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Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When they replaced three words with two, it performed much better.

I have a feeling this one might be here for a while...settle in folks!
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

really wild guess: drand48()
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were any of the original three words contained in the two words?
were the words in English? relevant?
were the words written down anywhere? On it? In a set of instructions for it?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Zenith:

really wild guess: drand48()common answer...No


Bentarm:

were any of the original three words contained in the two words? no
were the words in English? relevant?yes, and yes
were the words written down anywhere?yes On it?No In a set of instructions for it?No
Obaone (Obaone)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They = H? A? M? F?
How many of them are there? 2? Fewer than 10? fewer than 20? fewer than 50? Fewer than 100? Greater than 100 ?
It = Computer? Other electronic device? or machine?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It - smaller than a breadbox?
Bigger than a breadbox?
*snickers* A breadbox?

Are the words - on a sign?
Visible near it?
Directly related to it?

Is it:
Something used by the public?
Organic in nature?
Living?
Common?

The setting:
A workplace?
A public area?
A school?

Animals involved?

Is the time period relevant? Modern?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the two words written in the same place as the three words had been?
same font? same size?
Did the two words have essentially the same meaning as the three words? entirely opposite meaning?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Obaone:

They = H? A? M? F? Human and adult. They could have been he, but I think it is fair to say that others had a hand in it as well
How many of them are there? 2? Fewer than 10?This sounds right...exact number irr fewer than 20? fewer than 50? Fewer than 100? Greater than 100 ?
It = Computer? Other electronic device? or machine?No to both

Vesica:

It - smaller than a breadbox? FA
Bigger than a breadbox? FA
*snickers* A breadbox? No

Are the words - on a sign? Yessish
Visible near it? Yesish
Directly related to it? yes

Is it:
Something used by the public? rephrase
Organic in nature? No
Living? No
Common? No

The setting:
A workplace? This one
A public area? This one
A school? No

Animals involved? no

Is the time period relevant?ish Modern?just after WWI

Bentarm:

were the two words written in the same place as the three words had been? yes
same font? same size? Possible these might have varied
Did the two words have essentially the same meaning as the three words?NO! entirely opposite meaning?No
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the words written in order to affect people's behaviour? Get them to do something? Not to do something?
were the three words an instruction? a request? a warning? information?

(I'm thinking something like originaly they had a sign saying "please keep off the grass", and changed it to "poisoned grass, be careful")
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the words written in order to affect people's behaviour?no Get them to do something?No Not to do something?No
were the three words an instruction?No a request?No a warning?no information?Yope

(I'm thinking something like originaly they had a sign saying "please keep off the grass", and changed it to "poisoned grass, be careful")Sorry wrong track completely
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My computer just ate my questions. Bad computer! Let's see if I can remember what I just asked...

Is the FA that "it" is a tangible object?
Is it an idea?
A process?
An action?

Are the words directly related to it?

This is taking place in a public area of a workplace?
Like a restroom?
Breakroom?
Entry hall?
Parking lot or garage?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the words an explanation?
Are the words a person's name?
Are the words on a label?
On the label on the item that performs better?
Obaone (Obaone)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Words part of a script?
Performance as in a dance? Play? Movie?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My computer just ate my questions. Bad computer! Let's see if I can remember what I just asked...I am sure you'll do brilliantly!

Is the FA that "it" is a tangible object? Yes
Is it an idea? Not exactly, no
A process? No
An action? No

Are the words directly related to it? yes

This is taking place in a public area of a workplace? There is not one place involved... plart of it is a workplace, that is also a public space
Like a restroom? Possible, but more unliely given the time setting
Breakroom? possible
Entry hall? Possible
Parking lot or garage?Unlikely, but possible

Wildcard:

Are the words an explanation?No, but explore
Are the words a person's name? Not a person's name
Are the words on a label?Very close
On the label on the item that performs better?item isn't tangible so no

Obaone
Words part of a script?Yope
Performance as in a dance? No Play?Yes Movie?No
Obaone (Obaone)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

words = the title of something?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Obaone:

words = the title of something?yes!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G & S?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

G & S?no actually...OTT we're doing a new version of Pinafore (to us anyway..not to the Aussies...it's the Essgee version) this year so they're quite high up in my brain, but not this time!
Alanlin (Alanlin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you said yesish for the words being on signs, so I'm assuming something like a marquee?
So "it," being the play, performed better after its title was changed?
Was its title originally in another language?
Was something lost in translation that was fixed by the title change?
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The first thing I thought upon reading the question was that they were words in a poem... but now it's a title so -

Are there any poetical devices relevant?
Famous play relevant?

And just for clarification...
Are the words the title of 'It'?
Is 'It' the play they were performing?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alanlin:

you said yesish for the words being on signs, so I'm assuming something like a marquee?yes..marquee, posters handbills... and so on
So "it," being the play, performed better after its title was changed? Correct!
Was its title originally in another language?No
Was something lost in translation that was fixed by the title change?No

Suido:

The first thing I thought upon reading the question was that they were words in a poem... but now it's a title so - Correct

Are there any poetical devices relevant?Not to my knowledge
Famous play relevant? Not sure how famous you would describe it as... not one of the writer's most famous works. Revived 4 times on Broadway...

And just for clarification...
Are the words the title of 'It'?Yes
Is 'It' the play they were performing?Yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"it performed much better" - more people went to see it? Some other meaning?
So a play was released, under a three word title, and performed: badly? averagely? well? very well?
it was then re-released under a two word title and performed: averagely? well? very well?
Is it likely we've heard of the play under it's two word title? It's three word title?
Is either of the titles a well-known phrase or saying?
Do either of the titles refer to any characters in the play? It's location?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"it performed much better" - more people went to see it?Yes Some other meaning?no
So a play was released, under a three word title, and performed: badly? Very! averagely? well? very well?
it was then re-released under a two word title and performed: averagely? well? very well? lets just say a lot better!
Is it likely we've heard of the play under it's two word title?Possibly...I have to confess I didn't know of it but... It's three word title?no
Is either of the titles a well-known phrase or saying?The three word one is quite common
Do either of the titles refer to any characters in the play? It's location?The two word one refers to location
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One of the local G&S groups I have done gigs with in the past (Stanford Savoyards) recently did a Bollywood version of one of 'em - the Sorcerer? Didn't do the show so can't remember - saw a clip and it looked pretty cool.

Er, any bodily functions/fluids involved in the title?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One of the local G&S groups I have done gigs with in the past (Stanford Savoyards) recently did a Bollywood version of one of 'em - the Sorcerer? Didn't do the show so can't remember - saw a clip and it looked pretty cool. interesting... I know there is a Hollywood Pinafore.... but I hadn't heard of a bollywood version!}

Er, any bodily functions/fluids involved in the title? unfortunately No
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I guess Urinetown wasn't originally Pay to Pee or Take a Piss...

Location - as in specific place name? General setting?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

So I guess Urinetown wasn't originally Pay to Pee or Take a Piss... apart from the fact that urinetown is one word, not 2 ... oh wait you're taking the ... oh **** that!

Location - as in specific place name? General setting?speciic place, but not likely to help you... I don't need the second title... but the first (three words) is essential to the solution.
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the three word phrase include -
a colour?
a place?
a pronoun?
an article?
a proper noun?
an animal?
an emotion (including emotive verbs)?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suido:

Does the three word phrase include -
a colour?
a place?
a pronoun?
an article?
a proper noun?
an animal?
an emotion (including emotive verbs)? believe it or not...none of them!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How 'bout a reg'lar-ol'-noun, then? Adjective? Definite article? Indefinite article? Adverb?

Did the original title not reflect the nature of the play accurately? Is the genre of the play relevant? If so, drama? Comedy? Musical? Farce? Variety? Mystery? Suspense? Fantasy?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any sort of double entendre relevant to this puzzle?
Would it be possible to misread the original title as not meaning what the people who wrote it thought it meant?
Obaone (Obaone)
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Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First title, three different words?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 2:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

How 'bout a reg'lar-ol'-noun, then?a noun of sorts yes Adjective?an adjective yes Definite article? Indefinite article? Adverb?no to the rest

Did the original title not reflect the nature of the play accurately?interesting question... it reflected the intent of the playwright, and was sufficently on for no question to be immediately raised... though even that bafflesw me! Is the genre of the play relevant? If so, drama?Yes Comedy? Musical? Farce? Variety? Mystery? Suspense? Fantasy?No to rest

Bentarm:
Is there any sort of double entendre relevant to this puzzle? No double entendre needed!
Would it be possible to misread the original title as not meaning what the people who wrote it thought it meant? I will say yes...although it seems pretty clear that the playwright himself intended exactly what happened to happen... however for the rest of the people involved the answer is yse

Obaone:

First title, three different words?yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify, I meant "double entendre" in the sense of "a phrase which can be interpreted in two different ways", rather than the more common usage in which it would imply some sort of risqué content - is double entendre in this sense involved in the puzzle?
So did the playwright intend for the play to be a flop?
Is this a true story?
Is anything like "the producers" relevant?
Did the original title imply that the play was uninteresting? offensive? a different genre to what it actually was?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm:

Just to clarify, I meant "double entendre" in the sense of "a phrase which can be interpreted in two different ways", rather than the more common usage in which it would imply some sort of risqué content - is double entendre in this sense involved in the puzzle? my answer stands... I was thinking the same way
So did the playwright intend for the play to be a flop? well... he always professed innocence, but it seems to be clear that what happened was exactly what he had aimed to do... so no in the long run he didn't want it to be a flop, but he did want to see the proverbial egg on faces
Is this a true story?actually yes! and believe it or not a similar situation arose relatively recently... but was anticipated and defused before it happened.
Is anything like "the producers" relevant?Assuming you meant the Musical , No
Did the original title imply that the play was uninteresting? offensive? a different genre to what it actually was?no to all, but the first one is closest to being right...nearly a yope
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something similar happened with "The Vagina Monologues" when they changed their name due to protests to "Hoohah Monologues". Girl Power!

I'm also reminded of the Mel Brooks comedy "The Producers" where the playwrights try to rake in some cash by orchestrating a deliberate flop.


Just confirming, it was a musical yeah?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg:

Something similar happened with "The Vagina Monologues" when they changed their name due to protests to "Hoohah Monologues". Girl Power! No. Not similar!

I'm also reminded of the Mel Brooks comedy "The Producers" where the playwrights try to rake in some cash by orchestrating a deliberate flop. I know the musical... NO

Just confirming, it was a musical yeah?No
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it wasn't changing from "Springtime for Hitler" to "The Producers"...besides, we've established no proper nouns (only those whose behaviour is a bit dodgy, apparently)...a noun (of sorts), an adjective, and a...verb? Like, I dunno, "Pink Goats Frolicking" or some such (i. e. adj-n-v)?
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so did the playwright intend the play to flop initially and then someone to notice that this was due to the title and change the title?
Was the title something like "no show this weekend", implying that there was in fact no play?
Did the title imply that the play was something other than a play?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

So it wasn't changing from "Springtime for Hitler" to "The Producers"...besides, we've established no proper nouns (only those whose behaviour is a bit dodgy, apparently)...a noun (of sorts), an adjective, and a...verb? Like, I dunno, "Pink Goats Frolicking" or some such (i. e. adj-n-v)?Not this combination

Bentarm:

so did the playwright intend the play to flop initially and then someone to notice that this was due to the title and change the title? it would seem so.Yes
Was the title something like "no show this weekend", implying that there was in fact no play? Yes! I'll keep it going to see if you can work out what it might be. It's not beyond the ability of this group!
Did the title imply that the play was something other than a play?see previous answer
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Closed for Refurbishment?
So there are three words, a noun a verb and an adjective? Is the noun (of sorts) actually a pronoun?
Was the noun "theatre"? "play"?
Did the playwright intend for anyone reading the title to think the theatre was closed at the time the play was on? That the play which should have been on was cancelled?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title of this puzzle relevant?
Does "Open for questions" mirror the structure of the original three word title?
Does it include the word closed?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Closed for Refurbishment? That's two thirds correct!
So there are three words, a noun a verb and an adjective? Is the noun (of sorts) actually a pronoun? {follow what you have above the noun(?) is a gerund form of a verb.
Was the noun "theatre"? "play"? Nope
Did the playwright intend for anyone reading the title to think the theatre was closed at the time the play was on?yes That the play which should have been on was cancelled?No

Is the title of this puzzle relevant? yessish...
Does "Open for questions" mirror the structure of the original three word title?to this extent yes
Does it include the word closed?yes...Closed for...Oh sod it that is close enough....


*********************SPOILER*******************

During World War I for his views on conflict etc, George Bernard Shaw was highly criticised by the establishment in the UK... He chose to respond at the end of the war with a cutting drama which was both a commentary on the great War, and a devastating attack on the Spiritually bankrupt generation who were responsible for it.

The title he chose was "Closed for Remodeling", and despite the anticipation of Shaw's newest work audiences were poor....Finally they worked out what was wrong... the playbills that had been posted all around London advertising it had only served to convince people that the theatre was closed for refurbishments!

The Play name was changed to Heartbreak House and reopened to much better audiences... and has been known by that title ever since.

The latter example that I refered in the course of the puzzle was "Kentucky Fried Movie" in the seventies... which was originally to have the same title... but this time the distributors caught it and refused... Good move!

Well done to all who played...and to Bentarm for finally nailing it down!
Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member
Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1264
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice... I can't help but feel a little bit skeptical about the truth of this story though (although apparently Snopes believes it). I mean... why wouldn't they have GBS' name on the playbills?

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