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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi folks, I'm a newbie to the board (though not to lateral thinking puzzles). I work as a children's librarian and use them to drive teenagers nuts. Here's my first:

A man once spent several months patiently collecting toilet paper. For what purpose?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Welcome to the forum Jenburdoo! Please take time to read the faq (if you haven't already done so. I have added your name to the puzzle for you).

Is this toilet paper regular stuff that you would find within the toilets/bathrooms of most dwelling places?

Are we talking rolls or separate pieces of paper?

Was he preparing for a football match (or similar)?
Preparing for a televised commercial?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this toilet paper regular stuff that you would find within the toilets/bathrooms of most dwelling places? No.

Are we talking rolls or separate pieces of paper? Separate pieces of paper.

Was he preparing for a football match (or similar)? No sports involved.
Preparing for a televised commercial? No.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and thanks for the welcome, Beroean. I've been lurking for years, but the place seemed too chaotic at first. I may be experimenting with puzzles, since some of the ones I've used recently have gotten annoyed reactions because I phrased them incorrectly. Is there an area in here where I can discuss a puzzle and its wording?
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can always ask for help or discuss your puzzles in the chatroom, which is located nicely near the top of the active puzzle page. Welcome to the forums! ^__^

Was he collecting tp from famous peoples' houses?
(My friend wants to know if it was used...)
Was he taking it in preparation for anything (ie, camping) or just for his own amusement?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 5:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the tip.

Was he collecting tp from famous peoples' houses? No.
(My friend wants to know if it was used...) Yes, it was.
Was he taking it in preparation for anything (ie, camping) No. or just for his own amusement? No.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have an idea about this from something that I read a while back. If I am on the right track it will $poil the puzzle which would be a shame at this stage.

In the case of a possible early $poiler it is customary for the puzzler to email the host with the proposed answer and then duck out of the puzzle if it is correct, thereby allowing others to continue the puzzle. Unfortunately you don't have an email we can use so I am unable to email you. Anyway I could be on the wrong track, so let's see.


Was the collection of used toilet paper for .... (question deleted as it gives too much away)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um, yes... you don't think that gives too much of it away?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Erk. I notice I can't change my email from the Edit Profile section. How do I access it?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1467
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You should be able to insert an email in Edit Profile Section. Otherwis you could try further down the edit page to where it says Category Title:
Your Answer:

Suggestion...
Category Title: to email me add these two together
Your Answer: myname at whatever.com

That will ensure anonymity from email harvesters.

Alternatively you could put those details here and I could insert your email for you.

I have deleted my question because it is too much information - hopefully nobody has seen it or they have forgotten :-)

I'll assume that I know the answer to this one.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found your email for .... @stumail.emporia.edu
However the mail I sent to this address was returned as "Mailbox not found"
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now I've discovered your incognito email :-)

Email sent. Is it correct(ish)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yep. Others may feel free to solve now.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Without getting gross when you say it was used was it used for the purpose that it is made for?

Was he planning to build something out of them, Papier Mache springs to mind?

Is the man's occupation relevant? Would a reasonable person consider what he was doing disgusting? eccentric? devious? honourable? or just downright weird?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Without getting gross when you say it was used was it used for the purpose that it is made for? Errr, yope is probably a good answer here.

Was he planning to build something out of them, Papier Mache springs to mind? no

Is the man's occupation relevant? yes Would a reasonable person consider what he was doing disgusting? yes eccentric? yes devious? yes honourable? probably not, but ymmv or just downright weird? possibly, but irrelevant
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say it is not the regular toilet paper you would find in most dwellings do you mean it's a particularly fancy sort of toilet paper? e.g. quilted (can't belive i'm discussing types of toilet paper:0)

Just to further clarify this is the toilet paper/tissue that comes wound around a cardboard tube isn't it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say it is not the regular toilet paper you would find in most dwellings do you mean it's a particularly fancy sort of toilet paper? e.g. quilted (can't belive i'm discussing types of toilet paper:0) It's not fancy.

Just to further clarify this is the toilet paper/tissue that comes wound around a cardboard tube isn't it? No, it isn't.
Travis (Travis)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "toilet paper" the piece of paperish stuff you lay on the seat when you need to sit down on a public toilet?

I'm with you, Peter. Add the above sentence to the list of things I never thought I'd say on a forum.
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say "used", do you mean he collected it, then used it; or that he collected "used toilet paper"?

Add this one too... lol
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "toilet paper" the piece of paperish stuff you lay on the seat when you need to sit down on a public toilet? No

When you say "used", do you mean he collected it, then used it; or that he collected "used toilet paper"? He collected "used toilet paper"
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what the toilet paper had been used for? If it is, was it used the "normal" way? used in some other way?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what the toilet paper had been used for? If it is, was it used the "normal" way? used in some other way? It was used in the "normal" way, ie, someone used it to wipe their butt after going to the bathroom. This is somewhat relevant.
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it manufactured as toilet paper? Boxes with pull out sheets?
Did it have writing on it?
Was it cut/torn up newspaper?
Was he in prison?
Was someone else communicating with him?
Did anyone collect his toilet paper?
Did he keep his collection of paper in an ever increasing amount?
Was the paper in the sewage system when he took it? In the lavatory? Left somewhere else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it manufactured as toilet paper? No Boxes with pull out sheets? No
Did it have writing on it? Yes
Was it cut/torn up newspaper? No
Was he in prison? No
Was someone else communicating with him? Via the toilet paper? No
Did anyone collect his toilet paper? If you mean the stuff HE was using, no
Did he keep his collection of paper in an ever increasing amount? Yes
Was the paper in the sewage system when he took it? Yope In the lavatory? Yope Left somewhere else? No
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it print of some sort? A book? Was it handwriting?
Did he collect it at sea?
Was he a lighthouse keeper desperate to know how the story finished?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it print of some sort? A book? Was it handwriting? Not a book, but may have included both printed AND handwritten material
Did he collect it at sea? No
Was he a lighthouse keeper desperate to know how the story finished? No
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crossword collection?
A diary?
Is a crime involved?
Was it only one person's toilet paper he collected?
Did he live in the same house as the paper user? the same building?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he get the toilet paper from...

...taking it out of toilet bowls? in public bathrooms? private ones?
...taking it out of some other body of water? n ocean? reservoir? sewage system?
...asking people to send it to them? by mail? or giving it to him in person?

Who put the writing/print on it -- him? the "user" of the toilet paper? someone else? When was the writing/print put on it -- before use? after use but before "he" collected it? after "he" collected it?

Was he a scientist? Was he studying the bacteria found in feces? or some other component of feces? Was the toilet paper specially prepared to detect bacteria? or something else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crossword collection? No
A diary? No
Is a crime involved? No
Was it only one person's toilet paper he collected? No
Did he live in the same house as the paper user? No the same building? No

Did he get the toilet paper from...

...taking it out of toilet bowls? No in public bathrooms? No private ones? No
...taking it out of some other body of water? No n ocean? No reservoir? No sewage system? No
...asking people to send it to them? by mail? or giving it to him in person? He was not the only person looking -- others sent or brought him more

Who put the writing/print on it -- him? the "user" of the toilet paper? The user someone else? When was the writing/print put on it -- before use? Before use after use but before "he" collected it? after "he" collected it?

Was he a scientist? No Was he studying the bacteria found in feces? No or some other component of feces? No Was the toilet paper specially prepared to detect bacteria? No or something else? No
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the users the ones who sent him the toilet paper?

Did he instruct the users to write on the toilet paper? Did he tell them what to write?

Was is job relevant? If so, was it...

Artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Security / Law Enforcement?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation /Livery / Trucking ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Other?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the users the ones who sent him the toilet paper? no

Did he instruct the users to write on the toilet paper? no Did he tell them what to write? no

Was is job relevant? Yes If so, was it...

Artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ? This one
Security / Law Enforcement?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation /Livery / Trucking ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Other?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, something is written on the toilet paper by the users, and then he ends up with it and reads it, but there's no intentional "communication"...

...is the writing even relevant at all?
...do the users put the writing there on purpose? or somehow accidentally write on it? Are they even aware that they're writing something?
...are the users "bad guys" (at least from his perspective)? Are the users inadvertently revealing information to him?
...do the users expect him to get the toilet paper and to read what is written?

Was he a political candidate? Elected official? Soldier? Spy? Military officer? General?

Was the toilet paper a way of communicating in secret? A way of surreptitiously collecting information?

If, after he got the toilet paper, he transcribed the writing on the toilet paper onto another medium, could he then destroy the toilet paper without compromising his objectives? Or was there some other relevant evidence on the toilet paper? Fingerprints? DNA evidence? Other forensic evidence? Was he investigating a crime?

Does it have anything to do with proving that someone knew or had something at a particular time? Like when people send themselves evidence via certified mail to prove when they originally got it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, something is written on the toilet paper by the users, and then he ends up with it and reads it, but there's no intentional "communication"... Yes

...is the writing even relevant at all? Yes
...do the users put the writing there on purpose? Yes or somehow accidentally write on it? No Are they even aware that they're writing something? Yes
...are the users "bad guys" (at least from his perspective)? Yes Are the users inadvertently revealing information to him? Yes
...do the users expect him to get the toilet paper and to read what is written? No

Was he a political candidate? No Elected official? No Soldier? Yes Spy? Yes Military officer? Yes General? No

Was the toilet paper a way of communicating in secret? No A way of surreptitiously collecting information? Yes

If, after he got the toilet paper, he transcribed the writing on the toilet paper onto another medium, could he then destroy the toilet paper without compromising his objectives? Yes Or was there some other relevant evidence on the toilet paper? Some of the time Fingerprints? No DNA evidence? No Other forensic evidence? Yes Was he investigating a crime? No

Does it have anything to do with proving that someone knew or had something at a particular time? No Like when people send themselves evidence via certified mail to prove when they originally got it? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the people write on the paper but are not communicating intentionally.

I take it that we have to ascertain why people would write on paper and then use it as toilet paper?

Were the writers all in the one location? A p.o.w. camp? prison?

Is the era relevant? 20th century? During WWII?

Do we have to establish what the people were writing ? Names & Addresses?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I take it that we have to ascertain why people would write on paper and then use it as toilet paper? Yes

Were the writers all in the one location? No A p.o.w. camp? No prison? No

Is the era relevant? Yes 20th century? Yes During WWII? No

Do we have to establish what the people were writing ? It would help, but you don't have to get it specifically Names & Addresses? Names, among other things.
Lporter229 (Lporter229)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the users using documents as toilet paper as a means to ensure that nobody would read what was on it (similar to the idea of shredding paper)?

Is this taking place at a military post? the enemy of our collector?

Are all of the USERS in one location?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By using it as toilet paper are they trying to destroy evidence of what they had written?

Just to clear something up: Do they actually flush the paper down the toilet or do they dispose of it in another way?

see ever growing list of questions I thought I'd never ask :o)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the users using documents as toilet paper as a means to ensure that nobody would read what was on it (similar to the idea of shredding paper)? No.

Is this taking place at a military post? Yope the enemy of our collector? Yes

Are all of the USERS in one location? No

By using it as toilet paper are they trying to destroy evidence of what they had written? No

Just to clear something up: Do they actually flush the paper down the toilet or do they dispose of it in another way? They are not flushing it, but disposing of it in another way
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the bad guys are writing information on the toilet paper, which they then use and discard, and unbeknownst to them, the collector collects the discarded toilet paper and learns their secrets. Correct so far?

What is there left to determine --

... why they were writing on the toilet paper? Did they not have any regular paper to write on? Were they writing on regular paper and using it as toilet paper? Because they didn't have enough toilet paper? Or were they just trying to save money?

... how the toilet paper was discarded? Was it flushed down into the sewage system? Was it thrown away in a garbage can? Was it thrown directly into a body of water? Was it just thrown on the ground? Was it burned? Torn up? Buried in a landfill? Recycled?

... anything else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the bad guys are writing information on the toilet paper, which they then use and discard, and unbeknownst to them, the collector collects the discarded toilet paper and learns their secrets. Correct so far?

Yep. Now why did they write on the TP and how did the other side get hold of it?

What is there left to determine --


... why they were writing on the toilet paper? Did they not have any regular paper to write on? Were they writing on regular paper and using it as toilet paper? Because they didn't have enough toilet paper? Yup Or were they just trying to save money?

... how the toilet paper was discarded? Was it flushed down into the sewage system? Was it thrown away in a garbage can? Was it thrown directly into a body of water? Was it just thrown on the ground? Was it burned? Torn up? Buried in a landfill? Recycled? OK, close enough

Spoiler:

****************************************

In German East Africa during WWI (now Tanzania), the German colonial forces were on the run from the British forces from Kenya. The fighting was fluid and units often camped out in the bush. The Germans, cut off from home, ran out of TP and started using outdated documents -- orders of battle, letters, charts, maps, anything they could get their hands on. I have no clue what the thousands of native African soldiers were using for TP, but their white officers weren't going without a civilized substitute!

An eccentric British intelligence officer noticed this, and started digging up German latrines. He couldn't get any time-critical information, of course, but he got all sorts of other useful stuff, including the signatures of every German officer.

He named it the "Dirty Paper Method."

Comments?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle although the answer was a lot less gross than i had imagined . He was certainly a dedicated soldier to endure that duty for king & country.

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