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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1851
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A man walks into a bar and asks the barman for a glass of water. The barman produces a gun from under the counter and points it at the man who politely says "thank you" and leaves. Some time later he commits suicide.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Albatrosses relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Albatrosses relevant? no and neither are eagles, birdies and bogies
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gun a water pistol?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suicide committer= barman? other man?

Is the suicide commited out of remorse? Shame? Depression? A sudden realization? Fear of capture?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man take the barman's gun?

Did the man have hiccups?

Was the man suffering from nonstop hiccups with only slight breaks?

Did the man actually walk into a bar? Was that a dream? a hallucination?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he commit suicide because he missed his chance at the world record for longest time hiccuping, which was all he had to live for?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Everyone HAM?

Did the barman intend to scare the man? To shoot him? Was the man scared?

Did the man expect the barman to draw the gun? Did he recognize the gun? Did he know the barman? Did the barman know the man? Was there anyone else in the bar?

Are there any other relevant people? Location/time period relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa:

Was the gun a water pistol? no

Gourami:

Suicide committer= barman? other man? this

Is the suicide commited out of remorse? Shame? Depression? this A sudden realization? and maybe a bit of this Fear of capture? no to rest

Bolapara:

Did the man take the barman's gun? no

Did the man have hiccups? yes it's based on the classic

Was the man suffering from nonstop hiccups with only slight breaks? no the hiccups were a one off

Did the man actually walk into a bar? yes Was that a dream? a hallucination? no to these

D Gordon:

Did he commit suicide because he missed his chance at the world record for longest time hiccuping, which was all he had to live for? nice bit of lateral thinking but no

Arek Fu:

Everyone HAM?

Did the barman intend to scare the man? yes To shoot him? Was the man scared? yes thus curing his hiccups

Did the man expect the barman to draw the gun? no Did he recognize the gun? Did he know the barman? Did the barman know the man? Was there anyone else in the bar? the rest are no or irr

Are there any other relevant people? yes Location/time period relevant? location no but yesish to time period

i've based this puzzle on the classic hiccuping man so the solution to the bulk of the puzzle statement is exactly as in the classic. I've added the suicide bit myself . You have to work out why he killed himself
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the suicide prompted by: the hiccups? The cure? Something else the barman did? Something else the man did? Something else occouring in the bar?

Did he have a realisation of some sort? Was he depressed before the gun-in-the-bar incident?

Was the incident in the bar 100% about curing his hiccups? Did the man expect the barman to pull a gun on him? Was he hoping the barman would shoot?

Was the suicide really suicide? That is, did he kill himself deliberately, or was it an accident? Was he merely "attempting" suicide but had no intention of actually killing himself?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the suicide prompted by: the hiccups? The cure? Something else the barman did? Something else the man did? Something else occouring in the bar? none of these but what happened in the bar ultimately led to his suicide

Did he have a realisation of some sort? yes Was he depressed before the gun-in-the-bar incident? probably but wouldn't have to be for the puzzle to work

Was the incident in the bar 100% about curing his hiccups? Did the man expect the barman to pull a gun on him? Was he hoping the barman would shoot? no to all...the bar scene happens exactly as it does in the classic puzzle

Was the suicide really suicide? yes That is, did he kill himself deliberately, or was it an accident? no Was he merely "attempting" suicide but had no intention of actually killing himself? no he meant to kill himself
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he realise something in the bar that lead to his suicide?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ooh just gone past post 666 how scary!
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh no, I posted questions and they disappeared! I believe it was something along the lines of...

If he had never gotten the hiccups, would he have later committed suicide? If he had gotten the hiccups but gone into another bar, would he have later committed suicide? If he had gone into the same bar, but the bartender had tried a different method to get rid of the hiccups, would he have later committed suicide?

Did he realize he shouldn't have stopped hiccuping? Did he realize he knew the bartender from somewhere? Or did he meet the bartender again after the hiccup incident?

Was the man by any chance aware of the original lateral puzzle?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he realise something in the bar that lead to his suicide? no

ooh just gone past post 666 how scary! Cue Twilight Zone theme tune

Oh no, I posted questions and they disappeared! I believe it was something along the lines of...

If he had never gotten the hiccups, would he have later committed suicide? probably not If he had gotten the hiccups but gone into another bar, would he have later committed suicide? ditto If he had gone into the same bar, but the bartender had tried a different method to get rid of the hiccups, would he have later committed suicide? ditto

Did he realize he shouldn't have stopped hiccuping? no Did he realize he knew the bartender from somewhere? not this either Or did he meet the bartender again after the hiccup incident? no let's say he never saw the barman again

Was the man by any chance aware of the original lateral puzzle? NO slight FA which i'll tell you about . For the purpose of this puzzle our hero is the original hiccuping man so he couldn't be aware of the puzzle. This last question is OTRT though
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man ask the barman to cure his hiccups?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man a member of a culture which doesn't recognise the "sudden frights cure hiccups" concept? If yes, was this the realisation he had?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he only realize later that the bartender was trying to cure his hiccups? Or, did he realize that the bartender did not mean to cure his hiccups, but to kill him?

So, in this reality is a puzzle later created around this incident?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin

Did the man ask the barman to cure his hiccups? No. if you are familiar with the classic puzzle then you know all you need to know about the hiccuping incident in the bar

Absinthe

Is the man a member of a culture which doesn't recognise the "sudden frights cure hiccups" concept? irr. it cured him whether he believed in it or not If yes, was this the realisation he had? no

Gourami

Did he only realize later that the bartender was trying to cure his hiccups? No. I've always thought that in the classic puzzle he instantly realised the barman's intention was only to cure his hiccups hence his saying thank you Or, did he realize that the bartender did not mean to cure his hiccups, but to kill him? no not this

So, in this reality is a puzzle later created around this incident? YES... develop this idea
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man realise his life was nothing more than a lateral puzzle?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man realise his life was nothing more than a lateral puzzle? This is essentially why he killed himself but can you guess how he came to this realisation. Good question btw
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more that has happened to him recently that is relevant?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ie did he travel in an elevator with a dwarf? or find a broken fish bowl?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more that has happened to him recently that is relevant? Well sort of .. Ask yourself how he came to feel his life was nothing more than a lateral puzzle and where he would have found this out. No other events outside of this are relevant
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he reading a book?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he reading a book? no
Finno (Finno)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Method of committing suicide relevant?
The kind of gun relevant?
In a bar, he has seen 2 main objects: the bartender and the gun; which one led to his suicide? Is there any other object in the bar relevant to his suicide?
Was the suicide triggered by (or connected to) an incident happened before his visit to the bar?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Method of committing suicide relevant? no
The kind of gun relevant? so no
In a bar, he has seen 2 main objects: the bartender and the gun; which one led to his suicide? the incident as a whole led to his suicide Is there any other object in the bar relevant to his suicide? no
Was the suicide triggered by (or connected to) an incident happened before his visit to the bar? no
Finno (Finno)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he ashamed of the fact that he got scared by the gun?
profession of the man relevant?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he find it strange that the barkeep would point a gun at him instead of just giving him the glass of water he asked for? Did he actually hiccup in front of the barkeep, leading him to wonder how the barkeep knew he had hiccups?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he find it strange that the barkeep would point a gun at him instead of just giving him the glass of water he asked for? i'm sure he did but not relevant? Did he actually hiccup in front of the barkeep, leading him to wonder how the barkeep knew he had hiccups? he did hence the barman knew that pointing the gun at him would scare off his hiccups. You're best bet is to concentrate on what happened after his trip to the bar in particular to do with the incident becoming a lateral puzzle
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, so the incident causes a lateral puzzle to be created, rather than the man himself literally being (or believing himself to be) a fictional creation?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, so the incident causes a lateral puzzle to be created, rather than the man himself literally being (or believing himself to be) a fictional creation? nicely put. In the reality of this puzzle the man is not fictional but a living breathing and sometime hiccuping man. So why does his being the subject of a lateral puzzle ultimately cause him to kill himself
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just a bit of clarification. Our hero who is the subject of the classic lateral puzzle "The Hiccuping Man" is a real person in the context of this puzzle. This seemingly innoculous incident in his life becomes a celebrated Lateral Puzzle and this is known to him. However this fact ultimately leads him to kill himself. He did not read the puzzle in a book (hint hint)
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify: does the man believe himself to be fictional?

Did the man create the puzzle? Did the bartender create the puzzle? Were there any copyright issues?

Does he become famous as "the man from the puzzle", so people started frequently pointing guns at him for a joke? ...which frays his nerves until he can't take it anymore and kills himself?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify: does the man believe himself to be fictional? no

Did the man create the puzzle? no Did the bartender create the puzzle? irr, lets just say that someone who heard the story created the puzzle Were there any copyright issues? no

Does he become famous as "the man from the puzzle", so people started frequently pointing guns at him for a joke? no ...which frays his nerves until he can't take it anymore and kills himself? no but nice thinking
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he remains anonymous while the puzzle becomes well-known?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he remains anonymous while the puzzle becomes well-known? yes that' right.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 4:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his infamy as a lateral puzzle subject cause unfavorable circumstances for him? Was he fully aware of all relevant circumstances when he made his decision to terminate his life?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he by any chance Obvious?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his infamy as a lateral puzzle subject cause unfavorable circumstances for him? \b[no} Was he fully aware of all relevant circumstances when he made his decision to terminate his life? there were no real circumstances
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he by any chance Obvious? No. I do remember Obvious' chilling farewell message on the forum though. Let's hope he is ok.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, he didn't read the puzzle in a book. Did he hear about it from random people? Did he read about it on the Internet? Did everyone discuss it on the radio? Was it the front page story in the New York Times? Was it turned into a made-for-TV movie?
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He read it on the LTPF!!!
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm! I think that that would be so obvious that it would be overlooked!
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brilliant concept for a puzzle Peter!

Did someone else take credit for the puzzle?
Is the original cause for this one-off hiccuping relevant?
Does the puzzle serve as a constant reminder of some incident leading to the lateral situation that has driver him into severe guilt/embarassment/humiliation/sorrow?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, he didn't read the puzzle in a book. Did he hear about it from random people? yesish see below Did he read about it on the Internet? yes Did everyone discuss it on the radio? no Was it the front page story in the New York Times? no Was it turned into a made-for-TV movie? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He read it on the LTPF!!! YES!!!!!.

Hmmm! I think that that would be so obvious that it would be overlooked! i can't believe it took so long

Brilliant concept for a puzzle Peter! Thanks

Did someone else take credit for the puzzle? no
Is the original cause for this one-off hiccuping relevant? no
Does the puzzle serve as a constant reminder of some incident leading to the lateral situation that has driver him into severe guilt/embarassment/humiliation/sorrow? no and none of these would accurately describe his mental condition. It's more about depression
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this kind of like an ontological argument for the existance of this puzzle?

The man reads this exact puzzle on this forum, then happens to get the hiccups, goes into the bar, gets scared out of his hiccups precisely as described in this puzzle, concludes that the puzzle accurately predicts his fate or that he is living the puzzle, becomes depressed about his pending suicide which now seems inevitable to him, and commits suicide as a result? A self-fulfilling prophecy?
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He read it under the heading "Dead men.. etc". Did this tip the balance if he was depresssed to start with?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this kind of like an ontological argument for the existance of this puzzle? after consultation with a dictionary i can say No to this

The man reads this exact puzzle on this forum, then happens to get the hiccups, goes into the bar, gets scared out of his hiccups precisely as described in this puzzle, concludes that the puzzle accurately predicts his fate or that he is living the puzzle, becomes depressed about his pending suicide which now seems inevitable to him, and commits suicide as a result? no not this but it's an excellent idea. He reads the puzzle because he had heard that an incident in his life has become a celebrated lateral puzzle. The puzzle he reads is the classic puzzle not this one A self-fulfilling prophecy? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He read it under the heading "Dead men.. etc". Did this tip the balance if he was depresssed to start with? no not this but to give you a little help, he had been a long term sufferer of a common human mental condition that leads to his suicide but it's not out and out depression although towards the end i'm sure some depressed feelings had crept in.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Long term sufferer of common mental condition -- alcholism? Anxiety? Meloncholy? Hypochondria? Low self-esteem? Addiction? Is it related to the time he spent in bars? Related to hiccups? Related to guns? Related to alchohol? Related to lateral puzzles?

We established that he discovered this website after realizing he was the subject of the classic puzzle, and that had he not done so, he would have not becomed depressed?

He suffers from a mid-life crisis when he realizes that his 15 minutes of fame consists only of being the subject of a puzzle and from there he will drift back into obscurity?

He became addicted to lateral puzzles, leading to his depression?

He read the answers to the other classic puzzles and became depressed that he would not have the opportunity to solve them? (I had this reaction when I read about the guy describing the size of the fish in the telephone booth).

Reading all the puzzles with morbid endings caused him to become depressed?

He attempted unsuccessfully to solve a number of puzzles and got depressed?

Of the scenarios above, which is closest to the solution? Which is farthest away?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Long term sufferer of common mental condition -- alcholism? Anxiety? Meloncholy? Hypochondria? Low self-esteem? this is closest and would serve for the solution Addiction? Is it related to the time he spent in bars? Related to hiccups? Related to guns? Related to alchohol? Related to lateral puzzles? no to the rest

We established that he discovered this website after realizing he was the subject of the classic puzzle, and that had he not done so, he would have not becomed depressed? well he may have done eventually but reading the puzzle hastened the process

He suffers from a mid-life crisis when he realizes that his 15 minutes of fame consists only of being the subject of a puzzle and from there he will drift back into obscurity? no but not far off the right track

He became addicted to lateral puzzles, leading to his depression? no . If that could happen i'd be the most depressed person in the world

He read the answers to the other classic puzzles and became depressed that he would not have the opportunity to solve them? (I had this reaction when I read about the guy describing the size of the fish in the telephone booth). no not this

Reading all the puzzles with morbid endings caused him to become depressed? no . It's the specific puzzle that he stars in that leads to his depression

He attempted unsuccessfully to solve a number of puzzles and got depressed? no

Of the scenarios above, which is closest to the solution? Which is farthest away? i guess the drifting into obscurity is closest but still some work to do.

p.s good set of challenging questions there
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he ashamed of his response to the gun? That he didn't put up a fight in what appeared to be a life threatening situation? That he seemed/was cowardly and would always be so remembered?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he ashamed of his response to the gun? That he didn't put up a fight in what appeared to be a life threatening situation? That he seemed/was cowardly and would always be so remembered? no not this
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 5:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aside from reading the classic puzzle, are there other aspects of visiting or participating on this site that are relevant?

Or from a different angle -- had he read about the puzzle in a book rather than on this site, would he have committed suicide?

If other aspects of this site are not relevant, are there aspects of cyberspace, the web, computing, or the internet that are relevant?

Does he maintain an online personality that is different that his real life personality? Are there any gender identity issues?

Does the classic puzzle present the image of a man that is different than what he aspires to be or hopes that others will perceive him to be?

Rehash of a previously asked question -- does he associate any shame or negative feelings with having had the hiccups? Having been cured? Having others be aware of the situation?

What aspect of the situation led most to his increasing depression:
- The hiccups
- the fact they had been cured by fright
- the fact that he is a subject of the classic puzzle
- His notoriety as the hiccuping man
- The appearance of the puzzle on this forum
- His reading the puzzle on the forum
- His participation on the forum
- Seeing others participate on the forum
- Seeing his story relegated to the classic "already solved" section, and thus no interest displayed by others to solve the puzzle or ask questions about it
- Anything related to it being a classic puzzle rather than a new puzzle
- Anything related to its association with other puzzles, particularly classic puzzles.
- Some other part of the story, completely outside of all of these factors, that we've not even explored yet.

Is there a particular aspect of the classic puzzle that is central or crucial to solving this puzzle? For example, were he to be soliticited afterwards by the NRA to advocate for health benefits of guns to cure hiccups and other ailments, then the gun would be a crucial aspect to explore. Or another way -- if his story and classic puzzle were different, would he still have become depressed at finding himself to be the subject of a classic puzzle on this forum?

Lets break his life into phases and discover which are relevant: (1) Birth until he gets hiccups, (2) hiccups until he walks into bar, (3) time in bar hiccuping, (4) period after hiccups are cured, but before he discovers he is subject of classic puzzle, (5) initial period (first few weeks) from first realization of his starring in the puzzle, (6) final period of his life.

Which periods are most relevant? (1,2,3,4,5,6)?
Do we need to know anything about period 1?
Would it be helpful to subdivide any of these periods further? (1,2,3,4,5,6)?
Are the length of periods 5 or 6 relevant?
Does he engage in behaviors that lead to his increasing depression?

Are there other people that are relevant? Individuals? Groups of people? Are the posters to this forum relevant? People who pose puzzles? People who solve puzzles? People who read the forum? People with no participation in the forum?

Besides starring in a classic puzzle, are there other unusual or unique aspects of the man?

Did he become accustomed to something and then lose access to it? Did he lose access to the internet or to this forum?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aside from reading the classic puzzle, are there other aspects of visiting or participating on this site that are relevant? no

Or from a different angle -- had he read about the puzzle in a book rather than on this site, would he have committed suicide? no

If other aspects of this site are not relevant, are there aspects of cyberspace, the web, computing, or the internet that are relevant? no

Does he maintain an online personality that is different that his real life personality? Are there any gender identity issues? no to both

Does the classic puzzle present the image of a man that is different than what he aspires to be or hopes that others will perceive him to be? hmm have to say yope

Rehash of a previously asked question -- does he associate any shame or negative feelings with having had the hiccups? Having been cured? Having others be aware of the situation? nonre of these

What aspect of the situation led most to his increasing depression:
- The hiccups
- the fact they had been cured by fright
- the fact that he is a subject of the classic puzzle
- His notoriety as the hiccuping man
- The appearance of the puzzle on this forum
- His reading the puzzle on the forum this one
- His participation on the forum
- Seeing others participate on the forum yopishly relevany
- Seeing his story relegated to the classic "already solved" section, and thus no interest displayed by others to solve the puzzle or ask questions about it
- Anything related to it being a classic puzzle rather than a new puzzle for the sake of this puzzle assume that when he read it on the forum it appeared as a normal puzzle with usual questions and answers
- Anything related to its association with other puzzles, particularly classic puzzles.no
- Some other part of the story, completely outside of all of these factors, that we've not even explored yet. no

Is there a particular aspect of the classic puzzle that is central or crucial to solving this puzzle? no For example, were he to be soliticited afterwards by the NRA to advocate for health benefits of guns to cure hiccups and other ailments, then the gun would be a crucial aspect to explore. Or another way -- if his story and classic puzzle were different, would he still have become depressed at finding himself to be the subject of a classic puzzle on this forum? this is hard to answer. His starring in a lateral puzzle didn't make him depressed but reading it did, so had the puzzle been about a different scenario he may not have killed himself

Lets break his life into phases and discover which are relevant: (1) Birth until he gets hiccups, (2) hiccups until he walks into bar, (3) time in bar hiccuping, (4) period after hiccups are cured, but before he discovers he is subject of classic puzzle, (5) initial period (first few weeks) from first realization of his starring in the puzzle, (6) final period of his life.

Which periods are most relevant? (1,2,3,4,5,6)? 5 & 6 are most relevant to his suicide if they include his reading the puzzles.However had the hiccuping incident not occured he might well be still alive (if not entirely in a happy state of mind
Do we need to know anything about period 1? not really other than he suffers from a common mental problem which involves low self esteem
Would it be helpful to subdivide any of these periods further? (1,2,3,4,5,6)? {no you have all you need to solve (i think)}
Are the length of periods 5 or 6 relevant? hmm lets say he reads the puzzle then kills himself a short time later maybe days but not months
Does he engage in behaviors that lead to his increasing depression? no

Are there other people that are relevant? sort of Individuals? yes Groups of people? yes forum members Are the posters to this forum relevant? yes but not specific ones. lets say the person who posted the puzzle and those that ask questions People who pose puzzles? see above People who solve puzzles? ditto People who read the forum? no People with no participation in the forum? no

Besides starring in a classic puzzle, are there other unusual or unique aspects of the man? other than his mental problem which you've yet to bottom out

Did he become accustomed to something and then lose access to it? no Did he lose access to the internet or to this forum? no

phew that was tough. I think i'll give a decent hint .. .Think of the classic puzzle being run as a new puzzle would be then think of some questions that might have been asked and some standard responses
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about the extensive questions -- I'll try to keep them to single digits

It sounds like the experience of seeing other people ask probing questions about him was painful to him -- is this correct? Is it the central factor?

Was it the questions that he minded?
Answers?
Are we to determine specifically what question or answer led to his suicide? Types of questions and answers?

Did he have a mental problem related to receiving attention from others? Being scrutinized? Being judged? Was he paranoid? Is there a specific mental disorder or phobia that we should discover? Did he have a personality disorder?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1884
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Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about the extensive questions -- I'll try to keep them to single digits that's ok . I enjoy a challenge

It sounds like the experience of seeing other people ask probing questions about him was painful to him -- is this correct? not so much the questions but.... Is it the central factor? you're on the right track

Was it the questions that he minded? no
Answers? YES
Are we to determine specifically what question or answer led to his suicide? it will help but they're fairly standard Types of questions and answers? this too . think of ways in which we answer some questions on the forum

Did he have a mental problem related to receiving attention from others? yesish Being scrutinized? yesish .. you're almost there Being judged? this too Was he paranoid? might be an element of this Is there a specific mental disorder or phobia that we should discover? yes and it's a fairly common human deficiency Did he have a personality disorder? I'm not a pychotherapist so i'm not sure if you'd class this as a personality dirorder or not.. sorry

keep at it you're on the last lap
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 213
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the answer that did him in a "Yes"? "No"? "Yope"? "Irrelevant" (that might make me a bit depressed)? Relevant what the answer was?

Did the question have to do with the mental disorder? Did the disorder have to do with the hiccups? With saying "thank you"? With going into a bar?

Was he surprised by the answer? Or just surprised that it was public knowledge?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1885
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Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the answer that did him in a "Yes"? "No"? "Yope"? "Irrelevant" this one(that might make me a bit depressed )well it did for him Relevant what the answer was? yes.. the was more than one question with the response irrelevant

Did the question have to do with the mental disorder? no Did the disorder have to do with the hiccups? no With saying "thank you"? no With going into a bar? no

Was he surprised by the answer? not really they probably confirmed what he always suspected Or just surprised that it was public knowledge? no not this

getting very warm now
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all the questions about him as a person have the answer irrelevant, which destroyed his already low self esteem?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1886
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Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all the questions about him as a person have the answer irrelevant, which destroyed his already low self esteem? Excellent job Martin you put it very succinctly....


************SPOILER********************
I've always wanted to run a puzzle based on a classic and I hope you enjoyed this effort.

Consider a man Jeff who is walking down the street and gets the hiccups which won't go away. Spotting an open Bar he goes in and asks the barman for a drink of water to cure those annoying hiccups. Well you all know the rest the barman as cool as a cuecumber pulls out a gun and points it at the man thus scaring his hiccups away. The man realising the barman's intention thanks him and leaves. That's the bit you all know , now for the bit you don't or didn't know until today.

Jeff really exists and the incident actually happened. He told some friends about it one of whom happened to be a member of an Internet forum called "The Lateral Thinking Puzzle Forum" who says to himself "Ha Hah this will make a great puzzle" and duly posts it and has great enjoyment watching everyone tip around the answer for ages before someone really clever (possibly Woubit, Woodworm or Admin)solves it.

Now Jeff strangely enough has another friend who is also a member of the forum who tells him that his hilarious hiccups story has been immortalised forever on an internet forum as a lateral puzzle and that he should check it out.

At this stage I should tell you that Jeff has a chronic inferiority complex and very low self esteem so naturally he is delighted to think that he, yes he, is the subject of much comment and conjecture from people all over the world.

He logs onto the forum and reads the puzzle knowing that this will give his flagging self confidence a boost.

But oh dear someone(whom shall remain nameless) in an attempt to solve the puzzle had posted a series of questions along these lines:

Is the man's occupation relevant?
Are the man's political beliefs relevant?
His Hobbies?
His friends?
His likes & dislikes?
His Family?
His Age?
His appearance?

You can imagine Jeff's devastation when the puzzle host (also to remain nameless but you know who you are)answered each one of the questions with a bolded IRRELEVANT.

Needless to say the man saw this and thought "Nothing I do or say counts for anything in this world I'm just irrelevant" This leads to a bout of depression and some time later Jeff, in the depths of dispair kills himself.

Hope nobody feels to guilty about Jeff's death given that we all caused it. At least he has achieved a certain immortality in death


thanks to all who played this was a very enjoyable puzzle to host
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 219
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very nice, I suspected I was on the right trail with "irrelevant." I have a puzzling friend who hates the answer irrelevant. He will always say: "Nothing's irrelevent! Who are you to say what's irrelevant? Just answer the question!"

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