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Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 226
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Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, this is my third active puzzle, so I still fit in the parameters for posting. This one was too good, I just couldn't pass it up!

True story: I am a teacher. One of my students had a B, and he was sad. I gave another student a C, and she was satisfied. But the student who had an F was thrilled! Why?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 302
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Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it give him the excuse he needed to drop the class? To take an easier class instead?

Are the grades of the standard A/B/C/D/F scale? Did he misinterpret the grade?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 194
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Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his name start with an F?

Were the students trying to get graders furthest along in the alphabest?

Were these actually grades given on performance? or were they letters? Cut out letters? wooden letters? musical notes to play?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 195
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Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he going to get punished for something else he had done at home and had previously been told that receiving an F would be the end of the world? And so he thought that getting this F would end the world, and therefor he couldn't possibly be punished since the world was ended
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 228
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

D_gordon:
Did it give him the excuse he needed to drop the class? No. To take an easier class instead?No, he's still excelling in my class.

Are the grades of the standard A/B/C/D/F scale? No, good question.Did he misinterpret the grade?FA.

Bolapara:
Did his name start with an F?No, irr.

Were the students trying to get graders furthest along in the alphabest?No with a little ish. Beware FA.

Were these actually grades given on performance?NO...aha! or were they letters?Getting warm. Yes. Cut out letters?No. wooden letters? No.musical notes to play?No, good idea though.

Was he going to get punished for something else he had done at home and had previously been told that receiving an F would be the end of the world? And so he thought that getting this F would end the world, and therefor he couldn't possibly be punished since the world was endedNo.
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you playing scrabble? Some other similar game? And the B left the person with no words to play, the C person had some, and the F allowed the person to get a really high-scoring word?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 231
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you playing scrabble? Some other similar game? And the B left the person with no words to play, the C person had some, and the F allowed the person to get a really high-scoring word?Good thought, but no to all.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the letters stand for words? Do they refer to grades of any kind? Predicted/target grades? Was the F student happy that he could get his target easily?

When you "gave" them the letter, did you physically give them something? Did you assign them a letter? Had you swapped around which letter you gave to which student, would the B student still have been sad, the C satisfied and the F thrilled?

Is there something relevant about each student which affected your decision of what to give them? Their intelligence? How much you like them?

Were these the only letters given out or did other students in the class get letters too? Were all the letters in the alphabet given out? Only those used in a standard grading system?

When you say that your students "had" a B or an F, had you given them these letters? Or did they get them some other way?

Were the students who were happy with their letter happy because it had meant they had done well? Meant you thought highly of them? Meant they would have it easier in the future?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 238
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the letters stand for words? Noish. Do they refer to grades of any kind? No.Predicted/target grades? Was the F student happy that he could get his target easily?I'm sorry but I don't understand.

When you "gave" them the letter, did you physically give them something? Yes.Did you assign them a letter? Yesish. Beware FA.Had you swapped around which letter you gave to which student, would the B student still have been sad, the C satisfied and the F thrilled?No, they would have been all happy to get the F, I think.

Is there something relevant about each student which affected your decision of what to give them? Yope. Their intelligence? No.How much you like them? Yes.

Were these the only letters given out or did other students in the class get letters too? Everyone got a letter.Were all the letters in the alphabet given out? No.Only those used in a standard grading system?No.

When you say that your students "had" a B or an F, had you given them these letters? Yes.Or did they get them some other way?

Were the students who were happy with their letter happy because it had meant they had done well? Yesish.Meant you thought highly of them? Not really.Meant they would have it easier in the future?No.
Adryghi (Adryghi)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were B, C, and F the only letters handed out?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were B, C, and F the only letters handed out? Nope.
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any letters not between A and F handed out?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any letters not between A and F handed out?No.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the letters made of paper? Wood? Metal? food?
Are the relative sizes of the physical leters relevant?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 244
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the letters made of paper? Yesish.Wood? No to rest. Paper is as wooden as it gets.Metal? food?
Are the relative sizes of the physical leters relevant?No.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are some other objects relevant? IE teachers prize bag or christmas gift swap items?

Order or choosing prizes? What prize you get?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*order OF choosing prizes, I mean
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the letters printed on paper? Did the students receive anything other than the letter? Were the following letters given out at all:
A?
D?
E?
Were any others than these and B,C,F handed out? Was anything else, eg numbers or symbols, given out in the same way? Were some/all of the letters given to more than one person? Is it relevant how many people were in your class? Their ages relevant?

Did the letter the student received mean that something else would happen which made them sad/satisfied/thrilled? Or was receiving the letter itself enough to bring about these emotions?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this the order students needed to do something in? Ie take an oral exam or give a presentation?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bolapara:
Are some other objects relevant? Yesish.IE teachers prize bag or christmas gift swap items? But not this.

Order or choosing prizes? What prize you get?No.

Enjay:
Are the letters printed on paper? Yes.Did the students receive anything other than the letter? No.Were the following letters given out at all:
A? The day before
D? Yes.
E? Yes.
Were any others than these and B,C,F handed out? The next day, I gave them F-J.Was anything else, eg numbers or symbols, given out in the same way? No.Were some/all of the letters given to more than one person? Yes.Is it relevant how many people were in your class?No. Their ages relevant? Yesish.

Did the letter the student received mean that something else would happen which made them sad/satisfied/thrilled? Not really.Or was receiving the letter itself enough to bring about these emotions?This is more accurate.

Bolapara:
Was this the order students needed to do something in? Ie take an oral exam or give a presentation?No to these.
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 247
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bolapara:
Are some other objects relevant? Yope.IE teachers prize bag or christmas gift swap items? No.

Order of choosing prizes? What prize you get?No to these.

Enjay:

Are the letters printed on paper? Yes.Did the students receive anything other than the letter? No.Were the following letters given out at all:
A? The day before.
D? Yes.
E? Yes.
Were any others than these and B,C,F handed out? Yes, G-J the following day.Was anything else, eg numbers or symbols, given out in the same way? No.Were some/all of the letters given to more than one person? Yes.Is it relevant how many people were in your class?No. Their ages relevant? Yesish.

Did the letter the student received mean that something else would happen which made them sad/satisfied/thrilled? No. Or was receiving the letter itself enough to bring about these emotions?This is closest.

Bolapara:

Was this the order students needed to do something in? Ie take an oral exam or give a presentation? No to these.
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something different about the B, C, and F other than what letter they were? The color? The size? The font?
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also (hit post by mistake), are there any other letters you could have given the B student that would make him sad? Any you could have given the C student to make him just satisfied? Any you could have given the F student to make him delighted?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Post Number: 249
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something different about the B, C, and F other than what letter they were? The color? The size? The font?No to all.

Also (hit post by mistake), are there any other letters you could have given the B student that would make him sad? Probably. Any you could have given the C student to make him just satisfied? Probably. Any you could have given the F student to make him delighted? Probably.

Sorry for the vagueness on the last set of questions, but I am giving my best yes/no answer.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would all the letters eventually be given out?
Did you literally give each student a piece of paper with a letter printed on it? Or was there more on the paper?
Would all the students who received a particular letter have had the same reaction? Is there any particular reason you've chosen B,C and F to tell us the student's reactions? Would the students who received D and E have been happier than the C student, but not as happy as the F student?

Did the students receive a letter each day? Or did they get only one in total? If the former, is the child's reaction to their letter related to the letter(s) they have previously received?

Would it be helpful to delve deeper into which letters were given out when (eg, was A the only letter given out the day before the puzzle takes place? Does this whole thing take place over, say,a week?) or would this be following the wrong path?

Are your students aged:
Under 5?
5-8?
8-10?
10-12?
12-14?
15-18?
Older?
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you teach English? Math? Science? History? A foreign language? Some other subject? Is this relevant?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:
Would all the letters eventually be given out?Yes.
Did you literally give each student a piece of paper with a letter printed on it? Yes.Or was there more on the paper?Yesish.
Would all the students who received a particular letter have had the same reaction? Probably.Is there any particular reason you've chosen B,C and F to tell us the student's reactions? No.Would the students who received D and E have been happier than the C student, but not as happy as the F student?Most likely.

Did the students receive a letter each day? Yesish.Or did they get only one in total?No. If the former, is the child's reaction to their letter related to the letter(s) they have previously received?Yesish.

Would it be helpful to delve deeper into which letters were given out when (eg, was A the only letter given out the day before the puzzle takes place? Does this whole thing take place over, say,a week?) or would this be following the wrong path?It would be kinda irr.

Are your students aged:
Under 5?
5-8?This one.
8-10?
10-12?
12-14?
15-18?
Older?

Smartyllama:
Do you teach English? I was teaching this one during the time.Math? Science? History? A foreign language? Some other subject? Is this relevant?Very.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you teaching English as a first language?
Are you teaching them to read? Teaching them the alphabet? Is the F child happy since he has progressed further through the alphabet than the others (ie can read up to F, whereas the others can't)?

Are any full words printed on the paper that you give them? Is th alphabet printed on it?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you teaching English as a first language?Yes.
Are you teaching them to read? Uhh...not quite.Teaching them the alphabet? Yesish.Is the F child happy since he has progressed further through the alphabet than the others YES!(ie can read up to F, whereas the others can't)?But not this.

Are any full words printed on the paper that you give them? Yes.Is th alphabet printed on it?Yope...

You all are almost there!
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so it wouldn't be the order they get to line up to go somewhere then?

Do you have to get A-E before you can get F? Does the word on the F paper comprise of letters made up of A-E? Is it a new word that no one else in the class knows?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so it wouldn't be the order they get to line up to go somewhere then?No.

Do you have to get A-E before you can get F? Yes. Does the word on the F paper comprise of letters made up of A-E? No, but I think it should have.Is it a new word that no one else in the class knows?No.
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they learning to spell? Was the child with F learning faster than the others?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they learning to spell? Not quite.Was the child with F learning faster than the others?YES! That was his perception, and that's why he was happy.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and the others were sad because they thought it meant they were slower learners, when that was not necessarily the case.

it may have just been that they were slower at learning the order of the letters, or learning one of the earlier letters. Ie the child given a B, may have actually already know D-z, but was struggling with B and C so she thought she was behind everyone else
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and the others were sad because they thought it meant they were slower learners, when that was not necessarily the case.Yeah, exactly.

it may have just been that they were slower at learning the order of the letters, or learning one of the earlier letters. Ie the child given a B, may have actually already know D-z, but was struggling with B and C so she thought she was behind everyone else Yeah, you are completely right. Unfortunately, though, FA in this particular situation.

Hint: The children were in second grade, so they already knew their ABCs, and most children could already read and spell relatively well. Now, it is up to you guys to figure out what is the missing link.

I expect a spoil by tomorrow, because you all are very close.
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they have to learn the letters and then you gave it to them? They had to learn the alphabet up to that point at which point they were given that letter to learn?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they need to recall, think of, or list words starting with the letters?
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you encouraging them to read more books...do they have to read a book that starts with each letter in the alphabet?

Or maybe you have asked them to write a report about an object that starts with each letter?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Smartyllama:
Did they have to learn the letters and then you gave it to them? Yope, beware FA. They had to learn the alphabet up to that point at which point they were given that letter to learn?Uh...yope, I guess. Beware FA.

I don't mean to confuse you further. Let me try to clarify. They already knew their alphabet, but...

Biograd:

Did they need to recall, think of, or list words starting with the letters?No.

Kaygee:

Are you encouraging them to read more books...do they have to read a book that starts with each letter in the alphabet?No.

Or maybe you have asked them to write a report about an object that starts with each letter?Good thought but no.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is cursive writing relevant?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The phonetic pronunciations of that letter?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is cursive writing relevant?Yes!!! See spoiler below.
The phonetic pronunciations of that letter?No.

********SPOILER:********
At this point in the year, my second graders were beginning to learn how to write in cursive. They each got a ditto sheet where they had to trace the letters, and write letters of their own, and at the bottom, they would have to trace and write words containing the letter.

I began by showing them the cursive alphabet, and writing words on the chalkboard. They surprised me by already knowing how to read cursive, so instead of babying them, I decided to let them practice writing at their own pace, with supervision.

Each time a child finished a sheet, I would give them the next letter. Some students moved slowly and deliberately, while others sped through their work, trying to "beat" each other.

One little boy, who was working carefully (and still on the letter B, while others were on C, D, E, and F) was very disappointed, and wanted to give up. On the other extreme, my little speed demon would announce happily to the class whenever he finished a worksheet. "I'm on F," he told them, as the rest of them responded with an envious, "Whoa."

To help with this situation, I enlisted the help of the "B" boy. I told him that I was proud of him for taking his time and working neatly, and asked him if I could show the class his work. He agreed, so I held up his paper, and told the class, "This is an example of A work. I'm looking for neatness and accuracy. It's all about quality, and not quantity. Take your time."

"B" boy smiled and got back to work, while "F" boy's face dropped.
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congratulations, and thanks for playing!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great puzzle with a satisfying solution, thanks!
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
New member
Username: Howardwoman

Post Number: 261
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Enjay! I appreciate it!

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