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Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 789
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Remember this advice - it may save your life one day.

Don't do what is obvious, as it would kill you in the long run.
Don't be afraid to do something which might seem disgusting.

And, don't forget - never lose hope.

Early spoylers please e-mail :-))
Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 585
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...in case we ever find ourselves in one of the Saw films?

On a more serious level, I'll try and formalise the statement. Are the following statements/clauses accurate:

If we come across a certain situation, there are two (only two?) options available to us: an obvious one and a disgusting one. Doing the obvious one would end up in our death. Doing the disgusting one would not end up in our death. Or, at least, it would make it more likely that we would survive / less likely that we would die.

From doing the "obvious" thing to death, how long would it be: a minute? hour? day? week? month? year? longer?

Does the "never lose hope" part imply that, during the process, we would have to wait a long time? A long time before knowing whether or not we would die from our decision?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 792
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...in case we ever find ourselves in one of the Saw films? I am afraid not :-))

On a more serious level, I'll try and formalise the statement. Are the following statements/clauses accurate:

If we come across a certain situation, there are two (only two?) good question! see below options available to us: an obvious one and a disgusting one. In fact, I can think of three more options. If you use two of them, you would die. The third one could save you but it is very unlikely. So we'd better stick to our two initial options. Doing the obvious one would end up in our death. Yes Doing the disgusting one would not end up in our death. It does not guarantee that you will not die at all but it does guarantee that you will not die for a certain reason Or, at least, it would make it more likely that we would survive I think this is closest / less likely that we would die.

From doing the "obvious" thing to death, how long would it be: a minute? hour? day? I'd say several days week? month? year? longer?

Does the "never lose hope" part imply that, during the process, we would have to wait a long time? Partly A long time before knowing whether or not we would die from our decision? No
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 320
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cause of death in the first option:
A virus?
Bacteria?
Murder?
Gunshot?
Stabbing?
Hanging?
Freezing?
Suffocating?
Drowning?
A parasite?
Having your body taken over by aliens =)?
Blunt trauma to the head?
Boredom?
Suicide?
A broken heart?

Does the disgusting thing:
Look gross?
Taste gross?
Feel gross?
Sound gross?
Smell gross?
Is it disgusting for moral reasons rather than physical ones?

Does it matter who is giving the advice here? If so, is it you? A fictional character? A historical figure? A current famous person?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 793
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cause of death in the first option:
A virus?
Bacteria?
Murder?
Gunshot?
Stabbing?
Hanging?
Freezing?
Suffocating?
Drowning?
A parasite?
Having your body taken over by aliens =)?
Blunt trauma to the head?
Boredom?
Suicide?
A broken heart?
Neither


Does the disgusting thing:
Look gross?
Taste gross? This
Feel gross?
Sound gross?
Smell gross? and perhaps this


Is it disgusting for moral reasons rather than physical ones? I'd say both

Does it matter who is giving the advice here? Yes If so, is it you? A fictional character? A historical figure? A current famous person? This, although this person died quite recently
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2068
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this advice written? spoken? sung?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 794
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this advice written? Yesspoken? Yes sung? Not that I know of
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Died quite recently...Ted Kennedy?

Cause of death...is it something natural? Cancer? Stroke? Heart attack?
Choking on food?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 795
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Died quite recently...Ted Kennedy? No

Cause of death...is it something natural? Yesish Cancer? Stroke? Heart attack?
Choking on food? but neither of these

I've been doing some research and it seems that if you combine the obvious and the disgusting, it might keep you safely alive for some time. But if you do JUST the obvious, it would kill you, as I said above
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with swine flu?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with swine flu? No
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

starvation?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

starvation? No
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

dehydration?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't eat snow to hydrate yourself when lost in the snow, but drink your urine instead?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't give up hope - keep moving, don't give up, settle down and suffer from hypothermia.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't eat snow to hydrate yourself when lost in the snow, but drink your urine instead? Yuck, no :-))

Don't give up hope - keep moving, don't give up, settle down and suffer from hypothermia. No
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

dehydration? Yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't drink sea water?

(Actually, the thing about not 'drinking' snow is that you would never be able to get enough of it, but I was only guessing about the urine)
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 327
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(I think urine will keep you alive for several days -- you hear about it in earthquakes and such -- but you will eventually get dehydrated over a longer period of time)

So doing the obvious thing will eventually cause you to die from dehydration? But it's "obvious" because at first it seems like it will keep you hydrated? Or it seems like it will get you to water faster?

Is wandering around in the desert relevant? Athletics? Physical exertion? Being lost at sea?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 806
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't drink sea water? Yes, exactly

(Actually, the thing about not 'drinking' snow is that you would never be able to get enough of it, but I was only guessing about the urine)

(I think urine will keep you alive for several days -- you hear about it in earthquakes and such -- but you will eventually get dehydrated over a longer period of time) I guess that's correct; it definitely holds for sea water

So doing the obvious thing will eventually cause you to die from dehydration? Yes But it's "obvious" because at first it seems like it will keep you hydrated? Yes Or it seems like it will get you to water faster? We can say yes, too

Is wandering around in the desert relevant? No Athletics? No Physical exertion? No Being lost at sea? Yes
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So does the disgusting thing involve eating something gross? A raw animal? Seaweed? Drinking something gross? Drinking some animal's blood? Collecting dew in a gross way? Removing salt from sea water in a gross way?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 816
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So does the disgusting thing involve eating something gross? No A raw animal? Do explore this Seaweed? No Drinking something gross? Yes Drinking some animal's blood? Yesish Collecting dew in a gross way? No Removing salt from sea water in a gross way? No
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ew.

Not quite blood. Hmm. Drinking other fluids from an animal? Such as the fluid in an eye (yuck!!)? Not urine, right? Some other body fluid I haven't thought of? Or is it fluid from some animal that doesn't really have blood? Like a sponge? Or a jellyfish?

A cooked animal?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ew. Quite right.

Not quite blood. The answer was "yesish" :-)) Hmm. Drinking other fluids from an animal? Yes Such as the fluid in an eye Probably this would be a part of what you would be drinking(yuck!!)? I totally agree with you Not urine, right? Correct - that would be almost as dangerous as drinking sea water Some other body fluid I haven't thought of? Yes Or is it fluid from some animal that doesn't really have blood? Like a sponge? Or a jellyfish? Irrelevant

A cooked animal? No
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 337
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, yesish to blood, then. Is it a component of blood? Plasma? (though I fail to see how you could separate out the plasma from the rest of the blood while you're lost at sea!)

Or is it blood, but you're only yesishly drinking it? Are you using an IV? Is it a live animal, rather than a dead one?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And the person speaking: Adult? Male?
Are they someone you'd usually associate with teh sea? (adventurer, sailor, navy, pirate, yacht racer etc.) diverOccupation relevant? If so [LTPF list of occupations]?

Oh, does "yesish" blood mean it's blood AND other fluids?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fluid from a fish? Is it spinal fluid?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, yesish to blood, then. Is it a component of blood? Yes, but not only this Plasma? Yes but not only this(though I fail to see how you could separate out the plasma from the rest of the blood while you're lost at sea!) You don't, in fact

Or is it blood, but you're only yesishly drinking it? Are you using an IV? Is it a live animal, rather than a dead one? Neither

And the person speaking: Adult? Male? Both
Are they someone you'd usually associate with teh sea? (adventurer, sailor, navy, pirate, yacht racer etc.) diver No Occupation relevant? Yes If so [LTPF list of occupations]? Biologist, doctor, politician

Oh, does "yesish" blood mean it's blood AND other fluids? bingo!

Is the fluid from a fish? Yes Is it spinal fluid? Probably also this
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about wringing out (or squishing) a fish, and drinking whatever comes out?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about wringing out (or squishing) a fish, and drinking whatever comes out? Yes, exactly so.

You are there. If you summarize the piece of advice given in the puzzle statement, I am going to spoyle.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"If you're stranded on the open sea, don't drink the sea water, as tempting as it is; try to catch a fish and squeeze whatever you can out of it. As disgusting as it is, it may save your life."
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good one. In Men Against the Sea and other 'lost at sea' stories, it's noted that killing birds and drinking their blood was also an option, though since blood is a saline solution I wonder how effective it really was.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's it, Dropofahat, and here goes the

*****************SPOILER*****************



Motto:
"Water, water, everywhere,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink.“

Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Samuel Taylor Coleridge


The advice in the puzzle statement was given by Alain Bombard (1924 – 2005), a French biologist, physician and later also politician.

Bombard was shocked to learn that so many shipwrecked persons died on the ocean, and after carefully studying the subject, he found out that two main causes of their death were despair and dehydration.

He studied the latter in depth and conceived a theory that it is possible to survive on the ocean until the rescue comes without any provisions at all, only on what the sea is able to provide to you.

He knew it was dangerous to drink just salt water because it causes dehydration after some time (more water must be excreted to eliminate the salt via urine than the amount of water gained from drinking the seawater itself; moreover, the kidneys which regulate the amount of sodium chloride in human blood are unable to deal with such a concentration of it, water is drained from all cells and the person eventually dies.)

However, he found out that fresh fish contain between 50% and 80% usable water which is salt-free. This would enable you to survive healthily for quite a long period, provided six or seven pounds (about 3 kilos) of fish could be caught, and the water squeezed from them (at the beginning, he cut them to pieces and wrung them in his shirt). You can even drink limited quantities of seawater provided you combine it with salt-free water.

Although he was not a sailor and had little experience with navigation on the sea, he decided to test his theory on himself. On October 19, 1952, he went alone to the ocean, on an inflatable rubber lifeboat called L’Hérétique (The Heretic), which was only 4.5 meters long, with almost no provisions at all. He began his solitary trip across the Atlantic from the Canary Islands and reached Barbados on December 23, after 65 days and 4,400 kms of travel. He had lost 25 kg during the journey, was utterly exhausted but survived and proved his point.

Bombard wrote several books about his journey, including “Naufragé Volontaire“, “The Voyage of the Heretique“ and “The Bombard Story “

Although his theory was questioned later by Dr Hannes Lindemann (who alleged that Bombard was cheating), no one proved that with certainty.


Later, Dr Bombard became a Deputy in the European Parliament for the European Socialist Party. He died in Toulon, France in 2005 at age 80.


Thank you all for participating. I find Bombard's story fascinating and just had to share :-))

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