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Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I knew of a simple magic trick when I was a child. I forget the precise details of the how you performed it, but the secret lay in a fact that applied almost universally 'back then' but my current observations tell me that it wouldn't work any more. What has changed?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it involve a coin?
A pack of cards?
Matchbox?

Some other common item that has since been 'improved'?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it involve a coin? yope
A pack of cards? no
Matchbox? no

Some other common item that has since been 'improved'? no
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was going to ask about money...different currency now? Specific piece of cash required?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne ... surely things haven't changed so much in such a short space of time?

Technology relevant?
Mobile phones?
computers?
was it a "think of a number, any number" trick
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was going to ask about money...different currency now? no Specific piece of cash required? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne ... surely things haven't changed so much in such a short space of time? oh you flatterer! :-)

Technology relevant?
Mobile phones?
computers?
was it a "think of a number, any number" trick no to all
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coins?

Specific combination now required?

We're in the UK... could someone in ROI have done it? USA? any country?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coins? yes

Specific combination now required? not a combination as such, but there is a detail to be found, of course

We're in the UK... could someone in ROI have done it? USA? any country? I can only speak for the UK but it will be interesting to see if it *doesn't* apply elsewhere
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it to do with relative sizes of coins?

Something else besides coins needed?

a glass?
string?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it to do with relative sizes of coins? no

Something else besides coins needed? yes

a glass?
string? no to these
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

c'mon Lynn, you finally turning 29 this year?

Does the trick involve earings?
Other jewelry?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

c'mon Lynn, you finally turning 29 this year? quite so, with a 25 and 22 year old 'child' in tow :-)

Does the trick involve earings?
Other jewelry? no

Bit of a false assumption lurking btw
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess at the moment your brain ISN'T fried. I'll bite.

Does this have to do with sleight-of-hand? Is the trick so old everyone knows the trick already? Or is it now physically impossible?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

false assumption... you needed 2 coins but the audience only saw one?
assistant needed?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

c'mon Lynn, you finally turning 29 this year? quite so, with a 25 and 22 year old 'child' in tow :-) I sense another puzzle here. Something about a pretty mother of two....

Are the coins you normally use no longer in circulation?

The coins in use not the right side any more?
Something change on the face?
The back?
The edge?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess at the moment your brain ISN'T fried. I'll bite. you think?

Does this have to do with sleight-of-hand? no Is the trick so old everyone knows the trick already? I doubt it - it wouldn't for instance be one you'd see on TV as it's so low key Or is it now physically impossible? no - just more unlikely

false assumption... you needed 2 coins but the audience only saw one? you do need 2 coins, but the audience see both
assistant needed? yope - explore
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

c'mon Lynn, you finally turning 29 this year? quite so, with a 25 and 22 year old 'child' in tow :-) I sense another puzzle here. Something about a pretty mother of two.... mother of two pretties :-)

Are the coins you normally use no longer in circulation? irrelevant

The coins in use not the right side any more?
Something change on the face?
The back?
The edge? none of these
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

2 coins... denominations relevant? Will 2 flat discs of metal work? relevant what the coins are made of? Is this some sort of mind-reading trick? Is it a solo trick?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the assistant in on the trick?
Does it rely on them having some skill that is no longer taught?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

2 coins... denominations relevant? no Will 2 flat discs of metal work? no relevant what the coins are made of? no Is this some sort of mind-reading trick? not that I remember, but I guess you could weave this 'secret' into something like that Is it a solo trick? only one magician is needed, but others are necessary to the trick
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the assistant in on the trick? need to explore 'assistant' - only one magician as such is needed
Does it rely on them having some skill that is no longer taught? no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so would you describe the "assistant" as a stooge?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the difference anything to do with the coins? Size? shape? what they're made out of?
Is it a "cultural" difference? something like 99p pricing? the fact that a lot of purchases are paid for by card?
Would this trick still work if performed in front of a group of 29 year-olds (or however old you actually are :-))?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so would you describe the "assistant" as a stooge? not at all
s the difference anything to do with the coins? Size? shape? what they're made out of? no to all
Is it a "cultural" difference? something like 99p pricing? the fact that a lot of purchases are paid for by card? no to all
Would this trick still work if performed in front of a group of 29 year-olds (or however old you actually are :-) no, not any longer
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a "cultural" difference? oops, I should have said yessish to this one
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the trick actually be performed now? but wouldn't fool anyone?

or is there a physical reason why the trick is now impossible?

If I loaded some people from your childhood into a time machine and brought them to today, would the trick work on them? (I've asked some strange questions but that one is ....)
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it less likely because: people would be less likely to be fooled? People would be less likely to have the relevant equipment? People would be less likely to even understand the point of the trick?
Do any of the coins disappear? Can the trick be performed with borrowed coins?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the trick actually be performed now? not reliably but wouldn't fool anyone? no fooling is involved

or is there a physical reason why the trick is now impossible? yes

If I loaded some people from your childhood into a time machine and brought them to today, would the trick work on them? yes(I've asked some strange questions but that one is ....) I like it

Is it less likely because: people would be less likely to be fooled? no People would be less likely to have the relevant equipment? explore - could easily confuse though People would be less likely to even understand the point of the trick? no
Do any of the coins disappear? no Can the trick be performed with borrowed coins? YES
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So people have changed?

And this change is physical?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Apologies in advance for the guess-dump here

Anything to do with:
Pay phones?
Magnets?
Clothing or styles of dress?
Food or drink?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So people have changed? in one small sense, yes

And this change is physical? yes

Anything to do with:
Pay phones?
Magnets?
Clothing or styles of dress? this is vaguely in the right area to explore
Food or drink? no to rest
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shoes?

Does the trick require things other than coins?
Anything that would be carried in pockets?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with what people carry coins in?
pockets as opposed to purses? wallets?
Anything to do with how many coins people generally carry?
spectacles?
can the trick only be performed with borrowed coins?
Is the "assistant" required to be an accomplice of the magician in any way? Or just to lend them the coins?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shoes? no

Does the trick require things other than coins? peripherally but vitally
Anything that would be carried in pockets? see below

Anything to do with what people carry coins in? YES
pockets as opposed to purses? YES wallets? YES
Anything to do with how many coins people generally carry? no
spectacles? no
can the trick only be performed with borrowed coins? yes
Is the "assistant" required to be an accomplice of the magician in any way? no Or just to lend them the coins? YES but FA

Closing in, but vital information still to be found
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Weird questions abound! So if I was to do this trick in a nudist colony today would it work? would it have worked years ago?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a coin purse needed?

Does one (or both) of the coins "reappear" in a pocket?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if you did this with a 29 year old who still carried her coins the way she did in her youth, would it work?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Weird questions abound! So if I was to do this trick in a nudist colony today would it work? lol no! would it have worked years ago? no

Is a coin purse needed? yes...

Does one (or both) of the coins "reappear" in a pocket? no

So if you did this with a 29 year old who still carried her coins the way she did in her youth, would it work? yope
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 7:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the coins have to be indistinguishable from each other?
Do(es) one or both of them seem to move miraculously from one place to another?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, another oldie returning! Good to see you

Do the coins have to be indistinguishable from each other? yope
Do(es) one or both of them seem to move miraculously from one place to another? no
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have we established how many coins? 2? 3? 4? ...
If more than 2 then how many are indistinguishable? 2? 3? 4? ....

So a wallet or purse is necessary... Is the assistant part of the audience?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have we established how many coins? no 2? this one 3? 4? ...
If more than 2 then how many are indistinguishable? 2? 3? 4? ....

So a wallet or purse is necessary...yes... Is the assistant part of the audience? yes and yope
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yes and yope???? crikey! is the assistant h?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "assistant" the entire audience?
Is anything about the design of the wallet/purse relevant?
Zips as opposed to poppers?
Would the "assistant" lend the magician both coins? only one of them?
Would the assistant be aware of the existence of both coins for the full duration of the trick?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So equipment-wise:
we have two coins, must be money, but denominataion irrelevent.
we have a purse or wallet, as opposed to pockets.
We have an assistant.
This assistant 'lends' the magician two coins.

I'm going to assume, given the clues, that the assistant is not in on the trick, and is indeed the person being 'tricked'. i.e for this trick to work, their needs to be at least one other person present to interact with the magician; otherwise, is it magical if there is no-one around to see it? Consequently, they are a member of the audience per se, but the rest of the audience would see them as an integral part of the trick.

If so:
The assisntant, we'll call Antony, hands the magician, Quinne some coins. Does Antony hand her one or two coins? does he hand her a wallet/coin-purse/coin-bag? Does Anntony or Quinne mark either of the coins in any way? Is the wallet/coin-purse/coin-bag rigid or amorphous? relevent?
Does the trick make any of these disappear? materialise? Both at different parts of the trick? 'Double the money'? Translocate? metamorphose? animate or move on its own?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i remember a trick from my youth where having left the room when two coins were selected you then returned to announce whether the coins belonged to a man or a woman . The logic being that if the coin was warm it had been in a man's pocket whereas if it was cold it had been in a women's purse. Is this relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i remember a trick from my youth where having left the room when two coins were selected you then returned to announce whether the coins belonged to a man or a woman . The logic being that if the coin was warm it had been in a man's pocket whereas if it was cold it had been in a women's purse. Is this relevant? this was exactly the trick

Sorry, no point in going over the other questions

************ SPOILER ***********

See above - nowadays more men are using coin purses/wallets than just having loose change in their trouser pocket. This reduces the level of how warm they would get compared to if they carried them loose in their trouser pocket. Thus the contrast between a woman's coin and a man's is not so reliable as you can't very well ask for a coin from a pocket and one from a handbag as that would give the game away.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ps - the "yes and yopes" were because 'yes' they were from the audience and human but 'yope' because the assistant was continually been referred to in the singular when in fact it was two volunteers. I feared that a single yope would be too confusing!
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow i didn't expect that to be the one. That really takes me back. Nice puzzle
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oooh....Very nice. I've never seen that trick but I can see how that would foul things up.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This made me think of two other things...

Do you remember the trick/skill of raising your elbow level with you nose and with you hand resting back over your shoulder, leaving your forearm level with your face and placing a number of coins on the apex of your elbow?
Then in one sharp movement whipping your arm straight down to your side simultaneously collecting all the coins in your now clenched hand?

I used to be able to do a dozen or more old pennies :-)

On the matter of men having wallets and purses, I do indeed have one that holds notes, cards and coins. However, just like you ladies, I need a handbag to carry it in, as it's too bulky to keep comfortably in my pockets. Plus the fact that I need somewhere to carry my cell phone, a pen, diary etc etc. So what do I do? I carry a brief case everywhere and when I need to pay for something, I open up my handbag briefcase and get my purse manly wallet out :-)
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3401
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you remember the trick/skill ....

I used to be able to do a dozen or more old pennies :-)

Can't say I do remember it, but it sounds impressive!

Regarding men and wallets - I don't remember my Dad ever having a wallet, and his pockets jingled with coins. My observation in the local shop is that more and more men in the building/labouring trades use wallets which they shove in their pockets - sometimes an inner pocket of their flourescent jackets. The oldest of men still have jingling pockets. We don't get many briefcase types in the shop as they tend to get home after the shop has closed!

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