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Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were supposed to be panic free.

Hi, all. Been lurking for a while, but finally decided to post. I considered posting this puzzle quite a while ago, but then forgot about it until something happened recently to remind me of it.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 276
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, welcome to the forum!

They= human? adult? male? female? mixed?

"supposed to be"= they expected to be? Someone else expected them to be? They wished they were? They were required to be? Under normal circumstances they would have been? Are there any relevant characters outside the "they" group?

"panic free"= not panicking? not having to pay for their panic? cured of panic attacks? Can I take it that they were not, in fact, panic free? And there was some kind of unforeseen circumstance that caused this? And we're trying to figure out what that circumstance might be?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They= human? adult? male? female? no to allmixed?

"supposed to be"= they expected to be? no Someone else expected them to be? This one is closest, but noThey wished they were? no They were required to be? no

Under normal circumstances they would have been? yesish Are there any relevant characters outside the "they" group? yes

"panic free"= not panicking? no not having to pay for their panic? no cured of panic attacks? no Can I take it that they were not, in fact, panic free? yes And there was some kind of unforeseen circumstance that caused this? yes And we're trying to figure out what that circumstance might be? that's part of it
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 283
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Animals? Aliens? Inanimate objects? Zombies? Mythical creatures? Fictional characters? Could this happen in real life?

Does "panic" in this context have the standard meaning, i.e. "a sudden overpowering fright or acute, extreme anxiety"? Or are you referring to a panic room? a different meaning of panic entirely? the actual word "panic"?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Animals? Aliens? Inanimate objects? this one Zombies? Mythical creatures? Fictional characters?

Could this happen in real life?this is based on real life

Does "panic" in this context have the standard meaning, i.e. "a sudden overpowering fright or acute, extreme anxiety"? yes Or are you referring to a panic room no? a different meaning of panic entirelyno? the actual word "panic"?no
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOPER!
panic free"= not panicking? should have been yes
John_w (John_w)
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Username: John_w

Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was someone using these objects? They were advertised to be "panic free"? Which turned out to be false?
Is this a common household object?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was someone using these objects? yes They were advertised to be "panic free"? yes Which turned out to be false? yes, but also no
Is this a common household object? yes
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

also, it appears that last time I was on here, it was far too late or something, because my blooper correction was wrong. Rather than confuse the issue further by posting another BLOOPER message about it, I'll post a clarification. I begin to see why these can be challenging to host! Thanks for your patience with me!

From the point of view of the people using the objects, "Panic free" = "not panicking". However, with reference to the "they" in the puzzle (the objects), it means something else.
John_w (John_w)
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Username: John_w

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the people using the objects misinterpreted the objects being "panic free"
Would the object be used in: the kitchen? entertainment room? bathroom? Laundry? Bedroom? Study?
Would it be used by Male adults?
Female adults
M/Children?
F/Children?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the people using the objects misinterpreted the objects being "panic free" no

Would the object be used in: the kitchen? entertainment room? Laundry? Bedroom? Study?possibly any of these; which ones depend on what house you are in bathroom?not likely

Would it be used by Male adults?
Female adults
M/Children?
F/Children?yes to all ages except very young children. Gender irrelevant
John_w (John_w)
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Username: John_w

Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

O.K so would you acquire these objects at a grocery store? Hardware? Book? C.D? Electronics? Furniture? Cosmetics? Toy? Hobby? Sports? Clothing?
Is there something specific about the people using the objects that is relevant to this puzzle?
Did they use the objects in the manner they were meant to be used?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

O.K so would you acquire these objects at a grocery store? no Hardware? yes Book? no C.D? no Electronics? no Furniture? possibly Cosmetics? no Toy? no Hobby? no Sports? no Clothing? no
Is there something specific about the people using the objects that is relevant to this puzzle? no
Did they use the objects in the manner they were meant to be used? yes with a very slight -ish
John_w (John_w)
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Username: John_w

Post Number: 48
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a type of glue? Something used to hang objects on walls? Is it a type of tool?
Where the people trying to improve their home? With a DIY product?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a type of glue? no Something used to hang objects on walls? no Is it a type of tool? only if using a broad definition of tool
Where the people trying to improve their home? At the time of the puzzle statement? no. Previously? yes With a DIY product? possibly, but irrelevant
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP to get this thing moving again:

Objects were added to a house for home improvement prior to the time of the puzzle statement. It is irrelevant whether the improvement was DIY or by professionals.

The location of the objects is not determined by the primary function of a room (therefore they could be found in a living room in one house but in a kitchen in another). However, a bathroom is not a likely location for these objects.

The gender, age, and other identifying factors of the users are irrelevant except that very young children would not use them.

You would most likely purchase these objects at a hardware store (possibly also at a furniture store?). They could be very broadly defined as tools, but don't let this mislead you.

The objects were advertised as "panic free," which can be interpreted as "not causing the users to panic." The objects' users were using the objects in the manner they were supposed to be used (with a very slight -ish). The objects did not turn out to be panic free. Therefore, the statement that the objects were "panic free" was false, but the advertisement was also true in a sense. This contradiction is the crux of the puzzle.
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 774
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a hunch. A bathroom would not be a suitable location for these objects because it rarely has a door on the outside?

Is the object supposed to be used in case of an emergency? A specific type of emergency? A fire? A burglary? An earthquake? A black-out? Other? Does anyone need to operate the object? Does it run on battery power? Electricity?

Can the object be installed anywhere in the house? Can you freely choose the room where you install it? Can you choose the location in the room? Do you have to install more than one object?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a hunch. A bathroom would not be a suitable location for these objects because it rarely has a door on the outside? yes, exactly

Is the object supposed to be used in case of an emergency? yes and no; can be used any time A specific type of emergency? no A fire? no, but... A burglary? no, but... An earthquake? no A black-out? no Other? no
Clarification, because I wasn't entirely sure how to answer these yes/no. These objects are intended to be used at any time, regardless of whether an emergency is occurring. However, both fires and burglaries are very relevant to the puzzle.

Does anyone need to operate the object? yes Does it run on battery power? no Electricity? no

Can the object be installed anywhere in the house? no, only in rooms with an outside door (as you figured out) Can you freely choose the room where you install it? no Can you choose the location in the room? no Do you have to install more than one object? depends on your house
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 775
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that pushbar you use to open doors in public places (no idea what they're actually called in English, sorry...)? It is supposed to let you out easily, you just have to push. But maybe some people pull on them? And that's why they are actually not panic-free?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that pushbar you use to open doors in public places (no idea what they're actually called in English, sorry...)? no, but ORT - think about houses It is supposed to let you out easily, you just have to push. no, but ORT But maybe some people pull on them? no And that's why they are actually not panic-free? no
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 136
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Arek fu was very much on the right track when he asked about the pushbar for opening doors in public places. Close enough that I will say "they" were exterior door knobs on a house. Now what would make a door knob "panic free"?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 165
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me rephrase the puzzle statement with the information you now know. This one is pretty close to being finished now!

People installed new exterior door knobs on their home with a feature that was advertised as "panic free." The doorknobs worked exactly as advertised, and the people used them in the normal way one would use a doorknob. However, instead of preventing panic, the "panic free" feature caused the people to panic. What was the feature, and what happened?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Username: Dropofahat

Post Number: 74
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "panic free" aspect that you could open the door from the inside, even if the outside was locked? Did people end up panicking anyway because they did (or thought they would) end up locked out of their houses without their keys?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 177
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "panic free" aspect that you could open the door from the inside, even if the outside was locked? Did people end up panicking anyway because they did (or thought they would) end up locked out of their houses without their keys?

******SPOILER*******
That's pretty much it. My husband and I inadvertently bought the "panic free" variety of door locks when we moved into a new house, not knowing that there was such a thing before we bought them. The benefit of such a lock is that it's always unlocked from the inside. It's supposedly a safety feature to keep you from panicking if you're trying to escape the house in a fire. However, at our house (and presumably at many others) it has been a source of panic many times as we have locked ourselves out of the house repeatedly. The worst is when you realize your mistake while the door is still closing, but can't react fast enough to do anything about it -- it's that slow-motion "ohhhh nooooo" situation that happens in movies. Really! This happened many times when we first got them, but happens rarely now that we've gotten used to them. However, my sister came to visit last month, and the very first full day she was here (while my husband and I were at work), she locked herself out and spent six hours sitting on our front porch in her pajamas.

While I can't argue against the logic of the system as a safety feature, it does seem to me that the locks must cause more panic than they prevent.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Username: Dropofahat

Post Number: 76
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haha, interesting puzzle, thanks!
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 490
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We have the same locks and the same problem.

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