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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

People who have read some of my puzzles will may be aware the house in which i was brought up sits on the border of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland .

In very rare cases actual houses have been divided by the border meaning someones kitchen could be in the north while their sitting room is in the republic or south.

As it happens my sister's house is one of those that, according to some people, is divided by the border. However strangely enough the divide, according to them, is such that the downstairs of her house is in the south while the upstairs is in the north.

Please explain
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there two different entrances, one that leads upstairs, one that leads to the first floor? If so, is one of these entrances on one street, and the other on a different street? And are these streets zoned such that one is on one side of the border, and one is on the other? So that, legally, each entrance represents a dwelling on different sides of the border?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Border = Border between Republic of Ireland and Republic of Northern Ireland? Border between Earth and Outer Space? Some other national border? Some other local (ie city, county, town, etc) border?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there two different entrances, one that leads upstairs, one that leads to the first floor? NoIf so, is one of these entrances on one street, and the other on a different street? And are these streets zoned such that one is on one side of the border, and one is on the other? So that, legally, each entrance represents a dwelling on different sides of the border? no to this
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Border = Border between Republic of Ireland and Republic of Northern Ireland? this Border between Earth and Outer Space? Some other national border? Some other local (ie city, county, town, etc) border? no to rest
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the top floor built at a different time than the lower floor?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I posted too soon, I had more questions...

Did the lower floor exist first, on its own, while the land the house is on was "owned" by one country? Then later, the second floor was added on, and the land now is considered part of the other country? But the lower floor is "grandfathered in" and still considered part of its original country?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything special in the way the house is built? You said it has two floors, right? Are they exactly one above the other?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dropofahat

Was the top floor built at a different time than the lower floor? no

I posted too soon, I had more questions... I do that all the time...

Did the lower floor exist first, on its own, while the land the house is on was "owned" by one country? no Then later, the second floor was added on, and the land now is considered part of the other country? no But the lower floor is "grandfathered in" and still considered part of its original country? fraid not

Alhucema
Is there anything special in the way the house is built? no You said it has two floors, right? yes Are they exactly one above the other? yes

there's a pretty big FA here.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the house ACTUALLY divided, or is it something people just say?

Does someone who has more in common with the south live downstairs, and someone inclined more to the north upstairs?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the house ACTUALLY divided, or is it something people just say? no it's not divided and people don't say it is but something happens that implies that they might think it is. You're task is really to discover who they are and what happens

Does someone who has more in common with the south live downstairs, and someone inclined more to the north upstairs? no nothing like this
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the building on a slope, and according to the treaty everything above a certain height belongs to one state?

Does this suggestion that the house is divided hinge on any reading of the actual treaty/regulations? IE, is there a rule somewhere that appears as though it could apply? Or is it just a joke or thought that it might?

Has the border moved in any way since the building was built? Is part of the house built from materials from one side of the border, the other built from the other side's materials?

Are there any relevant geographical features? (rivers, etc.)?

Is your family both Orange and Green (mixed faith/nationality)? Relevant?

Is it in an urban area? Suburban? Rural? Relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the building on a slope, and according to the treaty everything above a certain height belongs to one state? no

Does this suggestion that the house is divided hinge on any reading of the actual treaty/regulations? no IE, is there a rule somewhere that appears as though it could apply? no Or is it just a joke or thought that it might? there's an element of humour in the solution i guess but quite a bit of frustration as you'll see , but this is not someones idea of a joke however

Has the border moved in any way since the building was built? no Is part of the house built from materials from one side of the border, the other built from the other side's materials? no

Are there any relevant geographical features? (rivers, etc.)? not geographical strictly speaking but explore this

Is your family both Orange and Green (mixed faith/nationality)? no we're pure green butt not relevant in the slightest Relevant?

Is it in an urban area? just outside our home town so somewhat rural Suburban? Rural? Relevant? i haven't heard of anyone in the town itself having this problem
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, just to clarify, is the house all on street level? Is there any part of the house that juts out, or is on some kind of slope?

You said "not geographical (relevant features) strictly speaking" - would geological be a better word? historical?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, just to clarify, is the house all on street level? Is there any part of the house that juts out, or is on some kind of slope? it's just your everyday two story house with no strange angles or bits jutting out of it

You said "not geographical (relevant features) strictly speaking" - would geological be a better word? historical? no to these . In hindsight i should have just said no to geographical.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two levels of the house each painted a different color?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two levels of the house each painted a different color? no but a nice thought

I should mention to save you further trouble that there is absolutely no phsyical detail about the house that makes this occur. In fact I can't even explain why it happens. It just does. Concentrate on what happens to suggest that her upstairs is across the border
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, if you "can't even explain why it happens (it just does)", I'm at a loss as to how WE'RE supposed to explain it, but I'm game to keep trying...

If you stand at a certain spot, does it appear that the upper level of her house is on the other side of the border?

Does it matter who lives there? (i.e., does she have "boarders" from the other side of the border who live upstairs?

Is the sun relevant? (I guess I'm thinking of the sun rising or setting on a certain portion of the house first...)
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the sentence

"However strangely enough the divide, according to them, is such that the downstairs of her house is in the south while the upstairs is in the north,"

is "according to them" key to solving the issue?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, if you "can't even explain why it happens (it just does)", I'm at a loss as to how WE'RE supposed to explain it, but I'm game to keep trying... all i ask is that you establish what happens not why it happens. All will be apparent when solved i hope. And thanks for sticking with it

If you stand at a certain spot, does it appear that the upper level of her house is on the other side of the border? hmm not physically but if you stand in a certain part of the house and look at something then the house would appear to be on the other side of the border. But please bear in mind that the border is an imaginery line so you couldn't see it even if it did bisect the house

Does it matter who lives there? (i.e., does she have "boarders" from the other side of the border who live upstairs? no and not relevant

Is the sun relevant? (I guess I'm thinking of the sun rising or setting on a certain portion of the house first...)no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the sentence

"However strangely enough the divide, according to them, is such that the downstairs of her house is in the south while the upstairs is in the north,"

is "according to them" key to solving the issue? very much so

I think I have you all totally confused now so I'll give you a little clue. I could have (and probably should have) phrased the puzzle statement as "Everytime my sister or her husband go upstairs something happens which could potentially have a financial impact on them"
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the sentence

"However strangely enough the divide, according to them, is such that the downstairs of her house is in the south while the upstairs is in the north,"

is "according to them" key to solving the issue? very much so

I think I have you all totally confused now so I'll give you a little clue. I could have (and probably should have) phrased the puzzle statement as "Everytime my sister or her husband go upstairs something happens which could potentially have a financial impact on them and others"
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it relate to something inside the house? Or something they can see through the window of the house?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it relate to something inside the house? Or something they can see through the window of the house? Inside. Good question
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a solid object? Is it part of the house? A piece of furniture? Is it natural? Man-made? Made of: metal? wood? plastic? plaster? concrete? Is it bigger than a breadbox? smaller than a person?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the stairway relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a solid object? yes Is it part of the house? no A piece of furniture? no Is it natural? no Man-made? yes Made of: metal? some wood? no plastic? some plaster? no concrete? no Is it bigger than a breadbox? no smaller than a person? yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the stairway relevant? only in so far as you have to go up the stairs for this occurance to take place
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it's a small object, made at least in part of metal and plastic. And this object could have a financial impact AND makes some think the upper floor is on the other side of the border?

Is it a weapon?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it cell phones? If so, does a cell phone used upstairs communicate with a different cell phone tower than downstairs? And the towers are on opposite sides of the border?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a compass?

Btw, Noel, I like your idea very much :-))
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an alarm or detector of some kind?

Yes, good idea, Noel, and to use it as a launching point - is it a land line phone? And the area code is from the "other country"?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is something visible upstairs that isn't visible from downstairs? Is something physically attached to the house?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it cell phones? it is indeed If so, does a cell phone used upstairs communicate with a different cell phone tower than downstairs? YES And the towers are on opposite sides of the border? and yes again

**************Spoiler**************

Superb job Noel

Yes for some strange reason when my sister goes upstairs in her house with her mobile phone the phone switches to Vodafone UK from Vodafone Ire. She even gets an automated text message welcoming her to the UK and advising her about roaming charges. She's always careful not to answer her mobile while upstairs as this costs her and the caller more money. Numerous queries to Vodafone have been futile as they are at a loss to explain why this happens. So according to them my sister's upstairs is in a different country than her downstairs.

Thanks to all who played
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That was great... and really lateral!

Thank you for the puzzle - and my sincere admiration to Noel :-))
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks

And I agree what a great lateral leap by Noel.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That sounds like a total pain. Your poor sister!!

Thanks everyone, but especially thanks to Peter365 for asking all those questions about what it was made out of and its size, plus Dropofahat for the reminder that there was something financial involved. Without those two sets of questions, I wouldn't have had a clue. For a while I was stuck on the idea that it must be that they could see "welcome to the UK" and "welcome to Ireland" signs out their windows, lol. Oh well.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not that it really matters, but for the record I asked what it was made of and its size (it was Peter365's puzzle!). Excellent job putting it together, Noel. And great puzzle, Peter!
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoops! Sorry, drop, you're right (of course).
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent puzzle, sorry I missed it!

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