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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people heard the shots and subsequently millions heard them. Half an hour later everybody heard the shot.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shots from a gun?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a shot from a weapon? involving a bullet?
Was the noise recorded and played back to a later time?
Is there an acoustic phenomenon involved?
Is it relevant where the shot was heard first?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shots from a gun? yes

Was it a shot from a weapon? no.. pay particular attention to how i've phrased the puzzle statement involving a bullet? bullets are involved in the puzzle
Was the noise recorded and played back to a later time? yes but be careful
Is there an acoustic phenomenon involved? no
Is it relevant where the shot was heard first? yesish
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people heard shots from a gun?
"Them" = the shots from a gun?
"Them" = "some people"?
"Millions" = millions of people?
"Everybody" = the entire population of the world?
"the shot" = a shot from a gun?
Would the cliche "shot heard 'round the world" make sense in this situation?
"Half an hour later" = half an hour after "millions heard them"?
"The shot" = a small amount of liquor?
"The shot" = an attempt to score in ice hockey?
"The shot" = a nuclear weapons test?
"The shot" = an injection?
"The shot" = one of "the shots"?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people heard shots from a gun? yes
"Them" = the shots from a gun? yes
"Them" = "some people"? no
"Millions" = millions of people? yes
"Everybody" = the entire population of the world? apparently but not literally
"the shot" = a shot from a gun? no
Would the cliche "shot heard 'round the world" make sense in this situation? indeed it's most relevant
"Half an hour later" = half an hour after "millions heard them"? no
"The shot" = a small amount of liquor? no
"The shot" = an attempt to score in ice hockey? no
"The shot" = a nuclear weapons test? no
"The shot" = an injection? no
"The shot" = one of "the shots"? not sure what you mean but i'll say no

superb set of question Doc
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

shot like a film ie shot with a camera?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.

Some people heard the shots and subsequently millions heard them. Half an hour later everybody heard the shot.

There is a difference in number tense here. Do the italicized portions of the puzzle statement refer to the same thing(s)?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should I never send to know for whom the bell tolls? Does it toll for me?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Gavrilo Princip and/or Franz Ferdinand relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

shot like a film ie shot with a camera? no not for this type of shot. Be careful , i'd advise you to watch my answer to Doctapeppa below carefully
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. welcome welcome welcome

Some people heard the shots and subsequently millions heard them. Half an hour later everybody heard the shot.

There is a difference in number tense here.precisely Do the italicized portions of the puzzle statement refer to the same thing(s)? absolutely not
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Gavrilo Princip and/or Franz Ferdinand relevant? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i've just realised that my answer to Martin could be misleading even though i'm answering it correctly. Film is relevant to the puzzle but the shot (singular) is not a shot from a camera
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still would like to know for whom the bell tolls.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It tolls for thee.

Are the Munich Olympics relevant?

Is "the shot" a shot from a gun? The projectile thrown in the shot put? Making contact with the ground?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was somebody shot with a gun? somebody famous?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still would like to know for whom the bell tolls. the title is relevant only in a very cryptic way

It tolls for thee. I'm sure there are lots of bells tolling for Doctap

Are the Munich Olympics relevant? no

Is "the shot" a shot from a gun? The shot singular is not a shot from a gun The projectile thrown in the shot put? no Making contact with the ground? if you mean the shot put then no

Was somebody shot with a gun? yes but to clarify this relates to the shots plural somebody famous? yes but be careful
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Concerning the shots:
Was someone murdered? executed? shot in a war? shot by accident?
Is this something we are likely to know from history? the news?
Is it relevant where this happened? in Europe? America?
Is it relevant when this happened? 21th century? 20th?
"subsequently": seconds? minutes? hours? days? months? years? later?

Concerning the shot:
Something audible but also visible? Something involving an object being accelerated? Or is "shot" a name for something (say a pop song?)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Concerning the shots:
Was someone murdered? yes executed? shot in a war? shot by accident? no to rest
Is this something we are likely to know from history? the news? neither of these things
Is it relevant where this happened? yes for svv of happened in Europe? America? this
Is it relevant when this happened? 21th century? 20th? this for svv of happened
"subsequently": seconds? minutes? hours? days? months? years? later?

Concerning the shot:
Something audible but also visible? yesSomething involving an object being accelerated? i suppose yes but may be misleading Or is "shot" a name for something (say a pop song?)? no
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is film relevant because it is how the millions heard the shots? Because it is how "everybody" heard the shot?

Hmm... "for svv of happened" -- is the event we're talking about fictional? Is a movie involved? Random guess: is the movie The Crow involved?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is film relevant because it is how the millions heard the shots? this one (good question)Because it is how "everybody" heard the shot? so no to this

Hmm... "for svv of happened" -- is the event we're talking about fictional? yes and that's exactly why i used the SVV Is a movie involved? yes Random guess: is the movie The Crow ah i see where you're going with this but alas not the crow
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the shots happened in a film? an American film? a European film?
A film from the 1900ies? 1910ies? ... 1990ies?
The Godfather? The Good the Bad and the Ugly?
So millions saw the film? And half an hour later something else happened involving a shot? Has this shot anything to do with the movie theatre? Was this shot fictional, too?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the shots happened in a film? yes an American film? yes a European film?
A film from the 1900ies? 1910ies? ... 1990ies? 1970s
The Godfather? YES!! The Good the Bad and the Ugly? you've managed to name 2 of my top 5
So millions saw the film? yes And half an hour later something else happened involving a shot? yes but you have to ask half an hour after what exactly Has this shot anything to do with the movie theatre? no Was this shot fictional, too? no
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was somebody shot? and killed? after watching a showing of The Godfather? after watching the Academy Awards ceremony where it was awarded Best Picture? after attending said ceremony?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was somebody shot? yes and killed? yes after watching a showing of The Godfather? after watching the Academy Awards ceremony where it was awarded Best Picture? after attending said ceremony? no to the rest remember the shots that killed someone are fictional and are contained in the movie itself. You then have to work out what link this has to the other shot (singular) which was "heard around the world
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The films I mentioned came first to my mind when I thought of a shooting sceene. The Godfather is also in my top 5.
So we are speaking of The Godfather I?
Is it the famous shooting sceene in the restaurant where Michael takes the gun hidden in the toilet? If not, was it shooting sceene where Sonny died? The shooting of Dons bodyguard?
Was "the shot" a single event? Which happened at a particular place to be found out? at a particular date?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The films I mentioned came first to my mind when I thought of a shooting sceene. The Godfather is also in my top 5. you have very good taste
So we are speaking of The Godfather I? we are
Is it the famous shooting sceene in the restaurant where Michael takes the gun hidden in the toilet? no If not, was it shooting sceene where Sonny died? yes.. did you like my subtle clue in the puzzle statement. Sonny was shot at a toll booth The shooting of Dons bodyguard? no not Paulie. "Leave the gun take the canoli"
Was "the shot" a single event? yes Which happened at a particular place to be found out? it will help to find out where it happened at a particular date? yes
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

NOOOOOOOO! The SUBTLE CLUE that I liked was the ONE IN THE title.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

NOOOOOOOO! The SUBTLE CLUE that I liked was the ONE IN THE title. d'oh
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyway, I don't understand what's going on in this puzzle anymore. Can someone translate/recap/rephrase?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to find out more about the toll booth sceene (good that you mentioned your nice word play, I didn't see it)?
Is anything or anyone of the following relevant:
Connie? Carlo? Connies phone call? Tom? Sonnys car? the other car? the toll both? the guns? the guys who kill him? the way he is shot? the fact that they kick him?

About "the shot":
Did it happen in America? Europe? in a city? outside? in a building?
In the 70s? 80s? 90s? 2000s?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyway, I don't understand what's going on in this puzzle anymore. Can someone translate/recap/rephrase? I'll answer tobasi and if we feel a recap is still needed i'll do it then

Do we need to find out more about the toll booth sceene (good that you mentioned your nice word play, I didn't see it)? yes you do and thanks
Is anything or anyone of the following relevant:
Connie? Carlo? Connies phone call? Tom? Sonnys car? yesish the other car? the toll both? the guns? the guys who kill him? the way he is shot? the fact that they kick him? no to all the rest but you summed up the scene pretty nicely

About "the shot":
Did it happen in America? yes Europe? in a city? yes outside? yes in a building?
In the 70s? 80s? 90s? 2000s? 50's

you're well on the way to solving this
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant part of the sceene before Sonny:
gets into the car? arrives at the toll booth? is shot for the first time? dies? after he dies?
Are any characteristics of the car relevant? is it relevant that he lowers the window? gets out of the car?

So "the shot" happened before the film was made?
Has it something to do with the book the godfather?
Did "the shot" happen in NYC? LA? Chicago? on the east coast? west coast? on a public place?
Has it something to do with: politics? war? the mafia? sports? entertainment? science? an accident?
Did any person make the shot happen? If yes, is his occupation relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant part of the sceene before Sonny:
gets into the car? no arrives at the toll booth? yes is shot for the first time? dies? after he dies? no to rest
Are any characteristics of the car relevant? noish is it relevant that he lowers the window? gets out of the car? no to both

So "the shot" happened before the film was made? yes
Has it something to do with the book the godfather? no
Did "the shot" happen in NYC? yes LA? Chicago? on the east coast? west coast? on a public place? yes
Has it something to do with: politics? war? the mafia? sports? this ...you're almost home entertainment? science? an accident?
Did any person make the shot happen? yes If yes, is his occupation relevant? yes
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgive me if I offend sports fans by suggesting that the teams that follow were all around in the 1950s, but my knowledge of when franchises were founded and/or moved is practically nonexistent, so :-P

Was the person who made the shot associated with basketball? As a player? A member of the NY Knicks?

Was he associated with hockey? As a player? A member of the NY Rangers? NY Islanders? NJ Devils?

Was he associated with football? As a player? A member of the NY Giants? NY Jets?

Was he associated with baseball? As a player? A member of the NY Yankees? NY Mets? Brooklyn Dodgers?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgive me if I offend sports fans by suggesting that the teams that follow were all around in the 1950s, but my knowledge of when franchises were founded and/or moved is practically nonexistent, so :-P i must confess that my 50's sports knowledge is quite limited also

Was the person who made the shot associated with basketball? As a player? A member of the NY Knicks? no to these

Was he associated with hockey? As a player? A member of the NY Rangers? NY Islanders? NJ Devils? and no to these as well

Was he associated with football? no As a player? A member of the NY Giants? but yes the giants were a baseball team in the 50's NY Jets?

Was he associated with baseball? yes As a player? yes A member of the NY Yankees? NY Mets? Brooklyn Dodgers? see above it was the NY Giants

I don't think there's much more point in probing the baseball connection as a simple google search will uncover it. So I'll give you the detail. Baseball's "Shot heard around the world" refers to Bobby Thomson's walk-off home run that clinched the 1951 National League pennant for the New York Giants.

Your job now is to establish what links Bobby's home run and Sonny Corleone's death in the godfather.

p.s. you may notice a slight anomoly when you discover the solution. Next post will solve i'd wager
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I found the link between the two on wikipedia. Can anyone solve without the internet?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can anyone solve without the internet? No, since this forum is on the internet...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Feel free to spoyle this Tobasi
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, when Sonny arrived at the toll booth in his car he was listening to the radio. They were broadcasting the match of the Giants and Bobby's shot. The date of the match and the date of the film scenario did not correspond.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, when Sonny arrived at the toll booth in his car he was listening to the radio. They were broadcasting the match of the Giants and Bobby's shot. The date of the match and the date of the film scenario did not correspond. that's right so it's time for .....

**********Spoiler***************

I was reading an article about famous sports commentaries and came across the commentary for Bobby Thompson's famous home run. I noticed that the game is the same one that Sonny Corleone was listening to as he drove to his death in The Godfather. Now The Godfather is my favourite film of all time and i couldn't resist the temptation to run a puzzle based on the film. And yes Sonny is shot sometime between 1946-1948 while Bobby's home run happened in 1951. So the film makers and actors heard the shots the cinema going public heard them subsequently and everybody heard about Bobby's shot.

Just for fun here's the transcript of the relevant piece of the radio broadcast. The commentator is Russ Hodges


Bobby Thomson... up there swingin'... He's had two out of three, a single and a double, and Billy Cox is playing him right on the third-base line... One out, last of the ninth... Branca pitches... Bobby Thomson takes a strike called on the inside corner... Bobby hitting at .292... He's had a single and a double and he drove in the Giants' first run with a long fly to center... Brooklyn leads it 4-2...Hartung down the line at third not taking any chances... Lockman with not too big of a lead at second, but he'll be runnin' like the wind if Thomson hits one... Branca throws... [audible sound of bat meeting ball]
There's a long drive... it's gonna be, I believe...THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT! THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT! Bobby Thomson hits into the lower deck of the left-field stands! The Giants win the pennant and they're goin' crazy, they're goin' crazy! HEEEY-OH!!!'' [ten-second pause for crowd noise]
I don't believe it! I don't believe it! I do not believe it! Bobby Thomson... hit a line drive... into the lower deck... of the left-field stands... and this blame place is goin' crazy! The Giants! Horace Stoneham has got a winner! The Giants won it... by a score of 5 to 4... and they're pickin' Bobby Thomson up... and carryin' him off the field!



Thanks for playing
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It kinda makes sense now.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should mention that the excerpt of the broadcast Sonny listens to takes place about 30 minutes before Bobby's home run.

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