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Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 111
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When they were done playing, Derek was arrested for murder.

Please refrain from quick solutions! This one might not last long.
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 708
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Derek = H?A?M?
They = H?A? gender relevant?

Relevant who 'they' are? and what 'they' are playing? Is Derek playing with them? is he watching? Is he near them?

Is it relevant whether or not he committed the murder he was arrested for?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 114
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Derek = H?A?M? yes
They = H?A? gender relevant? yes, yes, not really, but likely a group of adult males

Relevant who 'they' are? yes and what 'they' are playing? yes Is Derek playing with them? no is he watching? no Is he near them? no

Is it relevant whether or not he committed the murder he was arrested for? yope, but for the sake of understanding, he is guilty
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 710
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are 'they' sports teams? Are they playing a game of sports? If so, relevant what sport it is? Does Derek know they are playing?

Any other relevant persons except Derek and 'they'?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 119
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Parents beating each other to a pulp over their kids' soccer games or whatever?

Are kids involved in this puzzle?

Are they playing a video game instead? Or maybe a simulation of some sort? Are they playing over the internet somehow?

Or maybe they're playing some sort of board game? Monopoly can sometimes turn bloody...

Outdoors? Indoors?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 115
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are 'they' sports teams? no Are they playing a game of sports? no If so, relevant what sport it is? Does Derek know they are playing? no

Any other relevant persons except Derek and 'they'? yes

Parents beating each other to a pulp over their kids' soccer games or whatever? no

Are kids involved in this puzzle? no

Are they playing a video game instead? no Or maybe a simulation of some sort? no Are they playing over the internet somehow? no

Or maybe they're playing some sort of board game? no Monopoly can sometimes turn bloody...

Outdoors? Indoors? Could be either.
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 116
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are 'they' sports teams? no Are they playing a game of sports? no If so, relevant what sport it is? Does Derek know they are playing? no

Any other relevant persons except Derek and 'they'? yes

Parents beating each other to a pulp over their kids' soccer games or whatever? no

Are kids involved in this puzzle? no

Are they playing a video game instead? no Or maybe a simulation of some sort? no Are they playing over the internet somehow? no

Or maybe they're playing some sort of board game? no Monopoly can sometimes turn bloody...

Outdoors? Indoors? Could be either.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 391
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An orchestra? Band?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 712
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other relevant person(s);
1? 2? 3-5? 6-10? 10+? H? A? Gender relevant?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 134
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they engaged any activity whatsoever?

Are they playing a game? an instrument? just playing around, with each other somehow? and it isn't entirely significant what they're doing?

Is there any good reason for Derek being arrested after playing, and not during? Perhaps the act of 'them playing' establishes enough of a reason to make an arrest? If so, is Derek basically making it obvious himself that he is guilty?

Is it important who was murdered? why? with what? when?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anyone die as a result of the events in this puzzle? Were they killed? Did Derek kill them?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 1080
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they witness the murder? call the police?

is the other relevant person a victim? witness? friend of Dereks?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 117
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An orchestra? Band? no to both

The other relevant person(s);
1? 2? 3-5? this one 6-10? 10+? H? yes A? yes Gender relevant? I said above that they were 'probably' all male - allow me to change to that to 'definetly' all male

Are they engaged any activity whatsoever? yes

Are they playing a game? yes an instrument? just playing around, with each other somehow? and it isn't entirely significant what they're doing? it IS significant what they're doing

Is there any good reason for Derek being arrested after playing, and not during? no Perhaps the act of 'them playing' establishes enough of a reason to make an arrest? hmmm, no, something happened during the specific game they were playing If so, is Derek basically making it obvious himself that he is guilty? no

Is it important who was murdered? why? with what? when? not for you to decipher, but it factored into why Derek was arrested

Did anyone die as a result of the events in this puzzle? not from the events in the puzzle Were they killed? no Did Derek kill them? no

do they witness the murder? rephrase please call the police? yes

is the other relevant person a victim? yes witness? I'm assuming you're inquiring about the "other relevant person" I answered yes to with this question. there was a witness, but separate from the victim friend of Dereks? no
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 137
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clue?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 119
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clue? you want one or this is a guess on the game? either way, no to both *smile*
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 138
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'Arrested for murder' - just to make sure, there were police involved? that made the arrest? for real murder, with a real body or bodies involved?

Was anyone killed during the game? before?

Is this game being televised? watched by a big audience? a small one?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 120
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'Arrested for murder' - just to make sure, there were police involved? yes that made the arrest? yes for real murder yes, with a real body or bodies involved? yes

Was anyone killed during the game? no before? yes

Is this game being televised? watched by a big audience? a small one? not televised, no crowd, just the players involved
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 141
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, around three to five adult males playing some sort of non-sports game either outside or inside. Not a board game either, but a game of some type.

Is it a game where score is kept? Is it a game that people tend to not take seriously? Is there any type of equipment that is used to play it?

Did someone uncover some physical evidence while playing the game and call the authorities? Would this maybe be able to be uncovered without playing a game, but unlikely; e.g., hide and seek, where the bloody weapon or body was in the best hiding spot ever?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 121
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, around three to five adult males playing some sort of non-sports game either outside or inside. Not a board game either, but a game of some type. yes. board game is closest, but there is neither a board, nor dice...

Is it a game where score is kept? there's a winner, but not really a score per se Is it a game that people tend to not take seriously? yes Is there any type of equipment that is used to play it? i wouldnt call it 'equipment', but there is something that is used to play the game, yes

Did someone uncover some physical evidence while playing the game and call the authorities? hmmm... I'll say 'no' to the 'physical' part, but something occurred in the game that provoked one of the players to call the authorities

Would this maybe be able to be uncovered without playing a game, but unlikely; e.g., hide and seek, where the bloody weapon or body was in the best hiding spot ever? Derek could have been arrested outside of the events of this game, yes. but something happened during this game that resulted in Derek's arrest
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Party game of some sort, like a trivia game? Truth or dare? Some word association game? Pictionary?

Did Derek basically admit (unwittingly) to killing someone that recently died while playing the game?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 122
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Party game of some sort, like a trivia game? Truth or dare? Some word association game? Pictionary? none of the above

Did Derek basically admit (unwittingly) to killing someone that recently died while playing the game? no
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the players in the same location while playing? Are they talking? Using their hands? Legs? Some part of their torso?

Would this game be known all over the world?
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Derek related to any of the players? or a good friend of a player?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 123
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the players in the same location while playing? yes Are they talking? yes Using their hands? yes, altho their 'hands' are not part of the game (ie if the game was Yahtzee, i'd say 'yes' since they use their hands to throw the dice, but don't take this 'yes' to say its a game like rock/scissors/paper where the hands are the main part of the game) Legs? Some part of their torso? no

Would this game be known all over the world? yes
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Derek related to any of the players? no or a good friend of a player? friend? no. acquaintance? yes.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the players interacting by talking to each other? If so, are there a set of predefined replies? or reactions? or can the reply be anything?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Card game? Dice game?

Are they playing with money?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 125
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Card game? yes! Dice game? no

Are they playing with money? no
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 126
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the players interacting by talking to each other? yes If so, are there a set of predefined replies? yes or reactions? yope or can the reply be anything? to follow the game, there's a list of predefined replies
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they playing poker? ginrummy? bridge?

does anything relevant happen in the room they are playing in? is the tv on?

is Derek known to one of the players? if so is it relevant how? is Derek in the same building as the players? street? village/town/city?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they playing poker? ginrummy? bridge? no to all

does anything relevant happen in the room they are playing in? is the tv on? no and no

is Derek known to one of the players? yes if so is it relevant how? yes is Derek in the same building as the players? street? village/town/city? none of these
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 146
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, during the course of this game, it is made clear to someone that Derek is a murderer.

Does this take place in modern times? I live a few miles away from Deadwood, and the murder of Wild Bill Hickock comes to mind.

Was this fact ever brought up publicly?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 128
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, during the course of this game, it is made clear to someone that Derek is a murderer. yes

Does this take place in modern times? yes, its a true story, happened a few months ago I live a few miles away from Deadwood, and the murder of Wild Bill Hickock comes to mind.

Was this fact ever brought up publicly? yes
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should have been a bit more careful with that last question.

There's the murderer, Derek. Someone (group of people?) finds out that he's a murderer while the game is going on, can I call him Hickock to be as confusing as possible?

This game goes on: for minutes? an hour? two hours? three hours? four hours? five hours?

Hickock finds out about the incident at: the beginning of the game? an hour into it? two hours? three? four? at the end?

Does Hickock know that someone has been killed? Does Hickock know who? Is Hickock unusually suspicious? Is there any good reason why he finds out about it and the rest do not? Is Hickock a cop?

Are the cards themselves involved in Hickock's deduction of murder? the placement? distribution amongst the players? Does it have more to do with the 'score' that is being kept? Is someone cheating at this game? Derek? Hickock? Are they playing seriously? or is it more like something to do while getting drunk? is alcohol involved? are pictures of the corpse involved? parts of the corpse?

What's Hickock's next move; does he confront Derek about it directly, in front of everyone? does he confront Derek by himself? does he discreetly call the authorities?

Is Hickock merely doing this because he thinks that he is legally obligated to rat out Derek?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's the murderer, Derek. Someoneyes (group of people?no) finds out that he's a murderer while the game is going on, can I call him Hickock to be as confusing as possible? Confusing pronoun in there, to clarify: Hickock is playing cards, discovers that Derek is a murderer.

This game goes on: for minutes? an hour? two hours? three hours? four hours? five hours? irrev, but could have been as quickly as 10 minutes

Hickock finds out about the incident at: the beginning of the game? early in the game, probably half-way thru it an hour into it? two hours? three? four? at the end?

Does Hickock know that someone has been killed? yes Does Hickock know who? yes Is Hickock unusually suspicious? why would he be suspicious? confused, rephrase? Is there any good reason why he finds out about it and the rest do not? yes Is Hickock a cop? no...

Are the cards themselves involved in Hickock's deduction of murder? yes the placement? no distribution amongst the players? yope Does it have more to do with the 'score' that is being kept? no Is someone cheating at this game? Derek? Hickock? no cheating Are they playing seriously? yes or is it more like something to do while getting drunk? no is alcohol involved? no are pictures of the corpse involved? yes parts of the corpse? yope

What's Hickock's next move; does he confront Derek about it directly, in front of everyone? no does he confront Derek by himself? no does he discreetly no call the authorities? yes

Is Hickock merely doing this because he thinks that he is legally obligated to rat out Derek? no

good questions, one question was very very good.
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so Hickock is female. Great.

Hickock would be suspicious because she knows that someone has been recently killed, and the murderer is still at large (does she know this?). Murder makes people edgy. Is she suspicious? Is she watching out for things she normally wouldn't be?

Is Derek a cop? Is the victim (how about calling him WCC?) a cop? Are any of the players cops?

Are there pictures of the corpse on the cards? attached to the cards? within the card deck?

Does this take place in Derek's residence? near it? near WCC's rotting corpse?

Hickock calls the authorities. With a phone? With the standard police office number? Does Derek know that she's calling?

Hickock is not doing this just because she thinks she needs to? she wants revenge for WCC? she wants Derek to rot in jail? she wants something else?

Hickock receives a card. She receives another card. She receives another card. She then realizes that Derek killed WCC. Accurate?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so Hickock is female. Great.no. did I mislead? if so, no, Hickock is not female

Hickock would be suspicious because she knows that someone has been recently killed, and the murderer is still at large (does she know this?) Murder makes people edgy. Is she suspicious? no Is she watching out for things she normally wouldn't be? not really

Is Derek a cop? no Is the victim (how about calling him WCC?) a cop? no Are any of the players cops? no

Are there pictures of the corpse on the cards? yes attached to the cards? 'on' the cards is a better way to say this within the card deck?

Does this take place in Derek's residence? yope near it? no near WCC's rotting corpse? no

Hickock calls the authorities. With a phone? With the standard police office number? Does Derek know that she's calling? no to all

Hickock is not doing this just because she thinks she needs to? she wants revenge for WCC? not exactly she wants Derek to rot in jail? this is closest she wants something else? this is a yope

Hickock receives a card. She receives another card. She receives another card. She then realizes that Derek killed WCC. Accurate? wow, it gets tricky here. Hickock received a card, saw something on the card, then contacted the authorities to say he knows Derek should be arrested.

Things to be determined:
Where are these guys playing cards?
What game were they playing?
Why am I having a hard time answering the 'Was Hickock 'suspicious'?' questions?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Hickock know that the murderer has yet to be found?

There are no cops involved at all in this puzzle except for the ones that are called in by Hickock?

Better thing to be determined: Just why the hell would a murderer put pictures of his victims on his cards?

Yes and no to 'Derek's residence'... does Derek live at the card-playing place? Was WCC killed there?

He has it out for Derek? But he also wants something else, something he wouldn't be able to get with Derek running wild? Is Derek not mentally stable, despite killing people?

Hickock signals the police in a completely unusual way? relevant way? Walks downtown and talks to them? Shows them the card?

I'm assuming this isn't a usual deck. Is this an ordinary 52 card deck? an altered version of the 52 card deck (besides the corpse pictures)? CCG? Did Derek print this deck himself? Did he just want to be caught?

Hickock knew that someone (a friend?) has recently died. Does he know that it was murder? How recently did it take place: a day ago? week? month? year? Did Hickock witness any part of the murder, including overhearing conversations?

And despite knowing that it's murder, he isn't the least bit edgy? He has zero reason to suspect Derek of murder? But since he figures out that it has to be him, he decides, what the hell, turn him in?

Is the picture one that everyone else but Hickock would be okay with? Is it really of a corpse? of WCC? of WCC shortly after being murdered? of WCC alive, but in a situation that proves without a doubt that anyone with possession of the picture killed him/her/it?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 133
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Hickock know that the murderer has yet to be found? yes

There are no cops involved at all in this puzzle except for the ones that are called in by Hickock? true

Better thing to be determined: Just why the hell would a murderer put pictures of his victims on his cards? add that to the list of things to be determined

Yes and no to 'Derek's residence'... does Derek live at the card-playing place? yes Was WCC killed there? no

He has it out for Derek? if you saw someone rob a liquor store and turned them in to the cops, would it be accurate that 'you have it out for Derek'? I dont think so, so I'll say 'no' to this But he also wants something else, something he wouldn't be able to get with Derek running wild? FA, he doesnt want anything from Derek Is Derek not mentally stable, despite killing people? Derek's mentality is not important - he's as stable as a murderer can be

Hickock signals the police in a completely unusual way? no, complete opposite, the more usual way short of telephoning them relevant way? yes, how he tells them is relevant Walks downtown and talks to them? not exactly Shows them the card? yes

I'm assuming this isn't a usual deck. Is this an ordinary 52 card deck? 52 cards, yes an altered version of the 52 card deck (besides the corpse pictures)? no CCG? dont know what this means Did Derek print this deck himself? no Did he just want to be caught? no

Hickock knew that someone (a friend?) has recently died. no Does he know that it was murder? yes How recently did it take place: a day ago? week? month? year? 2004 Did Hickock witness any part of the murder, including overhearing conversations? yes

And despite knowing that it's murder, he isn't the least bit edgy? no He has zero reason to suspect Derek of murder? let me clarify this as I think there was some misunderstanding on my part earlier: when he sees the card, a light goes off in his head that 'hey, Derek is guilty'. he might have been suspicious that Derek was a murderer but... But since he figures out that it has to be him, he decides, what the hell, turn him in? yes, this is his mentality

Is the picture one that everyone else but Hickock would be okay with? hmm, no Is it really of a corpse? of WCC? of WCC shortly after being murdered? of WCC alive this one, maybe a blooper earlier - the picture is of WCC alive, but..., but in a situation that proves without a doubt that anyone with possession of the picture killed him/her/it? FA

ok, let me recap to steer you out of some FA's:

Hickock and buddies are playing a card game. During the game, Hickock sees a picture on one of the cards of WCC. After the game is over, he informs the authorities that Derek (and gives them last name so as not to be vague) is a murderer.

It's safe to say that Hickock knows of Derek and knew he might be a murderer, but until this game, he had no reason to go to the authorities to point a finger at Derek.

Probably a good time to ask questions about Hickock and his friends, the location of the game, and the game itself (altho not as important since you discoverd there is a picture(s) on the card(s), but refers to puzzle title).
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Go fish? Uno? anything similar?

(late for class)
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Go fish? thats it

Uno? anything similar?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Hickock and his friends in jail? Are they in an appartment block?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Hickock and his friends in jail? yes! Are they in an appartment block? not sure i know what this is?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Derek in jail too? Does Hickock know Derek from his criminal activities? If so, relevant what those are?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Derek attach or otherwise put a photo of WCC in of some form along with the standard 52 card deck?

Is it relevant how they got a deck of playing cards, since they're in prison?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just one idea that popped in to my head as I was going to log off and go to bed. Did Hickock and the others make the deck of cards themselves? For instance by using photos?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That just gave me an idea, too ... probably the same one. Have Hickock or the majority of the go-fish players been arrested for murder, too? Is the deck full of photos of their murder victims? Or maybe Hickock and most of his friends are not actually prisoners, or murderers, but are merely trying to elicit a sort of confession out of Derek by making him think that it is safe to talk about his crimes?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*Flashing idea*
Was Derek related to the victim? 4 suits in the deck?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 5:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Derek in jail too? no Does Hickock know Derek from his criminal activities? his=Hickock's? yesIf so, relevant what those are? no

Did Derek attach or otherwise put a photo of WCC in of some form along with the standard 52 card deck? no

Is it relevant how they got a deck of playing cards, since they're in prison? yes

Just one idea that popped in to my head as I was going to log off and go to bed. Did Hickock and the others make the deck of cards themselves? no For instance by using photos? no


That just gave me an idea, too ... probably the same one. Have Hickock or the majority of the go-fish players been arrested for murder, too? they are all in jail, thats all that's relevant Is the deck full of photos of their murder victims? no Or maybe Hickock and most of his friends are not actually prisoners, or murderers, but are merely trying to elicit a sort of confession out of Derek by making him think that it is safe to talk about his crimes? no all around

*Flashing idea*
Was Derek related to the victim? 4 suits in the deck? no
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 6:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a photo (or other representation?) of WCC somehow attached, printed onto, glued onto, taped to, wrapped around, or otherwise bound to one card in this deck? more than one? Is this an ordinary 52-card deck with, for whatever reason, a photo of WCC somewhere in it?

Derek isn't playing go fish with them?

Does someone in the group, besides Hickock at the end, know that Derek has killed someone? Are they accomplices in this crime?

Is this Derek's deck? Hickock's? not relevant whose? Did Derek attach a photo of WCC to a card? Did Hickock? Did anyone in the group of players do so? Did a warden or some other authority do so, in an attempt to indirectly discover the murderer as described above?

Is it accurate to say that Hickock wants Derek in jail? in the same jail as Hickock? do Derek and Hickock get along with each other?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 6:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How exactly did you think a puzzle with pictures of corpses attached to playing cards used by prisoners playing Go Fish wouldn't last long?

I just read the rules for this card game. Is the telltale card drawn from the deck directly by Hickock? or is it first drawn by someone else? and if so, does it trade hands before arriving at Hickock? once? twice? three times? until everyone but Hickock has seen it? Do the other cellmates know what number the card was, before they received it? Is it accurate to say that everyone but Hickock that sees the card attaches no special meaning to the picture and therefore does not take any further action? Would they have any reason to wonder why there are pictures on it? Is this a pornographic deck or something similar? Would Hickock be able to deduct Derek's crime if he just thumbed through the deck, card by card, examining each closely? if he just flipped through the deck quickly?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a photo (or other representation?) of WCC somehow attached, printed onto this one, glued onto, taped to, wrapped around, or otherwise bound to one card in this deck? more than one? Is this an ordinary 52-card deck with, for whatever reason, a photo of WCC somewhere in it? ordinary in that it has 52 cards, 4 suits of 13 cards each, etc, yes. extraordinary in that it has a picture of someone who has died

Derek isn't playing go fish with them? correct

Does someone in the group, besides Hickock at the end, know that Derek has killed someone? no Are they accomplices in this crime? no

Is this Derek's deck? Hickock's? not relevant whose? only somewhat relevant whose deck it is, but its not Hickock's nor Derek's deck Did Derek attach a photo of WCC to a card? no Did Hickock? Did anyone in the group of players do so? Did a warden or some other authority do so, in an attempt to indirectly discover the murderer as described above? yes!

Is it accurate to say that Hickock wants Derek in jail? yes in the same jail as Hickock? no do Derek and Hickock get along with each other? not likely

How exactly did you think a puzzle with pictures of corpses attached to playing cards used by prisoners playing Go Fish wouldn't last long? it was a news story, not sure if someone had heard it - it's getting close to the point where someone will say 'oh ya, I've heard of something like that'

I just read the rules for this card game. Is the telltale card drawn from the deck directly by Hickock? or is it first drawn by someone else? and if so, does it trade hands before arriving at Hickock? once? twice? three times? until everyone but Hickock has seen it? not relevant the order of play nor the game, only that they're playing a game with the cards. Hickock sees the card (first drawn card, or a card he sees someone else have), and see's the picture on the card

Do the other cellmates know what number the card was, before they received it? dont understand this question, number of the card is ultimately irrelevant Is it accurate to say that everyone but Hickock that sees the card attaches no special meaning to the picture and therefore does not take any further action? correct Would they have any reason to wonder why there are pictures on it? no Is this a pornographic deck no or something similar? similiar Would Hickock be able to deduct Derek's crime if he just thumbed through the deck, card by card, examining each closely? yes if he just flipped through the deck quickly? 'quickly' is a tricky word here -- if you are asking this to be opposite of the previous question, esp the part about "examining each closely', then I'll say no, without looking at the picture he might not recognize the person on the card and thus not connect it with Derek.
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it doesn't matter that they were playing at all, just that the cards were circulating around?

Does it matter what type of prisoners this jail houses? Is it accurate to call this a 'jail'? Is this a county prison? state prison? or is it a special type of internment center that is being used to house people that are all suspected to be guilty of roughly the same offense? and if so, does its location matter?

Did the jail administrators make a card deck with pictures of murder victims on them? Or is this more of a mass-produced type of deck, but still with pictures on them? Are all of the pictures supposed to be of murder victims? of dead people? are some deliberately fake?

Hickock remembers that WCC is somehow connected to Derek? interpreting this picture (which Hickock recognizes) in this deck (which holds some special meaning for its pictures) causes Hickock to realize that Derek is almost certainly responsible? and informs the prison authorities? and later testifies against Derek?

Was WCC one of Derek's previous associates? was WCC otherwise involved with Derek? was WCC someone that was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

You said earlier that Hickock sorta witnessed Derek murdering WCC. Was Hickock directly involved with the murder? indirectly? Hickock knew that WCC was murdered? Hickock perhaps is in jail for murdering WCC? was Derek the only person that could be legitimately charged with murder? was Derek a suspect, but not charged? because of a lack of witnesses or evidence? Did Hickock ever see WCC's face while WCC was alive? dead? If you take out the cards, and tell Hickock 'WCC is dead', will it be obvious to Hickock that Derek killed WCC? is WCC a rat?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it doesn't matter that they were playing at all, just that the cards were circulating around? yes

Does it matter what type of prisoners this jail houses? no Is it accurate to call this a 'jail'? irrev, but sure Is this a county prison? state prison? <b><this> or is it a special type of internment center that is being used to house people that are all suspected to be guilty of roughly the same offense? no and if so, does its location matter?

Did the jail administrators make a card deck with pictures of murder victims on them? yes Or is this more of a mass-produced type of deck, but still with pictures on them? Are all of the pictures supposed to be of murder victims? yope of dead people? yope are some deliberately fake?

Hickock remembers that WCC is somehow connected to Derek? yes interpreting this picture (which Hickock recognizes) in this deck (which holds some special meaning for its pictures) causes Hickock to realize that Derek is almost certainly responsible? yes and informs the prison authorities? yes and later testifies against Derek? irrev

Was WCC one of Derek's previous associates? was WCC otherwise involved with Derek? was WCC someone that was in the wrong place at the wrong time? everything related to the murder is irrev (because I dont know the details of this part of the news story, but more specifically to this puzzle consider it irrev)

You said earlier that Hickock sorta witnessed Derek murdering WCC. Was Hickock directly involved with the murder? indirectly? Hickock knew that WCC was murdered? Hickock perhaps is in jail for murdering WCC? was Derek the only person that could be legitimately charged with murder? was Derek a suspect, but not charged? because of a lack of witnesses or evidence? Did Hickock ever see WCC's face while WCC was alive? dead? If you take out the cards, and tell Hickock 'WCC is dead', will it be obvious to Hickock that Derek killed WCC? is WCC a rat? lots of good questions, but these are hard to answer -- i'll put a spoiler if you can determine exactly why the cards had pictures on them. Hickock recognized WCC, and knew Derek was responsible for the murder of WCC, assume he just knows this to be the case - but whats up with the cards? (almost spoiler time)
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So cards showing pictures of murder victims are intentionally given to the inmates? Is there any other information on the cards?

On the specific card: Any distinguishing marks? Tattoos? Jewelry?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My only idea is that this card deck is the widely publicized mass-produced deck of cards that is being used by US and other forces to show potential witnesses pictures of wanted terrorists or insurgents.

Or, this is a spinoff of that idea used locally in prisons to circulate pictures of suspects or persons of interest? Hickock recognizes the picture as someone who is dead, and this association somehow gives a good bit of evidence to Derek's guilt?

Answer this at least. If you take out the cards, and tell Hickock 'WCC is dead', will it be obvious to Hickock that Derek murdered WCC?
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My only idea is that this card deck is the widely publicized mass-produced deck of cards that is being used by US and other forces to show potential witnesses pictures of wanted terrorists or insurgents. this is it

** SPOILER **
This is from a news story:
FORT MYERS, Fla. -- A prison card game dealt police the tip they needed to arrest a man for a 2004 murder, authorities said.

In July, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement gave nearly 93,000 state inmates playing cards which highlight 104 of the state's most troubling unsolved murder and missing persons cases.

On Friday, their game of Go Fish paid off when an inmate gave a tip about the murder of James Foote, who was found dead with a gunshot wound to his chest in Fort Myers almost three years ago. Foote's picture and details of his murder were on one of the cards.

Derrick L. Hamilton, was arrested and charged with felony murder at his home, Fort Myers Police Sgt. Abdul Salaam said. Hamilton is being held without bond at Lee County Jail. It was not known if he had legal representation.

It was the first prison tip authorities have received since dealing the cards, Department of Corrections spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said.

"If one case is solved because of these paying cards it makes the entire initiative worthwhile," she said. "But we hope this is the first of many."

A second deck is already in the works, she said. Authorities are hoping to make enough so that every new inmate will receive one.


-----------

This story struck me as odd in the fact that the inmates were playing Go Fish!

Thanks for playing - sorry I couldn't answer the questions towards the end because, as you see, in the story it's not clear how he knew Derek was guilty, and I felt like I was going to get backed into a corner making up a reason.
Tweek (Tweek)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'Go fish' in that story above is an analogy, I would think, describing the methods that the Florida Dept of Law Enforcement are using to get tipoffs.
Visconti (Visconti)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hah, I think you're right! I read it too literal. Oh well, the image of inmates saying "hmmm, do you have a 3? dang" makes me laugh either way.

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