| Author | Message | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2039 Registered: 12-2004 |
Because he was concerned for people's safety, Jorge was arrested. Early $P0!13R5 please email. | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2009 |
he: H? A? M? Jorge: H? A? M? he = Jorge? If he were not concerned for people's safety, Jorge would never be arrested? Jorge was arrested by whom? Police? What problems did Jorge cause for people's safety? People means normal citizens? People are not criminals or members of a gang? | ||
| D_gordon (D_gordon)
New member Username: D_gordon Post Number: 321 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is taking pictures or videos of public places relevant? Of police officers? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2047 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: he: H? Yep A? Yep M? Yep Jorge: H? Yep Yep A? Yep M? Yep he = Jorge? Yep If he were not concerned for people's safety, Jorge would never be arrested? He would not, at least, have been arrested relevant to the puzzle. Jorge was arrested by whom? Police? Yep What problems did Jorge cause for people's safety? Yope People means normal citizens? Yesish People are not criminals or members of a gang? Irrelevant D Gordon: Is taking pictures or videos of public places relevant? No Of police officers? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2009 |
Are the police corrupt or not acting in people's interest? Was Jorge trying to prevent something undertaken by government/emperor that could have caused problems for people? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2054 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Are the police corrupt or not acting in people's interest? No Was Jorge trying to prevent something undertaken by government/emperor that could have caused problems for people? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2009 |
Is Jorge a scientist, environmentalist, political leader? Is his profession relevant? Is he a criminal? Is the country & century in which this happened relevant? Did anyone complain about Jorge to police? Did the police come to know about him from TV, Press, Internet, Magazines, other publications? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2063 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno Is Jorge a scientist, environmentalist, political leader? Irrelevant Is his profession relevant? Nope Is he a criminal? Technically yes, because he committed a crime. Is the country & century in which this happened relevant? Yes. United States, 21st century Did anyone complain about Jorge to police? Irrelevant Did the police come to know about him from TV, Press, Internet, Magazines, other publications? No or irrelevant | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2009 |
Is his crime relevant? What was it - murder, robbery, theft, fraud? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2068 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Is his crime relevant? Yes What was it - murder, robbery, theft, fraud? None of these | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1788 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is it a crime involving children? Is this an example of many countries' over protective societies? Did he help a child across the road and get arrested as a paedophile? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2075 Registered: 12-2004 |
Peter365: Is it a crime involving children? No Is this an example of many countries' over protective societies? No Did he help a child across the road and get arrested as a paedophile? No, but the concept is not too far away from the sort of thinking that would be helpful in this puzzle. | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 266 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is this related to weird paranoia in the UK - like when a father was arrested for taking pictures of his own children, and only his own children, on a playground? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2077 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bolapara: Is this related to weird paranoia in the UK - like when a father was arrested for taking pictures of his own children, and only his own children, on a playground? No. For one thing, I already said this took place in the U.S. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 255 Registered: 9-2008 |
Was Jorge doing something unsafe? Were his actions an attempt to point out a safety issue? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2131 Registered: 12-2004 |
Kaygee: Was Jorge doing something unsafe? Not in my opinion. Were his actions an attempt to point out a safety issue? Yesish, explore | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2009 |
Was Jorge trying to show leakages in security systems like: 1. Sneaking into a non-civilian, high security territory? 2. Bringing prohibited stuff like knife, revolver onto an airplane? 3. Showing leakages in a software/website which would cause hacking? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2134 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Was Jorge trying to show leakages in security systems Nope like: 1. Sneaking into a non-civilian, high security territory? Nope 2. Bringing prohibited stuff like knife, revolver onto an airplane? Nope 3. Showing leakages in a software/website which would cause hacking? Nope | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2009 |
Is it a situation of misunderstanding? As in, he was trying to help with people's security but the police perceived it in a wrong way? Where & when did this happen? Is the place and time relevant? Is it a case of sting operation? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2137 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Is it a situation of misunderstanding? As in, he was trying to help with people's security but the police perceived it in a wrong way? No Where & when did this happen? Yesish Is the place and time relevant? Yesish Is it a case of sting operation? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2009 |
Is it related to banking? Did this happen in 19th century, 20th century? The security issue that Alberto pointed out, does it stand corrected now? Was Alberto released later when proven not guilty? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2158 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Is it related to banking? No Did this happen in 19th century, 20th century? No. This happened in the 21st century. The security issue that Alberto pointed out, does it stand corrected now? Not really Was Alberto released later when proven not guilty? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 54 Registered: 2-2009 |
Could this have happened in the 19th century? 18th century? What punishment did Alberto receive? If he was jailed, for how long? Had he not pointed out the safety issues, what safety problems would have encountered the people - murder? robbery? rape? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2174 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Could this have happened in the 19th century? Probably not 18th century? Nope What punishment did Alberto receive? Yes If he was jailed, for how long? Yesish Had he not pointed out the safety issues, what safety problems would have encountered the people Yope - murder? No robbery? No rape? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 55 Registered: 2-2009 |
In continuation of previous questions about safety ... Had he not pointed out the safety issues, what safety problems would have encountered the people - environmental problems? Water pollution? air pollution? food poisoning? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2185 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: In continuation of previous questions about safety ... Had he not pointed out the safety issues, what safety problems would have encountered the people - environmental problems? No Water pollution? No air pollution? No food poisoning? No | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 65 Registered: 2-2009 |
Are we talking about two different sets of people here (Let's call them set 1 & set 2)? He was concerned about set 1 and that was against set 2 and hence he was arrested? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2195 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: Are we talking about two different sets of people here (Let's call them set 1 & set 2)? I suppose that in some really obscure way, you could say that. He was concerned about set 1 and that was against set 2 and hence he was arrested? Noish. You might want to find out the nature of his crime. | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 75 Registered: 2-2009 |
What was his crime? Murder? Robbery? Fraud? Rape? Act against national interest? Racism? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2203 Registered: 12-2004 |
Finno: What was his crime? Hmmm... I feel like we've been here before... Murder? Nothing as drastic as this Robbery? Ditto Fraud? Ditto Rape? Ditto Act against national interest? Like espionage or treason? If so, then ditto Racism? I don't believe this is a crime in the United States (yet). However, there was nothing racist, sexist, or anything of that nature relevant to this puzzle. There was a hazard that would have been dangerous for anyone, regardless of sex, gender, religion, or physical appearance. Jorge simply tried to make the hazard less dangerous, and he was consequentially charged with a crime. | ||
| D_gordon (D_gordon)
New member Username: D_gordon Post Number: 403 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Animorphs relevant? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2215 Registered: 12-2004 |
D. Gordon: Is Animorphs relevant? Unfortunately not | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 440 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is his crime trespassing? Inciting panick? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2220 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bolapara: Is his crime trespassing? Nay Inciting panick? Negative | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2009 |
OK, my first post, I'll take a stab at it. Is the particular safety issue he is concerned with relavent to solving this puzzle, or was he concerned about safety in general? Was his concern about safety rational -- would a reasonable person share his concern? Was his arrest directly connected to the safety issue in question? Was his arrest due to innappropriate actions he took? Would his actions have been appropriate in a different situation or would they always be illegal? I'm assuming he was arrested due to actions he took -- is this correct? Was Jorge involved in vigilantism? Assuming Jorge's criminal actions were due to his concern for people's safety, were they intended to prevent the safety breach? Intervene during the hazardous situation? Respond after the fact? Was Jorge mistaken about the nature of the danger? Forgive the overlappging questions. Also, if you will indulge me in one off-topic query -- is there a FAQ or post that defines common abbreviations and conventions used in this forum? I couldn't find it. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2226 Registered: 12-2004 |
OK, my first post, I'll take a stab at it. And what's a better place to do so then a Doctapeppa puzzle? Is the particular safety issue he is concerned with relavent to solving this puzzle, or was he concerned about safety in general? The former Was his concern about safety rational -- would a reasonable person share his concern? Yes Was his arrest directly connected to the safety issue in question? Somewhat Was his arrest due to innappropriate actions he took? Apparently the state attorney thought so. Would his actions have been appropriate in a different situation or would they always be illegal? Hmmm... I suppose there could be a way that it would be appropriate. I'm assuming he was arrested due to actions he took -- is this correct? Yes Was Jorge involved in vigilantism? No, with perhaps a slight -ish. Assuming Jorge's criminal actions were due to his concern for people's safety, were they intended to prevent the safety breach? Help reduce it, at least Intervene during the hazardous situation? Noish Respond after the fact? No Was Jorge mistaken about the nature of the danger? No Forgive the overlappging questions. Also, if you will indulge me in one off-topic query -- is there a FAQ or post that defines common abbreviations and conventions used in this forum? I couldn't find it. You can check out my Wikipedia user page about the LTPF, "Getting Started", and the User Guide and FAQ. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask them in the Chatroom and a moderator or other experienced member will swoop down to your aid. Welcome to the LTPF! | ||
| Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
Moderator Username: Noobdogg Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2009 |
Did Jorge expect to get arrested? Was he aware that he was breaking a law? Did the incident happen in a public place? On the road? Was he driving? Simply walking? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2228 Registered: 12-2004 |
Noobdogg: Did Jorge expect to get arrested? Yesish Was he aware that he was breaking a law? Yes Did the incident happen in a public place? Yes On the road? This one, and it is quite relevant Was he driving? Nope Simply walking? Not quite | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2009 |
Does the type of road (public, toll, limited access, etc.) matter? Assuming this is a modern road that automobiles drive upon, no? Safety issue relate to cars? Driver safety? Pedestrian safety? Animal safety? Was he obstructing or stopping traffic? Was he stationary at the time of the offence? Anybody else with him at the time? Was he using accessories or tools in the commission of his crime? Did his crime cause accidents? | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 489 Registered: 12-2008 |
Was it because I was a corrupt police officer and he was trying to announce my crimes at the town meeting? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2234 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Does the type of road (public, toll, limited access, etc.) matter? Yesish. It was a public street. Assuming this is a modern road that automobiles drive upon, no? Your assumption would be correct. Safety issue relate to cars? Yes Driver safety? Perhaps Pedestrian safety? Yes Animal safety? Not likely Was he obstructing or stopping traffic? No Was he stationary at the time of the offence? Noish Anybody else with him at the time? Irrelevant Was he using accessories or tools in the commission of his crime? Hmmm... I guess you could say that. Did his crime cause accidents? I doubt it. Bolapara: Was it because I was a corrupt police officer and he was trying to announce my crimes at the town meeting? Shhh! This may be a private posting area, but it is readable to the public. In any event, that matter of fact is not relevant to this puzzle in the slightest. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2009 |
Is the safety issue of concern the risk of pedestrians being struck by vehicles? Was Jorge arrested for swerving his vehicle at jaywalkers in order to frighten them into being more careful? Was he warning people about the presence of police? Was he in a vehicle a the time of the offence? Was he on foot? If neither, is his location relavent? We have identified four classes of participants in this problem -- cops, pedestrians, drivers, Jorge. Are there any other classes of people involved? Are there any subdivisions within the identified classes that are relavent? Is the specific number in each relavent? Does the crime involve an attempt to communicate to (1) drivers, (2) pedestrians, (3) police, (4) other parties? Could his communication be considered to be a warning? If so, was the warning to the party at risk of danger? The party posing the risk? Did police directly observe Jorge commit the crime? Did they respond to a complaint? You gave a yesish to type of road and said it was public. Any other qualities of the road relavant? Speed of traffic? one way versus two way? Geographical location? Weather conditions? Is weather, season, or time of day relevant? Are personal situations, roles or identies of any of the participants relavent? For example, we have pedestrians - could they be immigrants crossing the border trying to cross a busy freeway? Off-topic question: is this type of questioning considered to be a sledgehammer approach and bad etiquette? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2241 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Is the safety issue of concern the risk of pedestrians being struck by vehicles? Primarily, yes Was Jorge arrested for swerving his vehicle at jaywalkers in order to frighten them into being more careful? No Was he warning people about the presence of police? No Was he in a vehicle a the time of the offence? No Was he on foot? Probably, because he was not in a vehicle If neither, is his location relavent? We have identified four classes of participants in this problem -- cops, pedestrians, drivers, Jorge. Are there any other classes of people involved? Not really Are there any subdivisions within the identified classes that are relavent? I don't think so Is the specific number in each relavent? No Does the crime involve an attempt to communicate to (1) drivers This one, primarily, (2) pedestrians, (3) police, (4) other parties? Could his communication be considered to be a warning? Possibly If so, was the warning to the party at risk of danger? Yes The party posing the risk? Yes Did police directly observe Jorge commit the crime? Yes Did they respond to a complaint? Irrelevant You gave a yesish to type of road and said it was public. Any other qualities of the road relavant? Not really Speed of traffic? one way versus two way? Geographical location? Weather conditions? None of these Is weather, season, or time of day relevant? No Are personal situations, roles or identies of any of the participants relavent? No For example, we have pedestrians - could they be immigrants crossing the border trying to cross a busy freeway? Nothing like this Off-topic question: is this type of questioning considered to be a sledgehammer approach and bad etiquette? I do not consider it bad etiquette at all. Your goal is to try to solve the puzzle by asking yes or no questions, and the more good questions you can think of, the better. What I would consider bad etiquette would be if the questions really had nothing to do with the actual situation, but merely about a method of communicating the response. For example, if someone were to ask, "Does the answer begin with A? B? C? D? ... Z? Is the second letter A? B? C? D? ... Z? Is the third letter... ... Is the last letter A? B? ... Z?" I would probably not answer those questions. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2009 |
You answered earlier that he expected to get arrested -- was his an act of cival disobedience (certainly he was disobeying the law, but was it done in an intentional way to make a political statement)? Was Jorge trying to make an example of himself? Others? Other than arresting Jorge, do the police play any other role in this story? Was Jorge testing the police's ability to detect and/or arrest him for his crime? Primary risk is of pedestrians being hit by vehicles. Are there secondary risks that are relavent (other than the risk of Jorge being arrested)? Assumption check -- I am assuming that Jorge's illegal actions were related to his attempt to communicate to the others and that he did not commit crimes unrelated to that purpose. Is this accurate? I am now thinking of determining specifically what it was about Jorge's actions that made them illegal -- will this be a fruitful line of inquiry? Is the problem with his means of communication? To whom he was communicating? How he was communicating? What he was communicating? When he was communicating? Where he was communicating? The fact that he was communicating at all? In addition to Jorge's action, were others committing illegal acts; i.e., drivers speeding, pedestrians jaywalking? Jorge's physical location relevant? Side of road, middle of road, on an overpass? Earlier, I had asked if he had used accessories or tools and you said I could say that. Will determining what these objects are be helpful? Were any of Jorge's actions bizarre? Was this a crusade for him? Was he displaying a sign? Was his method of communication visual? Audio? Physical? Did he touch any of the people or their cars? Did he throw anything? Seems like I'm missing a wrinkle. Does this story have a quirk or unusual aspect to it? Would it likely appear on a local newscast as a humorous "just when you think you've seen it all" story? I've tried to cast wide net with my questions. Are there important elements that fall completely outside of the scope of the questions asked so far? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2247 Registered: 12-2004 |
You answered earlier that he expected to get arrested -- was his an act of cival disobedience (certainly he was disobeying the law, but was it done in an intentional way to make a political statement)? Noish Was Jorge trying to make an example of himself? No Others? No Other than arresting Jorge, do the police play any other role in this story? No Was Jorge testing the police's ability to detect and/or arrest him for his crime? No Primary risk is of pedestrians being hit by vehicles. Are there secondary risks that are relavent (other than the risk of Jorge being arrested)? Yes. Other things/people being hit by vehicles. Assumption check -- I am assuming that Jorge's illegal actions were related to his attempt to communicate to the others and that he did not commit crimes unrelated to that purpose. Is this accurate? Yes I am now thinking of determining specifically what it was about Jorge's actions that made them illegal -- will this be a fruitful line of inquiry? Yes Is the problem with his means of communication? Yes To whom he was communicating? No How he was communicating? Yes What he was communicating? Noish When he was communicating? Noish Where he was communicating? Yes The fact that he was communicating at all? Noish In addition to Jorge's action, were others committing illegal acts; Yes i.e., drivers speeding, pedestrians jaywalking? Technically, no. If you replace i.e. with e.g., then yes. Jorge's physical location relevant? Yes Side of road, middle of road This is best, on an overpass? Earlier, I had asked if he had used accessories or tools and you said I could say that. Will determining what these objects are be helpful? He was doing a specific action that involves using specific objects. Once you determine what action he was undertaking, this puzzle is just about solved. Were any of Jorge's actions bizarre? That is a subjective question, but his actions were certainly not normal. Was this a crusade for him? That is quite possible Was he displaying a sign? No Was his method of communication visual? This one Audio? Physical? Did he touch any of the people or their cars? No Did he throw anything? No Seems like I'm missing a wrinkle. Does this story have a quirk or unusual aspect to it? Yesish Would it likely appear on a local newscast as a humorous "just when you think you've seen it all" story? It would certainly be "Odd News." I've tried to cast wide net with my questions. Are there important elements that fall completely outside of the scope of the questions asked so far? Not really. This puzzle seems to be nearing its conclusion. Keep trying to fill in the blanks. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2009 |
Some quickies: Thanks for the clarificaion on i.e, vs e.g. I have been misusing that for years. Others were committing illegal acts. Drivers? Pedestrians? Was their crime speeding, jaywalking, obstructing traffic, driving on the wrong side of the road? Using lights incorrectly? Failing to signal? Failing to yield right of way? Vehicle code violations? Were others committing the same crime as Jorge? Was Jorge impersonating an officer and directing traffic in an unauthorized manner? Were the objects used by Jorge intended to be used in the manner in which Jorge was using them? Did he hold these in his hands? Did he gesture with them? Was Jorge singling out particular drivers or pedestrians? Vehicles other than cars involved? Was Jorge's appearance unusual, e.g., manner of dress? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2252 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Some quickies: Thanks for the clarificaion on i.e, vs e.g. I have been misusing that for years. I must confess that I am also guilty of misuse of Latin abbreviations. Others were committing illegal acts. Drivers? This one Pedestrians? Was their crime speeding, jaywalking, obstructing traffic, driving on the wrong side of the road? No Using lights incorrectly? Nope Failing to signal? Negative Failing to yield right of way? This is close Vehicle code violations? Not really Were others committing the same crime as Jorge? No Was Jorge impersonating an officer and directing traffic in an unauthorized manner? No... Were the objects used by Jorge intended to be used in the manner in which Jorge was using them? I would say so Did he hold these in his hands? Probably, unless he has extremely good dexterity with his feet Did he gesture with them? No Was Jorge singling out particular drivers or pedestrians? No Vehicles other than cars involved? No Was Jorge's appearance unusual, e.g., manner of dress? No | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2009 |
Drivers failing to yield, or close to that. Were the drivers running red-lights? Running stop signs? Failing to stop for pedestrians? Failing to adhere to signs? Traffic laws? Were the cars in the normal flow of traffic? Proceeding a forward direction? As to the objects, were these intended to be used for signaling drivers? Flags? Do they have lights? Reflectors? Were they radar guns? Did they include electronics? Would these objects be owned by most people? Mostly by police? Do they have moving parts? Guns? Was Jorge trying to get drivers to slow down? Stop? Speed up? Drive in a different path or direction? Was he standing where the cars he was signaling could hit him? Was it likely that Jorge was irritated with drivers? Pedestrians? Were Jorge's safety concerns directly related to the specific illegal actions being committed by the drivers? Of these topics, which of these is the most relevant to solving the puzzle? The least? - Objects used by Jorge? - Actions of drivers committing illegal acts? - Driver action desired by Jorge? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2269 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere Drivers failing to yield, or close to that. Were the drivers running red-lights? Running stop signs? <b>This one</u> Failing to stop for pedestrians? Failing to adhere to signs? Traffic laws? Were the cars in the normal flow of traffic? Proceeding a forward direction? As to the objects, were these intended to be used for signaling drivers? Yope Flags? No Do they have lights? No Reflectors? No Were they radar guns? No Did they include electronics? No Would these objects be owned by most people? Probably by a great number of people Mostly by police? No Do they have moving parts? It depends Guns? No Was Jorge trying to get drivers to slow down? This one Stop? And this one Speed up? Drive in a different path or direction? Was he standing where the cars he was signaling could hit him? Yope, possible FA Was it likely that Jorge was irritated with drivers? This one Pedestrians? Were Jorge's safety concerns directly related to the specific illegal actions being committed by the drivers? Yes Of these topics, which of these is the most relevant to solving the puzzle? The least? - Objects used by Jorge? - Actions of drivers committing illegal acts? - Driver action desired by Jorge? All of these are very relevant. Just figure out how he tried to encourage drivers to stop at stop signs that resulted in his arrest. | ||
| Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
New member Username: Spackspartan Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2009 |
Did he obsturct traffic? | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2009 |
Ouch -- I posted a lengthy follow-up series of questions here yesterday but they did not appear. Moral to the story -- save to a document before posting. Will re-post as soon as I can retype. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2273 Registered: 12-2004 |
Spackspartan: Did he obsturct traffic? Irrelevant | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2009 |
Okay, heres what I have so far: Jorge does not want people to run or roll through stop signs so he is out there with one or more objects attempting to cause the drivers to slow down or stop and to drive safely. The cue to the drivers is visual he is not throwing the objects or touching the cars. To solve the puzzle we need to figure out what the objects are, and what he is doing with them. Correct so far? No false assumptions? Seems like there should be a standard lateral puzzle method for identifying an object. Here goes: Is the object single or multiple? If multiple objects - Are all the object the same? - Are there various different objects? - Are there relatively few distinct objects, e.g., 5 pots and pans, or an indistinctly large set of objects, e.g., wheelbarrel full of gravel. What reaction is the object likely or intended to produce in the drivers: fear, disgust, laughter, curiosity, guilt, surprise, attention, bewilderment, anger? Is the object manmade? What is its primary purpose tool, decoration, raw material, disposable, weapon, communication, toy, furniture, foodstuff? Is the object typically located indoors? In a residential setting? If indoors, is it associated with a particular room in the house? Is the object made of a single material, or does it consist of multiple materials? Is it a single item, e.g., bucket, or a composite item, e.g., bucket of water? Does the object consist of or include organic material? Wood? Metal? Ceramic? Plastic? Liquids? Gasses? Does the object smell? Make noise? Will it change state or appearance if left outside for a day? Can I buy one of these objects? If so, can I buy it at a grocery store? Hardware store? Walmart? Would it cost less than 50 cents, 5 dollars, 50 dollars, 500 dollars? Does it weigh less than an ounce, pound, 10 pounds, 100 pounds? Is it fragile, solid, brittle, flexible, squishable? You mentioned that moving parts are a maybe? Do some of these objects have moving parts and others do not? Was there writing on the objects? Did he intend that drivers would read the writing? What was he doing with these objects displaying them for the drivers to see? Placing them in the road? Placing them in such a way to direct attention to the stop sign? Waving them? Physical dimensions is the largest dimension less than an inch? 4 inches? A foot? Three feet? Slenderness is the object blunt (like a bowling ball)? Slender like a pencil? Somewhere between? Does it have multiple appendages? Appearance solid or multiple colors? If multiple colors, are the colors separate and distinct? Are these objects associated with children? Males? Females? Students? Would the use of the object by Jorge conceivable produce physical harm or damage? If so, would it be to drivers? cars? pedestrians? or Jorge? Or would the crime primarily cause mental anguish? Was Jorge putting tacks in the road so that car tires would run over them? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2274 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Okay, heres what I have so far: Jorge does not want people to run or roll through stop signs so he is out there with one or more objects attempting to cause the drivers to slow down or stop and to drive safely. The cue to the drivers is visual he is not throwing the objects or touching the cars. To solve the puzzle we need to figure out what the objects are, and what he is doing with them. Correct so far? I would say so. No false assumptions? None that I can see right now. Seems like there should be a standard lateral puzzle method for identifying an object. Here goes: Is the object single or multiple? He probably had at least two objects If multiple objects - Are all the object the same? - Are there various different objects? - Are there relatively few distinct objects, e.g., 5 pots and pans, or an indistinctly large set of objects, e.g., wheelbarrel full of gravel. The objects were different distinct objects that are intended to be used with each other What reaction is the object likely or intended to produce in the drivers: fear, disgust, laughter, curiosity, guilt, surprise, attention This was the intention, bewilderment, anger? Is the object manmade? Yes What is its primary purpose tool Probably this, decoration This is also possible, raw material, disposable, weapon, communication, toy, furniture, foodstuff? Is the object typically located indoors? Yesish In a residential setting? Yesish If indoors, is it associated with a particular room in the house? No Is the object made of a single material, or does it consist of multiple materials? It depends, probably multiple materials. Is it a single item, e.g., bucket, or a composite item, e.g., bucket of water? It depends Does the object consist of or include organic material? It depends Wood? This is quite possible Metal? This is quite possible Ceramic? Plastic? This is possible Liquids? Yes Gasses? Does the object smell? Possibly Make noise? Noish Will it change state or appearance if left outside for a day? Possibly Can I buy one of these objects? Yes If so, can I buy it at a grocery store? Hardware store? This one Walmart Probably this as well ? Would it cost less than 50 cents, 5 dollars, 50 dollars, 500 dollars? Probably between $5 and $50. Does it weigh less than an ounce, pound, 10 pounds, 100 pounds? It depends Is it fragile, solid, brittle, flexible, squishable? It depends You mentioned that moving parts are a maybe? Do some of these objects have moving parts and others do not? I think so Was there writing on the objects? Possibly Did he intend that drivers would read the writing? No What was he doing with these objects displaying them for the drivers to see? Yesish, but beware possible FA Placing them in the road? Yesish Placing them in such a way to direct attention to the stop sign? Yope Waving them? No Physical dimensions is the largest dimension less than an inch? 4 inches? A foot? Three feet? It depends Slenderness is the object blunt (like a bowling ball)? Slender like a pencil? Somewhere between? Does it have multiple appendages? It depends Appearance solid or multiple colors? If multiple colors, are the colors separate and distinct? It depends Are these objects associated with children? Males? This is most likely Females? Students? Would the use of the object by Jorge conceivable produce physical harm or damage? Yesish If so, would it be to drivers? cars? pedestrians? or Jorge? None of these Or would the crime primarily cause mental anguish? No Was Jorge putting tacks in the road so that car tires would run over them? No | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2009 |
The following items are coming to mind -- which ones are closest? - Containers of garbage - Balloons filled with paint - Water balloons - Sprinklers - Containers of gasoline, fuel or chemicals - Bags of stuff I was going to say fireworks but you say there are liquid involved Is the reason we have multiple materials because the object is a container of some kind that holds multiple objects? How was it that the objects would capture the intention of the drivers: - They would fall in the driver's field of view? - They were close to or obscuring the stop sign? - The object was a really weird thing to see in this particular setting? - The object was bright? Trying to understand why you cannot specify the size and appearance -- is it because the story is ambiguous on this point and the objects in question come in a wide range of sizes and appearances? Or is because the object actually can change its size and appearance as it is being used? Are the objects inflatable? Was Jorge moving his garbage cans as part of this story? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2286 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: The following items are coming to mind -- which ones are closest? - Containers of garbage - Balloons filled with paint This is closest - Water balloons - Sprinklers - Containers of gasoline, fuel or chemicals - Bags of stuff I was going to say fireworks but you say there are liquid involved Is the reason we have multiple materials because the object is a container of some kind that holds multiple objects? Noish How was it that the objects would capture the intention of the drivers: - They would fall in the driver's field of view? Yesish - They were close to or obscuring the stop sign? - The object was a really weird thing to see in this particular setting? - The object was bright? Trying to understand why you cannot specify the size and appearance -- is it because the story is ambiguous on this point and the objects in question come in a wide range of sizes and appearances? This-ish Or is because the object actually can change its size and appearance as it is being used? Are the objects inflatable? No Was Jorge moving his garbage cans as part of this story? No | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2009 |
Balloons full of paint were the closest. Was this due to the balloon, or the paint? Did he have a paint ball gun? I'm now concluding he had flexible containers of fluids of some kind. Is this correct? As to the container: Rubber balloon? Plastic bag? Organic casing? Condom? Paper bag? Expandable hose? Was it transparent so its contents would be displayed? Having a hard time reconciling the previous answer that it is made up of all kinds of different materials. As to the fluid: Paint? Ink? Water? Organic fluids? Drinks? Beer? Was the fluid watery? Or viscous? Can I safely drink this fluid? Does the fluid have a single purpose? If so, is it to mark (like paint)? Is it petroleum based? Acidic? Alkaline? I don't seem to be making progress on understanding what he was doing with these things -- he wasn't throwing them. Was he brandishing them in a menacing way? Winding up as though ready to throw them? Spreading the liquid on the road? It seems that if he has an object, there needs to be some focus or target for the object. For example, if he has paint, then perhaps the car or stop sign are targets if he intends to paint them. If he has a rock that he is threatening to throw, then the car is the target. Holding up a sign -- eyeballs would be a target. So, given that he is holding an object, is there a target of the object? Would it be drivers eyeballs, car, pedestrian, road, stop sign, Jorge, some other relevant target? As to the illegality of his action, would it relate to: - Potential for property damage? - Theft? - Obstruction of traffic? - Disturbing the peace? - Disorderly conduct? - Jay-walking or improper location of a pedestrian? - Assault? - Harassment? As to his communication to the drivers, which of the following messages is closest to what Jorge was communicating: - Be aware of this stop sign. This object is to only to get your attention, but will not be used in any harmful way. - Drive safe or else. I am going to use this object to punish you or others. I'm stuck on the throwing business. Did the object never leave his hand? Was there spraying involved? Spreading of the liquid on the road? When he left, was any part of the object left behind? Going back to the question about whether it was possible that the object could cause damage -- you said yes, but not to any of the targets I listed -- would it damage the stop sign, road, environment? Clarifying the wide range of materials, sizes and characteristics of the object -- I already asked about this, but I want to make sure I understand. Did Jorge use objects that consisted of many different materials and characteristics, some with moving parts, others without, some weighing very little, some weighing alot, some that made noise, some that did not, some with multiple colors, some without, some slender, some blunt, some small, some large, etc? Or is it more accurate to say that the object he used comes in many varieties, and the story does not specify which variety of the object he used? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2302 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Balloons full of paint were the closest. Was this due to the balloon, or the paint? The latter Did he have a paint ball gun? Probably not I'm now concluding he had flexible containers of fluids of some kind. Is this correct? Probably not As to the container: Rubber balloon? Plastic bag? Organic casing? Condom? Paper bag? Expandable hose? Was it transparent so its contents would be displayed? Having a hard time reconciling the previous answer that it is made up of all kinds of different materials. FA As to the fluid: Paint? This one Ink? Water? Organic fluids? Drinks? Beer? Was the fluid watery? Or viscous? Can I safely drink this fluid? Does the fluid have a single purpose? Paint has more than one purpose If so, is it to mark (like paint)? This is one Is it petroleum based? Acidic? Alkaline? I don't seem to be making progress on understanding what he was doing with these things -- he wasn't throwing them. Was he brandishing them in a menacing way? No Winding up as though ready to throw them? No Spreading the liquid on the road? Yes It seems that if he has an object, there needs to be some focus or target for the object. For example, if he has paint, then perhaps the car or stop sign are targets if he intends to paint them. If he has a rock that he is threatening to throw, then the car is the target. Holding up a sign -- eyeballs would be a target. So, given that he is holding an object, is there a target of the object? Yes Would it be drivers eyeballs, car, pedestrian, road this one, stop sign, Jorge, some other relevant target? As to the illegality of his action, would it relate to: - Potential for property damage? This-ish - Theft? - Obstruction of traffic? - Disturbing the peace? - Disorderly conduct? - Jay-walking or improper location of a pedestrian? - Assault? - Harassment? As to his communication to the drivers, which of the following messages is closest to what Jorge was communicating: - Be aware of this stop sign. This object is to only to get your attention, but will not be used in any harmful way. This one - Drive safe or else. I am going to use this object to punish you or others. I'm stuck on the throwing business. Did the object never leave his hand? Correct Was there spraying involved? Possibly, but I doubt it Spreading of the liquid on the road? Yes When he left, was any part of the object left behind? Yes Going back to the question about whether it was possible that the object could cause damage -- you said yes, but not to any of the targets I listed -- would it damage the stop sign, road This one, environment? Clarifying the wide range of materials, sizes and characteristics of the object -- I already asked about this, but I want to make sure I understand. Did Jorge use objects that consisted of many different materials and characteristics, some with moving parts, others without, some weighing very little, some weighing alot, some that made noise, some that did not, some with multiple colors, some without, some slender, some blunt, some small, some large, etc? Or is it more accurate to say that the object he used comes in many varieties, and the story does not specify which variety of the object he used? This one | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2009 |
Okay -- lets see what we have at this point -- Is he applying paint to the road surface? Is he painting markings on the road like a road crew would normally do? Is he painting in a cross walk? Words like "Stop Ahead"? A hash-mark threshold at the stop sign? Centerlines or lines defining the shoulder? Was the marking ahead before, adjacent, or after the stop sign (in the direction of the traffic)? Was one of the objects a paint brush or roller to apply the paint? A container of paint? Is there more to the story than he was out painting the road, e.g., he had tried unsuccessfully to get the city to paint the road and took matters into his own hands? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 2304 Registered: 12-2004 |
Davesnothere: Okay -- lets see what we have at this point -- Is he applying paint to the road surface? Yes Is he painting markings on the road like a road crew would normally do? Yes Is he painting in a cross walk? Yope Words like "Stop Ahead"? No... A hash-mark threshold at the stop sign? Not quite Centerlines or lines defining the shoulder? No Was the marking ahead before, adjacent, or after the stop sign (in the direction of the traffic)? Yesish Was one of the objects a paint brush or roller to apply the paint? Most likely A container of paint? Most likely Is there more to the story than he was out painting the road, e.g., he had tried unsuccessfully to get the city to paint the road and took matters into his own hands? Exactly. This is good enough for a.... ************SPOILER******************** This puzzle is based on an event reported as follows by The Indy Channel:
From http://www.theindychannel.com/news/15181455/detail.html. |
