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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - December 2007 » [Zenith] "His artwork resembed 256 keys, all jumbled together..." « Previous Next »

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Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 453
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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is taught is usually a lie. But then this is probably fortunate...

My first puzzle in over a year. Enjoy!
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 546
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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

title relevant?

keys as in doorkeys? on a piano? on a keyboard? something else?

Does it matter who is teaching? is it a theory? presented as fact? moral?

Would someone be damaged if the truth was taught? somewhere? something? a reputation? reputations? would the truth cause a war?

Has the lie always been taught? is it deliberately taught?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 457
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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

title relevant? perpendicularly

keys as in doorkeys? on a piano? on a keyboard? something else? irr to be honest, but I nearly did write piano keys...

Does it matter who is teaching? no is it a theory? no presented as fact? yes moral? yes for svv of moral

Would someone be damaged if the truth was taught? noish somewhere? no something? no a reputation? yessish, only relevent in passing (see moral above) reputations? ¬ would the truth cause a war? no

Has the lie always been taught? yes for svv of always is it deliberately taught? yope
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 549
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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

title relevant? perpendicularly
Not sure I understand but no doubt that will become clear...

is Artwork relevant? music? literature?

Plagarism? inspiration?

Real-life? book? movie? Press? song? picture? FYOI?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 362
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Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that 256 = 2 to the 8th power? The number of possible values for a byte? Are computers relevant at all?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

256 key syllogisms or whatnot?(Logic thingy)
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 459
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

title relevant? perpendicularly
Not sure I understand but no doubt that will become clear... The title could be relevent if you decide to try and solve the puzzle that way. But it in itself is another puzzle. Nothing in the title itself (as it stands) is relevent.

is Artwork relevant? music? this literature?

Plagarism? yessish inspiration? yes

Real-life? {yope} book? movie? Press? song? picture? FYOI? yope
It's more a postulative or counter-factual puzzle. So look for real-life events, but the puzzle is deeper than that...

Alex319 (Alex319)

Is it relevant that 256 = 2 to the 8th power? noish The number of possible values for a byte? irr Are computers relevant at all? no
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 460
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

256 key syllogisms or whatnot?(Logic thingy) no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 554
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Classical music?
A particular composer?
Folk music?
Rock?
R&B?
Country?
Jazz?
A particular work?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 461
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Classical music? yes
A particular composer? yessish
Folk music?
Rock?
R&B?
Country?
Jazz?
A particular work? yes
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 565
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Handel?
Mozart?
Schubert?
Liszt?
Bach?
Beethoven?
Saint Saens?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 462
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Handel?
Mozart?
Schubert?
Liszt?
Bach?
Beethoven?
Saint Saens?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So 'tis a work of Mozart that concerns us....
Is it a well known one?
Does Salieri play any part in this?
The Magic Flute?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what is taught about a subject?
would it fall under the category of a standard acedemic subject?
musical category?
is "what is taught" history? folklore? is it taught in any text?
is it taught with verbal lesson? instruction?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 464
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So 'tis a work of Mozart that concerns us.... indeed
Is it a well known one? yope
Does Salieri play any part in this? no
The Magic Flute? no

what is taught about a subject? ?
would it fall under the category of a standard acedemic subject? not likely
musical category? yope
is "what is taught" history? folklore? more this is it taught in any text? probably not any academic texts, but I've seen it written on more than one occasion
is it taught with verbal lesson? yes instruction? no
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this involve:

The so-called 'Mozart effect'?

The story that Mozart was able to write down entire works on a single hearing [the famous example often given is Allegri's Miserere, but then, that repeats itself so often that it isn't all that miraculous]?

The story that Mozart conceived entire works in his head before writing them down?

Is it relevant that Mozart was a child prodigy? A freemason?

Anything to do with Fetis's theory of the omnitonic order?

Are we looking for another composer who may or may not have plagiarised Mozart's work? Or for an older composer used as a model by Mozart?

The relevant work of Mozart's: is it an opera? A chamber work? A symphony? A concerto? A work for solo piano?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah Woodworm... I think you may be on to something.... vague memories whispering of a code hidden in One of his works...not more than that I'm afraid...but itwas along Da Vinci Code lines....
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 465
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Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this involve:

The so-called 'Mozart effect'? no

The story that Mozart was able to write down entire works on a single hearing [the famous example often given is Allegri's Miserere, but then, that repeats itself so often that it isn't all that miraculous]? no

The story that Mozart conceived entire works in his head before writing them down? no

Is it relevant that Mozart was a child prodigy? yes A freemason? no

Anything to do with Fetis's theory of the omnitonic order? no

Are we looking for another composer who may or may not have plagiarised Mozart's work? Or for an older composer used as a model by Mozart? yessish

The relevant work of Mozart's: is it an opera? A chamber work? A symphony? A concerto? A work for solo piano? this
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Without googling...

is it a suggestion that Mozart didn't write one of his early pieces, but merely cleverly adjusted someone else's work so it seemed original?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Post Number: 466
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Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a suggestion that Mozart didn't write one of his early pieces, but merely cleverly adjusted someone else's work so it seemed original? yope - explore

at this point the title could indeed provide some clues, though googling may be required...
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twinkle Twinkle little star-ABC song? LoL
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twinkle Twinkle little star-ABC song? LoL yes. In fact this puzzle is inspired by Superman's puzzle (:
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So this is about the variations on the Twinkle Twinkle melody that Wolfie did? Or is that not accurate?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So this is about the variations on the Twinkle Twinkle melody that Wolfie did? yes Or is that not accurate?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so did someone teach that Mozart composed twinkle twinkle... instead of the more accurate variations?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so did someone teach that Mozart composed twinkle twinkle... yope instead of the more accurate variations?
Deathateaster (Deathateaster)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they say someone wrote something that they didn't, and is widely regarded as that?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they say someone wrote something that they didn't, and is widely regarded as that? yes, this is part of it
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That Mozart wrote the ABC song?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That Mozart wrote the ABC song? no
Incidently, considering a puzzle has been posted about cryptic crosswords, can any one figure out the cryptic clue that is this puzzle's title?
Deathateaster (Deathateaster)
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Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MY cryptic puzzle puzzle?

His artwork resembed 256 keys, all jumbled together...

I'm good at making them, but no good solving!

How many letters? I think the first bit is "heart".
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MY cryptic puzzle puzzle? Yes, I thought the puzzles wee really good, but I'm no good at solving them either...
His artwork resembed 256 keys, all jumbled together...

I'm good at making them, but no good solving! this one is a lttle more abstract...

How many letters? (1,#) which probably won't help much I think the first bit is "heart" no
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see - he wrote the variations as an adult, relevant that he was a child prodigy?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see - he wrote the variations as an adult, relevant that he was a child prodigy? yessish
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

for your cryptic title, is it relevant that resembed is spelt like that? any anagrams? if so is anagram everything before 256? all words before the comma?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "what is taught" this..? "[composition] was composed by [composer]"
or similar?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

for your cryptic title, is it relevant that resembed is spelt like that? ah, no, sorry! any anagrams? yessish if so is anagram everything before 256? no all words before the comma? noish

is "what is taught" this..? "[composition] was composed by [composer]"
or similar? yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "what is taught" any of these?

[Mozart Composition] was composed by [Another Composer]?

[Composition] was composed by Mozart?

[Mozart Composition] was composed by Mozart?

is any traditional arrangement relevant?
is a composer other than Mozart relevant?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "what is taught" any of these?

[Mozart Composition] was composed by [Another Composer]?

[Composition] was composed by Mozart? this

[Mozart Composition] was composed by Mozart? and to a marginal degree this...

is any traditional arrangement relevant? yessish
is a composer other than Mozart relevant? no
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm guessing the only relevant part of the title is 256 keys. Correct?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm guessing the only relevant part of the title is 256 keys. Correct? yessish. As a hint, it's rather an abstract cryptic clue...
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "what is taught"..the melody of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star was composed by Mozart?

is "what is taught"..the lyrics of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star were written by Mozart?
are the lyrics relevant? other lyrics to the melody other than "Twinkle" relevant?

"what is taught is usually"..
is the same thing always taught?
is what is taught sometimes not a lie?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "what is taught"..the melody of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star was composed by Mozart? yes

is "what is taught"..the lyrics of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star were written by Mozart? no, but OTRT
are the lyrics relevant? yes other lyrics to the melody other than "Twinkle" relevant? no

"what is taught is usually"..
is the same thing always taught? no, but irrelevent
is what is taught sometimes not a lie? negative (questions with the word 'not' in them are hard to answer unambiguously...)
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Completely jumping in here, but is what is taught that Mozart composed Twinkle Twinkle Little Star? Suggesting that he composed both music and lyrics, which is not the case?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

anything about the lyrics of the song? anything about the fact that the song says that stars are like diamonds in the sky?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Completely jumping in here, but is what is taught that Mozart composed Twinkle Twinkle Little Star? yessish Suggesting that he composed both music and lyrics, which is not the case? no

anything about the lyrics of the song? yes anything about the fact that the song says that stars are like diamonds in the sky? no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The things you learn doing these puzzles! Just checked and found that there are actually 5 verses to twinkle twinkle! Only knew the one before this... is the puzzle to do with the best known first verse, or one of the more obscure 4?
Is it to do with the repetition of the twinkle twinkle lines?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The things you learn doing these puzzles! Just checked and found that there are actually 5 verses to twinkle twinkle! Only knew the one before this... is the puzzle to do with the best known first verse, or one of the more obscure 4? Mainly the first, but the other four are indeed relevent also...
Is it to do with the repetition of the twinkle twinkle lines? No...
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok... so step by step...

twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

How I wonder..?
Up above the world..?

We've ruled out diamond in the sky and the repetition...
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok... so step by step...

twinkle Twinkle Little Star? no

How I wonder..? no
Up above the world..? no

We've ruled out diamond in the sky and the repetition... no
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for being ambiguous, '...diamond in the sky...' is not relevent
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Original French lyrics relevant? That it was composed when Wolfie was four or five (but he wrote the variations as an adult)?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

maybe the fact that they call stars "little"?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is what is taught that the first verse was composed by someone other than the composer of the other verses?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, sorry to google (I love music, but I don't know ins and outs of music), but I also just found out (wikipedia) that 256 designates the frequency of Middle C in hertz--is this relevant? and from more googling, I think Twinkle Twinkle starts out in Middle C? crazy guesses or on the right track?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 7:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Original French lyrics relevant? no... That it was composed when Wolfie was four or five (but he wrote the variations as an adult)? Yes

maybe the fact that they call stars "little"? no

Is what is taught that the first verse was composed by someone other than the composer of the other verses? no

ok, sorry to google (I love music, but I don't know ins and outs of music), but I also just found out (wikipedia) that 256 designates the frequency of Middle C in hertz--is this relevant? HA! No it isn't. I completely forgot that! and from more googling, I think Twinkle Twinkle starts out in Middle C? crazy guesses or on the right track? It does in fact, but no this isn't relevent. Though I wish it was... 'cause now my title looks even better!
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any misconception that Mozart wrote the variations as a child relevant?

so when you say "usually a lie" it means..
when it is taught that Mozart was the original composer of the melody of "Twinkle.." it is a lie?
when it is taught that Mozart wrote variations on the melody of "Twinkle.."it is not a lie?

if you look up Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in wikipedia, does it contain a lie?

When you say "lie" does it meant that the one who is teaching knows the truth yet tells it another way?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any misconception that Mozart wrote the variations as a child relevant? yessish

so when you say "usually a lie" it means..
when it is taught that Mozart was the original composer of the melody of "Twinkle.." it is a lie? yes
when it is taught that Mozart wrote variations on the melody of "Twinkle.."it is not a lie? no, it would not be a lie to say that he composed the variations

if you look up Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in wikipedia, does it contain a lie? not as far as I am aware.

When you say "lie" does it meant that the one who is teaching knows the truth yet tells it another way? no. Lie just refers to an untruth. Not necessarily purposefully given
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the lyrics come into existence later than the music? later than Mozart's variations? some time in between?

Scintillate, scintillate globule vivific,
Fain would I fathom thy nature specific,
Loftily posed in ether capacious,
Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous.
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did someone think/say, that Mozart had written the lyrics to twinkle twinkle as well as the tune/variations?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the lyrics come into existence later than the music? yes later than Mozart's variations? yes some time in between? no

Scintillate, scintillate globule vivific,
Fain would I fathom thy nature specific,
Loftily posed in ether capacious,
Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous. vey nice :^)

did someone think/say, that Mozart had written the lyrics to twinkle twinkle as well as the tune/variations? no
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what we're looking for here any more, so just to recap really

Mozart didn't write the original? just the variations? and someone else later added the lyrics? were there original lyrics? the french ones mentioned above?

do we need more info on the original tune? original lyrics? one/more of mozarts variation(s)? other lyrics?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what we're looking for here any more, so just to recap really ok

Mozart didn't write the original? correct just the variations? yes and someone else later added the lyrics? yes were there original lyrics? irrelevent the french ones mentioned above? irrelevent

do we need more info on the original tune? no original lyrics? no one/more of mozarts variation(s)? not really other lyrics? noish

All the really relevent information has already been gathered. The only thing left to do is try and figure out how it applies to the puzzle statement. In particular, how is it fortunate that it is a 'lie' to say that Mozart composed 'Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star'?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it fortunate for Mozart? for the song? do more people hear about Mozart because of it? does the song get more interest etc because its connected with mozart?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that he didn't name the piece, but it was within a much longer piece?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

~damia~:
is it fortunate for Mozart? irr for the song? yes do more people hear about Mozart because of it? irr does the song get more interest etc because its connected with mozart? irr

Crazypalpig:

Relevant that he didn't name the piece, but it was within a much longer piece? yessish - explore
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant that people recognize the "twinkle twinkle" song when listening to the classical piece, even if they don't know much about classical music? maybe makes people feel more "classical music literate"?

Regarding your title, I know Mozart's pieces are cataloged as K #, is this relevant? (though I daouble checked before posting, and I think k 256 is Clarice Cara; Variations on a Theme is K 265...)
Khaavren (Khaavren)
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Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 3:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is 256 symbolic or directly representative of the relationship between Mozart and the original melody's composer? between Mozart and the composer of the lyrics?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant that people recognize the "twinkle twinkle" song when listening to the classical piece, even if they don't know much about classical music? maybe makes people feel more "classical music literate"? no

Regarding your title, I know Mozart's pieces are cataloged as K #, is this relevant? (though I daouble checked before posting, and I think k 256 is Clarice Cara; Variations on a Theme is K 265...) Yes indeed, The title was refering to K. 265 which is "Ah! Vous Dirae Ja Marman" otherwise known as Twinkle Twinlke Little Star, Theme and Variatons.

Is 256 symbolic or directly representative of the relationship between Mozart and the original melody's composer? between Mozart and the composer of the lyrics?see above
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finally!

Was it taught that Mozart wrote the song by itself, without its variations? Are any of the lyrics relevant?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finally!

Was it taught that Mozart wrote the song by itself, without its variations? not quite, though keep it in mind... Are any of the lyrics relevant? yes
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he write music that was very similar and just put different lyrics to it? Did somebody borrow his piece(s) and put lyrics to them? Is this about an elaborate plagerism scheme?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he write music that was very similar and just put different lyrics to it? no Did somebody borrow his piece(s) and put lyrics to them? no Is this about an elaborate plagerism scheme? no

I think a recap is in order. All the elements of this puzzle have actually been found out. It just really needs to be put together.
>> RECAP <<
The piece of music is Ah! Vous Dirae ja Marman which was originally written when Mozart was five. This piece is known now as Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. However, we also know that at the age of 25 Mozart wrote K.265 Ah! Vous Dirae ja Marman: Theme and Variations for piano, and that as such it has been incorrectly taught that Mozart wrote twinkle twinkle at the age of five, as a 'morality' story, or how much of a genius Mozart was.
The Lyrics are also relevent.
The fact that Twinkle Twinkle was written with more than one verse is also relevent.

The Question; however, remains:
'Why is it that it could be seen as fortunate that Mozart did not write Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?


As a side note, I realised the other day that my reply to Booklover's post on october 24th is in fact wrong. 256Hz isn't middle C: Assuming we are in A440 - middle C is 261.626 Hz. And in Mozart's time, he would've used baroque pitch, i.e A 415. Assuming equal temprement (ET-12) then middle C would in fact be 246.761 Hz.
Also, whilst Twinkle Twinkle starts on middle C (C4), Theme and Variations does not. It starts on C5 in the right hand and C3 in the left!
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the answer something to do with copyright?

Is it fortunate because If Mozart had written Twinkle Twinkle Little Star then all performances and usage thereof would require permission?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok--trying for relevant lyrics stanza by stanza:


Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.
Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Any of this stanza relevant?

When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.
Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Any of this stanza relevant?

Then the trav'ler in the dark
Thanks you for your tiny spark;
How could he see where to go,
If you did not twinkle so?
Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Any of this stanza relevant?

In the dark blue sky you keep, and
Through my curtains often peep,
For you never shut your eyes,
Till the morning sun does rise.
Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Any of this stanza relevant?

As your bright and tiny spark
Lights the trav'ler in the dark,
Though I know not what you are,
Twinkle on, please, little star.
Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Any of this stanza relevant?
Deathateaster (Deathateaster)
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Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it something to do with that the stars "go away" when the sun rises is false, and that they stay (you can't see them over the sunlight?) ?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the answer something to do with copyright? no

Is it fortunate because If Mozart had written Twinkle Twinkle Little Star then all performances and usage thereof would require permission? no

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok--trying for relevant lyrics stanza by stanza:

no to all, slight FA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it something to do with that the stars "go away" when the sun rises is false, and that they stay (you can't see them over the sunlight?) ? no
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I got it: Is it taught that the number of stanzas are the number of variations?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I got it: Is it taught that the number of stanzas are the number of variations? no but very much on the right track
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the number of measures in the song that's wrong? Is it the measure order? Music order? Verse order?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the number of measures in the song that's wrong? Is it the measure order? Music order? Verse order?
no to all - we've already figured out what was wrong, check the recap above
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops... um, reason it's fortunate he didn't write Twinkle Twinkle...

Because it would have been a creepy heralding of his death?
Because he might have wound up writing other children's songs for the rest of his short life instead of some of his better work?
Because then his work would have been encouraged to be even more repetative than it already is?
Because it would have colored people's opinions of him?
Because it would have caused him to act differently than he otherwise would have?
Something completely different?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops... um, reason it's fortunate he didn't write Twinkle Twinkle...

Because it would have been a creepy heralding of his death? nice thought, but no
Because he might have wound up writing other children's songs for the rest of his short life instead of some of his better work?
Because then his work would have been encouraged to be even more repetative than it already is?
Because it would have colored people's opinions of him?
Because it would have caused him to act differently than he otherwise would have?
Something completely different? this
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bearing in mind that mozart was Austrian.. do we need to put the lyrics into German for them to be relevant?
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is taught is a lie, but this is probably fortunate...

Fortunate because... otherwise you would have lost a game of trivial persuit? Does the fact that Trivial Persuit attributes the song to Mozart have anything to do with this puzzle?
Does the fact that the tune inspired other works by other composers have anything to with this puzzle?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bearing in mind that mozart was Austrian.. do we need to put the lyrics into German for them to be relevant? no, forunately :^)

Fortunate because... otherwise you would have lost a game of trivial persuit? no Does the fact that Trivial Persuit attributes the song to Mozart have anything to do with this puzzle? no. But this come's into 'being taught'
Does the fact that the tune inspired other works by other composers have anything to with this puzzle? no
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is what is taught fortunate because...
...we'd otherwise have to give credit to the French? And that's always bad, right?

Does the reason it's fortunate have something to do with...
the person who wrote it?
the person who didn't write it (Mozart)?
The nationality of the song?
The music itself?
Your relationship with this fact?
The general knowledge and education of the world?
Something related to locations? professions? Music?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm I think we're straying from the solution, right? How many variations? Is the fact that not the variations are taught relevant? Do they think they can sing the words to the variations?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is what is taught fortunate because...
...we'd otherwise have to give credit to the French? no And that's always bad, right?

Does the reason it's fortunate have something to do with...
the person who wrote it? no
the person who didn't write it (Mozart)? no
The nationality of the song? no
The music itself? yes
Your relationship with this fact? ??
The general knowledge and education of the world? somewhat...
Something related to locations? professions? yessish Music? yes

Crazypalpig:

Hmmm I think we're straying from the solution, right? it's like a complicated dance... How many variations? irr (unfortunately) Is the fact that not the variations are taught relevant? yes Do they think they can sing the words to the variations? YES! The final piece:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok, this puzzle was a little silly, but when thinking of questions for Superman's ABC song puzzle, i got thinking about the tune. Now I remember reading in an encyclopedia for children (backed up by Trivial Pursuit) that Mozart wrote Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. So I looked up Twinkle Twinkle on Wikipedia and found some interesting facts: Firstly, Mozart's variations were on an older, traditional French song: Ah, Vous Dirae Ja Marmam (which is certainly not a children's song). Secondly, he certainly didn't write it when he was five. Thirdly, it is therefore more likely that the english version of Twinkle Twinkle was based on the original tune. And forthly, the English version has more than one verse.

I thought, "Wouldn't've been interesting if it had been the other way round? What would've happened if Mozart's variations were the root of Twinkle Twinkle?"

If you were to sing Twinkle Twinkle to the piano arrangement of K.265:
There'd be twelve verses, and the soprano line would go over three octaves, the basses would need to reach the G below bottom G, and all parts would need to trill in time.

Even if you arranged it for a choir, it would be very impressive. But again, it wouldn't be a children's song.

On the other hand, even if it were the case, verse one would still be the tune. I suppose therefore, everyone would just learn verse one, and we'd be back to where we started from...
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

spoiler ...
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wahoo! I finished solving one!

It was a great puzzle, now I will try to direct my mind to your other once you answer Qs

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