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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought that Lloyd was exceptionally conscientious but he was actually exceptionally smart, & NOT because he accomplished with little effort something I thought he had worked hard at. How come??
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because he backed into parking spaces, always considering the possibility of being suddenly sent on a priority call and permitting him to burnout once instead of having to burnout backwards and then again when shifting from reverse into drive, possibly breaking the transmission in the poor vehicle?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 4:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Because he backed into parking spaces, always considering the possibility of being suddenly sent on a priority call and permitting him to burnout once instead of having to burnout backwards and then again when shifting from reverse into drive, possibly breaking the transmission in the poor vehicle?no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of these relevant about Lloyd:
his age? his gender? his nationality? his colour? his religion? his work? his hobbies? his pets? his family? his romantic associations? his education? his income? his physical appearence? his friends? his politics?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 8:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are any of these relevant about Lloyd:
his age? yes his gender? no his nationality? yes his colour? no his religion? no his work? yes his hobbies? no his pets? no his family? no his romantic associations? no his education? yeshis income? no his physical appearence? no his friends? no his politics? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he one of your students?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was he one of your students? yes
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Lloyd a 24-year-old Swedish chef in 15th grade? If not, would the puzzle work under those circumstances?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His age -> more than the average age of your class? less?

His nationality -> US? Asian? African? European?

Was he working a part-time job(s)?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there a relevance to any of these other than that he was one of your students - his age? his nationality? his work? his education? should we be pursuing any of these further?

did you think he was conscientious because of his academic work? because of the 'assignments' that he handed in? because of his exam marks? because of his academic progress over time?

does the puzzle relate to something he achieved? something academic? something in his personal life away from academia?

does it relate to something you saw him do? on more than one occasion?

does it relate to soemthing you heard about him from a third party?

is it relevant how you found out he was being smart? did you see something? hear something? read something?

his conscientiousness - to do with handing work in? timekeeping? helping others? employment outside college?

did he have some sort of employment that is relevant? that would usually be chosen by someone who was conscientious? perhaps a 'helping other people' type job? but you found out he took it for a reason that benefits him ?

is he fooling anyone? is he acting immorally?

is he being efficient with his time? his money?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is there a relevance to any of these other than that he was one of your students - his age? His age is relevant only because he has to be old enough to be a college student his nationality? yes his work? no, except that he's a student his education? ditto should we be pursuing any of these further? nationality

did you think he was conscientious because of his academic work? yes because of the 'assignments' that he handed in? yes because of his exam marks? nobecause of his academic progress over time? no

does the puzzle relate to something he achieved? yessomething academic? yesish something in his personal life away from academia? yes

does it relate to something you saw him do? yes or yesish on more than one occasion? irrel

does it relate to soemthing you heard about him from a third party?in facr no, but I could have learned something crucial from a third party

is it relevant how you found out he was being smart? several ways would be possibledid you see something?see next answer but one} hear something? yes read something? yes

his conscientiousness - to do with handing work in? yesishtimekeeping? nohelping others? noemployment outside college? no

did he have some sort of employment that is relevant? no that would usually be chosen by someone who was conscientious? no perhaps a 'helping other people' type job? but you found out he took it for a reason that benefits him ? no

is he fooling anyone?noish is he acting immorally? no

is he being efficient with his time?possibly his money? irrel
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The solution has to do with a paper the student wrote for my course.
And here are some answers to questions I overlooked. (Sorry!)
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 12:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was Lloyd a 24-year-old Swedish chef in 15th grade? If not, would the puzzle work under those circumstances?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 4:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
His age -> more than the average age of your class? irrel less? irrel. As I said, all that's relevant is that he was an age where he could be my srudent, e.g., not 4.

His nationality -> US? no Asian? possibly African? possiblyEuropean? possibly. The actual student was Chinese but, as I've indicated, there are other nationalities that would also work.

Was he working a part-time job(s)? irrel
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the way he wrote the paper relevant? The subject of the paper? His writing style?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 3:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the way he wrote the paper relevant? See next answer but one The subject of the paper? noHis writing style? yes
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he write everything in the second-person? (e.g., "You are wondering why someone like Lloyd would be against communism. You quickly discover that the answer to your question is right before your eyes...")
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Did he write everything in the second-person? (e.g., "You are wondering why someone like Lloyd would be against communism. You quickly discover that the answer to your question is right before your eyes... no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was english his first language? relevant?

was he smart because of how well he managed to articulate his thoughts in a language other than his native one?

was he smart because he had read a lot of relevant material? in english? in his native language?

had he found a smart way to cope with a language difficulty?

had he first written his assignment in a language other than english?

was he smart in the way that he had figured something out? in his understanding of the issues of the assignment? in his use of innovative ways of producing the assignment? in his ability to find solutions to his problems? in finding a way to bypass a difficult problem?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 10:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was english his first language? no relevant? yes

was he smart because of how well he managed to articulate his thoughts in a language other than his native one? Yes, but there's still the question of why I though he was especially conscientious

was he smart because he had read a lot of relevant material? noin english? noin his native language? no

had he found a smart way to cope with a language difficulty? no or noish

had he first written his assignment in a language other than english? no. You think I can read Chinese??

was he smart in the way that he had figured something out? in his understanding of the issues of the assignment? in his use of innovative ways of producing the assignment? in his ability to find solutions to his problems? in finding a way to bypass a difficult problem? none of these
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so we've now got why you thought he was exceptionally smart - because he wrote well in a language other than his first?

reasons for thinking him conscientious -
did you think he spent an exceptional amount of time doing the assignment? read an exceptional number of source documents? used very hard-to-get sources? spoke to a lot of people? took a lot of time writing it down? gave it in very early?

had you thought that he had got someone to translate the sources for him? or translate his assignment?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
so we've now got why you thought he was exceptionally smart - because he wrote well in a language other than his first? That's just part of it; after all lots of people write well in languages other than their first. You have to be pretty smart to do this, but you have to be extroadunarily smart to. . . .

reasons for thinking him conscientious -
did you think he spent an exceptional amount of time doing the assignment? noread an exceptional number of source documents? no used very hard-to-get sources? no spoke to a lot of people? notook a lot of time writing it down? nogave it in very early? no

had you thought that he had got someone to translate the sources for him? no or translate his assignment? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOOPERRRRALERRRTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!
was he smart because of how well he managed to articulate his thoughts in a language other than his native one? Yes, but there's still the question of why I though he was especially conscientious My answer should have been: That's just part of it; after all lots of people write well in languages other than their first. You have to be pretty smart to do this, but you have to be extraodinarily smart to. . . .
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: It's relevant that I'm a "grammar Nazi."}
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his grammar impeccable? So that you thought he had worked hard at it? But he was actually smart? But had still accomplished this with great effort rather than little?

You must be extraordinarily smart to...

Publish?
Get not a single bit of punctuation wrong?
Have no run-on sentences? Or passive voice?

Was he Chinese? Did his first language have something to do with how he wrote? For example, did he write in a style similar to his native language? Did he write his paper in his first language, then translate it to English? Without any slipups? Or atypical bits? That make it obvious it was translated?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Was his grammar impeccable? no So that you thought he had worked hard at it? yope But he was actually smart? yes But had still accomplished this with great effort rather than little? probably

You must be extraordinarily smart to...

Publish? ARE YOU KIDDING??!!
Get not a single bit of punctuation wrong? no
Have no run-on sentences? no Or passive voice? no

Was he Chinese? yes Did his first language have something to do with how he wrote?yesish For example, did he write in a style similar to his native language? no Did he write his paper in his first language, then translate it to English? very unlikelyWithout any slipups? yes Or atypical bits? yesThat make it obvious it was translated? yes, i.e., his paper did not seem translated (& probably wasn't)
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the grammar of the piece of work actually rather poor?

did he write in colloquial language in some way? which indicated a superb understanding of English although not his first language? and at first you thought this was actually an example of rather poor English because it was his second language? but actually he had deliberately written in this manner with apparent poor grammar? for some effect to do with the content of his work?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 9:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was the grammar of the piece of work actually rather poor? no

did he write in colloquial language in some way? no which indicated a superb understanding of English although not his first language? yesand at first you thought this was actually an example of rather poor English because it was his second language? No, but you're ORT but actually he had deliberately written in this manner with apparent poor grammar? nofor some effect to do with the content of his work? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he make some sort of deliberate mistake in his work? some sort of deliberate grammar mistake?

did he actually write something that was exactly correct? but many English speakers would not have done so well?

is spelling relevant? punctuation? apostrophes? are quotations relevant? references? reported speech? bullet points? font?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he chose the topic for his paper himself?
Did he understand or interpret the task in some other way than you intended? which made it much easier for him to solve it? and after re-reading the task you saw that he was right in his interpretation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 7:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
did he make some sort of deliberate mistake in his work? some sort of deliberate grammar mistake? no

did he actually write something that was exactly correct? noish but many English speakers would not have done so well? Wel, he did write better than most native speakers

is spelling relevant?yesish punctuation? ditto apostrophes? dittoare quotations relevant? no references? no reported speech? no bullet points? huh?font? no
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he chose the topic for his paper himself? irrel
Did he understand or interpret the task in some other way than you intended? nowhich made it much easier for him to solve it? no and after re-reading the task you saw that he was right in his interpretation? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 3:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you expect his paper to be worse than it was before you read it? Better? Did he have a better, or worse, command of English than you expected? Does it have anything to do with the topic of his paper? Did you have to read it, or a section of it, twice? Were you thinking "Wait, that's wrong...(continue-reading) ... oh, I see what he meant now?" Is the entire paper relevant, or just a part of it? If the latter, the introduction, body, or conclusion? Is the type of assignment relevant (argumentative essay, etc)?

Would another teacher have come to the same conclusion? If he had written his paper in Chinese, in China, for a Chinese professor, would the puzzle statement still be valid? Is specialist knowledge about English, writing, or teaching involved? Specialist knowledge of any sort?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just to be clear:

were there any grammatical mistakes in what he wrote?
was it the case that you thought there was a mistake but actually he was correct?
was his grammar better than yours?
is the issue of 'English' English versus 'American' English relevant here?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 3:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did you expect his paper to be worse than it was before you read it? no Better? no Did he have a better, or worse, command of English than you expected? neitherishDoes it have anything to do with the topic of his paper? no Did you have to read it, or a section of it, twice? no Were you thinking "Wait, that's wrong...(continue-reading) ... oh, I see what he meant now?" noIs the entire paper relevant, or just a part of it? the formerIf the latter, the introduction, body, or conclusion? Is the type of assignment relevant (argumentative essay, etc)? noish

Would another teacher have come to the same conclusion? yes If he had written his paper in Chinese, in China, for a Chinese professor, would the puzzle statement still be valid? only with other changes Is specialist knowledge about English, writing, or teaching involved? no Specialist knowledge of any sort? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 8:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
just to be clear:

were there any grammatical mistakes in what he wrote? yes
was it the case that you thought there was a mistake but actually he was correct? no
was his grammar better than yours? oooooh--I don't think so
is the issue of 'English' English versus 'American' English relevant here? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the grammatical mistake work (or fit what he was trying to say), when read in context?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Did the grammatical mistake work (or fit what he was trying to say), when read in context? no
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is plagiarism relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 168
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 5:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is plagiarism relevant? no
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 5:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the time it took him to reach a certain level of proficiency in a new language relevant?

Is the dissimilarity between his native language and English relevant?

Are there more than two languages involved?

Does this have to do with the combined challenge of mastering difficult course material in a non-native language?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4310
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 5:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the time it took him to reach a certain level of proficiency in a new language relevant? Yes. You're very ORT

Is the dissimilarity between his native language and English relevant? yes

Are there more than two languages involved? no

Does this have to do with the combined challenge of mastering difficult course material in a non-native language? yesish, but why call a hardship a challenge, as if it were something desirable & exciting?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Post Number: 91
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why call a hardship a challenge, as if it were something desirable & exciting? I'm sorry, you will need to reformulate your question so that it can be answered as either Yes or No. Yuk, yuk, yuk.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 92
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My view of the student is that he is experiencing a challenge versus a hardship because he is bettering himself through education in a certain discipline, as well as quickly learning a second language, both of which will greatly enhance his future. Is there further hardship or detail that I need to uncover?

Is this the solution: a first or second generation Chinese student submitted a paper for your class. It demonstrated a rigorous understanding of the course material and reflected considerable effort on his part. It was also written in English, a language that is quite different from his native Chinese language (I'm not familiar with the different Chinese dialects). He is not yet or just recently fluent in English, yet the paper was well written in his non-native language. So both his intelligence and diligence were evident in the paper he had submitted.

Is this it, or am I still missing a key element?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4315
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 92
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
My view of the student is that he is experiencing a challenge versus a hardship because he is bettering himself through education in a certain discipline, as well as quickly learning a second language, both of which will greatly enhance his future. Is there further hardship or detail that I need to uncover? No. I was just expressing my general dislike of sugar-coating hardships, even those from which one may eventually benefit, by calling them challenges.I hate plane travel & so it's a hardship for me, even though it enables me to go to nice places. It is not a "challenge"!!

Is this the solution: a first yes or second generation no Chinese student submitted a paper for your class. It demonstrated a rigorous understanding of the course material yes but irreland reflected considerable effort on his part not necessarily. It was also written in English, a language that is quite different from his native Chinese language yes (I'm not familiar with the different Chinese dialects). He is not yet no or just recently fluent in English yes, yet the paper was well written in his non-native language yes. So both his intelligence yope and diligence were evident in the paper he had submitted no.

Is this it, or am I still missing a key element?When I read the paper, I thought he was reasonably smart but not extraordinarily so. I LATER formed the impression that he was very diligent but learned that he was actually very, very intelligent. (He was probably, but not necessarily, very diligent as well.)HINT: When I returned his paper, he asked me a question, which I interpreted as evidence of diligence. He then added a surprising bit of information, which made me realize that he was exceptionally intelligent.Find out the question & the bit of information!
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It sounds like getting the rest of this puzzle is going to be a hardship.

Did his question or the information he added pertain to the course material? To the content of the paper?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4316
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

avesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 6:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
It sounds like getting the rest of this puzzle is going to be a hardship.Noooooooo--puzzles are supposed to be hard so it'll be a CHALLENGE!!

Did his question or the information he added pertain to the course material? noTo the content of the paper? no
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 101
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 5:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see -- you've given us a pretty big hint -- it would have taken me a while to figure out that your impressions were based on the conversation that occurred after the paper was returned.

Seems like we need to narrow down the question asked. Did it pertain to his grade? Comments you had written on the paper? Did it have anything to do with the paper at all? Teaching or learning methods? Was his question personal? Would it be helpful to know what the course is? What the paper was about?

As to why you originally thought he was diligent -- was it based on effort he might have previously expended? About work he appeared willing to do in the future? About a seeming willingness to approach academics with rigor? A request for further clarification and depth on some topic?

As to the evidence of his intelligence -- did it relate to his command of the language? His command of the course material? Did he disclose new information that made you realize that he had more capability than first thought?

Here's an example: he makes a comment that indicates that he actually speaks six languages, instead of two. Or that his timeframe for learning English was much shorter than you had realized? Or that he had completed the paper with very little effort, or while engaging in some other demanding pursuit? Any of these close or on the right track?

Finally, would I need to have a certain level of intelligence or knowledge to appreciate his intelligence? For example, while I don't speak multiple languages, I can understand that someone who speaks six languages is intelligent (at least in the verbal dimension). On the other hand, I would need to know something about physics to appreciate a profound comment about physics. Which of these two examples is closest?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4320
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 101
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 5:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Let's see -- you've given us a pretty big hint -- it would have taken me a while to figure out that your impressions were based on the conversation that occurred after the paper was returned.

Seems like we need to narrow down the question asked. You're right Did it pertain to his grade?no Comments you had written on the paper? yesish Did it have anything to do with the paper at all? yesTeaching or learning methods? no Was his question personal? No. (I make it clear at the outset that I don't answer personal questions from students.)Would it be helpful to know what the course is? noWhat the paper was about? no

As to why you originally thought he was diligent -- was it based on effort he might have previously expended? no About work he appeared willing to do in the future? no About a seeming willingness to approach academics with rigor? yesishA request for further clarification and depth on some topic? yesish

As to the evidence of his intelligence -- did it relate to his command of the language? yes His command of the course material? no Did he disclose new information that made you realize that he had more capability than first thought? yes

Here's an example: he makes a comment that indicates that he actually speaks six languages, instead of two. noOr that his timeframe for learning English was much shorter than you had realized? Yes--that's it!! Or that he had completed the paper with very little effort, or while engaging in some other demanding pursuit? noAny of these close or on the right track? yes!!

Finally, would I need to have a certain level of intelligence or knowledge to appreciate his intelligence? Anyone smart enough to participate in this forum is smart enough to appreciate this student's intelligence For example, while I don't speak multiple languages, I can understand that someone who speaks six languages is intelligent (at least in the verbal dimension). On the other hand, I would need to know something about physics to appreciate a profound comment about physics. Which of these two examples is closest? the first

******* SPOLIER *****************
I am a "grammar (& usage) Nazi" & proud of it, i.e., I'm always warning my students against saying things like "different than" or "Everybody has their own idea"& I criticize students who write that way (although I don't lower their grades, as I teach philosophy, not English composition. So when Lloyd, upon getting his paper back, graded & with comments, asked me "How's my English?" I told him that he had made only one grammatical error (far fewer than most students) & that I was pleased to find a student who cared about writing proper English. Imagine my surprise when he told me that he had been speaking & writing English for only 3 years, since his family had come to America from Taiwan. His English was so good that I took it for granted that he was a conscientious American student who was asking about his grammar!Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Davesnotthere, & please direct your clever lateral minds to my new puzzle at the bottom of the page.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Username: D_gordon

Post Number: 493
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is your objection to "everybody has their own idea" the usage of singular they, or is it something else that I'm not noticing? If it's the former, I must disagree. Considering that it was good enough for Shakespeare, Chaucer, Austen, and more, was only deprecated because some grammarians wanted to apply the rules of Latin to English (which is much more Germanic than Romance in origin), and is very widely used today, I don't see a problem with it. (Besides, English needs to quickly acquire a gender-neutral pronoun.)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4336
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I object to the singular 'everyone' because of the logic of the term ('every one'), which I consider much more important than the "need" for gender neutrality. Besides, people who care about gender neutrality can often circumvent the problem by using 'all' instead of 'everyone.' (E.g., "All people have their own ideas.")

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