used a battery-powered watch for its timer. The watch was wired as part of the electrical circuit supplying current to the detonator. However, the circuit would not be completed until the normal movement of the watch's hands brought one of them in contact with a nail (which was also wired as part of the electrical circuit). Unbeknownst to the terrorists, the nail had previously been painted, insulating the electrical current in the watch's hand from reaching the nail, and thereby preventing the detonation of the bomb.

Is that right?

If so, I think I understand the moral of the story: If you want to be explosively successful, don't paint your nails.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the terrorists constructed a (crude) bomb and used a battery-powered watch for its timer. The watch was wired as part of the electrical circuit supplying current to the detonator. However, the circuit would not be completed until the normal movement of the watch's hands brought one of them in contact with a nail (which was also wired as part of the electrical circuit). Unbeknownst to the terrorists, the nail had previously been painted, insulating the electrical current in the watch's hand from reaching the nail, and thereby preventing the detonation of the bomb.

Is that right? that's right so

****************Spoiler*****************

This as i've mentioned is a true story and took place in Northern Ireland in 1974. The IRA (irish republican army) planned to detonate a bomb on a flight from Belfast to London. On board was the then Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and he was their main target. In all there were 88 people on the flight. The bomb which was hidden in the luggage compartment was timed to explode midway over the Irish Sea. The timing device was fairly crude in that it was a watch with a nail driven into the face of it. The idea was that the hour hand would come in contact with the nail thus completing the circuit and sending the signal to the detonator causing the bomb to go off. The plan failed because the nail which had obviously been used for something else before was coated in paint. The paint acted as a insulator and prevented the circuit completing and the bomb detonating. So the lives of 88 people were saved by the width of a coat of paint which i guess is the narrowest margin possible.

Thanks for sticking with this Elness it was a bit of a struggle but you got there in the end.


If so, I think I understand the moral of the story: If you want to be explosively successful, don't paint your nails. nicely put

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