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Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 322
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't turn your back. Use a coat.

To stave off the usual enquiries, this is not woubit's Christmas puzzle for 2008, which (unlike the Christmas decorations in every London shop) will not appear until December. It is, however, vaguely topical.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 191
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I turned my back, would it work as well?

If I used a coat, would it be preferable for me? For you? Anyone else?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1404
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should I not turn my back? Should I use a coat? Are turning my back and using my coat mutually exclusive? Would I be able to accomplish what I would accomplish by turning my back by using a coat?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 323
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I turned my back, would it work as well? it would work just as badly, I conjecture

If I used a coat, would it be preferable for me? yes, in certain circumstances that probably do not apply to you personally, though I have no way of knowing For you? no Anyone else? yes
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1405
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As I have said before, great minds think great thoughts alike.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 324
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should I not turn my back? it would make little difference in your case Should I use a coat? likewise Are turning my back and using my coat mutually exclusive? yes Would I be able to accomplish what I would accomplish by turning my back by using a coat? not on the evidence gathered thus far
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1406
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the puzzle statement have a specific intended audience? Or is it a universal truth? Could one use a sweater instead of a coat?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 325
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the puzzle statement have a specific intended audience? yes Or is it a universal truth? no Could one use a sweater instead of a coat? no
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1407
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title relevant? If so, in a way that could assist Doctapeppa in solving the puzzle? Or only in a cryptic way that is darkly humorous for you?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1408
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific audience of the puzzle statement an individual? A character whose identity we should ascertain? Or just anyone who finds him or herself in a particular situation, who has a certain profession, who is doing a certain action, or anything else like this?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 326
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title relevant? vaguely If so, in a way that could assist Doctapeppa in solving the puzzle? as the great Fats Waller used to say, one never knows, do one? Or only in a cryptic way that is darkly humorous for you? in "darkly humorous" you have hit upon a phrase that may be useful, but I would not spend too much time exploring the title, if I were you
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1409
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Turn your back =

to forsake?
to deny?
to rotate the rear of your body?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 327
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific audience of the puzzle statement an individual? no A character whose identity we should ascertain? the audience is a group of individuals whose identity you would do well to ascertain, or you will make little progress Or just anyone who finds him or herself in a particular situation, however, many individuals in the past have formed part of this group, as will many individuals in the future who has a certain profession, not this who is doing a certain action, but this or anything else like this? and this

To summarise: the puzzle statement "Don't turn your back - use a coat" is addressed as a piece of advice to people who wish to accomplish a certain goal. These people are not united by being members of the same profession.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1410
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coat = an outer garment warn on the upper body?
Would the target of the puzzle statement be able to use any other article of clothing?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 328
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Turn your back =

to forsake?
to deny?
to rotate the rear of your body? this one, or more specifically to turn your body through 180 degrees in the vertical plane
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 329
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coat = an outer garment warn on the upper body? yes
Would the target of the puzzle statement be able to use any other article of clothing? no
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1411
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these people wish to accomplish some kind of action? Break some kind of record? Persuade someone that letterboxing is better than cutting off the portion of the scene that would extend past the edge of the screen?


Could people from Norwegian-Americans named Muhammad try to accomplish a certain goal?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1412
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the people who want to accomplish a certain goal want to turn themselves toward something? Away from something?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 330
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these people wish to accomplish some kind of action? not all of them - their common cause is that some kind of action be accomplished Break some kind of record? no Persuade someone that letterboxing is better than cutting off the portion of the scene that would extend past the edge of the screen? whatever that is, it is not what they wish should be accomplished

Could people from Norwegian-Americans named Muhammad try to accomplish a certain goal? it is possible, though vanishingly unlikely, that a Norwegian-American named Muhammad should wish this goal to be accomplished
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 331
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the people who want to accomplish a certain goal want to turn themselves toward something? Away from something? neither
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1413
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would one person doing this action be sufficient for the group to reach their goal? Could someone inside the group accomplish the action? Outside the group?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1414
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any governments involved? Is politics relevant? Do these people want a man to walk on Mars? Could an animal perform the action that they want to be accomplished?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 192
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is temperature relevant? Colour?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1415
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the action something that could be performed instantaneously? Something that would take several minutes? Months? A year? Longer? Has this action never been performed before?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 332
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would one person doing this action be sufficient for the group to reach their goal? almost certainly not, although I can imagine circumstances in which it might be possible; however, on the occasion that inspired this puzzle, there were a great many coat-users involved Could someone inside the group accomplish the action? no - see below Outside the group? no, but you should view the situation as one in which there is a single group of people divided into one comparatively vast and one comparatively tiny sub-group

Are any governments involved? not yet, at any rate Is politics relevant? likewise Do these people want a man to walk on Mars? no Could an animal perform the action that they want to be accomplished? only a particular group of human animals could perform the desired accomplishment
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1417
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the coat-users wear their coats at any point? Would a London Fog work? Would a collective group be able to accomplish the action?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1418
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this sci-fi? Could this happen in real life? Is this based on a true story? FYOI? Are the laws of physics overly relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 333
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is temperature relevant? no Colour? yes

Is the action something that could be performed instantaneously? no Something that would take several minutes? this one Months? and none of the rest A year? Longer? Has this action never been performed before? no. I would leave you to work out what this means, but I am a kind-hearted woubit, so I will tell you that the action (that is, the accomplishment of the desired goal) has indeed been performed before, and counsel that in future you do not ask "yes-no questions" in the negative. The answers are bound to confuse you more than you are confused already.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1419
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course, because there is no way I would be able to understand that the fact that it is not the case that the action has never been performed before leaves only one other possibility...
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 334
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the coat-users wear their coats at any point? no - good question Would a London Fog work? no Would a collective group be able to accomplish the action? I need to be sure what your references to "the action" mean, so I will attempt what must surely be, in the history of the LTPF, the most immediate

*** RECAP ***

The advice "Don't turn your back - use a coat" is addressed to a group of people wishing for a certain outcome X.

There are a great many people desirous of outcome X, but whether or not X will actually happen is in the hands of a small number of people who form a sub-group of those present.

There have been many occasions in the past, and there will be many occasions in the future, to which the circumstances of this puzzle apply.

On at least one occasion, the tactic of using (but not wearing) a coat has proved successful in achieving outcome X; on no occasion has the tactic of turning one's back proved successful in achieving outcome X.


Is this sci-fi? no Could this happen in real life? it has - see above Is this based on a true story? yes FYOI? the incident on which the puzzle is based occurred in real life; the creation of a puzzle from that incident is the product of my own poor imagination Are the laws of physics overly relevant? they are not
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 335
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course, because there is no way I would be able to understand that the fact that it is not the case that the action has never been performed before leaves only one other possibility...

In English, it is possible to answer the question "Has this never happened before?" thus:

"Yes - it has never happened before"

or thus:

"No, it has never happened before".

It is well understood among native English speakers that these two answers have identical meanings.

But not only is this an international forum (so that, for example, a speaker of Norwegian or even American might consider a "no" answer to indicate that the event in question really has never happened before), it is also a forum with its own peculiar rules.

Strictly speaking, we use only "yes" or "no" to answer questions - we do not add riders such as "it has never happened before".

Within the rules, then, I could legitimately answer either "yes" or "no" and confuse at least someone, but that is anathema to the Code of the woubits. I do not seek to belittle your considerable acuity, merely to offer advice of a general nature.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1422
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed! Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation. That's what I always say. Perhaps I shall even phrase my questions as the following:

Is it the case that the use of a trench coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 337
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 2:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that the use of a trench coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? no, but not an unqualified "no"
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1424
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your last post (12:06 AM) I find to be quite hilarious. I don't know if it was intended as such, but this is an example of why you won that award a while back...

Is it the case that the use of a sport coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 338
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 5:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that the use of a sport coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? no - the coat in question is a specific kind of coat
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 194
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Santa Claus relevant?

Any disguise relevant?

Should the coat be used as a protection against something?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1427
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A technicolor dream coat?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 195
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Invisible cloak?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 339
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Santa Claus relevant? no - it is not yet December

Any disguise relevant? no

Should the coat be used as a protection against something? no - the coat is not actually worn

A technicolor dream coat? no

Invisible cloak? well, the coat in question cannot be seen, but it is not a coat that renders its wearer invisible
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 197
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the coat physically present when the people are supposed to "use" it?

Uniforms relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 340
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the coat physically present when the people are supposed to "use" it? no - good question

Uniforms relevant? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it only a reference to the coat which is used?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 341
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it only a reference to the coat which is used? very much so
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the coat only be worn by a specific group of people?

Is the purpose of the desired action to protect someone? something? oneself?

Coat-turning relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 342
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the coat only be worn by a specific group of people? yes

Is the purpose of the desired action to protect someone? something? oneself? no

Coat-turning relevant? no, but good thinking
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So this is some kind of transparent garment...

Is it made out of air?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 343
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So this is some kind of transparent garment... no, merely an absent garment from the scene in question

Is it made out of air? no
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if the garment that could be used by some unidentified person/people, without wearing it, was present in the location this puzzle takes place, it would be visible?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if the garment that could be used by some unidentified person/people, without wearing it, was present in the location this puzzle takes place, it would be visible? it would, but this is not quite the right way to think about the situation. You might try the usual avenues, such as finding out more about the people present and the situation they find themselves in. The mystery of the coat will then reveal itself in due course.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the term "turncoat" -- meaning traitor -- have any relevance?

How many people are involved -- 1, 2, 3, more?

Are time period and location relevant?

Season of the year relevant?

Are the people outdoors or indoors, and is this relevant?

Anyone getting injured, killed, inconvenienced, robbed, or arrested in this puzzle?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is its color relevant? Is it red and white? Is it a Santa coat?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 345
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the term "turncoat" -- meaning traitor -- have any relevance? no

How many people are involved -- 1, 2, 3, more? several thousand

Are time period and location relevant? not particularly, though the events of the puzzle could not have occurred before the late nineteenth century

Season of the year relevant? no

Are the people outdoors this one or indoors, and is this relevant? yes

Anyone getting injured, killed, inconvenienced, robbed, or arrested in this puzzle? no crimes are committed, but some inconvenience does occur

Is its color relevant? not particularly Is it red and white? no Is it a Santa coat? no
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Post Number: 250
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 5:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it santa? an elf? a reindeer? No, I'm kidding, I'm just being a pest =) Sorry, real question time:

Do these people span across multiple countries? continents?

Were they formed up under this common banner gradually by persuasion? or thrust in on their own accord by a triggering event (ie - as a picture comes up of a seal being clubbed to death, thousands, without central leadership, begin an outcry)? Do these people have a leadership or hierarchy?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any helping profession (such as doctors, firemen( involved?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 346
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these people span across multiple countries? continents? yes, but this may mislead - it is easier to think of them as all originating from the same country

Were they formed up under this common banner gradually by persuasion? not really or thrust in on their own accord by a triggering event (ie - as a picture comes up of a seal being clubbed to death, thousands, without central leadership, begin an outcry)? not this kind of thing Do these people have a leadership or hierarchy? no

Any helping profession (such as doctors, firemen) involved? no
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 472
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any kind of sport relevant?
or, maybe, bullfighting?

Does it have to be a specific kind of a coat? if so: would it be distinguishable by its colo(u)r? by its shape? by its material? by its owner? by the purpose for what it is intended?

Does the coat have to exist at all in order to be used for accomplishing X?

Would it be possible to re-use the same coat (or non-coat) in the same way at some later occasion?

Do these people strive for the goal X because it gives them
- money?
- health and long life?
- happiness?
- pleasure?
- safety?
- friends?
- satisfaction?
- fun?
- a chocolate cake?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1452
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who said anything about cake? There is no cake!
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 347
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any kind of sport relevant? yes
or, maybe, bullfighting? but not this one

Does it have to be a specific kind of a coat? yes if so: would it be distinguishable by its colo(u)r? no by its shape? not particularly by its material? not particularly by its owner? yes by the purpose for what it is intended? yes

Does the coat have to exist at all in order to be used for accomplishing X? no - although it did once have to exist

Would it be possible to re-use the same coat (or non-coat) in the same way at some later occasion? yes

Do these people strive for the goal X because it gives them
- money?
- health and long life?
- happiness? this one
- pleasure? and this one
- safety?
- friends?
- satisfaction? and this one
- fun?
- a chocolate cake?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1470
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that goal X is worldwide communism?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 348
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that goal X is worldwide communism? no
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is outcome X a state or condition?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1625
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to check: this (absent) coat is the type of coat worn by humans?

Or by animals? Such as a horse or greyhound? A coat of arms? Of paint? Of varnish?

Is television relevant?

If the hypothetical coat-users do not actually wear the coat, would it help us to determine the way in which they might use the coat?

In the hope of achieving happiness and pleasure, would they:

drape the coat over something?
write about the coat?
put the coat on a fire?
use a coat to shield themselves?
use a coat to shield something else?
tear the coat up in some way?
wave the coat at a bull?

Wormy's Random Guess of the Evening: are they motorists hoping to evade capture by speed cameras?

Finally, the happiness and pleasure they wish to attain: is this perhaps:

aesthetic pleasure?
gustatory pleasure?
sensual/sexual pleasure?
the joy of companionship/love?
satisfaction from achieving justice?
some sort of justice?
the sort of pleasure one gets from getting away with something naughty?
the pleasure of winning at a game or sport?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 349
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is outcome X a state or condition? yes. That is to say, it is a particular state of affairs.

Just to check: this (absent) coat is the type of coat worn by humans? yes

Or by animals? Such as a horse or greyhound? A coat of arms? Of paint? Of varnish? none of these

Is television relevant? no

If the hypothetical coat-users do not actually wear the coat, would it help us to determine the way in which they might use the coat? certainly

In the hope of achieving happiness and pleasure, would they:

drape the coat over something?
write about the coat?
put the coat on a fire?
use a coat to shield themselves?
use a coat to shield something else?
tear the coat up in some way?
wave the coat at a bull? none of these

Wormy's Random Guess of the Evening: are they motorists hoping to evade capture by speed cameras? no, but an interesting notion

Finally, the happiness and pleasure they wish to attain: is this perhaps:

aesthetic pleasure?
gustatory pleasure?
sensual/sexual pleasure?
the joy of companionship/love?
satisfaction from achieving justice?
some sort of justice?
the sort of pleasure one gets from getting away with something naughty?
the pleasure of winning at a game or sport? yope. None of the others.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 201
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cloak-and-sword relevant?

Do they use the imaginary coat to avoid/distract something?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1627
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is football relevant? Sunderland FC?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 350
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cloak-and-sword relevant? no

Do they use the imaginary coat to avoid/distract something? not really, but this is not far from the right forest

Is football relevant? yope Sunderland FC? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 202
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any ball game relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 351
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any ball game relevant? certainly
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1474
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Boccie? Cricket? Tennis? Canadian football? American football? El futbol? Soccer? Rugby? Lawn bowling? Badminton? (it's kind of like a ball)
Track and field?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 352
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Boccie? Cricket? Tennis? Canadian football? American football? El futbol? Soccer? Rugby? this one - now then... Lawn bowling? Badminton? (it's kind of like a ball)
Track and field?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 203
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do I need to know the basics of rugby to be able to solve this puzzle?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 353
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do I need to know the basics of rugby to be able to solve this puzzle? not in the least. But it might help if you knew - as you can easily ascertain, since googling is always permitted in woubit puzzles - the nations where rugby is considered a matter of life or death, and those where it is regarded as more important than that.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1584
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any relevant recent rule changes?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1585
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh and are England's hideous new jersey's relevant? If not england then Wales?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 354
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any relevant recent rule changes? no - the rules of rugby, then as now, are not relevant in the least. After all, would I lie to Alhucema?

Oh and are England's hideous new jersey's relevant? If not england then Wales? they are not, but a good piece of thinking
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with the Haka?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 355
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with the Haka? it does indeed - very good thinking
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 205
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After all, would I lie to Alhucema? How kind of you! :-)))

It is much more comfortable to wear a dress than perform funny dances?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 356
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is much more comfortable to wear a dress than perform funny dances? never having done either, I am afraid I would not know. But this is not what the puzzle is about.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1629
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the putative coat-users also the performers of the Haka? Or are they the NZ supporters? The opposing team? The supporters of the opposing team? The entire crowd? The entire population of NZ? Might a coat be used in teaching the Haka? Or in learning to perform it? Might a coat be used as a means of counteracting the intimidatory effects of the Haka?

Considering the title: is the Canadian RU team relevant? The Welsh RU team?

Ooops, I am assuming this about RU rather than RL: is this correct? Or would it apply to both forms of the game?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 357
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the putative coat-users also the performers of the Haka? no Or are they the NZ supporters? no The opposing team? yes - the small group The supporters of the opposing team? yes - the large group The entire crowd? no The entire population of NZ? no Might a coat be used in teaching the Haka? unlikely, but possible - not, however, relevant Or in learning to perform it? likewise Might a coat be used as a means of counteracting the intimidatory effects of the Haka? that is much more like the sort of thing...

Considering the title: is the Canadian RU team relevant? no The Welsh RU team? no

Ooops, I am assuming this about RU rather than RL: is this correct? Or would it apply to both forms of the game? chiefly to rugby union
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm thinking that you just lost me, and probably a couple other Americans who, like me, pay no attention to the eastern hemisphere. So something called "Haka" is relevant? And there is a large group? And a small group? And someone somewhere wants X? Fascism relevant? Would everyone be able to see this particular coat? Would non-colorblind people be able to see it? I know that you said that this coat "cannot be seen"... Is this only under the circumstances of the puzzle? Does this coat emit or reflect any other kind of electromagnetic radiation? Is it a vampire? Or am I just asking stupid questions?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the desired outcome to win the match?
Have there been examples where the opposing team turned their backs to the All Blacks as response to the Haka? and lost the match?
Could they have avoided losing the match with the help of a coat?
Is it one coat for the whole team? or one coat for each of them?
Are the owner(s) or previous owner(s) of the coat(s) relevant? Is it the Queen's coat?
Is the coat red and/or white?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 358
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm thinking that you just lost me, and probably a couple other Americans who, like me, pay no attention to the eastern hemisphere. as I have remarked, googling is permitted in all woubit puzzles, but a brief description follows So something called "Haka" is relevant? the Haka is a Maori war song traditionally performed by the New Zealand rugby union international side shortly before kick-off And there is a large group? there is - it consists of that portion of the crowd who support New Zealand's opponents And a small group? there is - it consists of the players who are New Zealand's opponents on the pitch And someone somewhere wants X? both the large group and the small group want the same thing, which is that their team should win and New Zealand, therefore, should lose Fascism relevant? no Would everyone be able to see this particular coat? no particular coat is actually present, so no one would be able to see it Would non-colorblind people be able to see it? no I know that you said that this coat "cannot be seen"... Is this only under the circumstances of the puzzle? the coat in question can no longer be seen anywhere at all Does this coat emit or reflect any other kind of electromagnetic radiation? no Is it a vampire? no Or am I just asking stupid questions? not paricularly, but you seem on occasion to forget that what you know about cake may also be true of this coat - it is not there
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 359
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the desired outcome to win the match? very much so
Have there been examples where the opposing team turned their backs to the All Blacks as response to the Haka? and lost the match? certainly there have - well done
Could they have avoided losing the match with the help of a coat? the evidence of at least one occasion supports this view, yes
Is it one coat for the whole team? or one coat for each of them? it is one and the same coat for all of them - players and supporters alike
Are the owner(s) or previous owner(s) of the coat(s) relevant? yes Is it the Queen's coat? no
Is the coat red and/or white? this is not actually recorded, but one imagines that it was probably either brown or grey. A coat-coloured sort of coat, one might say.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1488
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that this coat has been completely removed from the time-space continuum? Or just that the atoms that made up the coat underwent some sort of physical/chemical reaction that would result in the particular coat that is relevant to the puzzle no longer in existence? In using the coat, would one talk about it? Sing a song about it? Use it like a mnemonic device to remember some specific information that would be useful to spectators that don't like the New Zealand rugby union international side? Is making a reference to the coat anything like when a certain group of feudal warriors say, "Ni!"? Is it like how the Prussians said, "Remember thee, la mode!" when they ordered anything with ice cream? Is any other Maori war song relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 360
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the case that this coat has been completely removed from the time-space continuum? no Or just that the atoms that made up the coat underwent some sort of physical/chemical reaction that would result in the particular coat that is relevant to the puzzle no longer in existence? no In using the coat, would one talk about it? Sing a song about it? this one - good question Use it like a mnemonic device to remember some specific information that would be useful to spectators that don't like the New Zealand rugby union international side? Is making a reference to the coat anything like when a certain group of feudal warriors say, "Ni!"? not altogether unlike this, for very vague values indeed of "feudal" Is it like how the Prussians said, "Remember thee, la mode!" when they ordered anything with ice cream? no Is any other Maori war song relevant? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the instance where use of a coat could have helped avoid defeat was this a recent match? Is the recent match between Munster and the All Blacks relevant? 4 of the munster players were Kiwis and joined in the Haka? I only ask because Munster wear red and as an Irishman they are about the only source of national pride at the moment.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 361
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the instance where use of a coat could have helped avoid defeat was this a recent match? there may be a little confusion here, sorry. The notion is that the use of a coat (now known to involve singing about the coat) actually did help a particular team (as yet unknown) to defeat the All Blacks on an occasion that was not recent, and the inference is that it might do so again. Is the recent match between Munster and the All Blacks relevant? no, nor could it have been - the team that used a coat to defeat the All Blacks was not Irish 4 of the Munster players were Kiwis and joined in the Haka? I only ask because Munster wear red and as an Irishman they are about the only source of national pride at the moment. Oh, I don't know. You've got a pretty good bridge team.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1589
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok so there was an not recent instance of a team and it's supporters singing a song about a coat (or one that contained a reference to a coat) while the Kiwis were performing the Haka and this was seen to have been of assistance to them in winning the match. Is that correct?

Were the New Zealand players offended by the song? frightened by it? distracted off by it? Did it prevent them completing the Haka? or otherwise affect their pre match routine? Did their opposition prey on a Maori superstition? Is the song particularly well known thoughout the world or primarily in one country?

Is this a club, provincial or internation team that beat them? Southern or northern hemisphere? Do they in fact wear Red & White?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 362
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok so there was a not-recent instance of a team and its supporters singing a song about a coat (or one that contained a reference to a coat) while the Kiwis were performing the Haka and this was seen to have been of assistance to them in winning the match. Is that correct? couldn't have put it better myself

Were the New Zealand players offended by the song? not particularly - the purpose was not so much to offend the All Blacks as to give heart to their opponents frightened by it? no - it is not an especially frightening song distracted off by it? no Did it prevent them completing the Haka? no or otherwise affect their pre match routine? no Did their opposition prey on a Maori superstition? no Is the song particularly well known thoughout the world or primarily in one country? the song is known the world over, but it is particularly associated with one country

Is this a club, provincial or international this one team that beat them? Southern this one or northern hemisphere? Do they in fact wear Red & White? they do not
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Waltzing Matilda" relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 363
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Waltzing Matilda" relevant? very much so
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the Australian Team and their supporters sang Waltzing Matilda during the Haka and this helped in their victory .. yes?

Can't recall mention of a coat in the song so did they change the words in any way? Unless it's a wooly coat from a Jumbuck which is a sheep i believe? Anything to with sheep and their prevelance in New Zealand?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it December yet?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 364
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the Australian Team and their supporters sang Waltzing Matilda during the Haka and this helped in their victory .. yes? yes, indeed

Can't recall mention of a coat in the song quaerendo invenientis so did they change the words in any way? no Unless it's a wooly coat from a Jumbuck which is a sheep i believe? a jumbuck is indeed a sheep, and... Anything to with sheep and their prevelance in New Zealand? no

Is it December yet? it is, and the woubit Christmas puzzle for 2008 will appear shortly
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

<piece_of_useless_knowledge>
The term Waltzing Matilda refers to a large bag in which tramps and wandering people carried their belongings. Sometimes instead of the bag a blanket or a coat was used; during day for carrying things, and during night to shelter oneself from the cold. So, Waltzing Matilda itself might refer to a coat.
The origins of the term Waltzing Matilda itself are unclear. Some claim the expression has been coined by immigrants from Germany -- this relies mainly on the connotation Walz, auf der Walz sein (= to travel around, to wander, said, for instance, about journeymen). On the other hand, Matilda is not a very typical German name.
</piece_of_useless_knowledge>

Is the song Waltzing Matilda the coat that was used here?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1592
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Determined not to look up your latin phrase but I think it means "have a closer look"

Ok some q's..

Are sheep relevant? Rucksacks or anything similar? Troopers? Drowning? Eric Bogle? in case you think I googled this, my party piece at inevitable Irish sing songs is "the band played waltzing matilda" which i learned from my mother when I was just 7 years of age. I still haven't heard or sang a better anti war song

Meanwhile back at the puzzle.

If the Aussies sang this each time they played teh Kiwis would they on each occasion improve their chances or were the circumstances of this particular match special?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 365
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The term Waltzing Matilda refers to a large bag in which tramps and wandering people carried their belongings. Sometimes instead of the bag a blanket or a coat was used; during day for carrying things, and during night to shelter oneself from the cold. So, Waltzing Matilda itself might refer to a coat.
The origins of the term Waltzing Matilda itself are unclear. Some claim the expression has been coined by immigrants from Germany -- this relies mainly on the connotation Walz, auf der Walz sein (= to travel around, to wander, said, for instance, about journeymen). On the other hand, Matilda is not a very typical German name.

Is the song Waltzing Matilda the coat that was used here?

close enough.

***** SPOILER *****

The first New Zealand rugby union team to visit Australia in 1884 performed a Haka (a Maori war dance accompanied by a menacing song) before each of its matches.

Since then, the Haka has been part of All Black tradition, performed before every international fixture. The All Blacks (the New Zealand playing uniform is an all black strip) are the most successful rugby team of all time, and opponents have attempted various ways to counter the psychological effect of the Haka for over a century.

Some of these have met with little success. In 1996, the Australians turned their backs on their mighty opponents and carried out a warm-up drill while the Haka was going on. They lost by a considerable margin.

In 1999, the Wallabies (the name for the Australian rugby team) came up with a different ploy. No sooner had the Haka ended than the players and most of the 107,000 strong crowd lifted their voices in a spirited rendition of the unofficial National Anthem of Australia, the song Waltzing Matilda.

As Sundowner says, Waltzing Matilda is not about a waltz, nor about a woman named Matilda. It concerns a jolly swagman (an itinerant farm labourer) who trudged from town to town and farm to farm across the Outback looking for work. He carried on his back all his worldly belongings, wrapped in a blanket or a greatcoat.

Although it is commonly believed that the early Australian settlers were all British convicts, many were in fact Germans, among them several ex-soldiers seeking their fortune in a far-off land. Infantrymen often gave a female name to the covering that kept them warm at night, and Matilda was a name used for their coats by these Teutonic swagmen as they went auf der Walz.

Australia beat New Zealand 28-7, a record humbling for the proud All Blacks. So, if you find yourself chosen to play for your country at rugby against New Zealand, and you want to defeat the Haka, don't turn your back. Use a coat.

Well done everyone. The Christmas puzzle will, as I say, be with you soon.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 366
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Determined not to look up your latin phrase but I think it means "have a closer look" apologies, Peter - you were posting while I was typing. "Quaerendo invenientis" is usually translated "Seek and [literally: by seeking] you shall find".

Ok some q's.. dealt with above
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Username: Doctapeppa

Post Number: 1501
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That was going to be my next guess.
Slameye (Slameye)
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Username: Slameye

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 7:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I liked the puzzle. Nice twist with the "coat", and educational as well.
Thanks.
Peter365 (Peter365)
New member
Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1593
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice Puzzle Woubit. Sports puzzles always welcome and as i'm sure your Christmas one will be.

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