| Author | Message | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 568 Registered: 11-2008 |
Finally, the trial was over. Martin came out of the court room and the Chief Inspector Peter walked towards him. "Not guilty, I suppose", he said, matter-of-factly. "That’s correct", said Martin with a bitter edge in his voice. "They agreed that it was not my fault. Slight negligence, and they found even this arguable. I took all the necessary precautions. I can’t count how many times I’ve done this before, and nothing ever happened." "I know, Mr. Martin", said the Chief Inspector. "We have been working on your case for more than a year, and all of us are convinced that it wasn’t your fault. If I was a believer, I’d say it was an Act of God." "Yes, Inspector. Yet... it will haunt me until the end of my days. She was just twenty-two... so damn young." "I understand, Mr. Martin. And I am terribly sorry." After an awkward pause, Martin asked: "Do you think you will ever find.... the other one?" "I don‘t think so. Haven’t even tried. After all, what for?" "You’re right. And I am really glad to hear that. Must still be a kid, I reckon. I do not want another young life spoiled... Well... goodbye, Inspector. And... thank you." "Goodbye," said the Chief Inspector softly, as he watched Martin walk out of the building and disappear into gloomy November evening shadows. Then he thought for himself: This is indeed the strangest case I have ever seen. Note: I am not familiar with the court/investigation technicalities so please be tolerant if I’ve got something wrong. I used the court settings and the police inspector just to create the atmosphere, there is almost no need investigating them :-)). What I do want to know is – WHAT HAPPENED? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 434 Registered: 10-2008 |
So, did Martin cause the death of a young woman? A human? If so, did he know this woman? Did this occur in his house? In her house? Outdoors? The kid--is this another possible victim of what killed the woman? Or was the kid also involved in her death? If so, did it make the sam mistake Martin did? Is it unaware of her death? Is it her child? Is it H? M? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 581 Registered: 11-2008 |
So, did Martin cause the death of a young woman? Yes A human? Yes If so, did he know this woman? He might have known her, or not; anyway, it's irrelevant Did this occur in his house? No In her house? No Outdoors? Yope The kid--is this another possible victim of what killed the woman? NoOr was the kid also involved in her death? Yes If so, did it make the sam mistake Martin did? No Is it unaware of her death? I don't know, but irrelevant Is it her child? No Is it H? Yes M? I don't know, but irrelevant | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 994 Registered: 8-2006 |
The way the young woman died: Poison? Blood loss? Physical (not chemical, as with poison) organ damage? Suffocation? Infection? Heart attack/failure? Decapitation? Electrocution? Suicide? Murder? Starvation? Dehydration? Did her death happen in a vehicle? partly inside? partly outdoors? Did her death involve an accident? any objects to be found out? other people than Martin and the kid? Is Martins occupation relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 582 Registered: 11-2008 |
The way the young woman died: Poison? Blood loss? this was involved as well Physical (not chemical, as with poison) organ damage? Yes Suffocation? Infection? Heart attack/failure? Decapitation? Yesish Electrocution? Suicide? Murder? Starvation? Dehydration? No to the rest Did her death happen in a vehicle? No partly inside? No partly outdoors? No Did her death involve an accident? Yes any objects to be found out? Yes other people than Martin and the kid? No other people were directly involved in her death Is Martins occupation relevant? Yes | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 567 Registered: 6-2003 |
Time to whip out the occupation list :-) Is Martin's job: Artistic / musical / writer Banking / financial / real estate Clerical / Administrative Computer related / Hardware Construction / Craftsman Criminal / Questionable Repute Education / Academic Research Entertainment / Media Environmental / Outdoors / Nature Executive / Management Hospitality / Travel Legal Services Manufacturing / Distributions Medical / Health Services Politics / Government / Military Sales / Marketing Technical / Science / Engineering Teaching / Child care Transportation Food Service Other ? Let's separate them out: the dead woman, let's call Sally. The "kid", let's call Sam. Does Sally have the same job as Martin? A similar job? Did they meet by virtue of his occupation? Is Sam male? female? a child? teenager? adult? Did Sam go 'on the run' after Sally's death? Could this scenario conceivably happen in real life? Is something supernatural involved? (Or believed to be involved?) | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 586 Registered: 11-2008 |
Time to whip out the occupation list :-) I saw this coming :-)) Is Martin's job: Artistic / musical / writer Banking / financial / real estate Clerical / Administrative Computer related / Hardware Construction / Craftsman Criminal / Questionable Repute Education / Academic Research Entertainment / Media Environmental / Outdoors / Nature Executive / Management Hospitality / Travel Legal Services Manufacturing / Distributions Medical / Health Services Politics / Government / Military possibly but not necessarily this Sales / Marketing Technical Most probably this / Science / Engineering Teaching / Child care Transportation Food Service Other ? Let's separate them out: the dead woman, let's call Sally. The "kid", let's call Sam. Alright. Does Sally have the same job as Martin? No but worth exploring A similar job? No but worth exploring Did they meet by virtue of his occupation? Yesish Is Sam male? possibly female? possibly a child? very probably teenager? possibly adult? possibly but less likely Did Sam go 'on the run' after Sally's death? No Could this scenario conceivably happen in real life? It actually did happen - a true story Is something supernatural involved? (Or believed to be involved?) No -see above | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 590 Registered: 11-2008 |
Possible BLOOPER! So far, we were talking about Martin's job; however, it does not necessarily have to be a proper job, it is more about a skill such a job requires | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1252 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Martin actually guilty of what he was charged with? Is he hiding anything? Is he a civilian contractor with the military? Does he work on military equipment? Was Martin suspected of negligence? Murder? Was Sam suspected of negligence? Murder? Did Sam witness Sally's death? Did Martin? Are any of these people related to each other, and if so, which to which? The "accident" occurred indoors. Does the geographical location matter (if so, LTPF list of countries)? Does the era matter (if so, LTPF list of centuries)? Is an organization of some sort (like a corporation) involved? Was Sally killed directly or indirectly (say, by poisoning)? Did she die of blunt, piercing, slashing, or burning damage? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 591 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Martin actually guilty of what he was charged with? No -the trial verdict was just Is he hiding anything? No Is he a civilian contractor with the military? Irr Does he work on military equipment? Sort-ish of -explore Was Martin suspected of negligence? Yes Murder? Possibly Was Sam suspected of negligence? No Murder? No Did Sam witness Sally's death? probably not but irrelevant Did Martin? He was not an eye-witness, if you mean that Are any of these people related to each other, and if so, which to which? Martin and Sally are distantly related, they probably did not know each other The "accident" occurred indoors Yopishly, mind you :-)). Does the geographical location matter (if so, LTPF list of countries)? Yes, it does. It actually happened in the Czech Republic, but exactly the same scenario could in theory have happened almost anywhere in Europe (perhaps excluding the Scandinavian countries, but I am not sure about this one) and Northern America Does the era matter ? Yes; it actually happened some fifteen years ago Is an organization of some sort (like a corporation) involved? Sort-ish of. Was Sally killed directly or indirectly (say, by poisoning)? Directly Did she die of blunt, piercing, slashing, or burning damage? Can you please specify what exactly do you mean? So far, I can exclude burning. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1259 Registered: 5-2003 |
This is a Dungeons and Dragons convention for weapon types -- if you think about it, you'll realize that all hand-held weapons fall into these three categories, or a mixture of them. Blunt damage - done with a blunt object, usually by crushing. Works for falling a long way and hitting the ground, too. Piercing -- impaled or punctured, as by a sword or a bullet passing through the victim. Slashing -- cut or chopped by a weapon that can be swung, as with beheading or just being hit by axe or sword. Did she die instantly? Did she die by poison? The organization involved: Government-owned? Is Martin and Sally's relationship relevant at all? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 995 Registered: 8-2006 |
So an injury of Sallys head/neck caused her death? were other parts of her body injured? Were any arteries touched? veins? the trachea? Was her death caused by an object? a weapon? Did Martin cause the accident? did he fail to assist Sally? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 599 Registered: 11-2008 |
This is a Dungeons and Dragons convention for weapon types -- if you think about it, you'll realize that all hand-held weapons fall into these three categories, or a mixture of them. I suspected it was something along this line :-)) Blunt damage - done with a blunt object, usually by crushing. Works for falling a long way and hitting the ground, too. Piercing -- impaled or punctured, as by a sword or a bullet passing through the victim. This Slashing -- cut or chopped by a weapon that can be swung, as with beheading or just being hit by axe or sword. Did she die instantly? Yes Did she die by poison? No The organization involved: Government-owned? The main organization involved was not government-owned; Is Martin and Sally's relationship relevant at all? It might be helpful what they had in common, yes | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 998 Registered: 8-2006 |
The skill required by Martins job: intellectual? dexterousness? athletic skill? a skill related to emotions? There are more questions from August 17 which you seem to have forgotten... Thank you | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 615 Registered: 11-2008 |
There are more questions from August 17 which you seem to have forgotten. Yes, it seems so, I am sorry. Here we go: So an injury of Sallys head Yes/neck caused her death? were other parts of her body injured? No Were any arteries touched? Yes veins? Yes the trachea? No Was her death caused by an object? Yes a weapon? Yes Did Martin cause the accident? Very difficult to answer. He was declared not guilty by the jury, which had investigated the case very thoroughly. I hesitate between No, Noish and Yope. did he fail to assist Sally?No The skill required by Martins job: intellectual? dexterousness? This athletic skill? a skill related to emotions? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 999 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was the weapon causing her death a fire arm? an weapon with a blade? Did Martin hold the weapon? Was Martin deterous with weapons? was it his weapon? Did the weapon touch Sallys head? a bullet? is it relevant where exactly? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 618 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was the weapon causing her death a fire arm? This an weapon with a blade? No Did Martin hold the weapon? No Was Martin deterous with weapons? Yes was it his weapon? Probably Did the weapon touch Sallys head?No a bullet? No is it relevant where exactly? No | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 1001 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was Martins weapon a pistol? a rifle? Did he shoot? at a target? a person? an animal? an object? Was Sallys death caused by an object penetrating into her body? a sharp object? was this one set into motion by a bullet fired by Martin? Did Sally fall onto an object? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 620 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was Martins weapon a pistol? No a rifle? No Did he shoot? Yes at a target? No a person? an animal? an object? Neither- see above Was Sallys death caused by an object penetrating into her body? Yes a sharp object? No was this one set into motion by a bullet fired by Martin? No Did Sally fall onto an object? No | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 178 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did he shoot into the air? Shoot a weapon he thought was unloaded? Shoot a weapon he thought was loaded with blanks? Shotgun? Automatic weapon? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 621 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did he shoot into the air? Yes Shoot a weapon he thought was unloaded? Yes Shoot a weapon he thought was loaded with blanks? Shotgun? Automatic weapon? Neither | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2009 |
A canon? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 622 Registered: 11-2008 |
A canon? Yes! | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 182 Registered: 7-2009 |
So Martin shot a cannon that he thought was unloaded into the air, right? But it really was loaded? And the cannonball hit Sally? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 623 Registered: 11-2008 |
So Martin shot a cannon that he thought was unloaded into the air, right? Right But it really was loaded? Yope And the cannonball hit Sally? No | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 81 Registered: 8-2009 |
Was something lodged in the cannon? Did the cannon explode, and shrapnel hit Sally? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 183 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was something in the cannon that had no business being there? And that's what hit Sally? Did Sam put something into the cannon? A toy? If so, was it on purpose? On accident? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 624 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was something lodged in the cannon? Yes Did the cannon explode, and shrapnel hit Sally? No Was something in the cannon that had no business being there? Yes And that's what hit Sally? Yes Did Sam put something into the cannon? Yes A toy? No If so, was it on purpose? No On accident? No Now, you are almost there. Gee, that was quick! As a bonus for your well-targeted questions, I am going to give you a tiny hint about the object we are looking for. Not a big one, mind you - you definitely don't need that :-)) In fact, I've already given it away in the puzzle statement. Remember me saying that there was ALMOST no need investigating the Chief Inspector and the circumstances of the trial? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 1002 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was the object that killed Sally solid? Was it made of metal? wood? paper? cardboard? glass? stone? concrete? tissue? organic material? earth? clay? plastic? rubber? Is the expression "Act of God" particulary relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 629 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was the object that killed Sally solid? Yes Was it made of metal? wood? paper? cardboard? glass? stone? concrete? tissue? Neither organic material? Yes earth? No clay? No plastic? No rubber? No Is the expression "Act of God" particulary relevant? No | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 188 Registered: 7-2009 |
Googling "Inspector Peter" comes up with someone named "Peter Diamond." Is it a diamond? Or other gem? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 1003 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was the object a human? an animal? a plant? Or was the object a part of the above? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 630 Registered: 11-2008 |
Googling "Inspector Peter" comes up with someone named "Peter Diamond." Is it a diamond? Or other gem? Very interesting idea - I did not know this! I've chosen the name just at random, so the answer is No. Was the object a human? No an animal? No a plant? Yesish, see below Or was the object a part of the above? Yes | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 191 Registered: 7-2009 |
A branch from a tree? A twig? A leaf (though how a leaf could kill someone, I have no idea =) )? A root? A seed (like an acorn)? | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2009 |
A coconut? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 632 Registered: 11-2008 |
A branch from a tree? A twig? A leaf (though how a leaf could kill someone, I have no idea =) )? A root? A seed (like an acorn)? It was a seed - no to the rest A coconut? No | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 93 Registered: 8-2009 |
Is the cannon full sized? Or a smaller, working model? A pine cone? A peach pit? An avacado pit? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did you mean to say that Sam put the seed in the cannon neither on purpose nor on accident? I can't see how Sam can neither have meant to put it the nor not meant to put it there. Or did you say "no" to "on purpose" because Sam did intentionally put it in the cannon, but without any malicious intent? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 194 Registered: 7-2009 |
Oh, also...do Martin and the inspector know who Sam is? | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2009 |
Does it matter specifically what the seed is from? If so, is it from a fruit? Vegetable? Tree? Shrub? Grass? | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2009 |
Flower? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 633 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is the cannon full sized? Yes Or a smaller, working model? No A pine cone? A peach pit? An avacado pit? Neither; but any of these would probably have had the same effect Did you mean to say that Sam put the seed in the cannon neither on purpose nor on accident? Yes I can't see how Sam can neither have meant to put it the nor not meant to put it there. In fact, I was hesitating a bit about this one, but then decided exactly as you say below Or did you say "no" to "on purpose" because Sam did intentionally put it in the cannon, but without any malicious intent? Exactly Oh, also...do Martin and the inspector know who Sam is? No Does it matter specifically what the seed is from? Not really. It would have worked for lots of seeds/objects of the same size. However, it helps illustrate the situation. If the specific kind of seed is the last thing which would be missing to solve the puzzle, I will probably give it away. If so, is it from a fruit? Vegetable? Tree? This Shrub? Grass? Flower? Now, you are almost there; WHAT happened? | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 102 Registered: 8-2009 |
Here's my guess for the overall story: Martin is an "vintage firearm buff" and helps with battle recreations (or gives demonstrations). An unknown teenager (maybe they were known to hang around the area?) put an acorn (?) in one of the cannons. Then, as we know, Martin fires the cannon, thinking it's empty, accidentally killing Sally, who is a bystander? in the audience? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2009 |
1. An acorn/hickory nut/other tree seed (nut) ends up in a cannon, presumably placed there by someone named Sam. I envision a child playing and thinking that it looked like fun to stick the nut in the cannon's hole. However, if Martin and the inspector know who Sam is, do they in fact know that Sam was a person? Did someone actually see a person drop a nut into the cannon? Or could Sam have been a squirrel? 2. Martin shot a cannon up into the air, thinking it was empty. Was it part of a military reenactment? A salute? A musical piece like the 1812 overture? A play? Does it matter? 3. The tree nut is fired out of the tree, sails through the air, and kills Sally. Sally is not immediately present at the cannon firing (you said Martin didn't see her), but she had to have been close enough for the tree nut to reach her, right? Are those the three main events you're looking for? Or is there more? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 634 Registered: 11-2008 |
Here's my guess for the overall story: Martin is an "vintage firearm buff" and helps with battle recreations (or gives demonstrations). Exactly so An unknown teenager (maybe they were known to hang around the area?) put an acorn (?) in one of the cannons. Possibly; I personally think he/she must have been younger than that Then, as we know, Martin fires the cannon, thinking it's empty, accidentally killing Sally, Yes who is a bystander? in the audience? Neither but irrelevant; see the spoyler 1. An acorn/hickory nut/other tree seed (nut) ends up in a cannon, presumably placed there by someone named Sam. Yes I envision a child playing and thinking that it looked like fun to stick the nut in the cannon's hole. Yes, this is exactly how I think I happened. However, if Martin and the inspector know who Sam is, they don't do they in fact know that Sam was a person? No, they don't; they just assume it must have been a kid Did someone actually see a person drop a nut into the cannon? No Or could Sam have been a squirrel? That's correct; however this idea is so lateral that it occurred neither to Inspector Peter, nor to Martin or myself 2. Martin shot a cannon up into the air, thinking it was empty. Yes Was it part of a military reenactment? This one A salute? A musical piece like the 1812 overture? A play? Does it matter? Not really 3. The tree nut is fired out of the tree, sails through the air, and kills Sally.out of the cannon - the rest is correct Sally is not immediately present at the cannon firing (you said Martin didn't see her), but she had to have been close enough for the tree nut to reach her, right? Yes; in fact, she was in a tent Are those the three main events you're looking for? Or is there more? No, that's all - you got it and here goes the *****************SPOILER************************* Martin is an experienced vintage firearm buff, exactly as you said - btw. I love this expression - who fires cannons during military reenactments and similar occasions (as far as I know, you have to pass special tests and have certificates to be allowed to do this). This one was something like a Renaissance fair, with lots of audience around. Usually, real size functional cannon replicas are used for this kind of events which are fired with gunpowder but there is no load, just newspaper and carbon paper which act as a plug. Somebody, most probably a kid, dropped unseen a horse chestnut to the cannon (it happened in autumn - see my slight hint ;-)) so there were plenty of them around.) Martin, unaware of that, fired the cannon, the chestnut flew out of it and literally blew the head off Sally, a colleague performer who was changing in a tent (imagine one of several large tents simulating a military camp). In large events such as was this one, there are usually different groups of amateur and/or professional performers, which do not necessarily have to know each other. As you can see, this was a combination of incredible coincidence and extremely bad luck. The only thing Martin perhaps did wrong was the fact he must have had left the cannon unattended for a while. No wonder he thinks it is enough for him to live with such a weight on his conscience and there is no need for the kid - if any - to experience this as well. This is, sadly, a true story which happened in the nineties. Thank you very much for participating in this puzzle. Given the circumstances I would consider it of a bad taste saying that I thank Dropofahat and Noel for hitting the target - so I'll just say thanks for getting it right. | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 124 Registered: 8-2009 |
Nice one, Alhucema. One question though - when giving a hint about the object that was put in the cannon, you said you had "already given it away in the puzzle statement". Was there more of a hint for "horse chestnut" than "November"? If that's considered "giving it away", I'm afraid you may be giving us (or me, anyway) too much credit for extracting & interpreting clues... Not to mention the fact that the trial ending in the fall doesn't tell us much about the season the original incident happened, since it happened "more than a year" previously. I don't mean to nitpick, though, it's just that I read through the setup so many times looking for clues... {8-] Good puzzle, though, of course! | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 653 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thank you, Dropofahat. You are right - "November" and the statement that the trial lasted more than a year were meant as the only hints about the chestnut. I don't mind your nitpicking in the slightest - my problem is that, with so many clever and inquisitive minds around, I am often afraid that if I give away too much information, someone will find the answer right away. Obviously, the result is that I sometimes give too little information, or am too obscure (which I think happened in my puzzle "Not So Deep as a Well". Trying to balance it out, though.;-)) | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 163 Registered: 8-2009 |
Of course, that balance between obscure and obvious is ever-elusive. I'm just glad I didn't miss any clues that "gave it away"! Thanks again. |
