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Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After they headed over to the line, he looked but couldn't find his parents anywhere.

This one might be a bit hard so i hope you all suffer greatly from it. (and by suffer i mean enjoy it immensely and spend countless sleepless nights trying to figure it out)
Anneja (Anneja)
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Post Number: 32
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

40?
is the line a state line?
is he H/A/M?
did his parents leave him?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 74
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will say for the sake out everyone's wit...think out there, way out there...

40? Hahahahahahaha...No.
is the line a state line? No.
is he H/A/M? Yes. No. Yes.
did his parents leave him? Define 'leave him'.
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Post Number: 344
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They: his parents? "He" plus others? A third party?

Line: A literal line, drawn in chalk or tape or some other physical marker? Some other physical line that isn't marked, such a country border? A metaphorical line, as in "you've crossed the line with that remark, mister"?

Looked: Glanced? Scanned? Searched? Is he looking at a room? Something outside? The internet or a newspaper?

Is he expecting to find his parents? Are they alive? Does he think they're alive?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would like to apologise for forgetting to tag the title with my name.

They: his parents? Yes. "He" plus others? No. A third party? No.

Line: A literal line, drawn in chalk or tape or some other physical marker? No. Some other physical line that isn't marked, Yes. such a country border? Not this though. A metaphorical line, as in "you've crossed the line with that remark, mister"? No.

Looked: Glanced? Scanned? Searched? <-This one. Is he looking at a room? Yes. Something outside? No. The internet or a newspaper? No.

Is he expecting to find his parents? Yes. Are they alive? No. Does he think they're alive? Yes.
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Post Number: 345
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How long after they headed to the line is he looking? A few seconds? A few minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades?

Is he specifically looking for his parents? Is his search a purely visual one, or is he also opening doors, rooting through papers, etc.? Is he expecting to find them in person, or merely evidence of them? Is he looking for them because he fears something has happened to them?

Is the manner in which they died relevant? If so: Suicide? Murder? Accident? Old age? Is anyone other than "him" and his parents relevant If he can't find them anywhere, then does that mean their bodies have been moved? Or he's just looking in the wrong place?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Post Number: 347
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoops, I missed a question mark in this sentence: Is anyone other than "him" and his parents relevant? If he can't find them anywhere, then does that mean their bodies have been moved?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey there, Flemmmmy.

Did they 'passing the line' mean they died?
Do we require any special knowledge for this puzzle?
Is the number 40 relevant to the puzzle at all?
I keep thinking about Moses in the basket. Is he relevant?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forget the first question, I mis-read it. ***
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Absinthe

How long after they headed to the line is he looking? A few seconds? A few minutes? This. Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades?

I would like to hereby instate the LTPF List of "times". I propose this list run as follows: seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, other large variations of years (ex. centuries). I know i have used this same list several times in the last day or so and absinthe just used it again. Your thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea?

Is he specifically looking for his parents? Yes. Is his search a purely visual one, <-This. or is he also opening doors, rooting through papers, etc.? No on these others. Is he expecting to find them in person, <-This. or merely evidence of them? <-This as well though. Is he looking for them because he fears something has happened to them? Not initially

Is the manner in which they died relevant? Yes. If so: Suicide? Murder? This. Accident? Old age? Is anyone other than "him" and his parents relevant? Yes. If he can't find them anywhere, then does that mean their bodies have been moved? In a way, Yes. Or he's just looking in the wrong place? No.

Pikachizzle

Did they 'passing the line' mean they died? Ummm...not sure what your asking. Try rephrasing and possibly defining some things.
Do we require any special knowledge for this puzzle? It would be helpful once all the appropriate information has been gathered but one could answer this to an acceptable level without the knowledge. It however can't be solved in its entirety without it. I do truly believe it is knowledge you all have thought.
Is the number 40 relevant to the puzzle at all? It's a lot like your titles, while the #40 has no relevance to the puzzle, the question that it is the answer for is.
I keep thinking about Moses in the basket. Is he relevant? Not at all.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

[morbid questions ahead]
Is the Holocaust relevant?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are their bodies missing because their death was caused by something which would, in killing them, move or destroy their bodies -- say, walking into a car-crusher, or drowning at sea?

Are their bodies intact or destroyed?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Holocaust relevant? Not at all.

I'm going to throw a stone out there and see if i can kill any birds by saying that it is not related to any real life events from history.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are their bodies missing because their death was caused by something which would, in killing them, move or destroy their bodies Yes. -- say, walking into a car-crusher, or drowning at sea? None of these.

Are their bodies intact or destroyed? Indeterminable
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm. It's only been a few minutes since their son saw them, (I'm assuming the son witnessed them move to the line?) so they didn't burn to death, correct? Were they blown to bits by a bomb?

Are they police officers investigating a crime scene?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm. It's only been a few minutes since their son saw them, Correct. (I'm assuming the son witnessed them move to the line?) He last saw them moving toward the line. so they didn't burn to death, correct? Correct. Were they blown to bits by a bomb? No.

Are they police officers investigating a crime scene? No.
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You worded it as "moved towards" the line: is their method of transport relevant? Did they walk? Run? Ride? Drive? Were carried? By conveyor belt?

Are they in a slaughter house?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Damn TMI. I need to be more careful.

You worded it as "moved towards" the line: is their method of transport relevant? Yes. Did they walk? This. Run? Ride? Drive? Were carried? By conveyor belt?

Are they in a slaughter house? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they know that they're going to die?
Are the parents murdered by someone they know?
Someone 'he' knows?
'Him'?
Did they fall down a well / deep hole?
Were they dragged by a moving vehicle?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they know that they're going to die? No.
Are the parents murdered by someone they know? No.
Someone 'he' knows? No.
'Him'? <-who is this referring to
Did they fall down a well / deep hole? No.
Were they dragged by a moving vehicle? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the boy the murderer?
Is a body of water relevant?
Did they tell him not to follow them to the line?
Did they know that they were moving to the line?
Did the boy know?
Is the line something that one would normally associate with danger or death?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They're walking: because they're indoors? Because they're nervous? Because they're relaxed? Because they're carrying something? Because they're injured? Because the mother is pregnant? Because it would be socially inappropriate to run or jog?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pikachizzle

Is the boy the murderer? No.
Is a body of water relevant? No.
Did they tell him not to follow them to the line? Yes.
Did they know that they were moving to the line? Yes.
Did the boy know? Yes.
Is the line something that one would normally associate with danger or death? No.

Absinthe

They're walking: because they're indoors? Yes.
Because they're nervous? No.
Because they're relaxed? Yes.
Because they're carrying something? Yes.
Because they're injured? No.
Because the mother is pregnant? No.
Because it would be socially inappropriate to run or jog? Yes.
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they in a museum? A hospital? A school? Visiting a friend?

Is it relevant what they're carrying?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they in a museum? A hospital? A school? Visiting a friend? None of these.

Is it relevant what they're carrying? Yes
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the parents think that they're in any sort of danger?
Are they allowed to bring their child with them toward the line?
Would bringing the child with them put him at risk?
Are any of them imprisoned?
Absinthe (Absinthe)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they consider the line to be a line or border, or are you simply describing it as a line for the purposes of the puzzle?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the parents think that they're in any sort of danger? No.
Are they allowed to bring their child with them toward the line? Yes.
Would bringing the child with them put him at risk? Not normally but in this instance he would have met the same fate as his parents.
Are any of them imprisoned? No.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they consider the line to be a line This. or border, or are you simply describing it as a line for the purposes of the puzzle? See above.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 3:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there other adults moving toward the line?
Children?
Were they also murdered?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 3:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there other adults moving toward the line? Yes.
Children? Yes.
Were they also murdered? Yes.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there other adults moving toward the line?
Children?
Were they also murdered?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woops.
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any plays on the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything going on in the title?

Were his parents killed during their move toward the line? as they reached the line? after they reached the line? Did they ever reach the line? Did they know that they were going to be murdered?

Did the person/people/entity that killed the people moving toward the line plan to kill people? Would any people have sufficed? Would any people who were in that place have sufficed? Or were these people chosen specifically? Were any of the people killed "collateral damage"? That is, were some of them being targetted by the murderer(s) and others were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The line: You said it is not marked, correct? Is it a line as in what those speaking British English term a queue (that thing you wait in before you can go somewhere or do something)?

The thing the parents are carrying: Is it living? dead? never alive? Are any of the other people moving toward the line carrying something similar? Are all of them? Is it a requirement for those moving toward the line?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any plays on the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything going on in the title? No.

Were his parents killed during their move toward the line? No. as they reached the line? No. after they reached the line? <-This. Did they ever reach the line? Yes. Did they know that they were going to be murdered? No.

Did the person/people/entity that killed the people moving toward the line plan to kill people? No. Would any people have sufficed? Yes. Would any people who were in that place have sufficed? Yes. Or were these people chosen specifically? No. Were any of the people killed "collateral damage"? All of them were. That is, were some of them being targeted by the murderer(s) None were being targeted. and others were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Essentially all of them were this.

The line: You said it is not marked, correct? Correct. Is it a line as in what those speaking British English term a queue (that thing you wait in before you can go somewhere or do something)? This would be it.

The thing the parents are carrying: Is it living? Yope. dead? Yope. never alive? Yope. Are any of the other people moving toward the line carrying something similar? Yes. Are all of them? Yes. Is it a requirement for those moving toward the line? Pretty much.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they carrying food?
Is this a line for food?
Thansgiving?
Line for the bathroom?
Whatever they're carrying-- part living, part dead?
They were killed accidentally, correct?

Let me give you an example.
We have have murderer A. Targeting [group of] people B. The boy's parents and the other people killed were in group C. So Group B was left unharmed. Is this relevant to the situation?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they carrying food? Yes.
Is this a line for food? Rephrase.
Thanksgiving? No.
Line for the bathroom? No.
Whatever they're carrying-- part living, part dead? Some living, some dead.
They were killed accidentally, correct? Yes.

Let me give you an example.
We have have murderer A. Yes. Targeting [group of] people B. No. FA. The boy's parents and the other people killed were in group C. So Group B was left unharmed. See above and I suggest rephrasing. Is this relevant to the situation? Yes it is relevant so i do suggest you continue to try and figure out how this pieces together.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the murderer was not intending to kill ANYBODY, correct? It was a complete accident, not anything like, they had bad aim, or anything.

OR he was targeting 'person' A?
Was the main boy-subject of the puzzle a target for murder?
Are they on a line holding plates and receiving food?
Or did they bring food to share with everyone else?
Or are they just transporting the food to somewhere else?
Are they at a buffet?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the murderer was not intending to kill ANYBODY, correct? Correct. It was a complete accident, Yope. not anything like, they had bad aim, or anything. Not like these, No.

OR he was targeting 'person' A? No.
Was the main boy-subject of the puzzle a target for murder? No.
Are they on a line holding plates and receiving food? No.
Or did they bring food to share with everyone else? No.
Or are they just transporting the food to somewhere else? Yes.
Are they at a buffet? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the occupation of the parents matter?
If so,
{Insert LPTF list of occupations} if it won't give away the puzzle.
Would it help to figure out how they died?
Time period relevant?
Time of day relevant?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the occupation of the parents matter? Nope.
If so,
{Insert LPTF list of occupations} if it won't give away the puzzle. So this is unnecessary, but I'm feeling descriptive so the Dad is gas station attendant and the Mom is a nuclear physicist, and yes i just pulled both of those out of my ass just now.
Would it help to figure out how they died? I am going to say yes then brace myself for the wild goose chase you will go on to figure this out.
Time period relevant? No.
Time of day relevant? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

;___;

Would it help to figure out what kind of food they're carrying?
Or why they're carrying it?

Are they about to eat dinner?
Are they going on a picnic?
Is it a holiday or special occasion?
Were they killed by physical injury?
Chemicals?
Organ failure?
Electric shock?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

;___; Heh.

Would it help to figure out what kind of food they're carrying? Nope.
Or why they're carrying it? Yes.

Are they about to eat dinner? Nope.
Are they going on a picnic? Nope.
Is it a holiday or special occasion? Nope.
Were they killed by physical injury? Nope.
Chemicals? Nope.
Organ failure? Nope.
Electric shock? Nope.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they just vanish and are assumed dead?
Are they fictional characters?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they just vanish and are assumed dead? Damn that was fast, Yes.
Are they fictional characters? Yes.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Post Number: 280
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. Long shot:
They are characters in a story and lines are either:
The lines on a ruled-sheet of paper, or they are on paper on a typewriter. Once the author got to the next line, he didn't write about them again.
Anneja (Anneja)
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Post Number: 36
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if it was an acident was the accident preventable?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Summary: Ma the nuclear physicist and Pa the gas station attendant are in a line of people holding food, as are the others in the line. The boy, who's name is now Peter, saw them go to the line, but they (along with everyone else in the line) have now been instantaneously and accidentally annihilated without a trace by someone. Peter is now unable to find his parents.

Is the destination of the line relevant? The number of people in it? How much food they are carrying?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pikachizzle

Okay. Long shot:
They are characters in a story and lines are either:
The lines on a ruled-sheet of paper, or they are on paper on a typewriter. Once the author got to the next line, he didn't write about them again. That is so awesome i kinda wish it were the answer, but alas...No.

Anneja

if it was an accident was the accident preventable? Yes.

Caesarachilles

Summary: Ma the nuclear physicist and Pa the gas station attendant are in a line of people holding food, as are the others in the line. The boy, who's name is now Peter, saw them go to the line, but they (along with everyone else in the line) have now been instantaneously and accidentally annihilated without a trace by someone. Peter is now unable to find his parents. Yes, that is the short of it. Now figure out the long of it.

Is the destination of the line relevant? only for the purpose of developing a setting, so not particularly relevant but if you could figure it out it might help you find out other setting related information. The number of people in it? Yes. How much food they are carrying? Not at all.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did their creator cause them to disappear?
Did he do it for a reason?
Are they characters in:
a movie?
a book?
any sort of text that isn't a book?
a TV show?
a comic?
something else?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did their creator cause them to disappear? Not sure what you mean, rephrase.
Did he do it for a reason? See above.
Are they characters in:
a movie? This. Watch out for FA.
a book?
any sort of text that isn't a book?
a TV show?
a comic?
something else?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A roll of film perhaps?
Did the film stop rolling?
Is popcorn relevant?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A roll of film perhaps? No.
Did the film stop rolling? No.
Is popcorn relevant? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can I replace the word 'line' in the puzzle with the word 'stripe'?
'Streak'?
'Stroke'?
'Border'?

Whoever created these fictional characters-- did he make them disappear? For example, a writer can kill off characters when he chooses.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can I replace the word 'line' in the puzzle with the word 'stripe'? no.
'Streak'? no.
'Stroke'? no.
'Border'? no, and you won't be able to. It is a "line".

Whoever created these fictional characters-- did he make them disappear? For example, a writer can kill off characters when he chooses. This is a Yes. The Creator did want to kill off these characters but that is not relevant to the puzzle. I'm looking for the reasoning within the story not outside of it. Be careful not to drift too far off track.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the line be called a column?

Was it the killer's intention to kill somebody, anybody, and the kid's parents just happened to be the ones he targeted?

A line of people? Objects? A power line?

Did the boy see his parents die? Or did he turn away for a minute and they were gone? Did they disintegrate? Were they beamed away a la Star Trek? Is this fiction set in the modern day? Science fiction? Fantasy?

Did the parents expect to return to the boy? Did they leave him in someone's care? How far away from him were they when they died? Inches? Feet? Tens of feet? Hundreds? Thousands? Miles? More?

Could their deaths be considered a crime? If so, manslaughter? 1st degree murder? 2nd degree? Are their deaths the result of an experiment? Did the killer expect someone to die at some point?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many people were in the line: 2+? 5+? 10+? 20+? 50+? 100+? 200+? 500+? 1000+?
Was the lines destination inside? Outside? Was its origin inside? Outside?

Was the object that destroyed the line of people an actual weapon? Not intended to be a weapon? Originally non-weapon but then weaponized (as with nuclear fission)?
Is it possible to create this device IRL? Or is it only possible within the fictional setting of the plot? If it is feasible, has it been created?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo

Could the line be called a column? No.

Was it the killer's intention to kill somebody, No. anybody, No. and the kid's parents just happened to be the ones he targeted? No.

A line of people? <-This. Objects? A power line?

Did the boy see his parents die? No. Or did he turn away for a minute and they were gone? Yes. Did they disintegrate? No. Were they beamed away a la Star Trek? No. Is this fiction set in the modern day? Yes. Science fiction? This as well kind of. Fantasy? No.

Did the parents expect to return to the boy? Other way around, parent expected boy to return to them. Did they leave him in someone's care? No. How far away from him were they when they died? Inches? Feet? Tens of feet? <-This. Hundreds? Thousands? Miles? More?

Could their deaths be considered a crime? I am not familiar with the definitions of these or their requirements, but i will say that the means by which they died is fictional and thus would be difficult to categorize as any of these. If so, manslaughter? 1st degree murder? 2nd degree? Are their deaths the result of an experiment? No. Did the killer expect someone to die at some point? This was not a consideration of the killer, No.

Caesarachilles

How many people were in the line: 2+? 5+? 10+? <-This. 20+? 50+? 100+? 200+? 500+? 1000+?
Was the lines destination inside? Yes. Outside? Was its origin inside? Yes. Outside?

Was the object that destroyed the line of people an actual weapon? FA. Not intended to be a weapon? /b{See above.} Originally non-weapon but then weaponized (as with nuclear fission)? /b{See above.}
Is it possible to create this device IRL? /b{See above.} Or is it only possible within the fictional setting of the plot? /b{See above.} If it is feasible, has it been created? /b{See above.}
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a physical object that destroyed them? A force of some kind? Magic? Psychic/psionic? Some other unsubstantial means?

...Did a wizard do it? XD

Were the people in the line previously associated with each other in some way? Were any of them known to the boy besides his parents? Did any of them know him?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a physical object that destroyed them? No. A force of some kind? This would be closest. Magic? Psychic/psionic? Some other unsubstantial means?

...Did a wizard do it? XD No.

Were the people in the line previously associated with each other in some way? Possibly, but IRR. Were any of them known to the boy besides his parents? Possibly, but IRR. Did any of them know him? Possibly, but IRR.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the creator make a mistake and had to correct it by killing the characters off?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Force = Electricity? Shock wave?

What size was the building they were in: Small (apartment)? Medium (average house)? Large (rich person's house)? Huge (supermarket/warehouse)? Colossal (Area 51)?
I take it the boy was inside as well?

Was the boy supposed to be with his parents, then wandered off? Is it relevant what he was wandering off for?

Murderer = HAM/HAF?
Was the murderer aware of the presence of the victims? Were they aware of the murderer? Was the boy aware of the murderer?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pikachizzle

Did the creator make a mistake and had to correct it by killing the characters off? No.

Ceasarachilles

Force = Electricity? Shock wave? No. Force may be a bad term to use but I will stick with it.

What size was the building they were in: Small (apartment)? Medium (average house)? Large (rich person's house)? Huge (supermarket/warehouse)? <-This. Since you listed it i will tell you they are in a Supermarket. Colossal (Area 51)?
I take it the boy was inside as well? Correct.

Was the boy supposed to be with his parents, Yope. then wandered off? Yope. Is it relevant what he was wandering off for? Yes.

Murderer = HAM/HAF? No to all.
Was the murderer aware of the presence of the victims? No. Were they aware of the murderer? No. Was the boy aware of the murderer? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap:

A boy and his parents are in a supermarket. I'm assuming they put him on one of those horse-thingies that you input a quarter and it goes around; while they paid for the groceries [the line]. Once they made it there, they were killed. By killed, I'm assuming this means "make disappear?" and he did it by some kind of force.

Am I correct?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Title relevance wild guess:
One parents asks 'how much?'
And the reply is '40'?
Or they never get a reply and the title is supposed to settle it?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap:

A boy and his parents are in a supermarket. Yes. I'm assuming they put him on one of those horse-thingies that you input a quarter and it goes around; No. while they paid for the groceries [the line]. Once they made it there, they were killed. Yes. By killed, I'm assuming this means "make disappear?" and he did it by some kind of force. Yes, but again i mean the term "force" in lose terms.

Am I correct? This is for the most part correct aside from noted above.

Title relevance wild guess:
One parents asks 'how much?' Nope.
And the reply is '40'? Nope.
Or they never get a reply and the title is supposed to settle it? Nope. The title actually has more relevance than this.

Since it appears that you are shooting at flies in the dark with a slingshot loaded with cotton balls I'll give a little hint.

*****HINT*****
The child is very relevant to this puzzle and has received very little attention from questioning thus far. Pursuing lines of questioning involving the child may be very helpful.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boy see something interesting? Was it shiny? Was it a toy? Was it a movie or game? Was it edible? Was it candy?
Did he see someone he knows?
Was he playing a game?

Did the boy turn back to look for his parents for a reason (he wanted to ask something)? Or just looking for them?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boy cause his parents to disappear?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Caesarachilles

Did the boy see something interesting? No. Was it shiny? No. Was it a toy? No. Was it a movie or game? No. Was it edible? No. Was it candy? No.
Did he see someone he knows? Yes.
Was he playing a game? No.

Did the boy turn back to look for his parents for a reason (he wanted to ask something)? Or just looking for them? <-This.

Pikachizzle

Did the boy cause his parents to disappear? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boy see his friend?
A family member?
An older, familiar adult?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boy see his friend? No.
A family member? Yes.
An older, familiar adult? Yes.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suppose the parents never had this son, would the scenario still occur?
Suppose they had the son, but he wasn't present?

Was the murderer a mystical power, such as a god?

Was this adult family member responsible either directly or indirectly for the deaths?
What about the child?

I'm also slightly confused about something: early in the puzzle, you state that the parents were murdered; later, however, you seem to construe that their deaths were accidental and that the murderer did not intend to kill anybody. Could you please explain this?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suppose the parents never had this son, would the scenario still occur? Yes.
Suppose they had the son, but he wasn't present? I'm assuming you still referring to "would the scenario still occur?", so Yes.

Was the murderer a mystical power, such as a god? No, the murderer is very much tangible.

Was this adult family member responsible either directly or indirectly for the deaths? Yes.
What about the child? No.

I'm also slightly confused about something: early in the puzzle, you state that the parents were murdered; later, however, you seem to construe that their deaths were accidental and that the murderer did not intend to kill anybody. Could you please explain this? Sorry to be confusing, I'll do my best. I feel an analogy may help me clear this up without giving anything away. Say i go out and build a bridge, my sole purpose for doing so is to create a connection between two places over which things can cross. During my construction i for got to place one crucial load bearing support, so the bridge can support its own weight and a little more but not to the extent it normally would be able to. Someone then uses my bridge and upon reaching the middle the bridge gives way and they fall and die. In a sense i murdered them, even though that was by no means my intention.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Older relative = HAM/HAF?
Is this older family member the killer/murderer?
Is it relevant what relation this person is to the boy and his parents?
Is it relevant what the boy said to this older relative? Did he say anything at all?

This "force", does it exist in the real world?
Is it a feature of the fictional universe in which it takes place (like The Force is a feature of the Star Wars universe)?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Older relative = H Yes. A Yes. M Yes. /HAF?
Is this older family member the killer/murderer? No.
Is it relevant what relation this person is to the boy and his parents? Yes.
Is it relevant what the boy said to this older relative? /b{Not really.} Did he say anything at all? Something along the lines of "Hi, I'm here with mom and dad.

This "force", does it exist in the real world? No.
Is it a feature of the fictional universe in which it takes place (like The Force is a feature of the Star Wars universe)? Yes.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative a parent of Mom or Dad? Brother of Mom or Dad? Brother of the boy? Cousin on Mom's or Dad's side?
Was this relative indirectly responsible for the killings?

Is the "force" equivalent to The Force, in that it is a quasi-psychic "energy field-force-thing" that can be manipulated to impact the physical world by a person via their willpower? Other method of manipulation (e.g., gestures, rituals, etc)?

Is this a well-known fictional setting? Or is it just a generic setting you created for the purposes of this puzzle?

Is it relevant what the relative is doing? Is he working for the supermarket? Shopping? Waiting in the checkout line? Is he there with the boy and his parents, or was it a chance encounter?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative a parent of Mom or Dad? <-This. Brother of Mom or Dad? Brother of the boy? Cousin on Mom's or Dad's side?
Was this relative indirectly responsible for the killings? Yes.

Is the "force" equivalent to The Force, in that it is a quasi-psychic "energy field-force-thing" that can be manipulated to impact the physical world by a person via their willpower? No. What needs to be known about the "force" isn't what it is so much as how it functions, if that makes any sense. I will say that its function is based off of something most all of you should know. Other method of manipulation (e.g., gestures, rituals, etc)? No.

Is this a well-known fictional setting? Or is it just a generic setting you created for the purposes of this puzzle? <-This.

Is it relevant what the relative is doing? No. Is he working for the supermarket? No.Shopping? No. Waiting in the checkout line? No. Is he there with the boy and his parents, <-This most likely. or was it a chance encounter?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the killer some sort of alien? Terrestrial monster? Unspeakable Lovecraftian Horror?
Was it young? Ancient? Some other age that isn't "adult"?
Since it isn't male or female, is it genderless? Both? Some other gender?
Was it even alive? Meaning, could it be a robot/machine of some kind?

So can we assume that Grandpa is just standing there idle, and somehow indirectly caused the catastrophe? Or is "caused" the wrong word?

Since you said that you created the setting, but that it takes place in a movie, did you make the movie? Can it be found online?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoever created these fictional characters-- did he make them disappear? For example, a writer can kill off characters when he chooses. This is a Yes. The Creator did want to kill off these characters but that is not relevant to the puzzle.

I'm sorry, you also said THIS earlier, which confuses me deeply. Please clarify.
He WANTED to kill these people but did so by accident?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could this force be duplicated in our world?
Is the force always destrctive?
Is the force a natural disaster?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pikachizzle

Whoever created these fictional characters-- did he make them disappear? For example, a writer can kill off characters when he chooses. This is a Yes. The Creator did want to kill off these characters but that is not relevant to the puzzle. I apologise i was confused by this question earlier and answered inappropriately. Everything that happens within a story can be said to have been done by the writer, so that is why i said yes to your question. However the "force" that kill the parents was a "force" generated by a character within the story not the writer himself. To limit future confusion disregard the writer entirely from this point on for as i said before "i am looking for the reasoning WITHIN the story not outside of it, and the writer is what i would consider to be outside of it.

I'm sorry, you also said THIS earlier, which confuses me deeply. Please clarify.
He WANTED to kill these people but did so by accident? The killer wanted the force to occur. The fact that people were a part of it, and the fact that they died is of no concern the the killer, their deaths was not the goal. Thus the best way for me to describe their deaths is as an accident.

Superman

Could this force be duplicated in our world? No.
Is the force always destructive? Yes.
Is the force a natural disaster? In a very lose use of the term natural disaster, Yes.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Caesarachilles

Was the killer some sort of alien? No. Terrestrial monster? No. Unspeakable Lovecraftian Horror? No.
Was it young? Yes. Beware of FA Ancient? No. Some other age that isn't "adult"? See above.
Since it isn't male or female, is it genderless? Yes.Both? Some other gender?
Was it even alive? Not really. Meaning, could it be a robot/machine of some kind? BINGO! Yes it is a robot/machine of sorts.

So can we assume that Grandpa Yes it is grandpa. is just standing there idle, and somehow indirectly caused the catastrophe? Yes. Beware of FA. Or is "caused" the wrong word? There are better words but i can't think of any. Feel free to toss some at me and i'll let you know.

Since you said that you created the setting, but that it takes place in a movie, did you make the movie? A friend did, and it has yet to be made. Can it be found online? No. See above
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Is the killer an autonomous robot? Sentient?
Or is it simply a machine performing the tasks it was designed to (though perhaps in ways unanticipated by its creators)?
Is it relevant if it can move or not?
Is it relevant what the machine's goal in unleashing the force was?
Is 40 the answer to "how many people were killed?"

Some better words for "caused":
Began
Brought to pass
Effected
Elicited
Engendered
Evoked
Gave rise to
Incited
Induced
Inspired
Precipitated
Produced
Provoked
None of the above?

Was Grandpa killed as well?
Anneja (Anneja)
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it the terminator
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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-boo-.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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I'm trying to figure out how they died, really.
Were they sucked into a vacuum cleaner?
Did the Grandpa turn on the vacuum?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Caesarachilles

Is the killer an autonomous robot? Somewhat this. Sentient? No.
Or is it simply a machine performing the tasks it was designed to (though perhaps in ways unanticipated by its creators)? This as well.
Is it relevant if it can move or not? It can't move.
Is it relevant what the machine's goal in unleashing the force was? Yes.
Is 40 the answer to "how many people were killed?" No.

Some better words for "caused":
Began
Brought to pass
Effected
Elicited
Engendered
Evoked
Gave rise to
Incited
Induced This might be better.
Inspired
Precipitated
Produced
Provoked
None of the above?

Was Grandpa killed as well? No.

Anneja

is it the terminator Nope, as stated before the movie has not been made.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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You missed my questions.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Oops

I'm trying to figure out how they died, really.
Were they sucked into a vacuum cleaner? HAHAHAHHAHAHA...No
Did the Grandpa turn on the vacuum? No, but still hysterical.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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:[
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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How about.. 40 vacuum cleaners?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about.. 40 vacuum cleaners? *face palm* No.

Someone throwing together a recap might help to bring together all the info you know. Would also be a good chance to see if there are any FA's running around that need to be put to sleep.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Ma the nuclear physicist and Pa the gas station attendant are in the checkout line at a supermarket. Their son sees his grandfather, who is standing off to one side, and goes over to say hello. When he turns back to look for his parents, he sees that they (along with everyone else in line) have been instantaneously and accidentally annihilated without a trace by a semi-autonomous machine. (This act was induced by his grandfather, for lack of a better word.) Peter is now unable to find his parents.

Did Grandpa build the machine? Operate it (intentionally or otherwise)? Oversee it in some other way?
Did Grandpa see the parents get killed, or was he not watching as well?
Was the machine part of the supermarket? Part of its "staff"? Owned by the supermarket?
If so, what function did it fulfill: Cleaning? Moving of product? Maintenance? Customer service?
If not, how far away from the scene was it: 100+ ft? 1000+ ft? 1+ mi? 5+ mi? 20+ mi? Considerably further?

Is the machine the Singularity? An attempt at the Singularity?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Ma the nuclear physicist and Pa the gas station attendant are in the checkout line at a supermarket. Their son sees his grandfather, who is standing off to one side, and goes over to say hello. When he turns back to look for his parents, he sees that they (along with everyone else in line) have been instantaneously and accidentally annihilated without a trace by a semi-autonomous machine. (This act was induced by his grandfather, for lack of a better word.) Peter is now unable to find his parents. All correct.

Did Grandpa build the machine? No. Operate it (intentionally or otherwise)? No. Oversee it in some other way? Define 'oversee'.
Did Grandpa see the parents get killed, Yes. or was he not watching as well?
Was the machine part of the supermarket? No. Part of its "staff"? No. Owned by the supermarket? No.
If so, what function did it fulfill: Cleaning? No. Moving of product? No. Maintenance? No. Customer service? No.
If not, how far away from the scene was it: 100+ ft? 1000+ ft? 1+ mi? 5+ mi? 20+ mi? Considerably further? <-This, but really the specific numerical distance is irrelivent.

Is the machine the Singularity? No. An attempt at the Singularity? Not really but could be considered advancement toward it.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Grandpa have some malicious intent?
Any reason to want Mom & Dad dead?

By the way, do look at my puzzles, including my new one ... they are slightly neglected.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the robot able to unleash some kind of fictional destructive force? Would it be used for the purposes of demolition? The removal or transfer of matter?

Did the entire line disappear at once? Or as it filed past a certain point?

Did the interaction between the child and Grandpa initiate or cause the force to be activated?

Besides the people, did anything else disappear?

Do we need to know what the line is for?

Was anything left, like their clothes?

Is the fact they had food relevant?

Was the robot an agent for another group of people? For another civilization?

Is this the sequence of events:
1. Parents go to line, leaving child behind
2. Child sees Grandpa, who is not in line
3. Child and Grandpa speak
4. Robot initiates force
5. Zap - line gone
6. Child looks over and sees that line is gone

All the relevant questions -- which is right, which is wrong, which has FA's, what gaps between these events need to be filled in?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Satellites/ space relevant?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By "Did Grandpa oversee the machine" I mean was Grandpa in any way responsible for the machine, its constituent parts, or others who hold one/both of those responsibilities?

Did Grandpa even know about the machine's existance? Its purpose? Its plans?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Superman

Does Grandpa have some malicious intent? No.
Any reason to want Mom & Dad dead? No.

Davesnothere

Was the robot able to unleash some kind of fictional destructive force? Yope. Possible FA. Would it be used for the purposes of demolition? Regarding it's original purpose, No. The removal or transfer of matter? Regarding it's original purpose, No.

Did the entire line disappear at once? Yes. Or as it filed past a certain point? No.

Did the interaction between the child and Grandpa initiate or cause the force to be activated? No.

Besides the people, did anything else disappear? All their positions they had on them.

Do we need to know what the line is for? Not Really, It's for purchasing groceries.

Was anything left, like their clothes? No. See above.

Is the fact they had food relevant? Nope, only to the extent of letting you know that they are in a supermarket.

Was the robot an agent for another group of people? What original group of people are you referring to? rephrase please. For another civilization? No, it was created on earth by humans.

Is this the sequence of events:
1. Parents go to line, leaving child behind Correct.
2. Child sees Grandpa, who is not in line Correct.
3. Child and Grandpa speak Correct.
4. Robot initiates force FA. 4. Parents finally reach line.
5. Zap - line gone 5/6. Force happens/Line vanishes. ***Note*** 4/5/6 all happen simultaneously.
6. Child looks over and sees that line is gone 7. Child looks over and sees that line is gone

Pikachizzle

Satellites/ space relevant? No.

Caesarachilles

By "Did Grandpa oversee the machine" I mean was Grandpa in any way responsible for the machine, Yope. its constituent parts, No. or others who hold one/both of those responsibilities? No.

Did Grandpa even know about the machine's existence? Yes. Its purpose? Yes. Its plans? No.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

100th post!
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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"All their positions they had on them."
I take it that when you say "positions" what you really mean is "possessions"?

Is Grandpa's occupation relevant?
Did he help design the machine?
Could he have stopped it if he had known what was going to happen? Would he have stopped it?
Does Grandpa consider the machine to be a good thing? Bad? Neither?
Did Grandpa own the machine? Is he in charge of whatever organization owns the machine?
Is anyone the owner of the machine? Or is it independent?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"All their positions they had on them."
I take it that when you say "positions" what you really mean is "possessions"? Yes. *Curses his tiredness and this confounded spell checker*.

Is Grandpa's occupation relevant? Yes.
Did he help design the machine? No.
Could he have stopped it if he had known what was going to happen? No. Would he have stopped it? If he could have, he would have.
Does Grandpa consider the machine to be a good thing? Bad? Neither? Considering its original purpose, he was indifferent to the machine.
Did Grandpa own the machine? No. Is he in charge of whatever organization owns the machine? No
Is anyone the owner of the machine? Yes. Or is it independent? No.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Grandpa know the owner of the machine?

Earlier you said:
4. Parents finally reach line.
5/6. Force happens/Line vanishes.
***Note*** 4/5/6 all happen simultaneously.

I can understand that 5 and 6 would happen simultaneously but is the fact that 4 also happens at exactly the same time just a coincidence? Or did the parents finally reaching the line somehow cause the force?

If Grandpa had joined the line would he have died?
If Grandpa had not been in the supermarket would anyone have died?
If Grandpa had not spoken to little Jimmy would anyone have died?

Could Grandpa ever be seen as the murderer, however indirectly?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for joining in Yabblesmacker.

Did Grandpa know the owner of the machine? Yes.

Earlier you said:
4. Parents finally reach line.
5/6. Force happens/Line vanishes.
***Note*** 4/5/6 all happen simultaneously.

I can understand that 5 and 6 would happen simultaneously but is the fact that 4 also happens at exactly the same time just a coincidence? No. Or did the parents finally reaching the line somehow cause the force? Yes. This is important.

If Grandpa had joined the line would he have died? Yes.
If Grandpa had not been in the supermarket would anyone have died? Yes.
If Grandpa had not spoken to little Jimmy would anyone have died? Yes.

Could Grandpa ever be seen as the murderer, however indirectly? No.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the parents reaching the line triggered the force...

Could it only have been these particular two people that triggered the force? ie. if these parents had not joined the line but two other people had, would the force have happened?

If it was these people in patricular, is it because one of them is related to Grandpa?
If so, is it only the son/daughter of Grandpa who needed to join the line in order to cause the force?

Or, is it the fact that the line reached a particular length that caused the force? ie, if there were only 3 people in the line already, and the parents joined, would the force have happened?

If it is to do with length, is it the length of the line in metres? Or number of people in the line?

By the parents reaching the line is there a particular cut off point between "they haven't reached the line yet" and "ok now they've reached the line"?

If so, is the cut off point any of these?
Did they make physical contact with the people in front?
Did they pass a certain physical point in the supermarket?
Did they stop walking because they had reached the line?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the parents reaching the line triggered the force... Correct.

Could it only have been these particular two people that triggered the force? No. ie. if these parents had not joined the line but two other people had, would the force have happened? Yes.

If it was these people in particular, is it because one of them is related to Grandpa?
If so, is it only the son/daughter of Grandpa who needed to join the line in order to cause the force? See above.

Or, is it the fact that the line reached a particular length that caused the force? Yes. ie, if there were only 3 people in the line already, and the parents joined, would the force have happened? No.

If it is to do with length, is it the length of the line in metres? No. Nor any other sort of metric or imperial measurements. Or number of people in the line? Yes.

By the parents reaching the line is there a particular cut off point between "they haven't reached the line yet" and "ok now they've reached the line"? Yes.

If so, is the cut off point any of these?
Did they make physical contact with the people in front?
Did they pass a certain physical point in the supermarket?
Did they stop walking because they had reached the line? This.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that the machine's "directive" is "when x number of people are arranged in a line and stationary...unleash the force!"
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Is it that the machine's "directive" is "when x number of people are arranged in a line and stationary...unleash the force!" Yope. Getting warmer though...
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant exactly how the machine is triggered? Does it use motion sensors to determine the number of people in line? Weight detectors? Lasers? Did it just count them?

Is Grandpa: A scientist? Engineer? Mathematician? Historian? Philosopher? Artist? Porn star? Government worker? In the military? A sailor? Trucker/driver? Undecided/liberal-arts/journalism/English major? Student? Professor? IT Professional? Businessman? Politician? Blacksmith? Mechanic? Farmer? Unemployed? Industrial peon? Photographer? Other?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant exactly how the machine is triggered? It's not really relevant so lets say it just works. Does it use motion sensors to determine the number of people in line? Weight detectors? Lasers? Did it just count them?

Is Grandpa: A scientist? Engineer? Mathematician? Historian? Philosopher? Artist? Porn star? Government worker? In the military? A sailor? Trucker/driver? Undecided/liberal-arts/journalism/English major? Student? Professor? IT Professional? Businessman? Politician? Blacksmith? Mechanic? Farmer? Unemployed? Industrial peon? Photographer? Other? Other.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, when Grandpa saw that all the people had been wiped out, which of these is closest to what he was thinking:

"What the ?$%! just happened?!"
"What was that? Oh wait...it must have been that machine!"
"Oh dear, I knew that machine would be put to bad use."
"Oh, it's one of those unexplained killings that have been on the news recently."
"Oh no, the machine is out to get me!"
"If only I'd known, I would have been able to save everyone!"
"I wish I hadn't done that thing I did when I was younger..."
"Mwa ha ha, my evil plan has worked!"
"That machine must have broken free of its human programming and become an unstoppable killing machine!"
"I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby..."

You said earlier that little Jimmy is very relevent to the puzzle. Is there still some things we should be working out about him?

Is there a relevant reason why Jimmy's parents asked him not to follow them into the queue? Was it because his Grandpa was there and they could just leave Jimmy with him?
How old is he? Is he an average child? Does Jimmy have any superhuman powers? Does he have a disablity?
Does Jimmy know about the machine? Does Jimmy want anyone to die? Is Jimmy in any way responsible for his parents death, however indirectly?

About the fact that Jimmy and Grandpa weren't killed by the force: was it because they weren't within the physical range of the force? Or was the force only capable of killing a certain number of people? For example, if one other person had joined the line with the parents, and stopped walking at exactly the same moment, would all three of them have died? Is any of this relevant?

Wow, only just realised what a long post this is, sorry!
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, when Grandpa saw that all the people had been wiped out, which of these is closest to what he was thinking:

"What the ?$%! just happened?!"
"What was that? Oh wait...it must have been that machine!"
"Oh dear, I knew that machine would be put to bad use."
"Oh, it's one of those unexplained killings that have been on the news recently."
"Oh no, the machine is out to get me!"
"If only I'd known, I would have been able to save everyone!"
"I wish I hadn't done that thing I did when I was younger..." This...
"Mwa ha ha, my evil plan has worked!"
"That machine must have broken free of its human programming and become an unstoppable killing machine!" ...and this.
"I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby..."

You said earlier that little Jimmy is very relevant to the puzzle. Is there still some things we should be working out about him? For the purpose of the puzzle his impotents was how he bridged the gap over to grandpa being in the situation.

Is there a relevant reason why Jimmy's parents asked him not to follow them into the queue? No. The reason would have been something like "No jimmy were not buying frosted flakes now go put it back." Was it because his Grandpa was there and they could just leave Jimmy with him?
How old is he? Early teens. Is he an average child? Yes. Does Jimmy have any superhuman powers? No. Does he have a disability? No.
Does Jimmy know about the machine? No. Does Jimmy want anyone to die? No. Is Jimmy in any way responsible for his parents death, however indirectly? No.

About the fact that Jimmy and Grandpa weren't killed by the force: was it because they weren't within the physical range of the force? Yes. Or was the force only capable of killing a certain number of people? FA. For example, if one other person had joined the line with the parents, and stopped walking at exactly the same moment, would all three of them have died? Depends. Is any of this relevant? Yes.

Wow, only just realised what a long post this is, sorry! No problem, i just got back from being gone for a few days so hopefully a big post like this will help get the ball rolling again.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*roll roll roll...*

The thing that Grandpa did in his past, did he: kill someone? Build (knowingly or unknowingly) some critical part of the machine? Make some discovery that allowed the machine to be built? Introduce some people who would later collaborate on the machine?
Is Grandpa's profession: a trade (carpentry, mechanics, etc)? Academic? Administrative? Does it require a high school education? University? Graduate school?
Is he a doctor (medical)? Doctor (of anything else)?

Is the relation of the machine's owners to the family relevant? If so, are they: other familily members? Friends of Grandpa? Of Jimmy? Of the parents? Colleages? Coworkers? Classmates? Neighbors?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*roll roll roll...*

The thing that Grandpa did in his past, did he: kill someone? No. Build (knowingly or unknowingly) some critical part of the machine? No. Make some discovery that allowed the machine to be built? No. Introduce some people who would later collaborate on the machine? No.
Is Grandpa's profession: a trade (carpentry, mechanics, etc)? No. Academic? No. Administrative? No. Does it require a high school education? No. University? No. Graduate school? No.
Is he a doctor (medical)? No. Doctor (of anything else)? No.

Is the relation of the machine's owners to the family relevant? Yope. If so, are they: other family members? No. Friends of Grandpa? Possibly. Of Jimmy? No. Of the parents? No. Colleagues? Of who? Coworkers? Of who? Classmates? Of who? Neighbors? Of who?
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the machine creators colleagues/coworkers/classmates/neighbours of Grandpa?

Let's hypothetically say that Grandpa had never been born. Would this event still have definitely occured? (And I'm assuming here that though one of the parents would never have been born and they would never have been in the line at the supermarket, someone else would have come along seconds later and made up the numbers.)

Ok, so although Grandpa was involved with the machine somehow I believe, the event still would have happened if he hadn't been there. I assume this is also true of Jimmy and his parents. Therefore, is it just a complete coincidence that a family with vague connections to the machine happened to be there when the machine induced the force? Or have I missed something?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the machine creators colleagues No./coworkers This is the closest./classmates No./neighbours No. of Grandpa?

Let's hypothetically say that Grandpa had never been born. Would this event still have definitely occurred? No. (And I'm assuming here that though one of the parents would never have been born and they would never have been in the line at the supermarket, someone else would have come along seconds later and made up the numbers.)

Ok, so although Grandpa was involved with the machine somehow I believe, the event still would have happened if he hadn't been there. Correct. I assume this is also true of Jimmy and his parents. Correct. Therefore, is it just a complete coincidence that a family with vague connections to the machine happened to be there when the machine induced the force? Yes. Or have I missed something? Nope, seems like you got it up to this point.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Post Number: 123
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok. It sounds like the machine was created for a different purpose than what it did in this event.
Does the machine have a consciousness? I don't believe any robots in real life do but since this is a fictional story...
In which case, did the machine actively decide to do other things than what it was created to do?
Or if it wasn't aware, its programming somehow got altered? By a human? If so, purposefully? Accidentally? By Grandpa? Or was it not done by a human? Did its wires get tangled up?

When the machine/robot was originally created, was it intended to be one of a kind? Or were there going to be more like it? Were more of the same machine actually made? Is it a fictional machine or a real one (eg a rogue dishwasher)?

Did the creators intend to use the machine themselves? Did they intend to sell it? Would an average human have a use for this machine?

When the machine was originally made, was it capable of "inducing" this "force"? Or did it become able to induce the force after it changed? Could this force be helpful to a human under the right circumstances? Is it that its purpose was to use this force at a low level but the machine started to use the force in too strong an amount that it ended up killing people?

You said when the robot killed everyone, it wasn't trying to kill them. Was it trying to do the thing it had been created to do? Or something else?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 148
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok. It sounds like the machine was created for a different purpose than what it did in this event. Yope.
Does the machine have a consciousness? No. I don't believe any robots in real life do but since this is a fictional story...
In which case, did the machine actively decide to do other things than what it was created to do? See above.
Or if it wasn't aware, its programming somehow got altered? Yes. By a human? Yope. If so, purposefully? No. Accidentally? Yes. By Grandpa? Yope. Or was it not done by a human? Yope. Did its wires get tangled up? No.

When the machine/robot was originally created, was it intended to be one of a kind? Yes. Or were there going to be more like it? No. Were more of the same machine actually made? No. Is it a fictional machine or a real one (eg a rogue dishwasher)? This version of the machine is fictional but its idea is based off of a machine that does exists in real life.

Did the creators intend to use the machine themselves? Yes. Did they intend to sell it? No. Would an average human have a use for this machine? No.

When the machine was originally made, was it capable of "inducing" this "force"? No. Or did it become able to induce the force after it changed? Yes. Could this force be helpful to a human under the right circumstances? Yes. The premise of the idea is that in the future Jimmy learns to use it to his advantage, though other than the fact that it could be useful none of the rest is relevant to the puzzle. I'm just telling you for background purposes. Is it that its purpose was to use this force at a low level but the machine started to use the force in too strong an amount that it ended up killing people? Yes.

You said when the robot killed everyone, it wasn't trying to kill them. Was it trying to do the thing it had been created to do? Yes. Or something else? No. It has always been following its original directive.

Good questions, i feel you might be on the right track here. Keep at it.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the force some kind of radiation? A tanning bed that was meant to give people a tan, but went over the top and killed them instead?

When the machine was created was there a setting where you could change the strength of the force?

Is this the first time that the machine has done something like this (wipe out a group of people)?
Can I assume that Grandpa was somehow involved in accidentally altering the machine's programming? Is it important how long ago that was? I imagine it being when Granpa was younger, but if this is the first time the machine has killed people, maybe it was more recently?

So the directive of the machine/use of the force: is it to do with supermarkets? Food? Is it intended to do something to people?

If the creators were going to use the machine but it's not useful to an average person, is there something special about the creators that meant they wanted to use it? Did they have a plan, and made the machine in order to carry out their plan?

Just to check: Grandpa did not help create the machine, correct? I assume there was an incident involving Grandpa which resulted in the machine being altered. Are the creators involved in the incident? Did Grandpa know of the machine's existance prior to the incident? Did he know the creators prior to the incident?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 149
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the force some kind of radiation? No. A tanning bed that was meant to give people a tan, but went over the top and killed them instead? No. The energy used by the force that made people disappear, if there is even energy involved in the process, can not be logically explained and is thus not relevant.

When the machine was created was there a setting where you could change the strength of the force? No.

Is this the first time that the machine has done something like this (wipe out a group of people)? Yes.
Can I assume that Grandpa was somehow involved in accidentally altering the machine's programming? Yes. Is it important how long ago that was? No. I imagine it being when Granpa was younger, but if this is the first time the machine has killed people, maybe it was more recently? IRR.

So the directive of the machine/use of the force: is it to do with supermarkets? No. Food? No. Is it intended to do something to people? No.

If the creators were going to use the machine but it's not useful to an average person, is there something special about the creators that meant they wanted to use it? Yes. Did they have a plan, and made the machine in order to carry out their plan? Yes.

Just to check: Grandpa did not help create the machine, correct? Correct. I assume there was an incident involving Grandpa which resulted in the machine being altered. Yes. Are the creators involved in the incident? They were present at the incident, but not involved. Did Grandpa know of the machine's existance prior to the incident? Yes. Did he know the creators prior to the incident? Yes.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 123
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say the creators were present at the incident, is this at the machine's location, or the supermarket, or the event where Grandpa altered the machine?
Was this incident the thing that Grandpa wished he hadn't done?

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine? Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning?
Would they have stopped it if they had known what it was going to do?
Could they have stopped it?

Is it relevant what the machine was targeting with the force? Was it targeting anything? If it was, did it hit its target, or did it miss and thus hit the line?

Was the machine's programming altered by another program (thus a human was sort-of responsible)? Was it Grandpa who wrote the code that messed up the machine's programming? Did he write a piece of malware that damaged the machine?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 151
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say the creators were present at the incident, is this at the machine's location Yes., or the supermarket No., or the event where Grandpa altered the machine FA.
Was this incident the thing that Grandpa wished he hadn't done? Yes.

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine? when? Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning? See above.
Would they have stopped it if they had known what it was going to do? Yes.
Could they have stopped it? No.

Is it relevant what the machine was targeting with the force? Yes, but be very careful of FA. Was it targeting anything? Yes. beware of FA. If it was, did it hit its target Yes. beware of FA., or did it miss and thus hit the line? No.

Was the machine's programming altered by another program (thus a human was sort-of responsible)? No. Was it Grandpa who wrote the code that messed up the machine's programming? See above. Did he write a piece of malware that damaged the machine? See above.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Grandpa did not alter the machine, but it was altered at an event that he was present for?

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine when it unleashed the force? Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning?

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine when it was altered? Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning?

The machine was not targeting the people, correct? Was it targeting a location? An object? Was the location where the force happened random?
Was the machine targeting an area/space/point/whatever near the line and the force "overshot" (went throught the actual target and hit the line)? Did the force go through the line to try to hit something on the other side?
Did the force just happen at the line? Did it simultaneously occur elsewhere? Non-simultaneously

When we say "the machine's programming", is this actual programming in the code sense? Mechanical programming (like in an old-school mechanical calculator/computer)? Something else?

If code: Was it malware that altered the programming? A design flaw? A typo? Hardware failure? "Cosmic rays"? Something else?

If mechanical: Did the machine break? Wear/break down? Was it improperly designed to begin with? Something else?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 152
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Grandpa did not alter the machine, but it was altered at an event that he was present for? Yes.

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine when it unleashed the force? No, but IRR to the puzzle. Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning? See above.

Were the creators actively monitoring the machine when it was altered? Yes, but to avoid off track questioning I'll say that they didn't notice the alteration. Did they turn their backs on it and all of a sudden it starts malfunctioning? See above.

The machine was not targeting the people, correct? Correct. Was it targeting a location? No. An object? No. Was the location where the force happened random? Define random/rephrase.
Was the machine targeting an area/space/point/whatever near the line and the force "overshot" (went throughout the actual target and hit the line)? No to all of that. Did the force go through the line to try to hit something on the other side? No.
Did the force just happen at the line? Not sure what your asking here. Did it simultaneously occur elsewhere? Yes. Non-simultaneously? This as well.

When we say "the machine's programming", is this actual programming in the code sense? Yes. Mechanical programming (like in an old-school mechanical calculator/computer)? Be more precise please. Something else? See above.

If code: Was it malware that altered the programming? A design flaw? A typo? Hardware failure? "Cosmic rays"? Something else? This, because no one is sure how it occurred, just that it did.

If mechanical: Did the machine break? Wear/break down? Was it improperly designed to begin with? Something else? Same as above.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 125
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the location(s) where the force happened chosen by the machine, or did the machine not know exactly where the force would occur?
If it was chosen, is it relevant why the machine chose the supermarket?

Did the area-of-effect of the force extend significantly beyond the line? Or was it just that one particular line that was killed?
Is it relevant where else the force occured (simultaneously or otherwise)?

Should we be pursuing the (orignal) purpose of the machine any further?
What about who altered it, and why?

It may no longer be relevant, but by mechanical programming, I am referring to mechanical devices (such as gears, springs, levers, etc.) that interact in some way to produce calculations in non-electronic, often analog ways. An example would be the Antikythera mechanism.

So the machine was targeting something, but it was not a person, location, or object?
Was it targeting a direction? An animal? Something else?
Is "targeting" even the right/best word?

Is Grandpa: A janitor? Maintenance worker? Intern? Apprentice? Delivery man? Gangter? Hitman? Assassin? Other type of hired gun? Non-hired gun?
Does his profession require tools to do effectively? Many tools? Few? General (used for many purposes in many jobs, such as a hammer, screwdriver, etc.)? Specialized (used by few jobs for few purposes, such as a lawn aerator, sextant, etc.)?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Post Number: 154
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the location(s) where the force happened chosen by the machine No., or did the machine not know exactly where the force would occur? Yes.
If it was chosen, is it relevant why the machine chose the supermarket? See above.

Did the area-of-effect of the force extend significantly beyond the line? No. Or was it just that one particular line that was killed? Yes.
Is it relevant where else the force occurred (simultaneously or otherwise)? No, just that it did occur in other locations.

Should we be pursuing the (original) purpose of the machine any further? YES! This is possibly the most important piece of information left.
What about who altered it, and why? No.

It may no longer be relevant, but by mechanical programming, I am referring to mechanical devices (such as gears, springs, levers, etc.) that interact in some way to produce calculations in non-electronic, often analog ways. An example would be the Antikythera mechanism. So No, its changes were all code based.

So the machine was targeting something, but it was not a person, location, or object? Correct.
Was it targeting a direction? An animal? Something else? Something else.
Is "targeting" even the right/best word? It works well enough.

Is Grandpa: A janitor? No. Maintenance worker? No. Intern? No. Apprentice? No. Delivery man? No. Gangter? No. Hitman? No. Assassin? No. Other type of hired gun? No. Non-hired gun? No.
Does his profession require tools to do effectively? Yes. Many tools? No. Few? Yes. General (used for many purposes in many jobs, such as a hammer, screwdriver, etc.)? No. Specialized (used by few jobs for few purposes, such as a lawn aerator, sextant, etc.)? Yes.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It sounds like we should be finding out more about the history of the machine: why it was created and who created it?

We've been assuming there is a group of creators, does it matter how many? Are they all HAM?
They have a plan which the machine will help with? Did they think of the plan together or did they join together when they realised they had the same plan? Relevant?

Does it matter how they met Grandpa? Did Grandpa ever have this same plan? Does it matter when they met Grandpa (and I mean in the sequence of events, not in their lives.) Did they meet him before the creation of the machine? During? After?

Did they create the machine from scratch? Or modify an existing machine? How long did it take to make the machine: days? weeks? months? years?
Did the creators have a particular occupation which the machine would help them with?

Were they hoping that the machine would:
Help them do a task with less effort? in less time?
Make them richer?
Make them happier in life?
Make them healthier/live longer?
Give them more power?

Was the plan that the creators had going to drastically alter their life style? (eg become kings of their own planets?)
Or only a little? (eg slightly longer coffee breaks?)
Or not at all? (eg gives them a new hairstyle but they don't change their routines?)

Is it relevant how the creators got access to the materials/parts for the machine? Or anything to do with how they built it? Do the jobs that they have involve machinery/robot parts?

Do they have the same job as Grandpa? Did they tell Grandpa about their general plan? About their plan to make the machine? Did they try and get Grandpa in on it? But he wanted no part of it?

Aaaaah, my posts are getting longer and longer! Sorry!
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It sounds like we should be finding out more about the history of the machine: why it was created and who created it? Good idea.

We've been assuming there is a group of creators Correct., does it matter how many? No. Are they all HAM? IRR.
They have a plan which the machine will help with? Yes. Did they think of the plan together <-This. or did they join together when they realised they had the same plan? See above.Relevant? Not really.

Does it matter how they met Grandpa? Not really. Did Grandpa ever have this same plan? No. Does it matter when they met Grandpa (and I mean in the sequence of events, not in their lives). A little. Did they meet him before the creation of the machine? Yes. During? See above. After? See above.

Did they create the machine from scratch? Yes. Or modify an existing machine? No. How long did it take to make the machine: days? weeks? months? years? Not relevant.
Did the creators have a particular occupation which the machine would help them with? Yes. be ware of FA

Were they hoping that the machine would:
Help them do a task with less effort? No. in less time? No.
Make them richer? No.
Make them happier in life? No.
Make them healthier/live longer? No.
Give them more power? No.

Was the plan that the creators had going to drastically alter their life style? No.(eg become kings of their own planets?) No.
Or only a little? No.(eg slightly longer coffee breaks?) No.
Or not at all? This confuses me.(eg gives them a new hairstyle but they don't change their routines?)

Is it relevant how the creators got access to the materials/parts for the machine? No. Or anything to do with how they built it? Do the jobs that they have involve machinery/robot parts? Because it is a headache for me to deal with this line of questioning i will say the machine is essentially a computer and is thus constructed the way a computer is constructed. The people who physically constructed the machine are merely generic scientists, so when you ask about the group that built the machine i have been and will continue to answer the questions with regard the the entity that employed these generic scientist to construct the machine, as they are what is actually important. I hope i didn't make anyone annoyed by giving out this information.

Do they have the same job as Grandpa? No. Did they tell Grandpa about their general plan? Yes. About their plan to make the machine? Yes. Did they try and get Grandpa in on it? He was involved with the plan. But he wanted no part of it? See above.

Aaaaah, my posts are getting longer and longer! Sorry! No problem.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Post Number: 145
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Grandpa one of the people they employed to build the machine? Or can we assume that the builders are completely irrelevant to the story?

I think I meant that was the plan they had just going to be a one-off event, and wouldn't actually alter their lives in any way after that?
Was the plan to do something to someone else? To Grandpa?

So Grandpa never had the same plan, but he was involved with the creators' plan? Involved in the same way as they were? Was he happy about the plan? Unhappy? Indifferent?

Were the creators expecting Grandpa to do anything in particular towards the plan? Did they ask him to do something? Did he do the thing/try to do the thing they wanted him to, and this was the incident which led to the computer alteration?

Is Grandpa their boss? Are they his bosses? Even though they don't have the same job, do they work in the same field?

Is "plan" the best word to use for what the creators were doing?
Is this line of questioning at all relevant?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Grandpa one of the people they employed to build the machine? No. Or can we assume that the builders are completely irrelevant to the story? The people who physically built the machine are irrelevant, yes. As i said before the people who had the plan and purchased the construction of the machine are the important ones.

I think I meant that was the plan they had just going to be a one-off event, and wouldn't actually alter their lives in any way after that? Yes.
Was the plan to do something to someone else? No. To Grandpa? Yes.

So Grandpa never had the same plan, but he was involved with the creators' plan? Yes. Involved in the same way as they were? Not positive what your getting at so i will say he was not involved in the same way. Was he happy about the plan? He may have been a little excited,... Unhappy? Indifferent? ...but would mostly be indifferent.

Were the creators expecting Grandpa to do anything in particular toward the plan? Yes. Did they ask him to do something? Yes. Did he do the thing/try to do the thing they wanted him to, and this was the incident which led to the computer alteration? Yes.

Is Grandpa their boss? No. Are they his bosses? No. Even though they don't have the same job, do they work in the same field? Yes.

Is "plan" the best word to use for what the creators were doing? Maybe not but it works well enough.
Is this line of questioning at all relevant? It really depends on how you think and what it is going to take to make you realize what is going on. So this may be working for you, i know i would be doing something similar, as i work well with questions spamming and brute force lateraling.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something about Grandpa which meant they asked him to do this thing? Could one of them not do it? Is it to do with Grandpa's job?

Did the original use of the machine have anything to do with a certain number of people having to be in a certain place (like in the supermarket)?

Did Grandpa actually succeed in doing the thing they asked him to do? But in the process the machine was altered?

Did the thing they wanted him to do involve programming the machine? Initiating the thing it was meant to be used for? Physical contact with the machine? Repairing the machine? Testing it in some way?

Hang on, so the plan was to do something to Grandpa? Even before they built the machine? Was it some kind of research? Experiment?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something about Grandpa which meant they asked him to do this thing? Yes. Could one of them not do it? None of them could have done it. Is it to do with Grandpa's job? Yes.

Did the original use of the machine have anything to do with a certain number of people having to be in a certain place (like in the supermarket)? No.

Did Grandpa actually succeed in doing the thing they asked him to do? Yope. But in the process the machine was altered? Yes.

Did the thing they wanted him to do involve programming the machine? No. Initiating the thing it was meant to be used for? Kind of... Physical contact with the machine? No. Repairing the machine? No. Testing it in some way? ...but this is closer.

Hang on, so the plan was to do something to Grandpa? In a way, Yes. Even before they built the machine? Yes. Was it some kind of research? Not really. Experiment? Much more like this. Definitely OTRT.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the creators scientists? Although you said that Grandpa wasn't. Would anyone with Grandpa's job do for them? Or just Grandpa? Or is Grandpa the only person with this specific job?

Is meeting Grandpa (and finding out his occupation) what caused them to think of the plan? Did they think of the plan then think "right we need someone with X job" and go and find someone which happened to be Grandpa?

When Grandpa was thinking "I wish I hadn't done that when I was younger" was he thinking about taking part in the 'experiment'? Or could he have taken part in the 'experiment' without the machine being altered, and it was something more specific?

Were the creators hoping to get knowledge from this plan? Was this machine experiment thing something they were doing in their own time, or was it actually part of their jobs?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the creators scientists? No. Although you said that Grandpa wasn't. Would anyone with Grandpa's job do for them? No. Or just Grandpa? Yes. Or is Grandpa the only person with this specific job? Others have it but a very select few.

Is meeting Grandpa (and finding out his occupation They already knew his occupation.) what caused them to think of the plan? Yes. Did they think of the plan then think "right we need someone with X job" and go and find someone which happened to be Grandpa? No.

When Grandpa was thinking "I wish I hadn't done that when I was younger" was he thinking about taking part in the 'experiment'? No. Or could he have taken part in the 'experiment' without the machine being altered, Yes. and it was something more specific? Yes.

Were the creators hoping to get knowledge from this plan? Yesish. Was this machine experiment thing something they were doing in their own time No., or was it actually part of their jobs? Yes.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the creators met each other before they met Grandpa?

Is there something unusual about Grandpa, other than his job? If someone saw Grandpa would they consider him unusual?

Was the experiment to find out what would happen if they imposed this force (weak version) on Grandpa? Is it to see how he would react under certain situations? Kind of like a myers-briggs test type thing? Did they pay Grandpa to take part in the experiment? Does the force measure something in his body eg heart rate, blood pressure etc?

Is the weak version of the force actually used in the experiment? Is the weak force the original purpose of the machine? Or a side effect?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oy vey, this puzzle is getting much too long.
I thought it would've been solved by now!
How've you been, Flemmy?
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Post Number: 164
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Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lol that's because it's only me asking questions at the moment, which i don't mind, but it means I'm gaining on the answer very very very slowly...
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm too lazy to read through all of it, so I'll just wait until you solve it, or until Flemmmehh gets bored and puts it to rest with a $p0ilahh.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Life's been good though I work in a summer camp and I'm not allowed to have the lappy in the cabin so answers to questions will come more slowly than before but i have a good system going now and should be consistent with checking once a day.

Had the creators met each other before they met Grandpa? Yes.

Is there something unusual about Grandpa, other than his job? No. If someone saw Grandpa would they consider him unusual? No.

Was the experiment to find out what would happen if they imposed this force (weak version) on Grandpa? Nope. Is it to see how he would react under certain situations? No. Kind of like a myers-briggs test type thing? No. Did they pay Grandpa to take part in the experiment? Yope.Does the force measure something in his body eg heart rate, blood pressure etc? No.

Is the weak version of the force actually used in the experiment? Yes, though beware of possible FA's to come from this. Is the weak force the original purpose of the machine? Somewhat this... Or a side effect? ...but mostly this.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Even if they didn't pay Grandpa do take part, did they do something for him in return? Something related to his job?

Is there someone else involved other than the creators and Grandpa (in the past bit not the supermarket bit)? Was anyone else present at the machine's alteration?

Was the weak version not so much "used" in the experiment as produced as a side effect to the experiment?

Is the stronger version of the force used in the supermarket bit still a side effect? Was the machine still doing the non-force-related purpose for which it was built but the force (strong version) happened as well?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, just read through this whole thread, hope i'm not butting in here.

Did the creators know that the weak version of the force was being produced when they performed their experiments? Did they know that it could get stronger? Did they know this was a risk when they originally performed the experiment? Did Grandpa? Is Grandpa essentially a guinea pig here? Or is he actually performing the experiment? Or observing and giving suggestions? Was there something that he didn't know about the machine, with the result that he accidentally altered it?

Antimatter relevant?

When you say the grocery store people disappeared, do you mean they... ceased to exist? were transferred to some other plane? were vaporized as part of a chain reaction? were vaporized and used as fuel? Did their constituent molecules continue to exist somewhere in this universe or any other? Did average people in the fictional world know this force existed? Did the scientists? Were they afraid of it, or indifferent?
Asiduodiego (Asiduodiego)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see if this is right.

People disappear. Grandpa, the "cause" or the "instigator" of all this, just casually witness the whole thing. Grandpa is the "cause" because he was indirectly involved in some kind of experiment related to the Computer/Machine that resulted in the people disappearing now. He feels regretful, and thinks that the Computer/Machine is malfunctioning, or something like that.

Now, I think the key of the riddle is the "skill" that Grandpa has that makes him so important, because as it's been said, the "makers/controlers" of the Computer/Machine made up all this idea of experiment because of Grandpa's skills.

So, some questions:

- Grandpa's skill is innate, or could be learned by "natural means"? (by "natural" I mean in the context of the Universe this thing is happening, for example, a "PHD in Machine/Computers that could make people disappear" in some college or some thing like that)
- Grandpa's experiment had to do something with setting some values on the Computer/Machine? (e.g., entering in the setting of parameters, and changin' things like "ValueX=40")
- That thing Grandpa did with the machine, has anything to do with number 40, by the way?

Oh, and I'm new. Greetings everyone. :P
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, July 03, 2009 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yabblesmacker

Even if they didn't pay Grandpa do take part, did they do something for him in return? Yes. Something related to his job? Yes.

Is there someone else involved other than the creators and Grandpa (in the past bit not the supermarket bit)? No relevant people. Was anyone else present at the machine's alteration? No.

Was the weak version not so much "used" in the experiment as produced as a side effect to the experiment? Yes.

Is the stronger version of the force used in the supermarket bit still a side effect? Yes. Was the machine still doing the non-force-related purpose for which it was built but the force (strong version) happened as well? Yes. This is a good way of describing it, I hope it helps you.

Ohlala8
YaY! New people! Not at all, in fact its good to get some new minds and some new ideas, because even if you don't solve it yourself you may trigger some one else to put some stuff together they may not have otherwise.

Did the creators know that the weak version of the force was being produced when they performed their experiments? Yes. Did they know that it could get stronger? No. Did they know this was a risk when they originally performed the experiment? No. Did Grandpa? No. Is Grandpa essentially a guinea pig here? Yes. Or is he actually performing the experiment? No. Or observing and giving suggestions? He could also be seen to doing this in a way but i would say mostly a guinea pig as stated before. Was there something that he didn't know about the machine, with the result that he accidentally altered it? No. But its not really relevant what cosmically or physically changed in the machine when it was altered so much as the event that took place that caused it to be altered.

Antimatter relevant? Nope.

When you say the grocery store people disappeared, do you mean they... ceased to exist? Yes. were transferred to some other plane? No. were vaporized as part of a chain reaction? No. were vaporized and used as fuel? No. Did their constituent molecules continue to exist somewhere in this universe or any other? No. Did average people in the fictional world know this force existed? Strong version, No. Weak version, while they may not have been aware of it specifically they still could have known of its existence. I hope this doesn't mislead you any. Did the scientists? See above. Were they afraid of it, or indifferent? Indifferent.

Asiduodiego Thanks for joining us! : )

Let's see if this is right.

People disappear. Grandpa, the "cause" or the "instigator" of all this, just casually witness the whole thing. Grandpa is the "cause" because he was indirectly involved in some kind of experiment related to the Computer/Machine that resulted in the people disappearing now. He feels regretful, and thinks that the Computer/Machine is malfunctioning, or something like that. Correct.

Now, I think the key of the riddle is the "skill" that Grandpa has that makes him so important, because as it's been said, the "makers/controllers" of the Computer/Machine made up all this idea of experiment because of Grandpa's skills. OTRT.

So, some questions:

- Grandpa's skill is innate No., or could be learned by "natural means"? Yes. (by "natural" I mean in the context of the Universe this thing is happening, for example, a "PHD in Machine/Computers that could make people disappear" in some college or some thing like that)
- Grandpa's experiment had to do something with setting some values on the Computer/Machine? No. (e.g., entering in the setting of parameters, and changin' things like "ValueX=40")
- That thing Grandpa did with the machine, has anything to do with number 40, by the way? In a round about way, yes, but don't dwell on the # 40 too much as its importance is not necessary for the puzzle to be solved.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, July 03, 2009 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's been a long time running with this puzzle so if you truly feel lost i am willing to give a hint upon request, other wise, good hunting!
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Saturday, July 04, 2009 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the machine's primary purpose have anything to do with people standing in line? Would it have been acting upon people? or objects? Was the object(s) of the primary purpose solid? if so, was it in the store? closer to the machine? farther? or was the machine not supposed to be acting on anything, but rather producing information?

In the test situation, would the machine have been carrying out this action upon grandpa? was grandpa physically altered? mentally? emotionally? did the machine discover something about him? but it couldn't have worked with anyone else who didn't have grandpa's skill, correct? was this a mental ability (making complex calculations in his head), physical (withstanding pain), or emotional (vulcan control)? Was there something about grandpa, aside from his skill, that the creators didn't know about? that caused the alteration in the machine? or was it a mistake on grandpa's part that caused this alteration? if either of these, then did grandpa know there was a possibility that the machine would be altered as a result of what he did? or did he only realize it when his children disappeared?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, July 04, 2009 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the machine's primary purpose have anything to do with people standing in line? Yope. Would it have been acting upon people? Yes. or objects? and Yes. Was the object(s) of the primary purpose solid? Yope. if so, was it in the store? Yes. closer to the machine? Yes. farther? Yes. or was the machine not supposed to be acting on anything No., but rather producing information? No.

In the test situation, would the machine have been carrying out this action upon grandpa? No. was grandpa physically altered? No. mentally? No. emotionally? Yes. beware of FA. did the machine discover something about him? No. but it couldn't have worked with anyone else who didn't have grandpa's skill, correct? Correct. was this a mental ability Yes. (making complex calculations in his head) and a little this., physical Yes. (withstanding pain) but not this., or emotional No. (vulcan control)? Was there something about grandpa, aside from his skill, that the creators didn't know about? Nope. that caused the alteration in the machine? Nope. or was it a mistake on grandpa's part that caused this alteration? Yes. if either of these, then did grandpa know there was a possibility that the machine would be altered as a result of what he did? No. or did he only realize it when his children disappeared? Yes.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Sunday, July 05, 2009 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, so this emotional alteration, was it permanent? If not, did it last... years? months? weeks? days? hours? minutes? seconds? Was this an artificial, outside manipulation of his emotions along the lines of alcohol or mood stabilizers? Or was it just that grandpa was happy/sad/upset/disappointed/relieved/whatever to perform his part in the experiment?

Was the machine intended to act indiscriminately upon everything within a certain radius? Everything on Earth? Were the people in the line the only ones vaporized? Was a certain formation needed to activate it? Along the lines of crops circles? Would the effects of the primary purpose have been permanent? Would most people agree they were positive? neutral? negative? Would this purpose have directly benefited the creators? humanity? "science"?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this puzzle is crazy!!! is the force a laser? is the machine located inside the supermarket? did the machine "go off" when they entered the line making the exact number of people in the line 40? is the machine used for counting? weighing? is grandpa a robot? are any of the characters other than the machine a robot?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the machines force happen other places than just the supermarket?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 5:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So sorry for the long wait. Had a serious problem with loss of internet.

Ohlala8

Okay, so this emotional alteration, was it permanent? No. If not, did it last... years? This. months? weeks? days? hours? minutes? seconds? Was this an artificial, outside manipulation of his emotions along the lines of alcohol or mood stabilizers? No. Or was it just that grandpa was happy/sad/upset/disappointed/relieved/whatever to perform his part in the experiment? This, but it was from the outcome of the experiment not just partaking in the experiment.

Was the machine intended to act indiscriminately upon everything within a certain radius? Yesish. Everything on Earth? Yesish. Were the people in the line the only ones vaporized? In this situation, Yes. Was a certain formation needed to activate it? YES! Along the lines of crops circles? Yes, but not this. Would the effects of the primary purpose have been permanent? Not really. Would most people agree they were positive? neutral? This. negative? Would this purpose have directly benefited the creators? Some what. humanity? A little. "science"? Yes.

Sugarshane Thanks for joining in and good luck.

this puzzle is crazy!!! is the force a laser? No. is the machine located inside the supermarket? No. did the machine "go off" when they entered the line making the exact number of people in the line 40? Yes and No. Definitely on the right track though. is the machine used for counting? Yope. weighing? No. is grandpa a robot? Grandpa is H/A/M. are any of the characters other than the machine a robot? No.

did the machines force happen other places than just the supermarket? It could have been happening other places at any time.

Again sorry for the long wait, so just to give a hint and try to make sure this gets jump started and again and put to bed soon i will say...

********HINT********
...a video game is involved in this.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the characters we've already discovered (grandpa, the kid, the parents, the people in the line, the creators) characters in a video game? Is the machine intended as a video game? Is the storyline inspired by something in a video game?

I'm a little confused about the sequence of events following the experiment, because you say that grandpa was emotionally affected by the outcome of the experiment, but he wasn't aware of the outcome insofar as it created this vaporizing force. Is this accurate? So after the experiment, was grandpa happy? sad? upset? disappointed? relieved? angry? depressed? confused? If he had known that the force had been created, would he have been happy? sad? upset? disappointed? relieved? angry? depressed? confused? Would he have been able to do anything to eradicate the force if he had known? To keep it from vaporizing his family? Could he at least have kept them from entering the line, and thus saved them?

If either grandpa or the kid had entered the line with the parents, would they also have been vaporized? Or would they have prevented the line from becoming the necessary formation, thus no one would have been vaporized?

Was the intended effect of the machine supposed to alter a living being or beings? alter an object or objects? Gather information?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I deeply apologise for the long hiatus but my access to the internet while working at summer camp was very limited. I hope to be prompt with my responses now that i am back home.

Are any of the characters we've already discovered (grandpa, the kid, the parents, the people in the line, the creators) characters in a video game? No. Is the machine intended as a video game? explain/rephrase. Is the storyline inspired by something in a video game? Yes and No.

I'm a little confused about the sequence of events following the experiment, because you say that grandpa was emotionally affected by the outcome of the experiment, but he wasn't aware of the outcome insofar as it created this vaporizing force. Is this accurate? Yes. So after the experiment, was grandpa happy? sad? upset? disappointed? <--This... relieved? angry? depressed? ...<--and this. confused? If he had known that the force had been created, would he have been happy? sad? <--This. upset? disappointed? relieved? angry? depressed? <--This. confused? Would he have been able to do anything to eradicate the force if he had known? Possibly, not likely. To keep it from vaporizing his family? Yes. Could he at least have kept them from entering the line, and thus saved them? Yes.

If either grandpa or the kid had entered the line with the parents, would they also have been vaporized? Yes. Or would they have prevented the line from becoming the necessary formation, thus no one would have been vaporized? No.

Was the intended effect of the machine supposed to alter a living being or beings? No. alter an object or objects? Yope. Gather information? No.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

video game= arcade game? is the boy playing the video game at this time? the parents? grandpa? does the line have something to do with the video game? was the line actually on the stores floor? was grandpa the creator of the video game? is "the machine" a video game itself? is this in the future?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

video game= arcade game? Yope, it can be referred to as an arcade game but i have no knowledge if it was ever released in a actual arcade system. is the boy playing the video game at this time? Define "this time" the parents? same grandpa? same does the line have something to do with the video game? Yes. was the line actually on the stores floor? No. was grandpa the creator of the video game? No. is "the machine" a video game itself? No, but OTRT. is this in the future? No, time would be presentish, possibly older than now.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So this is a fictional story that is intended to be made into a movie at some point, right? But the video game in question is a real video game that exists in the real world?

Video game genre relevant? If so, is it a platformer? Adventure? Text adventure? RPG? War-themed? First person shooter? Abstract shapes (something along the lines of Tetris, Dr. Mario, or even Pong)? Sports game? Driving game? Other?

Age/technology of video game relevant? If so, Atari era? NES era? Super Nintendo/Sega Genesis era? N64/PS2/Xbox era? Current era (Wii/PS3/Xbox360)? (not that I'm using the console generations to approximate time and technology level. I'm not specifically asking which console it was made for -- although if that's relevant, then please tell).

Is the machine the computer/video game system the game is being played on? Is the machine a central server for the game?

Did the machine react because a certain maximum number of people for the line was surpassed? (for example, only 10 people were allowed in the line, but the boy's parents make #s 11 and 12)
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

virtual reality relevant?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel

So this is a fictional story that is intended to be made into a movie at some point, right? Correct. But the video game in question is a real video game that exists in the real world? Yes.

Video game genre relevant? No. If so, is it a platformer? No. Adventure? No. Text adventure? No. RPG? No. War-themed? No. First person shooter? No. Abstract shapes (something along the lines of Tetris, Dr. Mario, or even Pong)? Yes. Tetris. Sports game? No. Driving game? No. Other? No.

Age/technology of video game relevant? No. If so, Atari era? NES era? Super Nintendo/Sega Genesis era? N64/PS2/Xbox era? Current era (Wii/PS3/Xbox360)? (not that I'm using the console generations to approximate time and technology level. I'm not specifically asking which console it was made for -- although if that's relevant, then please tell).

Is the machine the computer/video game system the game is being played on? No. Is the machine a central server for the game? No.

Did the machine react because a certain maximum number of people for the line was surpassed? No. (for example, only 10 people were allowed in the line, but the boy's parents make #s 11 and 12)

Sugarshane

virtual reality relevant? No.

Good questions guys. Thanks for keeping it alive with it so close to completion.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about that a correction needs to be made.

"Video game genre relevant?" Yes.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So in Tetris, a line disappears when it's full. In this story, a line of people disappears when it's full, right? Is it some sort of human Tetris game?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So in Tetris, a line disappears when it's full. In this story, a line of people disappears when it's full, right? Yes. Is it some sort of human Tetris game? Yes and No. Your so close now.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I keep thinking about the movie (can't remember the name) with the little boy who plays the game "Thermonuclear War" without realizing at first that his actions when playing the game could have an impact on the real world. Is this scenario anything like that?

Also, is anyone "steering" his parents and the others into which line to go in?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I keep thinking about the movie (can't remember the name) with the little boy who plays the game "Thermonuclear War" without realizing at first that his actions when playing the game could have an impact on the real world. Is this scenario anything like that? Never seen the movie so it did not influence this, but it sounds similar.

Also, is anyone "steering" his parents and the others into which line to go in? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So someone is playing the game? But it's not the boy? and it's not the grandfather? And it's not the parents?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So someone is playing the game? Yope. But it's not the boy? Yope. and it's not the grandfather? Yope. And it's not the parents? Yope.

Sorry about the ambigous answers, those are tough questions. One thing i can say is though while i said this situation is similar to what you described before, you must not let that hang you up and get stuck in a rut. I had no previous knowledge of that example so any similarities are merely coincidence. Good luck and beware of False Assumptions!
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alright, here goes...

Summary (of DOOM!!!):

A long time ago, when Grandpa was young(er), he was involved in an experiment in which a group of scientist-type persons constructed (or rather, had constructed) a machine/computer, and they needed Grandpa's specific talents (learn-able at any first-rate, ridiculously competitive university) to test (operate?) it. During this testing/operating, Grandpa was the subject of the machine, much like a guinea pig. (Did it take Grandpa's skills to be the guinea pig, or would any person do, and it was for other things Grandpa was needed?) Also during this, Grandpa knowingly but inadvertently altered the machine by changing the code, causing the weak force (which had been anticipated by the creators) the machine produced as a side-effect to be supplemented by a stronger version of the same force.

In the present, Grandpa is at the supermarket with his grandson and his grandson's parents. The kid leaves his parents to go say "hi" to grandpa, and as he does, his parents join the checkout line. Their joining of the line causes some conditions to be fulfilled (one of which is that it must be a line (of people?)), and the machine is triggered, instantly annihilating all the people in the line with the (strong? weak?) force.

All of this is based upon a fictional (real-world and sci-fi inspired) setting created for a movie based on Tetris.

I may have gotten a few things wrong, seeing how I haven't actively been keeping track of this puzzle for a while. If someone sees a mistake before Flem responds, please feel free to correct my errors for the Greater Good of Puzzle-Solvers everywhere. Also, any details anyone cares to add would be very helpful. Perhaps we want to just copy-paste this summary into each subsequent post (highlighting changes, of course) so that we can build a more complete picture all at once?

And now for original thought!

Is the fictional world taking place within the concept of a "video game" (meaning, there is an overarching "world mechanic" (think of how D&D governs the world of OOTS) in which Grandpa and his family operate)?
Are they aware of this?
Is the game being "run", but not "played" in the usual sense of a person operating the controller/keyboard/whatever?
Is there some sort of Matrix element in which everyone in the world is actually not really there, but is some sort of avatar/representation/digitization of themselves?

(Apologies if the nested parenthesis throw people off.)
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel -- The movie you're trying to think of is "War Games" (with Matthew Broderick... I love that it was completely normal for all boys in the 80s to be hackers, and making their way into highly classified government supercomputers on a regular basis - 'cause life's no fun if you can't change your grades in the school's system and then hijack highly sensitive gov't equipment all in the same day).

Caesar -- I don't believe it was ever said that this was based on a movie...

That being said, is this based on a movie?

Forgive me if some of these have been asked before...
Did the machine achieve a level of sentience its creators did not originally plan for? Did it want to play a game? of Tetris? Did it simply malfunction? because of the altered code/programming?

As to why this line of people got killed (as opposed to any other): Does the machine have a certain area in which it can operate (carry out the killing)? and this store lies within that area? Does it have some way to monitor this store (like closed circuit cameras)? or the area (like radar)? Is there no other line that meets the requirements for destruction? within the machine's area of operation? anywhere? Does gaining the two people make this line suddenly seem hostile to the machine? Does it make any significant monitoring system register the line of people as "unfriendly"? Or does it simply make the line satisfy the criteria the machine has for destruction?
Noel (Noel)
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Kalira - thank you. You're right, it was War Games. Although this situation doesn't sound all that similar to War Games, of course.
And he said it was based on a movie that hasn't been made yet (in other words, I think a friend of his wrote a script or a screenplay about this).

Is the family somehow pulled into a video game?

Is someone in the family dreaming about playing a video game?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Bah... that's what I get for not going back and verifying answers before I post things. My apologies.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Caesarachilles

Alright, here goes... Ok.

Summary (of DOOM!!!):

A long time ago, when Grandpa was young(er), he was involved in an experiment in which a group of scientist-type persons constructed (or rather, had constructed) a machine/computer, and they needed Grandpa's specific talents (learn-able at any first-rate, ridiculously competitive university) to test (operate? No.) it. Correct. During this testing/operating, Grandpa was the subject of the machine, much like a guinea pig. Correct. (Did it take Grandpa's skills to be the guinea pig, Yes. or would any person do, No. and it was for other things Grandpa was needed? No.) Also during this, Grandpa knowingly but inadvertently altered the machine by changing the code, causing the weak force (which had been anticipated by the creators) the machine produced as a side-effect to be supplemented by a stronger version of the same force. Correct.

In the present, Grandpa is at the supermarket with his grandson and his grandson's parents. The kid leaves his parents to go say "hi" to grandpa, and as he does, his parents join the checkout line. Correct. Their joining of the line causes some conditions to be fulfilled (one of which is that it must be a line (of people? No.) Yes.), and the machine is triggered, instantly annihilating all the people in the line with the (strong? Yes. weak? No.) force. Correct.

All of this is based upon a fictional (real-world and sci-fi inspired) setting created for a movie based on Tetris. Yes.

I may have gotten a few things wrong, seeing how I haven't actively been keeping track of this puzzle for a while. Correct. If someone sees a mistake before Flem responds, please feel free to correct my errors for the Greater Good of Puzzle-Solvers everywhere. Good idea. Also, any details anyone cares to add would be very helpful. I'm on it. Perhaps we want to just copy-paste this summary into each subsequent post (highlighting changes, of course) so that we can build a more complete picture all at once? I like that idea, as it is a very complex situation as this summary shows.

And now for original thought! Ok.

Is the fictional world taking place within the concept of a "video game" (meaning, there is an overarching "world mechanic" (think of how D&D governs the world of OOTS) in which Grandpa and his family operate)? Yes.
Are they aware of this? Define they.
Is the game being "run", but not "played" in the usual sense of a person operating the controller/keyboard/whatever? Yes.
Is there some sort of Matrix element in which everyone in the world is actually not really there, but is some sort of avatar/representation/digitization of themselves? No.

(Apologies if the nested parenthesis throw people off.) Apologies if my nested answers throw people off.

Kalira

That being said, is this based on a movie? See below.

Forgive me if some of these have been asked before...
Did the machine achieve a level of sentience its creators did not originally plan for? Yes. Did it want to play a game? Yes. of Tetris? Yes. Did it simply malfunction? Yope. because of the altered code/programming? Yes.

As to why this line of people got killed (as opposed to any other): Does the machine have a certain area in which it can operate (carry out the killing)? Yes. I believe this has been asked before but, the area was never defined really. and this store lies within that area? Yes. Does it have some way to monitor this store (like closed circuit cameras)? No. or the area (like radar)? No. Is there no other line that meets the requirements for destruction? No. Due to tricky double negative i will rephrase. Are there other lines that meet the requirements for destruction? Yes. within the machine's area of operation? Yes, there are others within the area. anywhere? Yes, there are others. Does gaining the two people make this line suddenly seem hostile to the machine? No. Does it make any significant monitoring system register the line of people as "unfriendly"? No. Or does it simply make the line satisfy the criteria the machine has for destruction? Yes.

Noel

Kalira - thank you. You're right, it was War Games. Although this situation doesn't sound all that similar to War Games, of course.
And he said it was based on a movie that hasn't been made yet (in other words, I think a friend of his wrote a script or a screenplay about this). Correct.

Is the family somehow pulled into a video game? No.

Is someone in the family dreaming about playing a video game? No.
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh my goodness. Is this still going on?
:] Did ya miss mee?
Noel (Noel)
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Are the other lines that meet the requirements of destruction also lines of people? Or are they lines of some other countable item? Or are they a different type of line (such as one drawn on paper)?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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New user here! This is fun.
Would any other line in the machine's area of effect be annihilated? Line of anything other than people? Are the people annihilated in the same way a value in a computer is overwritten? Or as in never having existed in the first place? Does the machine use sensors "inside" the universe (such as a camera) or does it know about/sense/affect the mechanics of the universe itself (like a computer running a program)? Does the machine think it's playing tetris? Was the machine supposed to think it played tetris originally? Was it supposed to be a game, but due to the error it plays the game by itself? Is granpa's skill intellectual, physical (strength, agility etc), or special (really good tetris player or something)?
Was it random that just this line disappeared, since there were others in the area that were not? Or was there something special about it? Closest tot he machine? First to meet requirements? Will other lines be disappeared if the machine is left running as it is? Did the act of disappearing the line alter the state of the machine? Did it stop? Did it break? Gain/lose something? Gain a point in a game? Did the machine intend to disappear something, but not people? Was it supposed to disappear something in its own memory, but somehow it got hooked up to the mechanics of this world (the world in which the machine, the queue and the rest of the puzzle exists) and started disappearing things from that world instead? Did it know it was disappearing people? Did it think it was something else? Does the machine think it's performing its intended function?
Is the boy the key to all this? Is he a normal boy (human, born to his parents, no exceptional skills/talents/origin/life experiences before this happened)? Can we solve everything if we just ask the correct question about the boy?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Pikachizzle

Oh my goodness. Is this still going on? Yes.
:] Did ya miss mee? Yes.

Noel

Are the other lines that meet the requirements of destruction also lines of people? Yes... Or are they lines of some other countable item? ...and Yes. Or are they a different type of line (such as one drawn on paper)? No.

Galfisk

Then welcome, and might i add that i feel honored that your first post was on my puzzle (meaning you probably bothered to read all that). Good luck.

Would any other line in the machine's area of effect be annihilated? Yes, thought see above. Line of anything other than people? See above. Are the people annihilated in the same way a value in a computer is overwritten? No. Or as in never having existed in the first place? I feel we covered this a while ago but since it has been so long i will say, they just stop existing. Does the machine use sensors "inside" the universe (such as a camera) No. or does it know about/sense/affect the mechanics of the universe itself (like a computer running a program)? Yes. Does the machine think it's playing tetris? Yes. Was the machine supposed to think it played tetris originally? Yes. Was it supposed to be a game, but due to the error it plays the game by itself? rephrase this question please. Is granpa's skill intellectual, physical (strength, agility etc), or special (really good tetris player or something YES!!!)?
Was it random that just this line disappeared, since there were others in the area that were not? No. Or was there something special about it? Yes. Closest tot he machine? No. First to meet requirements? FA. Will other lines be disappeared if the machine is left running as it is? Yes. Did the act of disappearing the line alter the state of the machine? No. Did it stop? No.Did it break? No. Gain/lose something? No. Gain a point in a game? No. Did the machine intend to disappear something, but not people? Yope. Was it supposed to disappear something in its own memory, but somehow it got hooked up to the mechanics of this world (the world in which the machine, the queue and the rest of the puzzle exists) and started disappearing things from that world instead? Yope. Did it know it was disappearing people? No. Did it think it was something else? No. Does the machine think it's performing its intended function? \bYes.}
Is the boy the key to all this? No. Is he a normal boy (human, born to his parents, no exceptional skills/talents/origin/life experiences before this happened)? Yes. Can we solve everything if we just ask the correct question about the boy? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fun! (:
Forgive me if I don't remember all the facts from the previous posts, it is a quite long thread. I did re-read the summary before typing the below.
Rephrasing the question you asked me to: Was the machine designed to merely be played by someone, or was it designed to play tetris by itself? Did granpa program/teach the machine to play tetris? Or just play it better than before? Or in a different way? Did he compete with it? Is playing tetris its main/intended function? Is disappearing lines of objects a side effect of that? If the machine worked as intended, would it have made any physical objects disappear then? Does the machine alter the physical world around it in any other way than making lines of things disappear? Such as moving things, or making things appear? Will it keep disappearing lines fulfilling the criteria until there are none left within its range? If so, will that (the disappearance) happen with regular intervals? Seconds/minutes/hours/days/weeks/[...]/millennia?
Does the machine percieve that it's running a normal game of tetris - ie moving and rotating blocks, finding the best locations to fit them in, trying to get more points by making several rows of blocks disappear at once? If it is, will a line disappear from the real world every time it does in the game? If so, will anything different happen if there are no more lines left in the real world?
Does the machine's awareness cover anything else, for example does it know it's a machine? If not, could it know if it was made aware of it, or is it not advanced/"conscious" enough? Does it consciously locate and delete lines, as in "oh look, another line, delete" or is it done automatically?
Does granpa know exactly what's happening and why? (by exactly, I mean that from seeing the line of people disappear into thin air, does he realize it's caused by the machine? Specifically the change he did to it? Was he in the supermarket at the time to observe/partake/be subject to the (intended) effects of the machine? Was the machine supposed to affect the supermarket at all? Does the machine have another intended function in addition to, or as a result of, playing tetris? For example, is the result of the tetris game also the result of a calculation? The answer to a problem? Is the machine itself and/or its intended function related to the supermarket?
Does any line of similar objects meet the criteria for destruction? Can they be small (grains of sand, marbles, cans, dogs), large (shelves, cars, buildings, cities)? Curved? Moving? Will a line which includes one dissimilar item of similar size disqualify for deletion? Would a line of adults with one child in the middle be deleted? Are the exact criteria for deletion relevant, other than the fact that a certain number of similar objects are needed?
If you, knowing the rules for deletion, were inside said supermarket, could you easily determine which lines would be deleted? would you know the order it would happen? The time it would happen?
Does the people who turned on the machine realize what's happening? Will they realize it without someone telling them? Will they also disappear if they can form a disappearable line?
Could the machine disappear itself, or parts of itself, if it was under the impression that it fulfilled the criteria? If so, would it do that?
Are my lines of questioning relevant?
Once/if they realize what the strong force is doing, can it be made to target anything - or is disappearing lines of stuff integral to the functioning of the force itself? Can it be made into a weapon? Could the force theoretically exist in our universe? Does it? Or is it something about the mechanics of the puzzle universe that makes it possible? Is the machine hooked up to the puzzle universe itself somehow (ie what it's doing and what it's sensing is done by reading/writing to the state of the universe itself, rather than by physical means within the universe)? It seems to be something like this... If yes, was it intended to do so? If yope, does the universe exist inside the machine while the machine simultaneously exists inside the same universe? (:good sci-fi stories are often convoluted)
I can ask tons of more questions if I just let my brain freewheel, but I fear they'll become more and more irrelevant...
Elfer (Elfer)
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the entire situation with the supermarket and the disappearing line of people occurring within a simulation that is being run on the machine?

If not, is the machine a computer with the ability to manipulate matter that exists in the same physical universe as the machine itself?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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I am going to space this out for my own sanity but i would like to request that all future novels be spaced out by the original poster. I love new questions but would also like to make sure that they are easy for me, and others reading them, to follow.

Fun! (:
Forgive me if I don't remember all the facts from the previous posts, it is a quite long thread. I did re-read the summary before typing the below. NO MERCY!

Rephrasing the question you asked me to: Was the machine designed to merely be played by someone, or was it designed to play tetris by itself? No to both.
Did granpa program/teach the machine to play tetris? No. Or just play it better than before? No. Or in a different way? No.
Did he compete with it? Yes.
Is playing tetris its main/intended function? Yes.
Is disappearing lines of objects a side effect of that? Yes.
If the machine worked as intended, would it have made any physical objects disappear then? No.
Does the machine alter the physical world around it in any other way than making lines of things disappear? No. Such as moving things, or making things appear? No. Will it keep disappearing lines fulfilling the criteria until there are none left within its range? Yes. If so, will that (the disappearance) happen with regular intervals? No. Seconds/minutes/hours/days/weeks/[...]/millennia?
Does the machine percieve that it's running a normal game of tetris - ie moving and rotating blocks, finding the best locations to fit them in, trying to get more points by making several rows of blocks disappear at once? No. If it is, will a line disappear from the real world every time it does in the game? See above. If so, will anything different happen if there are no more lines left in the real world? See above.
Does the machine's awareness cover anything else, for example does it know it's a machine? IRR. If not, could it know if it was made aware of it, or is it not advanced/"conscious" enough? Not advanced enought, but IRR. Does it consciously locate and delete lines, as in "oh look, another line, delete" or is it done automatically? Automatically.
Does granpa know exactly what's happening and why? See bellow. (by exactly, I mean that from seeing the line of people disappear into thin air, does he realize it's caused by the machine? Yes. Specifically the change he did to it? Yes. Was he in the supermarket at the time to observe/partake/be subject to the (intended) effects of the machine? No. Was the machine supposed to affect the supermarket at all? No.
Does the machine have another intended function in addition to, or as a result of, playing tetris? No. For example, is the result of the tetris game also the result of a calculation? No. The answer to a problem? No. Is the machine itself and/or its intended function related to the supermarket? No.
Does any line of similar objects meet the criteria for destruction? Yes. Can they be small (grains of sand, marbles, cans, dogs), large (shelves, cars, buildings, cities)? Would say most things from a marble size up to a car size. Curved? No. IRR. Moving? No. IRR. Will a line which includes one dissimilar item of similar size disqualify for deletion? Yes. thought somewhat IRR. Would a line of adults with one child in the middle be deleted? Yes. but still somewhat IRR. Are the exact criteria for deletion relevant, other than the fact that a certain number of similar objects are needed? No.
If you, knowing the rules for deletion, were inside said supermarket, could you easily determine which lines would be deleted? Yes. would you know the order it would happen? No. The time it would happen? Yes.
Does the people who turned on the machine realize what's happening? No. Will they realize it without someone telling them? Maybe, IRR. Will they also disappear if they can form a disappearable line? Yes.
Could the machine disappear itself, or parts of itself, if it was under the impression that it fulfilled the criteria? Yes. If so, would it do that? Yes.
Are my lines of questioning relevant? Some of them, you should be able to tell from the answers.
Once/if they realize what the strong force is doing, can it be made to target anything No.- or is disappearing lines of stuff integral to the functioning of the force itself? Yes. Can it be made into a weapon? Yes, thought anything could be if used the right way, and yet IRR. Could the force theoretically exist in our universe? No. Does it? No. Or is it something about the mechanics of the puzzle universe that makes it possible? Yes. Is the machine hooked up to the puzzle universe itself somehow (ie what it's doing and what it's sensing is done by reading/writing to the state of the universe itself, rather than by physical means within the universe)? Sure, thought lets just say its like magic, that way it needs no explanation. It seems to be something like this... If yes, was it intended to do so? If yope, does the universe exist inside the machine while the machine simultaneously exists inside the same universe? (:good sci-fi stories are often convoluted) See above.
I can ask tons of more questions if I just let my brain freewheel, but I fear they'll become more and more irrelevant...Probably, some times its best to just wait and see what the puzzler has to say so you can ask more directed questions, these are good thought.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Is the entire situation with the supermarket and the disappearing line of people occurring within a simulation that is being run on the machine? No.

If not, is the machine a computer with the ability to manipulate matter that exists in the same physical universe as the machine itself? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Can do (the spacing out of questions).
So granpa competed with the machine in Tetris. Did it become better than intended? Or did it malfunction somehow? Is the machine cheating?

Does the scientific advancement the creators expected come from the fact that Tetris is NP-complete? Or is it an advancement in machine learning? Does it matter?

Is the machine producing some kind of output? Printout? Screen image/text? Meaningful sound? Data in some other form? If yes, is it producing the data it was supposed to?

Does the machine think it's in the process of collapsing a Tetris puzzle, by getting rid of complete lines? Is it essentially the row deletion function of tetris running on the universe insted of the game board? Would it help to figure out more about the exact nature of this universe?

Did granpa change the machine directly (or ask for a change to be made), or did he change it by competing with it? Did he want it to be more challenging? Did it involve changing the rules of tetris?

Did granpa or the researchers (the people building/operating the machine) know it could produce the strong force? Or suspect? If they knew, did they choose proceed despite the risks, or was the machine started by accident/negligence? Was the change producing the strong force done by accident/negligence?

Is row deletion the weak force, and row deletion of the puzzle world the strong force? does the machine percieve the world as a level of Tetris? Are the rules of this world based on a computer game or board game?

So...knowing the rules, standing in the supermarket you know which lines will be deleted, and when a deletion will happen, but not in which order. Is there a specific order at all? If you were there before the machine started, would you know that this particular line would be first? You said there was something particular about this line, would it help if we knew more about why it went first? Did it have to do with its location? Orientation? Size of the component parts (human size)? composition (humans)? Time of forming? Had the machine been running for a while, or did this happen as soon as it was turned on? Relevant?

The disappearances aren't happening at regular intervals. Is there a visible pattern? Like one the first minute, three the next, 1-3-1-3 and so on - or some other easily discernable pattern? Can more than one row disappear at once? Is discerning this pattern relevant/helpful?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Additional: if the game of tetris was changed somehow: was the size of the game area changed? Was it changed to be based on reality instead of a game board? Was it supposed to read data from reality but not write to it?
Granpa seems to know a lot. Does he know about the rules of the universe making what's happening possible? Is he a physicist? Would being really good at tetris sort of make one a physicist in this universe? Another way of asking: are the rules of the universe based on tetris?
Should we ask more questions about granpa? Is he/does he know something vital we haven't uncovered?
Are there other important people/objects we haven't uncovered? Is this list correct:
important (things we must know more about): the machine, its creators, granpa, the nature of the world they exist in. The original purpose of the machine.
less important (things we already know everything relevant about): the boy, his now nonexistent parents, the supermarket
not really important: the location of the machine, other people associated to the machine or the supermarket, the nature/location of the supermarket

Would it help to determine the size of the area the machine affects? If yes, LTPF list of areas, if there is such a thing (building/block/city/county/[...]/universe?). would it help to determine size or other physical characteristics of the machine itself?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Can do (the spacing out of questions).
So granpa competed with the machine in Tetris. Correct.Did it become better than intended? No. Or did it malfunction somehow? Yes. Is the machine cheating? No.

Does the scientific advancement the creators expected come from the fact that Tetris is NP-complete? Or is it an advancement in machine learning? Does it matter? This all confuses the hell out of me, what does NP mean?

Is the machine producing some kind of output? Printout? Screen image/text? Meaningful sound? Data in some other form? If yes, is it producing the data it was supposed to? No to all.

Does the machine think it's in the process of collapsing a Tetris puzzle, by getting rid of complete lines? Yope. Is it essentially the row deletion function of tetris running on the universe insted of the game board? Yes. Would it help to figure out more about the exact nature of this universe? Not at all.

Did granpa change the machine directly (or ask for a change to be made) No., or did he change it by competing with it? Yes. Did he want it to be more challenging? No. Did it involve changing the rules of tetris? No.

Did granpa or the researchers (the people building/operating the machine) know it could produce the strong force? No. Or suspect? No. If they knew, did they choose proceed despite the risks, or was the machine started by accident/negligence? See above. Was the change producing the strong force done by accident/negligence? Yes.

Is row deletion the weak force, and row deletion of the puzzle world the strong force? If you mean row deletion in the Tetris game is the weak force and row deletion in the real world is the strong force, then yes. does the machine percieve the world as a level of Tetris? No. Are the rules of this world based on a computer game or board game? This has been asked a lot in many different ways and the answer is still Yope.

So...knowing the rules, standing in the supermarket you know which lines will be deleted, and when a deletion will happen, but not in which order. Is there a specific order at all? If you were there before the machine started, would you know that this particular line would be first? You said there was something particular about this line, would it help if we knew more about why it went first? Did it have to do with its location? Orientation? Size of the component parts (human size)? composition (humans)? Time of forming? Honestly all the information is present in this puzzle to know this by now but it is so buried that i will tell you (i also feel like this is blatantly obvious your just over thinking it). It's like tetris, very simple, a line goes away when its full. This line was special only because it had 10 people in it (the information of 10 was given earlier if you read back) no more no less. You know which lines will disappear because you can see that they are about to gain 10 things. Also i never said this was the first line, in fact (buried back in other posts), i said that other lines in other places are, and will also vanish, so that is a FA.

Had the machine been running for a while No., or did this happen as soon as it was turned on? Yes. Relevant? a little but not too much.

The disappearances aren't happening at regular intervals. Is there a visible pattern? Like one the first minute, three the next, 1-3-1-3 and so on - or some other easily discernable pattern? Can more than one row disappear at once? Is discerning this pattern relevant/helpful? See rant above.
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Additional: if the game of tetris was changed somehow: was the size of the game area changed? Was it changed to be based on reality instead of a game board? Was it supposed to read data from reality but not write to it?
Granpa seems to know a lot. Does he know about the rules of the universe making what's happening possible? Is he a physicist? Would being really good at tetris sort of make one a physicist in this universe? Another way of asking: are the rules of the universe based on tetris?
Should we ask more questions about granpa? Is he/does he know something vital we haven't uncovered?
Are there other important people/objects we haven't uncovered? Is this list correct:
important (things we must know more about): the machine, its creators, granpa, the nature of the world they exist in. The original purpose of the machine.
less important (things we already know everything relevant about): the boy, his now nonexistent parents, the supermarket
not really important: the location of the machine, other people associated to the machine or the supermarket, the nature/location of the supermarket

Would it help to determine the size of the area the machine affects? If yes, LTPF list of areas, if there is such a thing (building/block/city/county/[...]/universe?). would it help to determine size or other physical characteristics of the machine itself?

I'm going to hold off on answering these questions because while some of them are good some are leaving the scope of what your trying to achieve. Remember you really are only trying to put as much together as is necessary to laterally conclude how the events in the original puzzle were to take place. Basically everything you need to know has already been said in this puzzle you just need to go back through and put it all together, the more succinct the better. I will continue answering questions once there has been another recap posted (one that is more succinct than Caesars, not that his wasn't good its just that the longer it is the harder it is to follow).
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap (but I'm no good at succinct. This is the best I can do with this incredibly complicated scenario).

-A machine is built that plays tetris.
-Grandpa is a master Tetris player.
-Grandpa plays Tetris against the machine.
-In some way the machine's Tetris abilities are improved as a result of the competition with Grandpa. Did the machine's programmers add some of Grandpa's techniques to the program? Did they boost up the machine's processing speed to make it better at Tetris? Something similar?

- The machine somehow gains a new ability, which is to eliminate lines of objects in the real world. It seems like we're still trying to figure out how, or what the connection is between the Grandpa challenge match and ability to eliminate real world stuff. Are we?
- Those lines are eliminated when the line reaches 10. (Although I thought somewhere in this puzzle you said more than 10. Can't find it now, though).

- Years after the Grandpa/machine challenge match, the boy (grandson) and his parents are in a store.
- The boy sees grandpa and says hi.
- The parents go to the line, which equals 10 people (or exceeds 10?) and they are vaporized by the machine.
- Grandpa regrets playing the Tetris machine in his past.

There still seem to be a couple of giant holes in the middle, but is that right so far?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap (but I'm no good at succinct. This is the best I can do with this incredibly complicated scenario). This is good, just what i was looking for.

-A machine is built that plays tetris. Correct
-Grandpa is a master Tetris player. Correct.
-Grandpa plays Tetris against the machine. Correct.
-In some way the machine's Tetris abilities are improved as a result of the competition with Grandpa. Correct. Did the machine's programmers add some of Grandpa's techniques to the program? FA Did they boost up the machine's processing speed to make it better at Tetris? FA Something similar? See above.

- The machine somehow gains a new ability, which is to eliminate lines of objects in the real world. Correct. It seems like we're still trying to figure out how, or what the connection is between the Grandpa challenge match and ability to eliminate real world stuff. Are we? Yes.
- Those lines are eliminated when the line reaches 10. (Although I thought somewhere in this puzzle you said more than 10. Can't find it now, though). I may have, use either because it doesn't really matter, its just that tetris the game uses lines of 10.

- Years after the Grandpa/machine challenge match, the boy (grandson) and his parents are in a store. Correct.
- The boy sees grandpa and says hi. Correct.
- The parents go to the line, which equals 10 people (or exceeds 10?) See above. and they are vaporized by the machine. Correct.
- Grandpa regrets playing the Tetris machine in his past. Yope.

There still seem to be a couple of giant holes in the middle, but is that right so far? Yes, and i don't believe your holes are that giant. There are little detailed pieces of information you don't know but they also arn't relevant to completely piecing together the parts you need to. I really only see one spot where there is pertinent information missing and literally only one question is needed to get the gap well on its way to being filled.

Now that we have a great summary i'll be up to answering questions.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When grandpa plays against the machine, is he physically pressing buttons on the machine itself? Does he unintentionally activate a new setting? Is this the version of Tetris where you just keep landing blocks and it gets faster and faster until you make enough mistakes that there's no room for more? Or are there levels? Is he playing tetris "against" the machine in the sense that the machine is playing tetris on another screen and someone will lose first? Or just in the sense that he's trying to make it to a high level? Did they need grandpa to test it in order to see what happens when someone is able to play for a long period of time? When someone gets to a certain high level?

Is the change that occurred in the machine something that grandpa changed by accident while he was playing? Something he did on purpose, but didn't realize it would have that effect (e.g. changing it to "lefty mode") Some development the machine made as a result of his playing? Some glitch in the programming activated by his playing?
Elfer (Elfer)
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did grandpa flippantly remark "Get real" at some point, and the machine took it WAY TOO FRIGGIN' SERIOUSLY??
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When grandpa plays against the machine, is he physically pressing buttons on the machine itself? No. Does he unintentionally activate a new setting? No. Is this the version of Tetris where you just keep landing blocks and it gets faster and faster until you make enough mistakes that there's no room for more? Yes. Or are there levels? No. Is he playing tetris "against" the machine in the sense that the machine is playing tetris on another screen and someone will lose first? Yes. Or just in the sense that he's trying to make it to a high level? No. Did they need grandpa to test it in order to see what happens when someone is able to play for a long period of time? No. When someone gets to a certain high level? No.

Is the change that occurred in the machine something that grandpa changed by accident while he was playing? No. Something he did on purpose, but didn't realize it would have that effect (e.g. changing it to "lefty mode") Some development the machine made as a result of his playing? Yes. Some glitch in the programming activated by his playing? No.

Did grandpa flippantly remark "Get real" at some point, and the machine took it WAY TOO FRIGGIN' SERIOUSLY?? No, but its a good question because the head that this idea came out of could have possibly made it something as simple as that.

OOOOO...good questions i wonder where this will lead?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Grandpa the l33t t3tr15 pl4y3r is recruited to play Tetris against The Machine for the purpose of improving The Machine's ability to play via some sort of machine learning, neural network, or some other programming concept in which a machine learns to play a game better by playing games, correct?
And although it did not actually become "better" at Tetris, it did develop a "mutation" that allowed it's Force to act outside the parameters of the Tetris game, thus affecting the "Real World".
Do we need to know anything more about this "mutation", or simply that it happened?

Have we already asked if someone is playing against The Machine right now? Is someone playing against The Machine right now? Does it matter who is winning? Is The Machine winning? The Player? About even? Is the other player making people/lines disappear as well?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Grandpa the l33t t3tr15 pl4y3r is recruited to play Tetris against The Machine for the purpose of improving The Machine's ability to play via some sort of machine learning, neural network, or some other programming concept in which a machine learns to play a game better by playing games, correct? FA.

And although it did not actually become "better" at Tetris, it did develop a "mutation" that allowed it's Force to act outside the parameters of the Tetris game, thus affecting the "Real World". Correct.
Do we need to know anything more about this "mutation", or simply that it happened? There is one other thing you could know about the "mutation" that would be useful but it most likely wont come from asking directed questions about the "mutation" so for the purpose of this question i will say, NO.

Have we already asked if someone is playing against The Machine right now? Yes. Is someone playing against The Machine right now? No. Does it matter who is winning? See above. Is The Machine winning? See above. The Player? See above. About even? See above. Is the other player making people/lines disappear as well? See above.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Grandpa is a l33t t3tr15 pl4y3r? He is recruited to play Tetris against The Machine? For the purpose of improving The Machine's ability to play? The Machine learns via some sort of machine learning? (It's a technical term...really.) Neural network? Some other programming concept in which a machine learns to play a game better by playing games?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 6:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Grandpa is a l33t t3tr15 pl4y3r? Yes. He is recruited to play Tetris against The Machine? Yes. For the purpose of improving The Machine's ability to play? No. The Machine learns via some sort of machine learning? No. (It's a technical term...really.) Neural network? No. Some other programming concept in which a machine learns to play a game better by playing games? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did granpa anger/upset the machine? Did the machine want revenge? Did it want to beat granpa? Did it want to "show him"? Is this a relevant line of questioning?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Did granpa anger/upset the machine? No. Did the machine want revenge? No. Did it want to beat granpa? No. Did it want to "show him"? No. Is this a relevant line of questioning? Yope.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the machine mutate as a way to cheat? Did it learn something from playing grandpa?

Was grandpa playing the machine as some sort of psychological test? As an experiment in evaluating the abilities of artificial intelligence?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Did the machine mutate as a way to cheat? No. Did it learn something from playing grandpa? Yope.

Was grandpa playing the machine as some sort of psychological test? No. As an experiment in evaluating the abilities of artificial intelligence? Yope.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the mutation developed as a direct result of Grandpa playing the Machine? How soon after did the mutation come about: Immediately? Within a minute? Within an hour? A day? Week? Month? Year? Decade? Longer?
If it wasn't within a week or so, was that because it was taking a long time to process Grandpa's moves/playing/whatever? Because it was turned off? Because the Machine's controller didn't let it mutate (Intentionally? Accidentally?)? Because it "didn't want to"? Because it lacked some resource it needed?
Has it been disappearing people ever since it developed the mutation, or did it just start doing that now? If it just started, is that because: It was turned off? It was "warming up"? The mutation was still mutating? It lacked some needed resource? It was not yet allowed to affect the world (but is now)? It needed to reach a certain level/speed/area/point/whatever in Tetris?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the mutation developed as a direct result of Grandpa playing the Machine? Yes. How soon after did the mutation come about: Immediately? Within a minute? Within an hour? A day? Week? Month? Year? Decade? Longer? Soon after, how soon is IRR.
If it wasn't within a week or so, was that because it was taking a long time to process Grandpa's moves/playing/whatever? No. Because it was turned off? Yes. Because the Machine's controller didn't let it mutate (Intentionally? Accidentally?)? No. Because it "didn't want to"? No. Because it lacked some resource it needed? No.
Has it been disappearing people ever since it developed the mutation, or did it just start doing that now? Just now. If it just started, is that because: It was turned off? Yes. It was "warming up"? No. The mutation was still mutating? No. It lacked some needed resource? No. It was not yet allowed to affect the world (but is now)? No. It needed to reach a certain level/speed/area/point/whatever in Tetris? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did granpa always beat the machine before the mutation? After (If he did play against it afterwards)? Was it turned off because of the mutation? Did granpa cause some kind of emotional response in the machine? (Was it capable of such?)

Were the creators trying to make the world's best Tetris computer, in the same way researchers are making chess computers? Did it simply become too good? If yes, is figuring out why important? Or how?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did granpa always beat the machine before the mutation? FA. After (If he did play against it afterwards)? He didn't play it after. Was it turned off because of the mutation? No. but why it was turned off is IRR. Did granpa cause some kind of emotional response in the machine? No. (Was it capable of such?) No.

Were the creators trying to make the world's best Tetris computer, in the same way researchers are making chess computers? YES! Did it simply become too good? Yes. If yes, is figuring out why important? No. Or how? No.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Summary:

A long time ago, when Grandpa was young(er), he was was hired by a group of scientist-type persons (who were trying to construct the world's greatest Tetris machine) to test the Machine by playing against it with his madd skillz. During this testing, Grandpa knowingly but inadvertently altered the machine by introducing a mutation into the code, causing the weak force (which had been anticipated by the creators) the machine produced as a side-effect to be supplemented by a stronger version of the same force which can annihilate things in the "real world".

In the present, Grandpa is at the supermarket with his grandson and his grandson's parents. The kid leaves his parents to go say "hi" to grandpa, and as he does, his parents join the checkout line. Their joining of the line causes some conditions to be fulfilled (two of which are that it must be a line of at least 10 similar things), and the machine is triggered, instantly annihilating all the people in the line with the (strong) force, as if they were Tetris blocks.

Questions:

When Grandpa played the machine, were the Tetris blocks represented on a screen (as in computer screen or tv), or were they actual physical items (blocks or otherwise)?
If physical, is this the part of the machine that mutated and killed people (the part that recognizes and destroys things)?
Did Grandpa ever beat the Machine? Was it a direct competition, indirect competition (like a track or swimming race is not really a competition against the opponent, but against the clock), or just the Machine watching the Master at work?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 5:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Summary:

A long time ago, when Grandpa was young(er), he was was hired by a group of scientist-type persons (who were trying to construct the world's greatest Tetris machine) to test the Machine by playing against it with his madd skillz. Correct. During this testing, Grandpa knowingly FA. I have said this so many times before and you have even said it so yourself in past posts, grandpa didn't know he did anything at the time, it only became apparent to him when the events in the supermarket from the original puzzle came to pass. but inadvertently altered the machine aside from the aforementioned FA up to this is correct. by introducing a mutation into the code, This however is false. and has also already been covered before. causing the weak force (which had been anticipated by the creators) the machine produced as a side-effect to be supplemented by a stronger version of the same force which can annihilate things in the "real world". Correct, except as noted.

In the present, Grandpa is at the supermarket with his grandson and his grandson's parents. The kid leaves his parents to go say "hi" to grandpa, and as he does, his parents join the checkout line. Their joining of the line causes some conditions to be fulfilled (two of which are that it must be a line of at least 10 similar things), and the machine is triggered, instantly annihilating all the people in the line with the (strong) force, as if they were Tetris blocks. Correct.

Questions:

When Grandpa played the machine, were the Tetris blocks represented on a screen (as in computer screen or tv) Yes., or were they actual physical items (blocks or otherwise)? No.
If physical, is this the part of the machine that mutated and killed people (the part that recognizes and destroys things)? see above.
Did Grandpa ever beat the Machine? No. Was it a direct competition Yes., indirect competition (like a track or swimming race is not really a competition against the opponent, but against the clock) No., or just the Machine watching the Master at work? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the machine insane? Obsessed with deleting any rows it can find? And too good at finding rows?
Was granpa vs. the machine an event, like chess masters against chess computers?
Do we need to figure out how granpa can know that the machine is deleting people? From what we know I don't see how he could immediately come to that conclusion. Does it have to do with the nature of the puzzle universe? Is it a natural conclusion in that universe?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the machine insane? Obsessed with deleting any rows it can find? And too good at finding rows?
Was granpa vs. the machine an event, like chess masters against chess computers? Yes.
Do we need to figure out how granpa can know that the machine is deleting people? From what we know I don't see how he could immediately come to that conclusion. Does it have to do with the nature of the puzzle universe? Is it a natural conclusion in that universe? all questions are IRR except as noted. Grandpa can come to that conclusion because of his past experience with the machine, however it is entirely irrelevant.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alright, so grandpa never actually beat the machine. Did they just play once? or was it a match composed of several games? If the latter, did he win any of the games? Was he frustrated about this? Was his Tetris skill largely in the speed with which he manipulated the blocks? His ability to figure out the best place to put them? The speed with which he found places to put them? His ability to get blocks into spaces that an average tetris player would consider unreachable? Was the machine especially good in any of these areas? Did grandpa play differently than he would in any other tetris game? Did he make a mistake that resulted in him losing? Was the alteration in the machine caused by the machine mimicking something grandpa did? Responding to something grandpa did? If so, a move he made during the game? Something he did in real life while playing the game? Something he said? Something he typed? An action or statement immediately before the game? Immediately after?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alright, so grandpa never actually beat the machine. Correct. Did they just play once? Yes. or was it a match composed of several games? No. If the latter, did he win any of the games? No. Was he frustrated about this? Yes, though depressed would be a better word.

Was his Tetris skill largely in the speed with which he manipulated the blocks? His ability to figure out the best place to put them? The speed with which he found places to put them? His ability to get blocks into spaces that an average tetris player would consider unreachable? In this universe he was the best in the world. So yes he's good at all of these, in fact the best.

Was the machine especially good in any of these areas? All of them. Did grandpa play differently than he would in any other tetris game? No. Did he make a mistake that resulted in him losing? Yope. Was the alteration in the machine caused by the machine mimicking something grandpa did? No. Responding to something grandpa did? Yope. If so, a move he made during the game? No. Something he did in real life while playing the game? No. Something he said? NO. Something he typed? No. An action or statement immediately before the game? No. Immediately after? Yesish.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 8:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So granpa did something to the machine after losing the match? Did he try to sabotage it? Improve it? Or was he not trying to do anything specific, but (damaged? changed?) it out of frustration? He only played aginst it once, correct? Did the machine play any other matches after that? Against someone? Against itself?

Was the machine turned on again to play another match against someone? To test it? Is it relevant why it was turned on again?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So granpa did something to the machine after losing the match? No. Did he try to sabotage it? See above. Improve it? See above. Or was he not trying to do anything specific, but (damaged? changed?) it out of frustration? No. He only played aginst it once, correct? Correct. Did the machine play any other matches after that? No. Against someone? No. Against itself? No.

Was the machine turned on again to play another match against someone? See below. To test it? See below. Is it relevant why it was turned on again? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the machine changed on its own? As a result of something grandpa did after the match? Or during the match? Did he say something? not say something? do something? not do something?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 5:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the machine changed on its own? Yes. As a result of something grandpa did after the match? No. Or during the match? No. Did he say something? No. not say something? No. do something? No. not do something? No.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a better word than "responding" that would get rid of that yope? Or was it an indirect response, as in something about the game triggered a chain of events? Or was it responding to something that someone other than grandpa said/did?

And it very emphatically was NOT yopeishly responding something grandpa said. Was it yopeishly responding to something he DIDN'T say? Should have said? Typed? If the situation had gone as expected, would it have responded to something grandpa said?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
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Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a better word than "responding" that would get rid of that yope? "responding" is not the word that caused the "yope". Or was it an indirect response, as in something about the game triggered a chain of events? No. Or was it responding to something that someone other than grandpa said/did? No.

And it very emphatically was NOT yopeishly responding something grandpa said. Was it yopeishly responding to something he DIDN'T say? No. Should have said? No. Typed? No typing was ever involved. If the situation had gone as expected, would it have responded to something grandpa said? No.
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
New member
Username: Caesarachilles

Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay! Time for another summary! (Because it seems I do that a lot in this puzzle...)

A long time ago, Grandpa, the world's greatest Tetris player, played an exhibition match against The Machine, which was designed to be the world's greatest Tetris-playing computer. The Machine won the match, and, as a direct result of playing Grandpa, the machine developed a mutation that causes it to delete lines in the Real World, instead of just in a Tetris game.

The next time The Machine is turned on, Grandpa is an old man, and is at the supermarket with his child, their spouse, and his grandson. As the kid comes over to Grandpa to say hi, his (the kid's) parents join the checkout line. This causes the line's length to reach/exceed 10, and The Machine deletes it, annihilating everyone who was in it. Upon seeing this, Grandpa regretfully realizes that The Machine is responsible, and that he was the one who was responsible for The Machine getting mutated.

Questions:

Have we asked the question you were looking for? Did I include the answer in my summary? Am I missing anything else?

Is it relevant exactly what Grandpa did/didn't do in order to cause The Machine to mutate? Or just that it mutated because Grandpa played it?
Flemsneezy (Flemsneezy)
New member
Username: Flemsneezy

Post Number: 229
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay! Time for another summary! (Because it seems I do that a lot in this puzzle...)

A long time ago, Grandpa, the world's greatest Tetris player, played an exhibition match against The Machine, which was designed to be the world's greatest Tetris-playing computer. The Machine won the match, and, as a direct result of playing Grandpa, the machine developed a mutation that causes it to delete lines in the Real World, instead of just in a Tetris game.

The next time The Machine is turned on, Grandpa is an old man, and is at the supermarket with his child, their spouse, and his grandson. As the kid comes over to Grandpa to say hi, his (the kid's) parents join the checkout line. This causes the line's length to reach/exceed 10, and The Machine deletes it, annihilating everyone who was in it. Upon seeing this, Grandpa regretfully realizes that The Machine is responsible, and that he was the one who was responsible for The Machine getting mutated. This is all correct and basically what i was looking for. So in order to end the pain and suffering i will now...

----------SPOILERZ----------
So to answer a few burring questions you may have that didn't really need to know to finish the puzzle, as all i was waiting for at the end was the part of how grandpa had lost in his epic match against the machine.

Grandpa was the greatest Tetris player in the world, because of this, after the machine had defeated him, while the machine had no real cognitive functions its one function was to play Tetris and be the best at it, it did the only thing it could do and went to extreme lengths to find a new challenger. As the machine is stationary some form of unknown code change occurred allowing the machine to modify the very fabric of the universe itself thus giving it Tetris like properties. As the story goes beyond the puzzle, the grandson would be raised by grandpa, becoming the new Tetris master, and would venture to defeat the machine (by building a line around it thus making it disappear.)

I apologize for any inconstant or super ambiguous responses, you all did well and I would like to thank you for playing. Also "The answer is 40.", The question is "How many blocks are in a Tetris?". A Tetris is the largest possible simultaneous vanishing of blocks in the game, 4 rows of 10 blocks.

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