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D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 147
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I don't remember being downgraded to regional service," he said. "It's the law," was the answer.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 264
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a soldier? Policeman? State employee?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 154
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a soldier? Policeman? State employee? None of these.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 267
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clergyman? Was he a member of a hierarchical organisation? Was he downgraded in a hierarchy?
The law - is it meant as a national law? International? Or just a local/professional rule?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 156
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Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clergyman? Was he a member of a hierarchical organisation? Was he downgraded in a hierarchy?
The law - is it meant as a national law? International? Or just a local/professional rule?

No to all.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 269
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he actually downgraded, then?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he actually downgraded, then? "He" wasn't.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a stuck up rich brat?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 273
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Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he H? A?M?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 163
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Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a stuck up rich brat? Irrelevant.

Is he H? A?M? All, though gender isn't really relevant.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 277
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was someone else than "he" downgraded?

Downgraded - at work? Sport? Leisure activity? Secret organisation? Only figuratively?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 175
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was someone else than "he" downgraded? Something else was.

Downgraded - at work? This is closest. Sport? Leisure activity? Secret organisation? Only figuratively?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 7
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Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

pay?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 176
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Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

pay? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 288
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Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it is not "I do not remember ME being downgraded.." but rather "I do not remember IT being downgraded"?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 180
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Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it is not "I do not remember ME being downgraded.." but rather "I do not remember IT being downgraded"? That is the correct sense, yes. I didn't intend that as tricky phrasing, though.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 308
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Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the downgraded "it" a tangible object? Was it "downgraded" in the sense that it had previously served a purpose? at a higher level than that it was downgraded to?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the downgraded "it" a tangible object? Yes. Was it "downgraded" in the sense that it had previously served a purpose? Yes. at a higher level than that it was downgraded to? Yes.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 234
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Posted on Monday, January 19, 2009 - 7:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, this has been quiet for a couple weeks, so I'll post a recap and a hint.

Recap: Something was downgraded from a higher level of service to some purpose to a lower level. This lower level might reasonably be called "regional service." This thing is related to his work. He is a human adult male, though gender isn't really relevant.

Hint: Explore the meanings of some of the words in the puzzle statement.
Rcs (Rcs)
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Post Number: 339
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Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the law a scientific law? Does the thing that was downgraded use electricity?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 238
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Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the law a scientific law? Yes. Does the thing that was downgraded use electricity? Yes.
Rcs (Rcs)
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Post Number: 341
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Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this scientific law known before 1900? before 1950? after 1950?

Was the law the reason the thing got downgraded? The reason the narrator doesn't remember the thing being downgraded? Something else?

Does "regional service" refer to a geographic region? Some other region? Any particular geographic locations relevant? If a region is involved, is it about the size of the US? Texas? Los Angeles? An office? A desk? A fly? An atom?

Could the thing ever be returned to the higher level of service again?

Is the man's profession relevant? If so, insert LTPF list of professional fields.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 244
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this scientific law known before 1900? This one. before 1950? after 1950?

Was the law the reason the thing got downgraded? Yope. The reason the narrator doesn't remember the thing being downgraded? No. Something else? Yes, explore.

Does "regional service" refer to a geographic region? Yes. Some other region? Any particular geographic locations relevant? Yes, but it could have been some other location. If a region is involved, is it about the size of the US? Not this big, but... Texas? Somewhat bigger than this one. Los Angeles? An office? A desk? A fly? An atom?

Could the thing ever be returned to the higher level of service again? Yes.

Is the man's profession relevant? If so, insert LTPF list of professional fields. I don't remember the list...Information Technology.
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 209
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A computer? Is the law gravity?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 246
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Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A computer? What about it? Is the law gravity? No.
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a computer the item that was "downgraded"?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 263
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a computer the item that was "downgraded"? Yope.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1873
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Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Per my offer, here is the question for your post 265:
Is it relevant who said/thought/transmitted/wrote/conveyed the answer, "It's the law"?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 271
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant who said/thought/transmitted/wrote/conveyed the answer, "It's the law"? No.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1882
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Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 5:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Per my offer, here is the question for your post 272:
Was the object of the "downgrading" some type of machine? An electronic apparatus of sorts? A NES?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 277
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Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 2:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Per my offer, here is the question for your post 272:
Was the object of the "downgrading" some type of machine? Yope. An electronic apparatus of sorts? Yesish. A NES? No.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1887
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Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it some sort of network, or some type of electronic or communications infrastructure? Or, perhaps, an AI designed to follow arbitrary customs rules regarding passengers and their luggage?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 278
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Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 5:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it some sort of network, or some type of electronic or communications infrastructure? Yes. Or, perhaps, an AI designed to follow arbitrary customs rules regarding passengers and their luggage? No.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1889
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Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the following elements of the setting of this puzzle relevant:

Time of day?
Day of week?
Time of year?
Year?
The current state of the world?
Geographic location?
Type of location?
Inside/Outside?
Temperature?
Wind speed/direction?
Holidays?

Basics:

Is this puzzle...

Based on a true story?
Fictional?
Plausible?
Theoretically possible, though unlikely?
Impossible/Sci-Fi-esque?
Is the idea derived from a work of literature/movie/TV show?
FYOI?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 280
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the following elements of the setting of this puzzle relevant:

Time of day?
Day of week?
Time of year?No to these.
Year? It couldn't have happened before the 1980s or so, but beyond that not really.
The current state of the world? Probably, for SVVs of "state of the world," but you'd have to get really vague.
Geographic location? No.
Type of location? Noish -- it could easily have happened in a different kind of location. No to rest.
Inside/Outside?
Temperature?
Wind speed/direction?
Holidays?

Basics:

Is this puzzle...

Based on a true story? This one.
Fictional?
Plausible? Yes. No to rest.
Theoretically possible, though unlikely?
Impossible/Sci-Fi-esque?
Is the idea derived from a work of literature/movie/TV show?
FYOI?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 2030
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Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a computer network?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a computer network? Yes.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Answer the following question with the opposite of the answer that you would answer.
Can you give me a hint?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 366
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Answer the following question with the opposite of the answer that you would answer.
Can you give me a hint? No. (I took "would answer" to mean "would answer if Doctapeppa didn't ask questions in such a silly form.")

Hint: Think about what "regional service" might mean.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it mean that the computer network serves computers(?) or customers (?) or robots (?) or Clifford the Big Red Dog (?) or some kind of electronic devices (?) over a geographic region? (Siberia, perhaps?) (Or maybe Darfur?)
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 370
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it mean that the computer network serves computers(?) This one. or customers (?) or robots (?) or Clifford the Big Red Dog (?) or some kind of electronic devices (?) over a geographic region? This as well. (Siberia, perhaps?) (Or maybe Darfur?) But neither of these.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the network previously serve the computers entire country (?) or world (?) previously? Did something change such that continuing to provide service beyond a regional scope would violate (some random law of time/space)?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the network previously serve the computers entire country (?) or world (?) This one. previously? Did something change such that continuing to provide service beyond a regional scope would violate (some random law of time/space)? Yes.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...
The law of conservation of something?
The 300 000 km/s universal speed limit?
A physical law(?) pertaining to gravity(?), electromagnetism(?), the strong force(?), or the weak force(?)?
A biological law(?) pertaining to genetics?
A chemical law(?) pertaining to matter(?) or energy(?)?
Something that I've forgotten?
Something that I've remembered, but I have some kind of false assumption?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 375
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Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 3:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...
The law of conservation of something?
The 300 000 km/s universal speed limit? This one.
A physical law(?) pertaining to gravity(?), electromagnetism(?), the strong force(?), or the weak force(?)?
A biological law(?) pertaining to genetics?
A chemical law(?) pertaining to matter(?) or energy(?)?
Something that I've forgotten?
Something that I've remembered, but I have some kind of false assumption?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. I was just making stuff up there.

Is spending all night trying to revert Wikipedia vandalism just to wind up sending notification messages to the wrong IP because someone happened to revert the edit just as our hero happened to be doing so, and in the course of such actually reverting the revert of the edit, causing the vandalism to reappear and warning the person who removed it to not vandalize the project and then trying to retrace steps of various things that worked so well just to find some people trying to act all cool and stuff by adding links to sites in foreign languages, not signing comments on talk pages, inserting copyrighted information, etc. all in spite of his or her efforts to direct such users to documentation that simply states the five pillars that represent the core policies of Wikipedia, along with annotated messages on the talk page with links to exactly what part of said articles violate exactly what part of the aforementioned guidelines relevant?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is spending all night trying to revert Wikipedia vandalism just to wind up sending notification messages to the wrong IP because someone happened to revert the edit just as our hero happened to be doing so, and in the course of such actually reverting the revert of the edit, causing the vandalism to reappear and warning the person who removed it to not vandalize the project and then trying to retrace steps of various things that worked so well just to find some people trying to act all cool and stuff by adding links to sites in foreign languages, not signing comments on talk pages, inserting copyrighted information, etc. all in spite of his or her efforts to direct such users to documentation that simply states the five pillars that represent the core policies of Wikipedia, along with annotated messages on the talk page with links to exactly what part of said articles violate exactly what part of the aforementioned guidelines relevant? Shockingly, no.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Somehow, I knew I wasn't going to "get lucky" twice. If you know what I mean.

Anything to do with wires, cables, antennae, satellites, fiber optics, cabals, light amplification by submitted emissionS of radiation, narrowband, broadband, Internet, home networking, company networking, ISPs, URLs, IPs, the WWW, Uncyclopedia, the Knights Who Say Ni, photography, electrons, protons, neutrons, positrons, miscellaneous atomic particles to which I haven't had the opportunity to be exposed, gondolas, Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz y Picasso, tides, ice, dead men, elevators, pulleys, levers, inclined planes, snakes, plains, sonar, Radar Love, Golden Earrings, eight maids a-milkin', Vancouver, British Columbia, Swahili, Braille, Morse code, phobias, impairment of one of the senses, midgets, sword swallowers, despotic leaders, the People's Republic of China, Patrick Henry, the French Revolution, Dikembe Mutombo Mpolondo Mukamba Jean-Jacques Wamutombo, television, radio, postal services, the Great Depression, Bill Gates, David Letterman, and/or the Democratic Republic of the Congo (which, during my last dictatorship there, was, quite ironically, even more conservative than the Republican Republic of the Congo)?
Just a reminder, the above is one question, so I only want ONE yes or no.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I can hear your complaints now. No, I am not fishing for bait. I have full theories behind each of the things I have mentioned.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 381
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Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with wires, cables, antennae, satellites, fiber optics, cabals, light amplification by submitted emissionS of radiation, narrowband, broadband, Internet, home networking, company networking, ISPs, URLs, IPs, the WWW, Uncyclopedia, the Knights Who Say Ni, photography, electrons, protons, neutrons, positrons, miscellaneous atomic particles to which I haven't had the opportunity to be exposed, gondolas, Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz y Picasso, tides, ice, dead men, elevators, pulleys, levers, inclined planes, snakes, plains, sonar, Radar Love, Golden Earrings, eight maids a-milkin', Vancouver, British Columbia, Swahili, Braille, Morse code, phobias, impairment of one of the senses, midgets, sword swallowers, despotic leaders, the People's Republic of China, Patrick Henry, the French Revolution, Dikembe Mutombo Mpolondo Mukamba Jean-Jacques Wamutombo, television, radio, postal services, the Great Depression, Bill Gates, David Letterman, and/or the Democratic Republic of the Congo (which, during my last dictatorship there, was, quite ironically, even more conservative than the Republican Republic of the Congo)?
Just a reminder, the above is one question, so I only want ONE yes or no. Very well then. Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "he" (May we call him Jim?) a user of this service? Is his job relevant? His location? The period of time during which he said it?

Is space travel (contacting a probe, for example) relevant?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 382
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Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "he" (May we call him Jim?) a user of this service? Yes. Is his job relevant? Yes. His location? There are some places in which it could not have happened, but the specific location is not that relevant. The period of time during which he said it? Not very, beyond the fact that it couldn't have happened before the mid-1980s or so.

Is space travel (contacting a probe, for example) relevant? No.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything in my post 2170 after "Picasso" relevant?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Oh, and is the service something Trevor might use to access the LTPF from his iPhone while traveling through Pennsylvania?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, March 13, 2009 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything in my post 2170 after "Picasso" relevant? No.

Oh, and is the service something Trevor might use to access the LTPF from his iPhone while traveling through Pennsylvania? No.
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the speed of light is relevant? Does the speed of light place some sort of limit on how fast some particular task could be done? Was the change that happened some sort of increase in the speed at which this task had to be done, and consequently the area of coverage had to be reduced? Any of this relevant or OTRT?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the speed of light is relevant? Yes. Does the speed of light place some sort of limit on how fast some particular task could be done? Yes. Was the change that happened some sort of increase in the speed at which this task had to be done, Yes. and consequently the area of coverage had to be reduced? Yesish. Any of this relevant or OTRT? Yes.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 3:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with Doctapeppa having to have the bottommost post in the Chatroom, but the rate that he would have to post increased when Bolapara challenged him to a rapid-fire posting duel, which resulted in him having to change his goal from having the bottommost post out of the entire LTPF to having the bottommost post out of the LTPF members who live in south-eastern states and who are opposed to popularity contests?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Anything to do with Doctapeppa having to have the bottommost post in the Chatroom, but the rate that he would have to post increased when Bolapara challenged him to a rapid-fire posting duel, which resulted in him having to change his goal from having the bottommost post out of the entire LTPF to having the bottommost post out of the LTPF members who live in south-eastern states and who are opposed to popularity contests? Nothing whatsoever.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Using the internet over fibre optics or optical processors relevant?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Using the internet over fibre optics or optical processors relevant? No.
Hietek (Hietek)
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Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a true a story or fiction?

Is the thing being downgraded just one component part of a machine?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Is this a true a story or fiction? True story.

Is the thing being downgraded just one component part of a machine? "Component part" isn't really the word for it.
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with cell phones? GPS transceivers? Any other device that has to communicate with a satellite?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Anything to do with cell phones? GPS transceivers? Any other device that has to communicate with a satellite? None of these.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Albatross?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Albatross? Not relevant.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Ducks?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Ducks? Also not relevant.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The speed of light ... means that a computer of some sort cannot operate as fast as they would like it to? A network? Is the network being expanded? So that if it was operated at the highest possible speed, the service would degrade because there were just too many terminals? So they're downgrading it to make the regions more efficient? Is this service being extended to other regions? Do the regions have regular communication with each other?

Are the computers brains?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The speed of light ... means that a computer of some sort cannot operate as fast as they would like it to? Yes, for svv of "operate." A network? Yes. Is the network being expanded? No. So that if it was operated at the highest possible speed, the service would degrade because there were just too many terminals? No. So they're downgrading it to make the regions more efficient? No. Is this service being extended to other regions? It had been, previously. Do the regions have regular communication with each other? Yes.

Are the computers brains? No.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Operate = physically move? Transmit information? Images? Sound? Text? Be used to do mathematical functions? Other?

Computer = PC? Laptop? Handheld? Mainframe? Minicomputer? Supercomputer? Military? Civilian?

Does the person being downgraded (Jim) have to move somewhere? Change computers? Is he a computer operator? A supervisor? Is it just him, or a larger group of people, that are being downgraded?

Is the person telling him about his downgrading his supervisor? Someone else connected with his job?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Operate = physically move? Transmit information? This one. Images? Sound? Text? Be used to do mathematical functions? Other?

Computer = PC?This one. Laptop? Handheld? Mainframe? Minicomputer? Supercomputer? Military? Civilian? And this one.

Does the person being downgraded (Jim) have to move somewhere? No. Change computers? No. Is he a computer operator? A supervisor? This one. Is it just him, or a larger group of people This one., that are being downgraded?

Is the person telling him about his downgrading his supervisor? Someone else connected with his job? This one.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this relate to the growth of the internet?

If so, does it relate to:
- Expansion beyond original capabilities?
- The requirement for more IP addresses?
- New IP addressing schemes?
- Time delays and latency related to increasing numbers of IP addresses?
- Latency in general?
- Latency related to increasing number of router hops?
- The fault tolerance of TCP/IP?
- The nondeterministic nature of packet routing methods?

If not yes to all of the above, which is most relavent?

Does regional service refer to a subset of the original whole, sized such that the subset can be accommodated by capabilities that were previously adequete to service the original whole?

Is he part of a commitee that governs internet specifications? Something like this?

If you answer no to all of these, I will have just performed delicate tree surgery on the wrong tree.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And anudder question -- is his not remembering the downgrade relavent?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this relate to the growth of the internet? No.

If so, does it relate to:
- Expansion beyond original capabilities?
- The requirement for more IP addresses?
- New IP addressing schemes?
- Time delays and latency related to increasing numbers of IP addresses?
- Latency in general? Yesish.
- Latency related to increasing number of router hops?
- The fault tolerance of TCP/IP?
- The nondeterministic nature of packet routing methods? No to rest.

If not yes to all of the above, which is most relavent?

Does regional service refer to a subset of the original whole, sized such that the subset can be accommodated by capabilities that were previously adequete to service the original whole? Yes.

Is he part of a commitee that governs internet specifications? Something like this? No.

If you answer no to all of these, I will have just performed delicate tree surgery on the wrong tree.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Grand Funk Railroad an American band?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Grand Funk Railroad an American band? Irrelevant.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Computer network, but not the internet.
Is it a network of PC's (where the function of the PC is a personal productivity workstation)? Or does the PC perform some other function?

Besides computers, and computer related peripherals, are there other electronic devices on the network?

Is it a digital network?

Is it a communications network?

Cable TV network?

Television network?

Radio network?

Cellphone network?

Telephone network of some type?

Is the network primarily used by consumers? Businesses? Academia? Government? Military?

Is the network in use today? ARPANet?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Computer network, but not the internet. I didn't say that.

Is it a network of PC's (where the function of the PC is a personal productivity workstation)? Yes. Or does the PC perform some other function? Yes.

Besides computers, and computer related peripherals, are there other electronic devices on the network? No.

Is it a digital network? Yes.

Is it a communications network? Yes.

Cable TV network? No.

Television network? No.

Radio network? No.

Cellphone network? No.

Telephone network of some type? No.

Is the network primarily used by consumers? Businesses? Academia? This is the relevant group. Government? Military?

Is the network in use today? Yes. ARPANet? But no.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, I read too much into your response about the growth of the internet. Does this puzzle involve the internet?

If yes, does the service run over the internet? Any other networks involved?

Is the knowledge required to solve this puzzle widely known by the general public? Or does it require specific, somewhat parochial knowledge?

Does it relate to computer internetworking and infrastructure in general? For example, a knowledge of DNS or networking protocols?

Or does it relate to service in use by a specific subset of internet connected users? For example, you said yes to academia -- I'm thinking of a library catalogue system that interconnects universities over the internet to allow them to requests books from each other around the world. Would this be an example of the type of service in question?

If no to both of the above, which one is closest?

I am not in academia -- is it likely that I will be familiar with this service?

Peeling the academic onion, which of the following segments of academia are relevant? Students, teachers, administrators, alumni, donors? K-12, university? Does it relate to instruction of students, research, fund raising, publishing, sports, financial aid?

Going back to computers, which of the following are most relevant to this discussion:
- The physical network, including the copper wires, fiber optic cabling, or wireless infrastructure (layers 1 & 2)
- The network communications layer
- Server and storage infrastructure
- Infrastructure layer software, including operating systems, database engines and presentation layer services
- Services software, such as e-mail systems, file management systems and the like
- Application software and specific programs in use by end-users

Duh, should have asked this question first -- is the service primarily used by systems administrators? End computer users?

Finally, does the service relate to security? Systems management? Information management?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't stop. Does "regional" relate to geography? Organizational hierarchy?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, I read too much into your response about the growth of the internet. Does this puzzle involve the internet? Yes.

If yes, does the service run over the internet? Yes. Any other networks involved? Yes.

Is the knowledge required to solve this puzzle widely known by the general public? Or does it require specific, somewhat parochial knowledge? There is some slightly specialized knowledge that would help, but I could see the puzzle being solved without it.

Does it relate to computer internetworking and infrastructure in general? For example, a knowledge of DNS or networking protocols? No.

Or does it relate to service in use by a specific subset of internet connected users? For example, you said yes to academia -- I'm thinking of a library catalogue system that interconnects universities over the internet to allow them to requests books from each other around the world. Would this be an example of the type of service in question? No, and my statement that academia was the relevant group was probably too strong -- this did happen in an academic setting, but it could have happened elsewhere. Sorry if this misled.

If no to both of the above, which one is closest? The Internet in general is the right forest to work on.

I am not in academia -- is it likely that I will be familiar with this service? Yes.

Peeling the academic onion, which of the following segments of academia are relevant? Students, teachers, administratorsThis one., alumni, donors? K-12, university This one. ? Does it relate to instruction of students, research And this one., fund raising, publishing, sports, financial aid?

Going back to computers, which of the following are most relevant to this discussion:
- The physical network, including the copper wires, fiber optic cabling, or wireless infrastructure (layers 1 & 2) Thisish.
- The network communications layer
- Server and storage infrastructure
- Infrastructure layer software, including operating systems, database engines and presentation layer services Thisish.
- Services software, such as e-mail systems, file management systems and the like This.
- Application software and specific programs in use by end-users

Duh, should have asked this question first -- is the service primarily used by systems administrators? End computer users? Both.

Finally, does the service relate to security? Systems management? Information management? No to all.

I can't stop. Does "regional" relate to geography? This one. Organizational hierarchy?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this relate to change of network topologies? For example, a conversion from token-ring to ethernet? Or a change of network operating systems? For example, a conversion from Novell Netware or Banyan Vines to Microsoft NT?

Are the particular vendors, manufacturers, or brand names of the computing elements relavent? For example, in the previous paragraph, I mentioned Microsoft, Banyan and Novell? Are these relevant?

How about IBM, Cisco, or Linux? If no to all, is there a particular brand name I need to discover but just haven't mentioned it?

Are we concerned primarily with hardware components? Or software components?

You had answered "this" to services software. Is there one particular service we are concerned with? Is it an e-mail system? A file management system? Directory services and user authentication system?

Does this relate to the migration from character based to graphical based user interfaces?

Does this relate to the migration from single threaded to multiple threaded applications?

Does this relate to the evolution of the World Wide Web that runs over the internet?

Stepping back to the latency question, does the service involve communications across satellite links?

Assumption check -- please confirm accuracy of the following: a particular computer network-based system is in use by multiple users and administrators. This system provides the "service" referred to in the puzzle statement. The functioning of the system is constrained by the "law" of speed of light or electomagnetic transmission. Due to some reason to be discovered, the system changes or evolves such that the service area must be reduced geographically to a "regional" level so that its limitations relative to the speed of light can be accommodated. That he did not "remember" being downgraded is not relevant. Is this all correct?

Following up on the last statement, is it relevant that someone did not remember being downgraded? Was there a related incident?

Were the service not to have been reduced to regional level, what would the impact have been -- Could not function? Unacceptably slow performance? Difficult to manage? Loss of data?

Is the use of human spoken languages relevant?

Are optics involved? Or are we only concerned with the transmission of electrical signals?

Now focusing on the change that occurred that necessitated the downgrade to regional service -- was the change an increased number of users? Number of elements in the system? Higher data transmission requirements? Larger file sizes?

Was the change related to a change in technology standards, e.g., new operating system or program version? Was it related to a change in user requirements, e.g., the need to accomodate low latency real-time functions such as voice and video versus the transmission of text?

Does the change relate to the conversion from analog to digital technologies?

After the change, would users see any difference in their user interface to the system?

Are wireless communications relevant? Or does this system run solely on wired networks?

If wireless relevant, is the wireless component the most important element? Does it relate to cellular communications?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this relate to change of network topologies? For example, a conversion from token-ring to ethernet? Or a change of network operating systems? For example, a conversion from Novell Netware or Banyan Vines to Microsoft NT? No to all.

Are the particular vendors, manufacturers, or brand names of the computing elements relavent? For example, in the previous paragraph, I mentioned Microsoft, Banyan and Novell? Are these relevant? No. There is a particular vendor involved, but that's not very important to find out.

How about IBM, Cisco, or Linux? If no to all, is there a particular brand name I need to discover but just haven't mentioned it? See above. It doesn't happen to be one of these either.

Are we concerned primarily with hardware components? Or software components? The latter.

You had answered "this" to services software. Is there one particular service we are concerned with? Is it an e-mail system? This one. A file management system? Directory services and user authentication system?

Does this relate to the migration from character based to graphical based user interfaces? No.

Does this relate to the migration from single threaded to multiple threaded applications? No.

Does this relate to the evolution of the World Wide Web that runs over the internet? Not especially.

Stepping back to the latency question, does the service involve communications across satellite links? No.

Assumption check -- please confirm accuracy of the following: a particular computer network-based system is in use by multiple users and administrators. This system provides the "service" referred to in the puzzle statement. The functioning of the system is constrained by the "law" of speed of light or electomagnetic transmission. Due to some reason to be discovered, the system changes or evolves such that the service area must be reduced geographically to a "regional" level so that its limitations relative to the speed of light can be accommodated. That he did not "remember" being downgraded is not relevant. Is this all correct? All but the last is.

Following up on the last statement, is it relevant that someone did not remember being downgraded? Yes. Was there a related incident? Please clarify.

Were the service not to have been reduced to regional level, what would the impact have been -- Could not function? Unacceptably slow performance? Difficult to manage? Loss of data? Probably none of these.

Is the use of human spoken languages relevant? No.

Are optics involved? Or are we only concerned with the transmission of electrical signals? The latter.

Now focusing on the change that occurred that necessitated the downgrade to regional service -- was the change an increased number of users? Number of elements in the system? Higher data transmission requirements? Larger file sizes? There's an FA here, so I can't really answer this.

Was the change related to a change in technology standards, e.g., new operating system or program version? This one. Was it related to a change in user requirements, e.g., the need to accomodate low latency real-time functions such as voice and video versus the transmission of text?

Does the change relate to the conversion from analog to digital technologies? No.

After the change, would users see any difference in their user interface to the system? Possibly.

Are wireless communications relevant? Or does this system run solely on wired networks? The latter.

If wireless relevant, is the wireless component the most important element? So no. Does it relate to cellular communications? No.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 5:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the downgrading intentionally performed by human action? or was it simply an unavoidable side effect of the finite speed of light plus some change?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the downgrading intentionally performed by human action? or was it simply an unavoidable side effect of the finite speed of light plus some change? The latter.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were technology standards reduced? Was there an objectively good reason for the change, whatever it was? Would the subject of this puzzle mind being downgraded once he understood the situation?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were technology standards reduced? Noish. Was there an objectively good reason for the change, whatever it was? Yesish. Would the subject of this puzzle mind being downgraded once he understood the situation? Yes.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Progress, assumption, and conclusion check:

The system in question is an e-mail system. It was upgraded to a new version. The person who did not remember being downgraded to regional service was an administrator of the system. Is all this correct?

Was the only change to the system a change in the version of the e-mail software? Something related to IP addressing or the number of available electronic addresses?

Is the e-mail system proprietary? Open-source? Internet based? Will identifying any manufacterer be helpful? Would knowing the name of the system help?

Is the e-mail system the only relevant system, or are there other supporting systems that are relevant?

If we break down an e-mail system, we have several elements: the central servers, the client workstations, the communication links between the clients and servers, and the links that connect the servers to outside e-mail systems. Does the change relate to any of these elements? If so, which one? If not, then does the change relate to file format? Communications protocol?

Does the change affect the amount of data that is involved in sending an e-mail message? The amount of data that is centrally stored? The amount of time or bandwidth involved in sending a mesage?

Does the subject being downgraded mind because he will make less money? Have reduced career prospects? Be out of a job? Have more work to do for the same pay? Are his concerns technical in nature? Are there political concerns? Will he lose staff?

Pardon me for asking the same question multiple ways -- does this change primarily impact the way the system is administered? Or the way it is used by end-users?

Drilling in on the word "remember", he didn't remember the downgrade and this is relevant? Did his failure to remember cause a problem? Did the problem relate to his using old methods and assumptions to administer the new system?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 5:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The system in question is an e-mail system. It was upgraded to a new version. The person who did not remember being downgraded to regional service was an administrator of the system. Is all this correct? Yes.

Was the only change to the system a change in the version of the e-mail software? Yes. Something related to IP addressing or the number of available electronic addresses? No.

Is the e-mail system proprietary? This one. Open-source? Internet based? Will identifying any manufacterer be helpful? Possibly, but I don't think so. Would knowing the name of the system help? See previous answer.

Is the e-mail system the only relevant system Yes , or are there other supporting systems that are relevant?

If we break down an e-mail system, we have several elements: the central servers This one, the client workstations, the communication links between the clients and servers, and the links that connect the servers to outside e-mail systems. Does the change relate to any of these elements? Yes; see above. If so, which one? If not, then does the change relate to file format? Communications protocol?

Does the change affect the amount of data that is involved in sending an e-mail message? The amount of data that is centrally stored? The amount of time or bandwidth involved in sending a mesage? None of these.

Does the subject being downgraded mind because he will make less money? Have reduced career prospects? Be out of a job? Have more work to do for the same pay? Are his concerns technical in nature? This one. Are there political concerns? Will he lose staff?

Pardon me for asking the same question multiple ways -- does this change primarily impact the way the system is administered? Or the way it is used by end-users? This one.

Drilling in on the word "remember", he didn't remember the downgrade and this is relevant? Yes. Did his failure to remember cause a problem? Yes, for svv of "problem." Did the problem relate to his using old methods and assumptions to administer the new system? No.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should he have been aware of the problem? Should he have been notified of the change? Was he notified of the change? Had he failed to check his phone/email/other messages which notified him of the change?

Is the new system simply more efficient than it was before, or has an entirely new process or machine been introduced? For example, if the server is new, is it simply a better version of the old server, or entirely different in some significant way?

Does the change save money?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It sounds like to solve this puzzle, we need to figure out (1) what the change to the system was, (2) how it relates to the speed of light, (3) how the users were affected when the administrator did not remember that there was a downgrade to regional service. Does this accurately describe the scope? Is there more to it? Less to it? Do we need to know why the administrator did not remember, or just what impact it had?

Did the change impact the users' ability to access the system? Send messages? Receive messages? View messages? Is understanding the impact on the users relevant or useful in solving the puzzle?

Instead of problem, would it be more accurate to say impact or effect, in that the change produced some impact or effect?

Before I had asked about the change that occurred that necessitated the downgrade to regional service and you answered that it contained a false assumption. Is it that the change necessitated the downgrade to regional service? Would it be better to say that the change was the downgrade?

Removing the FA, did the change involve or result in a change in number of users? Number of elements in the system? Higher or lower data transmission requirements? Larger file sizes?

Is it accurate to say that the initial change was a change in the version of the e-mail software that ran on the server or servers, and from there all of the rest of the changes or effects happened as a result?

Does regional refer only to geographical region, or are there other kinds of regions? Does service refer only to the ability of the software to function and provide e-mail to users, or does it refer to other kinds of service?

When the software was upgraded to a new version, was the performance impacted? Did it have to be reconfigured? Did the way it was deployed to hardware change?

I think we asked this already -- if the software were to have been rolled back to the previous version, could the "regional service" change be undone?

Is the e-mail Lotus Notes?

Does the puzzle involve how old e-mail is saved and accessed?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It sounds like to solve this puzzle, we need to figure out (1) what the change to the system was, (2) how it relates to the speed of light, (3) how the users were affected when the administrator did not remember that there was a downgrade to regional service. Does this accurately describe the scope? Yesish. Is there more to it? A bit more. Less to it? Do we need to know why the administrator did not remember, or just what impact it had? Both.

Did the change impact the users' ability to access the system? Send messages? This one. Receive messages? View messages? Is understanding the impact on the users relevant or useful in solving the puzzle? Yes.

Instead of problem, would it be more accurate to say impact or effect, in that the change produced some impact or effect? "Problem" is probably pretty accurate.

Before I had asked about the change that occurred that necessitated the downgrade to regional service and you answered that it contained a false assumption. Is it that the change necessitated the downgrade to regional service? Yes. Would it be better to say that the change was the downgrade? Yes.

Removing the FA, did the change involve or result in a change in number of users? Number of elements in the system? Higher or lower data transmission requirements? Larger file sizes? None of these.

Is it accurate to say that the initial change was a change in the version of the e-mail software that ran on the server or servers, and from there all of the rest of the changes or effects happened as a result? Yes.

Does regional refer only to geographical region, or are there other kinds of regions? "Geographical" is the correct sense of region. Does service refer only to the ability of the software to function and provide e-mail to users This one, or does it refer to other kinds of service?

When the software was upgraded to a new version, was the performance impacted? Yes, for certain values of performance. Did it have to be reconfigured? No, but OTRT. Did the way it was deployed to hardware change? No.

I think we asked this already -- if the software were to have been rolled back to the previous version, could the "regional service" change be undone? Yes.

Is the e-mail Lotus Notes? No.

Does the puzzle involve how old e-mail is saved and accessed? No.
Gunns256 (Gunns256)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I've solved this, but I'm a newbie. Does one jump in and say "I know! I know! It's..." or does one give a "twisted pair" of cryptic hints?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I've solved this, but I'm a newbie. Does one jump in and say "I know! I know! It's..." or does one give a "twisted pair" of cryptic hints? If you don't want to $p0i1 the puzzle and think you have the answer, why not ask a couple questions in the direction of your answer? Or you could email me with what you think is the answer.
Gunns256 (Gunns256)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK.
Was the change forced by the outcome of a lawsuit?
Is "twisted pair" a pretty good hint?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK.
Was the change forced by the outcome of a lawsuit? No.
Is "twisted pair" a pretty good hint? So no. Now I'm kind of curious as to what you had in mind...if you think it would make a good puzzle in its own right, please post it as that. :-)
Gunns256 (Gunns256)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with telephone networks? (Twisted pair was the primary cabling for telcos, especially in the 1980's)
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with telephone networks? (Twisted pair was the primary cabling for telcos, especially in the 1980's) No.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The users are only impacted in their ability to send e-mail, correct? They can still receive e-mail as before? Is this an important distinction?

What was the impact on their ability to send e-mail:
- They could not successfully send all messages?
- They could not successfully send certain messages?
- Their messages could be sent, but were delayed in their delivery?

When attempting to send e-mail, a user has to:
1. Compose a message in an editor
2. Retrieve attachments
3. Select recipients
4. Encrypt the message
5. Send the message
6. Have the message be received by the recipient in a timely manner

In which of these areas were the users impacted?

You answered that we need to know why the administrator did not remember the downgrade -- was it:
- He simply forgot
- He did not clearly understand that the software version chage was related to this change in service
- He was distracted with other aspects of administration

Is why he forgot important? Or just that he did forget?

Had the software version been changed and he had remembered, would the users have been impacted?

In failing to remember the change, did the administrator then fail to take other necessary steps that then resulted in the impact on the users?

In other words, is the impact on the users primarily due to the change in version of the software, or due to his failure to rememeber that the service had been downgraded to regional service?

Getting to the impact felt by users after the change -- was it that:
- A desired process or function now took longer than before
- A desired process or function was no longer available

In other words, was the system slow, or broken completely?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The users are only impacted in their ability to send e-mail, correct? They can still receive e-mail as before? Correct. Is this an important distinction? Yes.

What was the impact on their ability to send e-mail:
- They could not successfully send all messages?
- They could not successfully send certain messages? This one.
- Their messages could be sent, but were delayed in their delivery?

When attempting to send e-mail, a user has to:
1. Compose a message in an editor
2. Retrieve attachments
3. Select recipients
4. Encrypt the message
5. Send the message
6. Have the message be received by the recipient in a timely manner

In which of these areas were the users impacted? 5

You answered that we need to know why the administrator did not remember the downgrade -- was it:
- He simply forgot
- He did not clearly understand that the software version chage was related to this change in service This is closest.
- He was distracted with other aspects of administration

Is why he forgot important? Or just that he did forget? FA

Had the software version been changed and he had remembered, would the users have been impacted? Yes.

In failing to remember the change, did the administrator then fail to take other necessary steps that then resulted in the impact on the users? No.

In other words, is the impact on the users primarily due to the change in version of the software This one, or due to his failure to rememeber that the service had been downgraded to regional service?

Getting to the impact felt by users after the change -- was it that:
- A desired process or function now took longer than before
- A desired process or function was no longer available This one

In other words, was the system slow, or broken completely? Neither. The second is closer.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 5:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They could not send certain messages. Was the inability to send messages consistent and repeatable, meaning that certain messages could never be sent, while others could always be sent?

Assuming consistency, was the inability to send messages based on:
- Recipient
- Whether the recipient was a member of a certain group? Would this group be related to the region in "regional service"?
- Characteristics of the message content?
- Whether the recipient's address was external, such that the e-mail would have to be sent across the internet versus internal to the organization?
- The e-mail client?

When they were unable to send a message, could they still compose a message and click "send"? Did the message appear to be sent? Or were the users prevented in getting that far? Did failed messages get sent but bounced? Were headers changed as a result of the change to regional service such that they were improperly constucted, leading to misrouted e-mails?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 6:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They could not send certain messages. Was the inability to send messages consistent and repeatable, meaning that certain messages could never be sent, while others could always be sent? <b>Yes.</B.

Assuming consistency, was the inability to send messages based on:
- Recipient See next.
- Whether the recipient was a member of a certain group? Yes. Would this group be related to the region in "regional service"? Yes.
- Characteristics of the message content? No.
- Whether the recipient's address was external, such that the e-mail would have to be sent across the internet versus internal to the organization? Yope.
- The e-mail client? No.

When they were unable to send a message, could they still compose a message and click "send"? Yes. Did the message appear to be sent? No. Or were the users prevented in getting that far? Did failed messages get sent but bounced? No. Were headers changed as a result of the change to regional service such that they were improperly constucted, leading to misrouted e-mails? No.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After the change, were users able to send messages to users that were in the same "region"?

You yoped the external address question. Is this because defining external addresses as those that involve communication across the internet is incorrect?

Once it was discovered that users were unable to send e-mail to certain users, was the problem able to be resolved without rolling back to the previous version? Will understanding how the problem was ultimately resolved help us to solve this puzzle?

Was the problem resolved by clarifying which users were in each region? In other words, after the change, certain users that had previously been in the same region would now be in separate regions. Was it in these cases that there was a problem sending e-mail?
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this related to time zones?

Would the new version reject messages as spam if they crossed time zones?

Would the new version encrypt message using the current date & time?

So that each time zone would require its own server? And its own set of administrators?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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After the change, were users able to send messages to users that were in the same "region"? Yes.

You yoped the external address question. Is this because defining external addresses as those that involve communication across the internet is incorrect? No.

Once it was discovered that users were unable to send e-mail to certain users, was the problem able to be resolved without rolling back to the previous version? Yes. Will understanding how the problem was ultimately resolved help us to solve this puzzle? Yes.

Was the problem resolved by clarifying which users were in each region? Yesish. In other words, after the change, certain users that had previously been in the same region would now be in separate regions. Was it in these cases that there was a problem sending e-mail? Yes.

Is this related to time zones? No.

Would the new version reject messages as spam if they crossed time zones? No.

Would the new version encrypt message using the current date & time? No.

So that each time zone would require its own server? And its own set of administrators? Neither.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 5:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stephanleclercq brings up an interesting point -- did each region require its own server? Were there elements that were required for each region, such that when the original region was first broken into multiple regions, the required elements were not present?

If so, were these hardware elements? Software elements? Was the problem resolved by adding these elements?

Is my assumption that the original region was broken into multiple regions correct? If so, what caused what -- did the version upgrade drive the breakdown to smaller regions? Or did the breakdown to smaller regions than cause the version upgrade? I think its the former, but I want to make sure.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stephanleclercq brings up an interesting point -- did each region require its own server? No. Were there elements that were required for each region, such that when the original region was first broken into multiple regions, the required elements were not present? No.

If so, were these hardware elements? Software elements? Was the problem resolved by adding these elements? So no.

Is my assumption that the original region was broken into multiple regions correct? Yes. If so, what caused what -- did the version upgrade drive the breakdown to smaller regions? Yes. Or did the breakdown to smaller regions than cause the version upgrade? So no. I think its the former, but I want to make sure.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to figure out how speed of light figures in.

Progress check: Prior to the change, it was possible for any user to send e-mail to any user as they were all in the same region. After the change, any user could send e-mail to any user in the same region. But they could not send e-mail to users that were in different regions. Is this completely correct?

Did the process of sending an e-mail involve the consumption of a finite amount of time (that I will refer to as the time delay) that was related in part to the finite speed of light? After the change, did the time delay increase such that it exceeded a "time-out" threshold beyond which an e-mail attempt would not be accepted?

Was the problem resolved by increasing the time-out parameter?

Was the system overhead or number of processes associated with the sending of e-mail to users in different regions higher than with users in the same region?
Dartanion (Dartanion)
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 4:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we alluding to a particular part of the human machine that may be put on hold due to trauma?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Progress check: Prior to the change, it was possible for any user to send e-mail to any user as they were all in the same region. After the change, any user could send e-mail to any user in the same region. But they could not send e-mail to users that were in different regions. Is this completely correct? Correct.

Did the process of sending an e-mail involve the consumption of a finite amount of time (that I will refer to as the time delay) that was related in part to the finite speed of light? Yes. After the change, did the time delay increase such that it exceeded a "time-out" threshold beyond which an e-mail attempt would not be accepted? No.

Was the problem resolved by increasing the time-out parameter? Yes.

Was the system overhead or number of processes associated with the sending of e-mail to users in different regions higher than with users in the same region? No.

Are we alluding to a particular part of the human machine that may be put on hold due to trauma? You may be, but I'm not.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 5:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the root cause of the inability to send e-mail that a time-out parameter was being exceeded?

The time delay did not increase yet increasing the time-out parameter resolved the issue -- seems like this apparent contradiction can be explained in one of two ways:
1. The time delay referenced and time-out parameters are unrelated, or
2. If related, the change resulted in the time-out parameter being decreased rather than the time delay being increased.

Which of these is accurate? If neither, which is closer?

Does the e-mail system distinguish between regions, such that mail sent within a region is subject to one set of parameters (including the time-out parameter), and the mail sent from one region to another is subject to different set of parameters? Was the problem caused by exposing the mail attempts to a set of incorrect parameters that were not previously accessed since all the mail was originally sent within one region?

Am I on the right track? Is this level of detail required to be discovered in order to solve the puzzle? Or am I going down the wrong path?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the root cause of the inability to send e-mail that a time-out parameter was being exceeded? Yes.

The time delay did not increase yet increasing the time-out parameter resolved the issue -- seems like this apparent contradiction can be explained in one of two ways:
1. The time delay referenced and time-out parameters are unrelated, or
2. If related, the change resulted in the time-out parameter being decreased rather than the time delay being increased. This one.

Which of these is accurate? If neither, which is closer?

Does the e-mail system distinguish between regions, such that mail sent within a region is subject to one set of parameters (including the time-out parameter), and the mail sent from one region to another is subject to different set of parameters? No. Was the problem caused by exposing the mail attempts to a set of incorrect parameters that were not previously accessed since all the mail was originally sent within one region? No.

Am I on the right track? Is this level of detail required to be discovered in order to solve the puzzle? Or am I going down the wrong path? I don't like these meta-questions very much; I will say that you are definitely getting close.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to understand why mail sent within a region goes, but mail sent to another region does not go. I'll refer to mail within a region as local, and mail between regions as external.

Was the only thing that prevented an e-mail from being sent was that the time-out value was exceeded? From previous questions, we have established that the time-out value is the same for local and external mail, correct?

Is the time delay (that is subject to the time-out parameter) the same for local and external e-mails? If not, is the external time delay longer?

The time-out parameter was decreased which caused the e-mail not to go out, correct? Did the decrease occur automatically during the software upgrade? Did the system administrator set the time-out parameter at the time of the upgrade? Did he fail to set the parameter? Was the change in the parameter caused by human? Or machine?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to understand why mail sent within a region goes, but mail sent to another region does not go. I'll refer to mail within a region as local, and mail between regions as external.

Was the only thing that prevented an e-mail from being sent was that the time-out value was exceeded? Yes. From previous questions, we have established that the time-out value is the same for local and external mail, correct? Yes.

Is the time delay (that is subject to the time-out parameter) the same for local and external e-mails? No. If not, is the external time delay longer? Yes.

The time-out parameter was decreased which caused the e-mail not to go out, correct? Yes. Did the decrease occur automatically during the software upgrade? Yes. Did the system administrator set the time-out parameter at the time of the upgrade? No. Did he fail to set the parameter? Yes. Was the change in the parameter caused by human? Or machine? This, with a small ish.
Akshaydeshpande (Akshaydeshpande)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are you talking about the Telnet or the Computer Worm ?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 518
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Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are you talking about the Telnet or the Computer Worm ? Neither.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Friday, July 03, 2009 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the e-mail software was upgraded, the time-out value was automatically set to be sufficient for local e-mail but not for external e-mail, correct? Was it left then for the administrator to make the appropriate adjustment to accommodate external e-mail? Was the administrator's failure to "remember being downgraded to regional service" a failure to account for the distinction between local and external e-mail? And make the necessary accommodations, i.e., lengthen the time-out parameter as required?

If all of the above are Yes, then what remains to be solved?
- Name of the e-mail software?
- The process steps involved in sending an e-mail?
- The specific reason that sending an external e-mail involves a longer light-speed related time delay than does a local e-mail?
- Other details related to the administrator?
- Other details related to the software?
- Other details related to the overall system?
- Other details not described above?

Assuming the reason time variance is to be determined, does sending an external e-mail involve a process with more steps than a local e-mail, e.g., more "hops"? Or do certain steps take longer? Because of longer distances involved?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 523
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 3:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the e-mail software was upgraded, the time-out value was automatically set to be sufficient for local e-mail but not for external e-mail, correct? Yes. Was it left then for the administrator to make the appropriate adjustment to accommodate external e-mail? Yes, for svv of "appropriate adjustment." Was the administrator's failure to "remember being downgraded to regional service" a failure to account for the distinction between local and external e-mail? Noish. And make the necessary accommodations, i.e., lengthen the time-out parameter as required? Yes.

If all of the above are Yes, then what remains to be solved?
- Name of the e-mail software?
- The process steps involved in sending an e-mail?
- The specific reason that sending an external e-mail involves a longer light-speed related time delay than does a local e-mail? This.
- Other details related to the administrator?
- Other details related to the software? This as well.
- Other details related to the overall system? And a bit of this.
- Other details not described above?

Assuming the reason time variance is to be determined, does sending an external e-mail involve a process with more steps than a local e-mail, e.g., more "hops"? No. Or do certain steps take longer? Yes. Because of longer distances involved? Indeed.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the e-mail message itself have a longer distance to travel? Or are there other electronic transactions that relate to the sending of an e-mail that must travel over a longer distance?

For example, I can envision a situation where a destination address for a local e-mail might be obtained from a local server, whereas an external e-mail would involve obtaining an address from a "global" server that might be located many miles away. While the e-mail message would not be sent through the global server, a query would be sent to the global server to determine the destination address. Anything like this? Is address resolution or name resolution involved?

Is the increased distance on the order of 1 mm, cm, m, km, 10km, 1000km?

During the sending of an e-mail, is this distance transversed a single time? Multiple times? I can envision a scenario where a small increase in distance could result in a significant time dealy if that distance had to be traveled millions of times for a single message. Anything like this?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 527
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the e-mail message itself have a longer distance to travel? Yes. Or are there other electronic transactions that relate to the sending of an e-mail that must travel over a longer distance? Not this.

For example, I can envision a situation where a destination address for a local e-mail might be obtained from a local server, whereas an external e-mail would involve obtaining an address from a "global" server that might be located many miles away. While the e-mail message would not be sent through the global server, a query would be sent to the global server to determine the destination address. Anything like this? Is address resolution or name resolution involved? Neither.

Is the increased distance on the order of 1 mm, cm, m, km, 10km, 1000km? The last.

During the sending of an e-mail, is this distance transversed a single time? Multiple times? This one. I can envision a scenario where a small increase in distance could result in a significant time dealy if that distance had to be traveled millions of times for a single message. Anything like this? Not this.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting. Were local e-mails able to be sent more directly from sender to recipient? Were external e-mails relayed through some geographically distant loction, even though sender and receiver might be relatively much closer?

Was the process for external mail something like the following: the sender sends an e-mail to a recipient, but the message has to travel a long distance to a "relay" server and back to the recipient? The recipient's system then responds back through approximately the same path and distance? Or was the recipient able to respond more directly? Anyway, all this takes time due to the finite speed of light, so some element of the system times out? If so, do I need to determine what element times out? And the nature of the response of the recipient's system? Was error-checking involved?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 528
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Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting. Were local e-mails able to be sent more directly from sender to recipient? In some cases, yes. Were external e-mails relayed through some geographically distant loction, even though sender and receiver might be relatively much closer? In some cases, yes.

Was the process for external mail something like the following: the sender sends an e-mail to a recipient, but the message has to travel a long distance to a "relay" server and back to the recipient? In some cases, yes. The recipient's system then responds back through approximately the same path and distance? Yes. Or was the recipient able to respond more directly? In some cases, yes. Anyway, all this takes time due to the finite speed of light, so some element of the system times out? Yes. If so, do I need to determine what element times out? Yes. And the nature of the response of the recipient's system? No. Was error-checking involved? So don't worry about this.
Akshaydeshpande (Akshaydeshpande)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any thing related to Local Area Wireless networks ?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any thing related to Local Area Wireless networks ? No.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am defining "external" e-mail as that mail that travels from one "region" to another. "Local" e-mail travels within one region. Prior to the version upgrade, there was only one region that encompassed the world, so all e-mail was local. So far so good?

After the upgrade, does all external e-mail travel through a "relay" server? Does all local e-mail travel directly from sender to recipient? Does this get to the crux as to why sending external e-mail resulted in timing out?

Here is what I am trying to clarify: when I asked, "Was the process for external mail something like the following: the sender sends an e-mail to a recipient, but the message has to travel a long distance to a "relay" server and back to the recipient?", you answered "In some cases, yes." Are there cases where an external e-mail does not flow through a relay server? Are there cases where local mail does flow through a relay server?

Did you answer "in some cases" because my question did not clearly specify what scenario I was referring to; i.e., pre-upgrade versus post-upgrade? Or because, post-upgrade, external e-mail sometimes flows through a relay server and sometimes flows directly from sender to recipient?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

region. Prior to the version upgrade, there was only one region that encompassed the world, so all e-mail was local. So far so good? Correct so far.

After the upgrade, does all external e-mail travel through a "relay" server? No. Does all local e-mail travel directly from sender to recipient? No. Does this get to the crux as to why sending external e-mail resulted in timing out? It is relevant and OTRT.

Here is what I am trying to clarify: when I asked, "Was the process for external mail something like the following: the sender sends an e-mail to a recipient, but the message has to travel a long distance to a "relay" server and back to the recipient?", you answered "In some cases, yes." Are there cases where an external e-mail does not flow through a relay server? Yes. Are there cases where local mail does flow through a relay server? Yes.

Did you answer "in some cases" because my question did not clearly specify what scenario I was referring to; i.e., pre-upgrade versus post-upgrade? Or because, post-upgrade, external e-mail sometimes flows through a relay server and sometimes flows directly from sender to recipient? The latter.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I've heard of something like this happening once, is it based on a true story? Is the region defined, such that everyone in region "A" can email everyone else in that region but nobody else, or does it have to do with distance, so that people using the system can email anyone within a certain distance but nobody outside? If so, could person A email person B, which could then forward to person C, although C is out of reach from A? Can A still ping C? Is the ping time a clue, i.e. can A email everyone that has a ping time below a certain limit?
Is the distance between the users the limiting factor, or the distance between servers? Was the upgrade done on all servers? some? One? Are all users of the email system affected in the same way? What if they're sending emails that go outside the system (if that is possible)?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 556
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I've heard of something like this happening once, is it based on a true story? Yes. Is the region defined, such that everyone in region "A" can email everyone else in that region but nobody else, or does it have to do with distance, so that people using the system can email anyone within a certain distance but nobody outside? The latter...ish. If so, could person A email person B, which could then forward to person C, although C is out of reach from A? Yes. Can A still ping C? Yes. Is the ping time a clue, i.e. can A email everyone that has a ping time below a certain limit? Yes.
Is the distance between the users the limiting factor, or the distance between servers? The latter, with a small "ish" Was the upgrade done on all servers? some? One? This. Are all users of the email system affected in the same way? Yes. What if they're sending emails that go outside the system (if that is possible)? Please clarify.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I know this story, so I'll leave it up to someone else to figure out (:
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, first time poster here. Let me give this a try:

- "he" (Tom) is an IT administrator for an academic institution
- the academic institution changed/upgraded to new email software (NES)
- the NES has a different default "timeout" setting than what was previously used by the institution
- this "timeout" setting is based on the time it takes for a "receipt" to be recieved by the sender's (server? computer?) from the recipient's (server? computer?)
- the shorter default "timeout" setting in the NES meant that "receipts" for messages sent further than distance "X" would not return before the "timeout" based on data transfer speed limitations
- the distance "X" from Tom's server defines his "region"
- if Tom had adjusted the NES's default timeout settings upward, he would have expanded "X" to a distance that would have kept all (computers? servers?) in the same "region"
- Tom is now on the phone with tech support for the NES and has just been told why some outgoing messages are not going through

Is each of the above statements correct?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

- "he" (Tom) is an IT administrator for an academic institution Yes.
- the academic institution changed/upgraded to new email software (NES) Yes.
- the NES has a different default "timeout" setting than what was previously used by the institution Yope.
- this "timeout" setting is based on the time it takes for a "receipt" to be recieved by the sender's (server? computer?) from the recipient's (server? computer?) Yes.
- the shorter default "timeout" setting in the NES meant that "receipts" for messages sent further than distance "X" would not return before the "timeout" based on data transfer speed limitations Yes.
- the distance "X" from Tom's server defines his "region" Yesish.
- if Tom had adjusted the NES's default timeout settings upward, he would have expanded "X" to a distance that would have kept all (computers? servers?) in the same "region" Yesish, small FA
- Tom is now on the phone with tech support for the NES and has just been told why some outgoing messages are not going through No.

Is each of the above statements correct? See above.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom adjust the timeout settings? or someone else did?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Tom adjust the timeout settings? To cause the initial "downgrade?" No. or someone else did? Yope.
Fuhad (Fuhad)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man downloading too much, so his Internet company down graded his service?

The law referring to company policy?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 3:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man downloading too much, so his Internet company down graded his service?

The law referring to company policy?

Neither. I suggest you read some of the previous questions and answers, because these have been addressed.
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 5:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the communications to the "external" addresses go through satellites instead of ground wires?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the communications to the "external" addresses go through satellites instead of ground wires? No.
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the external address on a mobile or stable device?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the external address on a mobile or stable device? Could be either.
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the communication go through broadcast towers???(ex. cell phone tower)
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 6:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the communication go through broadcast towers???(ex. cell phone tower) It could, but in this case it didn't.
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there any way i could sway you to give us a hint???????????????????
Windo (Windo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the region about 1000 miles in diameter? was that calculated my mathematicians based on experimental data? was it later verified by a command line program?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 6:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the region about 1000 miles in diameter? Yes. was that calculated my mathematicians based on experimental data? Yesish. was it later verified by a command line program? Yes.

I think you know this one, and it's gone on quite long enough, so feel free to put it all together and $p0i1 it.
Birchthebirch (Birchthebirch)
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Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he a robot
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he a robot No, he's not a robot. I'm certain it was established in one of the earliest posts that he is human. Also adult and male.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Care to post a recap or $poil this one Dan?
Rodo (Rodo)
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Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a politician?
Oisin (Oisin)
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Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that before the upgrade, the program did not do a ping check on the recipient email address; or did so, but without (or with a longer) a time out check? And after the upgrade, external addresses would fail the ping timeout?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that before the upgrade, the program did not do a ping check on the recipient email address; or did so, but without (or with a longer) a time out check? And after the upgrade, external addresses would fail the ping timeout? Exactly so. I think everything's been covered, so I'll $p0i1 this tomorrow.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, April 02, 2010 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the delay...here we go.

**********SPOILER**********
This is based on "The Case of the 500-Mile Email," found here: http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html

The administrator for the email system at a university got a call one day from a department head saying that they couldn't send any email beyond "500 miles, or maybe a little bit more." After he confirmed that, unbelievably, this was actually happening, and all emails to destinations more than 500 miles away were failing, the admin asked if anything had changed recently, finding out only that a consultant had come in and "patched the system." At this point, one could imagine him saying "I don't remember being downgraded to regional service."

After some experimentation, the admin checked his configuration file, only to find that it was exactly the same as he remembered writing it. But when he logged into the mail server, he found that an old version of the mail program was installed -- he had installed the newer one, but the consultant's operating system upgrade had replaced it with the older one that was still being shipped with the operating system.

This older version didn't understand the configuration options as written for the newer version, and set most of them to 0. One of the options set to 0 was the timeout to connect to the recipient's mail server. The admin found through some experimentation that this meant the packet had about three milliseconds to reach its destination before the connection would abort, and that this time was mostly determined by the distance to the other mail server. He calculated the distance light travels in three milliseconds, which came out to 558 miles -- "500 miles, or a little bit more."

299,792,458 meters per second. Not just a good idea -- it's the law.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, April 02, 2010 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh yes, and thank you to all participants, and Oisin for finishing the solution. I knew this would be a tough one, but I had no idea it would run this long and accumulate this many posts. I may not be around here for a while, since I've become busy with other interests, but I'm sure I'll find my way back eventually.

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