| Author | Message | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 858 Registered: 9-2003 |
Just dropping in to post a puzzle that's just a bit too good to pass up....enjoy! Title: sic erunt novissimi primi et primi novissimi Difficulty: Easy to Moderate Type: True Story Story: A rookie recorded his first major league hit before he was called-up to major leagues. To Solve: How is that possible? Specialized Knowledge Needed: Very rudimentary knowledge about baseball terminology Good luck! | ||
| Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
New member Username: Howardwoman Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2008 |
Hit in the sense as "hit a ball"? or "Put a hit on someone (i.e. get them killed)"? or another sense? | ||
| Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
New member Username: Dlcygnet Post Number: 1407 Registered: 6-2005 |
Was the hit recorded on the wrong table? Thus adjusting the date of that hit? Was it something along the lines of an American Idol "hit" instead of a baseball hit? Was the rookie "borrowed" for a game? (Can they even do that?) Did the rookie get drafted into some sort of Dream Team game that counted towards Major League stats? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 861 Registered: 9-2003 |
Howardwoman Hit in the sense as "hit a ball"? This one or "Put a hit on someone (i.e. get them killed)"? or another sense? Dlcygnet Was the hit recorded on the wrong table? No Thus adjusting the date of that hit? So no to this as well. Was it something along the lines of an American Idol "hit" instead of a baseball hit? No -- see my reply to Howardwoman above. Was the rookie "borrowed" for a game? No, nothing like this. (Can they even do that? Yes...but if you call up a rookie from the minor leagues to play a major league game, then he has been called up. Note that I specifically mention that he got his hit BEFORE getting called up. Did the rookie get drafted into some sort of Dream Team game that counted towards Major League stats? No, nothing like this. | ||
| Liquizt (Liquizt)
New member Username: Liquizt Post Number: 536 Registered: 5-2008 |
This happened at a game? a Major League game? Was the rookie actually supposed to be in the game? Was the rookie on the bench? Would the rookie sitting on the bench mean he'd been 'called up to major leagues'? Was the rookie a spectator? Did the rookie (or someone else) purposefully put him in the game, even though he hadn't officially been called up? is this even possible? Dis this puzzle revolve around 'official'ness? Did the rookie hit the ball with a bat? Did the rookie hit the ball intentionally? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 865 Registered: 9-2003 |
Liquizt This happened at a game? Yes a Major League game? Yes Was the rookie actually supposed to be in the game? Yes Was the rookie on the bench? Well...during the course of the game, he would have been on the bench at one point or another. However, he was at-bat when he got his hit -- a RBI single, if I recall my facts correctly. Would the rookie sitting on the bench mean he'd been 'called up to major leagues'? Yes Was the rookie a spectator? No Did the rookie (or someone else) purposefully put him in the game, even though he hadn't officially been called up? No is this even possible? Not really, unless the team was committing fraud -- and no, fraud is not the answer. =) Dis this puzzle revolve around 'official'ness? Yes. Good question. Did the rookie hit the ball with a bat? Yes Did the rookie hit the ball intentionally? Yes | ||
| Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
New member Username: Dlcygnet Post Number: 1409 Registered: 6-2005 |
Does pinch hitting apply here? Was he batting for somebody else? Somebody who was injured? Does that work? (I thought you could only have somebody else run for an injured player.) This RBI single... was it actually part of the game? Was he part of the half time show? Did he get the hit off of "first pitch"? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 866 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dlcygnet Does pinch hitting apply here? Irrelevant -- he was indeed put into the game as a pinch hitter, but this puzzle would have worked just as well if he had been in the starting lineup. Was he batting for somebody else? See previous answer. Somebody who was injured? Irrelevant, but no. Does that work? (I thought you could only have somebody else run for an injured player.) I think you can bat for an injured player as well, if he hurt himself badly enough during the at-bat to not be able to continue. But this isn't what is happening here. This RBI single... was it actually part of the game? Yes Was he part of the half time show? No...and there is no such thing as a half time show MLB. =) Did he get the hit off of "first pitch"? Good question. I don't know. Irrelevant at any case. The important thing was that he somehow managed to get a hit -- the RBI was just a bonus for the purposes of this puzzle. | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
New member Username: Gourami Post Number: 272 Registered: 2-2008 |
Was he allowed to play in a major league game without officially being in the major leagues? Was it later decided that he had been in the major leagues when he got the hit, although he wasn't at the moment? Was the team not officially a major league team at the time? Would you say he was unfairly excluded in any way, at any point? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 869 Registered: 9-2003 |
Gourami Was he allowed to play in a major league game without officially being in the major leagues? No Was it later decided that he had been in the major leagues when he got the hit, although he wasn't at the moment? No Was the team not officially a major league team at the time? The team was a major league team at the time of the rookie's hit. Would you say he was unfairly excluded in any way, at any point? No | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1420 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is the era when this happened relevant? Is he a very famous ballplayer? Did he share a name with another player? Was his playing that day as a result of an administrative error? Oh and a wild thought... Is military service relevant at all? | ||
| Liquizt (Liquizt)
New member Username: Liquizt Post Number: 542 Registered: 5-2008 |
Did he think he HAD been called up? but some document wasn't signed/incorrectly completed/some box not ticked that meant he offically was not yet major league? and this wasn't realised until after the game/hit? | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2008 |
Was the rookie playing for the opposing team, which was not a major league team? for example a preseason game or charity event? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 875 Registered: 9-2003 |
Peter365 Is the era when this happened relevant? Yes -- I don't think it could have happened before a certain time, though I don't know exactly when that may be. At any rate, the event took place this year. Is he a very famous ballplayer? No Did he share a name with another player? No Was his playing that day as a result of an administrative error? No, but this idea is not far from the right forest... Oh and a wild thought... Is military service relevant at all? No, but good thinking. Liquizt Did he think he HAD been called up? Well, yes but some document wasn't signed/incorrectly completed/some box not ticked that meant he offically was not yet major league? No, nothing like this. and this wasn't realised until after the game/hit? No Kaygee Was the rookie playing for the opposing team, which was not a major league team? No for example a preseason game or charity event? No...I don't think official stats are kept for pre-season and charity games. | ||
| Travis (Travis)
New member Username: Travis Post Number: 172 Registered: 12-2007 |
Has he played any more in the majors this year, or was this game his only appearance? | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2446 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hey, Haen - how you? Was he ever in the minor league? Was there some confusion which resulted in the wrong person being notified of his elevation to The Show? Is his name relevant? Some kind of clerical error? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 884 Registered: 9-2003 |
Travis Has he played any more in the majors this year, or was this game his only appearance? Yes, because Yes OR No = Yes...oh, all right: he has played in more than one game in the majors this year. =) Bodo Hey, Haen - how you? School work is extremely busy, and I'm only doing a Masters degree! I can scarcely imagine how Johanna coped with all the work she must had done for her Ph.D, but maybe my mind and body is getting too old for school -- or so I keep telling myself to make myself feel better. =P How about you, Tim? How are things with work and kids? =) Was he ever in the minor league? Yes Was there some confusion which resulted in the wrong person being notified of his elevation to The Show? No Is his name relevant? No Some kind of clerical error? No, nothing like this. | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2451 Registered: 2-2001 |
Eh, the drama queen is doing Sound of Mucus next month and the boy starts football on Sunday (after we spend the night in the Monterey Bay Aquarium on Saturday for a cub scout thingie). As for work, I'm wishing I was retired, just like I have since I was in college...(: So let me explore a bit - he was intentionally called up from the minors to play in the majors and got a hit, but do to some sort of technicality he wasn't really officially in the major leagues? Based on a specific rule or some such? Was he under age? The "wrong" ethnicity? Was he male? Human? | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2452 Registered: 2-2001 |
Arrgh!!!!11!1! I hate seeing an error after I've submitted the thing!1!! Please mentally substitute "due" for "do" in the above as appropriate, thanks very much. | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 889 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bodo Sound of Mucus, eh? Julie Andrews will be proud. =) Anyway, onto your questions... So let me explore a bit - he was intentionally called up from the minors Yes to play in the majors and got a hit Yes, but due to some sort of technicality Yes he wasn't really officially in the major leagues? But no to this last bit. Based on a specific rule or some such? There is a specific rule of major league baseball involved in this puzzle, yes, but not in the way you have suggested. Was he under age? No The "wrong" ethnicity? No Was he male? Yes Human? Yes Arrgh!!!!11!1! I hate seeing an error after I've submitted the thing!1!! Please mentally substitute "due" for "do" in the above as appropriate, thanks very much. Done! You're welcome. =) | ||
| Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
New member Username: Crazypalpig Post Number: 2177 Registered: 8-2006 |
Congrats on being the new moderator! So he was officially in the major leagues before the hit?? ` | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 894 Registered: 9-2003 |
Crazypalpig Congrats on being the new moderator! Thanks...the funny thing was, I was actually inquiring what is needed time-wise to be a moderator, and not necessarily becoming one, but Paul went ahead and made me one anyway. But it's all good. =) Now that I think about it, my situation would have made a good lateral puzzle...oh well! So he was officially in the major leagues before the hit?? Good question -- Yope! In other words, explore! | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2465 Registered: 2-2001 |
Time zones relevant? Daylight savings? Anything like that? Relevant where this takes place? The year it takes place? The team he's playing for? To clarify, he got a hit in a major league baseball game for a team which called him up from the minor league? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 903 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bodo Time zones relevant? No Daylight savings? No Anything like that? No, but good thinking. Relevant where this takes place? Well, technically speaking, yes -- the events described in this puzzle can only take place where major league baseball teams would play. But other than that, it is irrelevant -- so this puzzle would work equally well in (say) Boston or San Diego. The year it takes place? Like I previously mentioned, this event could have taken place only in a certain era, but I'm not sure exactly when that cutoff point would be. However, the events described in this puzzle took place during this year (i.e. in the 2008 MLB season). The team he's playing for? Irrelevant -- but for the record, the team he's playing for are the Baltimore Orioles. To clarify, he got a hit in a major league baseball game for a team which called him up from the minor league? Yes I'll pause to mention at this point that enough information has been revealed that a clever Google search would get you the entire story. Needless to say, this is cheating, so try to refrain from doing so unless absolutely positively necessary =). | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
New member Username: Gourami Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2008 |
Could this happen in any other sport with a minor/major league sort of set-up? Would people have called him a major league player a day before the hit? A day after? That day? Any waiting period relevant? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 914 Registered: 9-2003 |
Gourami Could this happen in any other sport with a minor/major league sort of set-up? Not that I know of -- I think this is specific to baseball. Would people have called him a major league player a day before the hit? Yope A day after? Yope That day? Yope Any waiting period relevant? YES, good question -- but be careful a potentially very big mislead! | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
New member Username: Gourami Post Number: 311 Registered: 2-2008 |
Was he within the waiting period at the time the hit was made? Was the waiting period over for him? Had it not yet begun for him? Did it not apply to him? Is the wait to get into the major leagues? To get a hit officially recorded? | ||
| Rcs (Rcs)
New member Username: Rcs Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2008 |
Anything to do with the fact that hits made during a suspended game aren't counted until the game is completed? Or that hits made in a game that's replayed because of rain aren't counted at all? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 924 Registered: 9-2003 |
Gourami Was he within the waiting period at the time the hit was made? No Was the waiting period over for him? Yes, but there's a bit of a FA here. Had it not yet begun for him? No Did it not apply to him? No Is the wait to get into the major leagues? No To get a hit officially recorded? No'ish Rcs Anything to do with the fact that hits made during a suspended game aren't counted until the game is completed? No, but this is very close! Good question. Or that hits made in a game that's replayed because of rain aren't counted at all? Not this rule, but good thinking. | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2474 Registered: 2-2001 |
Does he have to have played in a completed game to be officially in The Show? | ||
| Rcs (Rcs)
New member Username: Rcs Post Number: 127 Registered: 9-2008 |
Was the hit recorded in an exhibition game? Spring training? Postseason? All-star game? Something else other than a regular-season major-league game? Did the hit actually count toward his career statistics? Any specific stadium(s) relevant? Player's position relevant? Designated hitter rule relevant? How long before the player was called up to the major leagues was this hit made? Less than an hour? four hours? twelve hours? a day? two? three? a week? a month? longer? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 927 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bodo Does he have to have played in a completed game to be officially in The Show? No -- good question! Rcs Was the hit recorded in an exhibition game? Spring training? Postseason? All-star game? Something else other than a regular-season major-league game? The hit was made in a regular season game. A RBI single, like I wrote earlier. Did the hit actually count toward his career statistics? Yes Any specific stadium(s) relevant? No Player's position relevant? No Designated hitter rule relevant? No How long before the player was called up to the major leagues was this hit made? Less than an hour? four hours? twelve hours? a day? two? three? a week? a month? longer? There's a FA at work here... | ||
| Rcs (Rcs)
New member Username: Rcs Post Number: 168 Registered: 9-2008 |
Was the player never called up to the major leagues? Because he never played in the minors? Was he one of the handful of players who were drafted straight into the majors? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 929 Registered: 9-2003 |
Rcs Was the player never called up to the major leagues? No -- the player in question was indeed a minor league call-up to the majors. Because he never played in the minors? Was he one of the handful of players who were drafted straight into the majors? So the rest of the questions are N/A | ||
| Rcs (Rcs)
New member Username: Rcs Post Number: 206 Registered: 9-2008 |
Just to clarify, though; it wasn't the following situation: Player is drafted straight out of college (or wherever) into the majors, records a hit there, gets sent down to the minors, then later gets called back up (thus recording his first major league hit before being called up to the majors). Do I understand you right that this isn't the solution? (Sorry if I seem redundant; I just want to be thorough.) | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1128 Registered: 12-2004 |
So... 1) A first-year professional baseball player recorded an H. 2)One (1) occurred sometime before this first-year player was called up to the Major League Baseball. 3) The amount time that had passed between these two events cannot be expressed with words. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1129 Registered: 12-2004 |
Title = "Thus shall the last be first, and the first last"? Relevant? Or do you just like to impress us with foreign titles? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 934 Registered: 9-2003 |
Rcs Just to clarify, though; it wasn't the following situation: Player is drafted straight out of college (or wherever) into the majors, records a hit there, gets sent down to the minors, then later gets called back up (thus recording his first major league hit before being called up to the majors). Do I understand you right that this isn't the solution? (Sorry if I seem redundant; I just want to be thorough.) Yes, this is not the situation, but this is the type of thinking needed to solve this puzzle. Remember that I mentioned earlier that certain rules of Major League Baseball apply in this puzzle. Doctapeppa So... 1) A first-year professional baseball player recorded an H. Yes 2)One (1) occurred sometime before this first-year player was called up to the Major League Baseball. Yope...explore! 3) The amount time that had passed between these two events cannot be expressed with words. No Title = "Thus shall the last be first, and the first last"? Yes -- straight out of the Latin Vulgate. Bonus points for figuring this out. Relevant? As is the case with all my puzzles, the title is relevant. That being said, the degree of relevance in this particularly case is peripheral -- I would pursue some other avenues of inquiry of I were you. Or do you just like to impress us with foreign titles? No...using Latin titles is somewhat of an inside joke, especially among some of old regulars in the forum. =) Besides, I do use the occasional non-Latin title for my puzzles. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1310 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yes, I believe I remember being angered by your titles in years past... I wished Google had a Latin to English translator... | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1392 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hmmm.... Did (1) occur after he was called up to MLB? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 935 Registered: 9-2003 |
Doctapeppa Yes, I believe I remember being angered by your titles in years past... I wished Google had a Latin to English translator... I'm sorry if you are angered by my titles. However, usually a straight Google search without using the translator should bring you a web page with the translation already in it. Hmmm.... Did (1) occur after he was called up to MLB? Yes, but... BIG hint: (Because it's way past time to put this baby to bed) The words "before" and "after" can be used in several different context. Figure them out, and this puzzle practically solves itself.} | ||
| D_gordon (D_gordon)
New member Username: D_gordon Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did he get the hit, then the game was suspended before becoming official? Followed by him being dropped back down to the minor league? Then the game was finished at some point, while he was in the minor league, leading to his hit being recorded? Then he was called up to the major league? | ||
| D_gordon (D_gordon)
New member Username: D_gordon Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2008 |
Well, if I'm going to try for a $p0i13r, I should do it right. Was the game suspended, followed by the player being called up to the major leagues, followed by the game being resumed, followed by the player getting his first hit in the suspended game, which was recorded as part of the game -- which was dated from its original date, before the player was called up? | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member Username: Haenlomal Post Number: 937 Registered: 9-2003 |
D_gordon Did he get the hit, then the game was suspended before becoming official? Followed by him being dropped back down to the minor league? Then the game was finished at some point, while he was in the minor league, leading to his hit being recorded? Then he was called up to the major league? No to all, but... D_gordon, part deux Well, if I'm going to try for a $p0i13r, I should do it right. Was the game suspended, followed by the player being called up to the major leagues, followed by the game being resumed, followed by the player getting his first hit in the suspended game, which was recorded as part of the game -- which was dated from its original date, before the player was called up? ...this is exactly what happened. Well done. **************** SPOILER ********************** I'll let ESPN.com's Jayson Stark speak for himself: • Suspended Animation -- April 28 (with Part II on Aug. 26): Orioles 4, White Sox 3, in 14 innings (over 17 weeks). This wasn't the best game of the year, but it sure was the most complicated. It got weathered out April 28 in Chicago, then finished Aug. 26 in Baltimore. But officially, in baseball's technicality-obsessed eyes, it all happened in April. So that means: Orioles rookie Lou Montanez got the first hit of his career on April 28 -- even though he wasn't called up until Aug. 5. And he got it in Chicago, even though he has never played there. History will also tell us that Orioles pitcher Alberto Castillo won his first big league game on April 28, even though he didn't arrive in the majors until July 8. And Orioles reliever Rocky Cherry collected his first save 3½ months before his call-up, too. Junior Griffey walked, meaning he officially reached base for two teams in the same day. (He also singled for the Reds on April 28.) And because the grand finale was part of a "doubleheader" in Baltimore, the Orioles managed to occupy first and last place on the same day. By winning "Game 1," they moved into first on April 28. But by losing "Game 2," they were still right back in last place on Aug. 25. Try that on your Xbox sometime. The link to the original article may be found here. Thanks to all who played, and D_gordon for the finishing coup de grace! May you all be able to get a hit in the game of life in an equally timely manner... :D | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1549 Registered: 12-2004 |
So he didn't really record it earlier, it was recorded AS earlier? |
