| Author | Message | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1113 Registered: 5-2003 |
He escaped by golfing. As usual for me, this is a military puzzle. | ||
| Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
New member Username: Yabblesmacker Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2009 |
Golfing: playing the game of golf, where you hit ball with club and try to get it into hole? He= HAM? Was he a soldier? In wartime? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1116 Registered: 5-2003 |
Golfing: playing the game of golf, where you hit ball with club and try to get it into hole? Yope. He= HAM? Yes. Was he a soldier? In wartime? Yes to both. | ||
| Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
New member Username: Jumpingjack Post Number: 1039 Registered: 3-2006 |
Golfing: did he use a longish object to club a smaller object into the distance? If so, did he have to get this object into a hole? or just away from him? Did he use a real golf club? Did he hit a real golf ball? What did he escape: being captured by enemies? being killed? would he have been--shot? stabbed? blown up? suffocated? Was the 'golf ball' a grenade? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1124 Registered: 5-2003 |
Golfing: did he use a longish object to club a smaller object into the distance? If so, did he have to get this object into a hole? or just away from him? Did he use a real golf club? Did he hit a real golf ball? No to all. What did he escape: being captured by enemies? This. being killed? would he have been--shot? stabbed? blown up? suffocated? Was the 'golf ball' a grenade? No. | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 787 Registered: 12-2008 |
Did he hit the ball way out of the course while playing with the enemy, pretend to retrieve it, but really used that to escape from them? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1133 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he hit the ball way out of the course while playing with the enemy, pretend to retrieve it, but really used that to escape from them? No. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1148 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hint: He didn't have golf clubs or golf balls while he was playing. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 120 Registered: 5-2009 |
But he in fact was playing? A game? Somehow related to the game of golf? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1151 Registered: 5-2003 |
But he in fact was playing? Yope. A game? Yope. Somehow related to the game of golf? Yes. Let's try putting it another way: His knowledge of golf helped him escape. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 324 Registered: 9-2008 |
Was he pretending to play golf? Did he use a golf cart? golf bag? wear golf shoes? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1155 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was he pretending to play golf? OTRT. Did he use a golf cart? golf bag? wear golf shoes? No to the rest. | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 719 Registered: 8-2005 |
I think I know this so I have sent you an e-mail. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1157 Registered: 5-2003 |
Martin's answer is correct. The rest of you, keep trying! | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1953 Registered: 1-2007 |
Was he actaully on a golf course? Did he use his weapon as a pretend golf club? Did he actually mime making a golf swing? Is his knowledge of golf that helped him to do with how to make a good swing ? putting? or simply about the rules of golf? Any relevant golfing terminology? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1158 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was he actaully on a golf course? Did he use his weapon as a pretend golf club? Did he actually mime making a golf swing? Is his knowledge of golf that helped him to do with how to make a good swing ? putting? or simply about the rules of golf? No to all. Any relevant golfing terminology? Yes. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1956 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is the word bogey relevant? Don't the military refer to enemy aircraft as bogies? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1161 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the word bogey relevant? No. Don't the military refer to enemy aircraft as bogies? Yes, but this is irrelevant. No enemy aircraft were involved in the incident. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1169 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hint/rewrite: In this true story, a golfer's knowledge of the sport helped him to escape capture when he was lost behind enemy lines. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 331 Registered: 9-2008 |
Did he say something to deceive someone else? If so, was there more than one other person? Would the person(s)be enemy soldiers? civilians? colleagues? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1172 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he say something to deceive someone else? No. If so, was there more than one other person? Would the person(s)be enemy soldiers? civilians? colleagues? | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 334 Registered: 9-2008 |
Were there other person(s) present? If so, would the person(s) be enemy soldiers? civilians? colleagues? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1173 Registered: 5-2003 |
Were there other person(s) present? The escapee was alone, but encountered, communicated with, and\or hid from a number of people during the course of his escape. If so, would the person(s) be enemy soldiers? civilians? colleagues? All three. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2009 |
Seems like there had to be deception involved for him to escape, yet when asked if he said something to deceive someone else you answered no. Is this because his deception did not involve words spoken to the deceivee? Did he DO something to deceive someone else? Is this action golf related? Is this the sequence of events: 1. He finds himself behind enemy lines 2. He engages in golf-related escape activities 3. He safely escapes Do we need only to concern ourself with #2? How long did #2 occur? 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours, 12 hours, 1 day, 1 week? During #2, did he engage in activities that were intended to communicate that he was involved in playing a round of golf? What were his golf-related activities: - Swinging a club? - Failing to replace a divot? - Cursing? - Searching out of bounds for a ball? - Being stuck in a sand trap for 5 strokes? - Driving a golf cart while intoxicated? - Sexually harassing the beer cart girl? - Wearing ridiculous golf clothing? - Taking excessive mulligans? - Playing winter rules in July? - Failing to drive past the women's tees, incurring an Earnie? - Throwing his golf bag into a pond? - Throwing his caddy into a pond? - Scoring a 6 for whiffing twice, into the water, OB, shank into the ruff, foot nudge, over the green into a trap, whiff, skull back over the green, chip, and 3 putt? Did he assume a role of a person who is related to golf? If so, was it a golfer? A course marshall? Starter? Caddy? Groundsman? Golf Pro? Salesman? Announcer? Student? Did his activities occur on a gold course? Near a golf course? Away from a golf course? Was he in some other location related to golf? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1182 Registered: 5-2003 |
Seems like there had to be deception involved for him to escape, yet when asked if he said something to deceive someone else you answered no. Is this because his deception did not involve words spoken to the deceivee? I wouldn't say deception is involved at all. Did he DO something to deceive someone else? No. Is this action golf related? Is this the sequence of events: 1. He finds himself behind enemy lines 2. He engages in golf-related escape activities 3. He safely escapes Do we need only to concern ourself with #2? Yes. How long did #2 occur? 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours, 12 hours, 1 day, 1 week? About a week. During #2, did he engage in activities that were intended to communicate that he was involved in playing a round of golf? Yope. What were his golf-related activities: - Swinging a club? - Failing to replace a divot? - Cursing? - Searching out of bounds for a ball? - Being stuck in a sand trap for 5 strokes? - Driving a golf cart while intoxicated? - Sexually harassing the beer cart girl? - Wearing ridiculous golf clothing? - Taking excessive mulligans? - Playing winter rules in July? - Failing to drive past the women's tees, incurring an Earnie? - Throwing his golf bag into a pond? - Throwing his caddy into a pond? - Scoring a 6 for whiffing twice, into the water, OB, shank into the ruff, foot nudge, over the green into a trap, whiff, skull back over the green, chip, and 3 putt? No to all. Did he assume a role of a person who is related to golf? Yes. If so, was it a golfer? This. A course marshall? Starter? Caddy? Groundsman? Golf Pro? Salesman? Announcer? Student? Did his activities occur on a gold course? Near a golf course? Away from a golf course? This. Was he in some other location related to golf? No to the rest. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 299 Registered: 3-2009 |
Seems like he conducted himself as a golfer away from the course and blended into the civilian population. Is this correct? Do we need to understand what he did to blend in? What war -- was it WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, other? Was he in Europe? The US? Was the US involved in the war? Following up on the deception aspect -- seems like if he is escaping through some golf-related ruse, then he is deceiving the people from whom he is escaping, but you say there is no deception. Is sorting this out important? Do we need to explore the precise meaning of the word "escape"? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1184 Registered: 5-2003 |
Seems like he conducted himself as a golfer away from the course and blended into the civilian population. Is this correct? No. Do we need to understand what he did to blend in? No. What war -- was it WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam This., other? Was he in Europe? No. The US? No. Was the US involved in the war? Yes. Following up on the deception aspect -- seems like if he is escaping through some golf-related ruse, then he is deceiving the people from whom he is escaping, but you say there is no deception. Is sorting this out important? Yes. Once you figure out what's going on, you'll see how deception (if it can be called that) is involved. A hint: He is trying to hide his intentions. Do we need to explore the precise meaning of the word "escape"? It might help, yes. Specifically, he is down behind enemy lines. They have not caught him, and he is trying to stay out of their clutches and return to friendly territory. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 310 Registered: 3-2009 |
Was he down in North Vietnam? South Vietnam? Did he handle any golf equipment? Was the knowledge of the sport that he used to escape related to: rules of the game? Famous golf events? Golf history? The mechanics of swinging a golf club and hitting a golf ball? Golf equipment? Golf courses? Golf etiquette? Golf clothing? Golf scoring? Did he interact with other people who were golfers? Did he engage in activities that were visually apparent to other people? Did he use his knowledge of golf to evade detection? Was he a Vietnamese national? Was he caucasian? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1958 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are bunkers relevant at all? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1185 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was he down in North Vietnam? South Vietnam? This. Did he handle any golf equipment? No. Was the knowledge of the sport that he used to escape related to: rules of the game? Famous golf events? Golf history? The mechanics of swinging a golf club and hitting a golf ball? Golf equipment? Golf courses? This, no others. Golf etiquette? Golf clothing? Golf scoring? Did he interact with other people who were golfers? Yes. Did he engage in activities that were visually apparent to other people? Yes. While the activities were visible, however, he himself was not. Did he use his knowledge of golf to evade detection? No. Was he a Vietnamese national? No. Was he caucasian? Yes. Are bunkers relevant at all? Yes, but not in the military sense. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 312 Registered: 3-2009 |
Please confirm -- during the time he was behind enemy lines and trying to escape, he never set foot on a golf course, correct? Did he modify landscape? In such a way to be detected from the air? Is any particular part of a golf course more relevant? Bunkers? Fairways? Greens? Holes? Other hazards? Were the measured distances relevant? Were particular golf courses relevant? Or golf courses in general? Did his relevant knowledge pertain to the physical layout of golf courses? Their maintenance and upkeep? How they are used during a round of golf? Golf course etiquette? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1960 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is raking a bunker relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1186 Registered: 5-2003 |
Please confirm -- during the time he was behind enemy lines and trying to escape, he never set foot on a golf course, correct? Correct. Did he modify landscape? No. In such a way to be detected from the air? Is any particular part of a golf course more relevant? Hazards in general. Bunkers? Fairways? Greens? Holes? Other hazards? Were the measured distances relevant? Yes. Were particular golf courses relevant? Yes. Or golf courses in general? No. Did his relevant knowledge pertain to the physical layout of golf courses? No. Their maintenance and upkeep? No. How they are used during a round of golf? No. Golf course etiquette? No. Is raking a bunker relevant? No. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1187 Registered: 5-2003 |
BLOOOPERALERRRT!!! Did his relevant knowledge pertain to the physical layout of golf courses? Yes. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1967 Registered: 1-2007 |
Anthing to do with how hazards are marked on a golf course? e.g with stakes or white lines? Any differences between links and parkland courses relevant? When you say particular courses are relevant do you mean actual specific courses like Augusta or St Andrews or do you mean just certain types of courses? I assume we're talking real golf courses and not crazy golf or pitch and putt? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1192 Registered: 5-2003 |
Anthing to do with how hazards are marked on a golf course? e.g with stakes or white lines? Any differences between links and parkland courses relevant? No to all. When you say particular courses are relevant do you mean actual specific courses like Augusta or St Andrews or do you mean just certain types of courses? Specific, individual courses. You don't need to know which ones, but our hero does. I assume we're talking real golf courses and not crazy golf or pitch and putt? Yes, real golf courses. And regular ones, not miniature golf or anything. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 321 Registered: 3-2009 |
From what side was he trying to escape? From the Americans and their allies? Were the particular golf courses located in Vietnam? In America? Did he discuss specific courses with people? By discussing these courses, did he appear to be on the other side? Did he build rapport and trust by discussing these courses as though he had played them? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1193 Registered: 5-2003 |
From what side was he trying to escape? From the Americans and their allies? He was an American, trying to escape the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong. Were the particular golf courses located in Vietnam? In America? America. The exact locations are irrelevant. Did he discuss specific courses with people? Yope. By discussing these courses, did he appear to be on the other side? No. Did he build rapport and trust by discussing these courses as though he had played them? No. | ||
| Alex319 (Alex319)
New member Username: Alex319 Post Number: 829 Registered: 5-2007 |
So the particular golf courses are located in America. And the relevant information was pertaining to the hazards on those golf courses. By "hazards" do you mean "golf course design features that make it harder to get the ball toward the hole", like sand traps, water hazards, trees, and rough areas? Or by "hazards" do you mean "something that presents a danger to humans," like poisonous snakes, cliffs, etc? If there were no enemies looking for him, and he was just trying to navigate the wilderness and get back to civilization before he ran out of food/got bitten by a poisonous snake/fell off a cliff/whatever, would the golf related information still have been useful? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1194 Registered: 5-2003 |
So the particular golf courses are located in America. And the relevant information was pertaining to the hazards on those golf courses. Correct. By "hazards" do you mean "golf course design features that make it harder to get the ball toward the hole", like sand traps, water hazards, trees, and rough areas? This. Or by "hazards" do you mean "something that presents a danger to humans," like poisonous snakes, cliffs, etc? This, too (as something does present danger) although the specific dangers you list are irrelevant. If there were no enemies looking for him, and he was just trying to navigate the wilderness and get back to civilization before he ran out of food/got bitten by a poisonous snake/fell off a cliff/whatever, would the golf related information still have been useful? Yes, but it would have been unnecessary. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1195 Registered: 5-2003 |
Blooper! So the particular golf courses are located in America. And the relevant information was pertaining to the hazards on those golf courses. Partly. | ||
| Alex319 (Alex319)
New member Username: Alex319 Post Number: 838 Registered: 5-2007 |
Did he actually play the particular golf courses that were relevant? Did he use experience gained from navigating golf course hazards in order to navigate the wilderness? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1197 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he actually play the particular golf courses that were relevant? Yes. Did he use experience gained from navigating golf course hazards in order to navigate the wilderness? Yes. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 332 Registered: 3-2009 |
Is there a one specific golf course hazard that is relevant? Or multiple hazards? Are the hazards the normal kinds of hazards found on most golf courses? And that do not pose an actual physical hazard to a person? Or do they represent actual danger? Are the relevant golf course hazards: - Sand traps - Pot bunkers - Water - Water-related - Rough - Deep rough ala Vietnam Jungle - Out of bounds - Poisonous snakes - Alligators - Lightning - Ferocious bugs - Overpriced beer - Other animals - Cliffs & ravines Are the golf courses in question located in the southeast United States? Did he communiate with someone else who had knowledge of the same golf courses? Did he use his knowledge of a golf course layout as a reference? Did he superimpose golf courses on his present location? Was his knowledge of golf courses used primarily for navigational purposes? Are the hazards only relevant in that they were features of known location of the golf courses? Were other golf course features, such as tee boxes, fairways, and greens also relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1198 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is there a one specific golf course hazard that is relevant? Or multiple hazards? Multiple. Are the hazards the normal kinds of hazards found on most golf courses? Yes. And that do not pose an actual physical hazard to a person? Yes. Or do they represent actual danger? Not on the golf course, no. Are the relevant golf course hazards: Anything deliberately built into a golf course and designed to impede play will do. Animals, weather, and incidentals will not. - Sand traps - Pot bunkers - Water - Water-related - Rough - Deep rough ala Vietnam Jungle - Out of bounds - Poisonous snakes - Alligators - Lightning - Ferocious bugs - Overpriced beer - Other animals - Cliffs & ravines Are the golf courses in question located in the southeast United States? Irrelevant. Did he communiate with someone else who had knowledge of the same golf courses? Yes. Did he use his knowledge of a golf course layout as a reference? Yes. Did he superimpose golf courses on his present location? Yes. Was his knowledge of golf courses used primarily for navigational purposes? Yes. Are the hazards only relevant in that they were features of known location of the golf courses? No. Were other golf course features, such as tee boxes, fairways, and greens also relevant? Yes. You're almost there. Now put it all together. | ||
| Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member Username: Davesnothere Post Number: 335 Registered: 3-2009 |
Seems like Our Hero used his memory of golf courses to communicate his position in relative terms to someone else who knew the courses. Or did the other person give him direction in those terms? Anyway, I envision a conversation like, "imagine you are on the 14th hole -- walk to where the first sand trap is and wait there" -- that kind of thing. Maybe they used a series of directions to walk him in? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1199 Registered: 5-2003 |
You got it. *************** SPOILER *************** This occurred to LtCol Iceal Hambleton, who was shot down over Vietnam in 1972. He landed in North Vietnamese-controlled territory, helicopters couldn't get in to rescue him, and the NVA and VC were listening in to his radio communications with the US Air Force. So while he had to walk out, his handlers couldn't just say, "Go 200 yards south and avoid the village of Nan Bong" or whatever, because the NVA would use this information to capture him. Luckily, it turned out Hambleton was a fanatic golfer with a photographic memory of every course he had ever played. So they used golf holes to guide him and confuse the enemy. If he was told, "You're on the first hole at Tucson National," and the first hole at Tucson National goes 400 yards southeast with a sand trap to the left, Hambleton would walk 400 yards southeast, avoiding the hazard (a village or minefield) to the left of his path. A couple dozen "holes" of this virtual golf got him into a less enemy-infested area where commandos were able to rescue him. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1997 Registered: 1-2007 |
Now that's clever | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1202 Registered: 5-2003 |
It was turned into a book and a Jack Nicholson film, BAT*21. |
