| Author | Message | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 874 Registered: 11-2008 |
"John? What are you doing to the child?" "Um, er... nothing, Amy, darling. I just wanted to..." "Stop it. NOW. If you don't, I'll divorce you. And don't you ever try it again." "All right, OK. Relax, Amy. I am not going to do it, then. No need to be afraid - if I don't do it right now, I will never be able to, anyway." What was John up to? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4084 Registered: 12-2000 |
Teaching the child nursery rhymes? Not just the violent ones but the ones that upset today's politically correct society? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 875 Registered: 11-2008 |
Teaching the child nursery rhymes? Not just the violent ones but the ones that upset today's politically correct society? LOL, no | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 923 Registered: 7-2001 |
naming the child? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2008 |
naming the child? No | ||
| Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
New member Username: Yabblesmacker Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2009 |
Amy - HAF? John - HAM? Amy and John are married? Is the child biologically Amy's child? Is the child biologically John's child? How old is the child- 0-3? 4-7? 8-12? 13-16? 16+? If most women saw John acting like this would they tell him to stop it? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 364 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he doing something physical? If so, was it painful? Annoying (e.g. tickling)? Abusive? A medical procedure? Was he doing something verbal? Teaching it something? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 877 Registered: 11-2008 |
Amy - HAF? John - HAM? Yes to all Amy and John are married? Probably but irrelevant Is the child biologically Amy's child? Yes Is the child biologically John's child? Yes How old is the child- 0-3? This 4-7? 8-12? 13-16? 16+? If most women saw John acting like this would they tell him to stop it? Oh, yes, definitely Was he doing something physical? Yes If so, was it painful? No Annoying (e.g. tickling)Noish? Abusive? No A medical procedure? Noish Was he doing something verbal? No Teaching it something? No | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 503 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is he trying to do something that is normally a woman's role? Dressing the poor child? Cutting its hair? Is it likely to bother the child? Is the child's exact age relevant? If so, <1 year? 1-2 years? 2-3? Would the thing be impossible because it is not done with older children? Because older children do it themselves? Because it involves a "first"? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 878 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is he trying to do something that is normally a woman's role? No Dressing the poor child? No Cutting its hair? No Is it likely to bother the child? Possibly Is the child's exact age relevant? Yes If so, <1 year? This 1-2 years? 2-3? Would the thing be impossible because it is not done with older children? Yesish Because older children do it themselves? No Because it involves a "first"? No | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 366 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was it something dangerous? Fine for adults but inappropriate for children? The only noish medical procedures I can think of at the moment are piercings and tatoos. Was it either of these? Was it something that used to be common in child rearing, but now we look down on it? Or was it something that has always been considered a bad idea. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 879 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was it something dangerous? Yes Fine for adults but inappropriate for children? No The only noish medical procedures I can think of at the moment are piercings and tatoos. Was it either of these? No Was it something that used to be common in child rearing, but now we look down on it? No Or was it something that has always been considered a bad idea. Difficult to answer, I think the best is Noish | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 367 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was the child M? F? Or could it be either? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 880 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was the child M? F? Or could it be either? Could be either, irrelevant | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2093 Registered: 1-2007 |
Does John feel he's acting in the childs best interests? Are his actions done out of love or affection? Or is he trying to live his dreams through his child like those awful beauty pageant parents you see on documentaries? Sports relevant? Anything to do with teething ? learning to walk? Is Amy annoyed solely because of what he's doing to the child? or does she take some personal affront from it i.e. she wasn't a good mother? Would a social worker take a very dim view of what John was doing? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 882 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does John feel he's acting in the childs best interests? Not really Are his actions done out of love or affection? No Or is he trying to live his dreams through his child like those awful beauty pageant parents you see on documentaries? No Sports relevant? No Anything to do with teething ? learning to walk? No to both Is Amy annoyed solely because of what he's doing to the child? Yes or does she take some personal affront from it i.e. she wasn't a good mother? No Would a social worker take a very dim view of what John was doing? Likely so | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 378 Registered: 8-2009 |
Is John trying to... make the baby laugh? ...entertain the baby? Was he attempting to do something, and it didn't work out the way he thought? Is the reason it can't be done later because the child grows too large (physically)? Does it involved the child's... head? face? (eyes? ears? nose? mouth?) neck? chest? stomach? back? arms? hands? legs? feet? Is another object or substance involved? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 883 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is John trying to... make the baby laugh? ...entertain the baby? No to both Was he attempting to do something Yes, and it didn't work out the way he thought? It didn't because Amy interrupted him Is the reason it can't be done later because the child grows too large (physically)? No but worth exploring Does it involved the child's... head? face? (eyes? ears? nose? mouth?) neck? chest? stomach? back? arms? hands? Mostly this legs? feet? Is another object or substance involved?No | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 380 Registered: 8-2009 |
His reason for attempting it was: Curiousity? To see if it was possible? Just for the hell of it? Did the think the baby would enjoy it? Is he swinging the baby by the arms? Is he putting the baby's arms in an awkward position? Bending or twisting them? Is the reason he won't be able to do it anymore because... the baby's arms won't be so "limber" for much longer? ...the baby will lose its baby fat? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 884 Registered: 11-2008 |
His reason for attempting it was: Curiousity? Yes To see if it was possible? Yes Just for the hell of it? Curiosity is closest Did the think the baby would enjoy it? Irr Is he swinging the baby by the arms? Not exactly Is he putting the baby's arms in an awkward position? Bending or twisting them? No to all Is the reason he won't be able to do it anymore because... the baby's arms won't be so "limber" for much longer? ...the baby will lose its baby fat? No to all | ||
| Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
New member Username: Ohlala8 Post Number: 383 Registered: 6-2009 |
When he says he needs to do it "right now," does he mean this second? this minute? this hour? this day? this week? this month? this year? Is there some milestone happening to the baby right now? Was it just born? teeth coming in? umbilical cord falling off? Fingernails growing? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1360 Registered: 5-2003 |
Circumcision, by any chance? He won't be able to do it because the baby's bones will harden shortly? Or for some other reason related to maturation? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 887 Registered: 11-2008 |
When he says he needs to do it "right now," does he mean this second? this minute? this hour? possibly this day? possibly this week? this month? this year? Is there some milestone happening to the baby right now? Yesish Was it just born?Yes teeth coming in? umbilical cord falling off? Fingernails growing? No to the rest Circumcision, by any chance? No He won't be able to do it because the baby's bones will harden shortly? No Or for some other reason related to maturation? Yesish | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 888 Registered: 11-2008 |
Hang on - I've just learned something so I must post a BLOOOPER! When he says he needs to do it "right now," does he mean this second? this minute? this hour? possibly this day? possibly this week? this month? this year? Should have been rather this week/month. Definitely not a year, though. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1362 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is he tossing the baby in the air and catching her? Is she getting heavier? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 504 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is he making loud noises so the child will reflexively stick its arms and legs straight up? Not that I've ever done that to a baby, of course... | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 891 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is he tossing the baby in the air and catching her? Is she getting heavier? Is he making loud noises so the child will reflexively stick its arms and legs straight up? Not that I've ever done that to a baby, of course.. No to all. | ||
| Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
New member Username: Ferrets101 Post Number: 99 Registered: 8-2009 |
If John did the action in question, would the baby: die? be injured physically? suffer brain damage? Is the wife threatening to divorce John if he does the action because: She feels it indicates John is irresponsible? She feels it indicates John is violent? She feels it indicates John is mentally ill? If John were to commit the action, would Amy really divorce him? Or was it just an empty threat? Any of the following: Extramarital affairs? Sex (as in intercourse, not gender)? for what it's worth, sex isn't the same as gender, and I'd love to do a puzzle about it but I can't think of how to work it in. Pregnancy (aside from simply that the wife just had a baby). When you say the baby was just born, do you mean it was born in the last minute? Hour? Day? Month? Year? Or did this occur the instant the baby emerged from Amy? Is the baby's gender relevant? | ||
| Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
New member Username: Ferrets101 Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2009 |
One question I forgot: Was the baby born in a Caesarian section? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 896 Registered: 11-2008 |
If John did the action in question, would the baby: die? be injured physically? suffer brain damage? If he did the action in question, all you are suggesting could in theory happen if things went wrong; however, there is a big chance the baby would not be injured at all Is the wife threatening to divorce John if he does the action because: She feels it indicates John is irresponsible? Yes She feels it indicates John is violent? No She feels it indicates John is mentally ill? She might feel this as well If John were to commit the action, would Amy really divorce him? Or was it just an empty threat? I am afraid only Amy knows the answer to this :-)) I reckon she would divorce him if things went wrong, she wouldn't if they didn't Any of the following: Extramarital affairs? No Sex (as in intercourse, not gender)? No for what it's worth, sex isn't the same as gender, and I'd love to do a puzzle about it but I can't think of how to work it in. I'm looking forward to it :-)) Pregnancy (aside from simply that the wife just had a baby). I am afraid I do not understand; however, pregnancy as such is not relevant to our puzzle When you say the baby was just born, do you mean it was born in the last minute? Hour? Day? All these three would work Month? Possibly but less likely Year? No Or did this occur the instant the baby emerged from Amy? No, not the very instant; could have happened, say, minutes/hours later Is the baby's gender relevant? Not at all Was the baby born in a Caesarian section? Irrelevant | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2008 |
Does this have to do with the *shudder* soft spot at the back of the head? With lanugo? With any reflexes/instincts that a baby has, which an adult lacks? Is this something done often to babies? If so, is it usually considered irresponsible parenting? Is it one of those things that many people do routinely in childcare, but others consider fatal to the baby (ex. putting the baby to sleep on its stomach) ? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 903 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does this have to do with the *shudder* soft spot at the back of the head? No :-)) With lanugo? NoWith any reflexes/instincts that a baby has, which an adult lacks? Yes Is this something done often to babies? AFAIK, no If so, is it usually considered irresponsible parenting? I think a lot of people would consider it irresponsible Is it one of those things that many people do routinely in childcare, but others consider fatal to the baby (ex. putting the baby to sleep on its stomach) ? I see what you mean, but no | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 904 Registered: 11-2008 |
With any reflexes And to be more precise, this/instincts that a baby has, which an adult lacks? | ||
| Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
New member Username: Yabblesmacker Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2009 |
Isn't there some reflex about babies holding their breath whilst underwater? Was he holding the baby underwater? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 908 Registered: 11-2008 |
Isn't there some reflex about babies holding their breath whilst underwater?I think there is, but it is not relevant to our puzzle Was he holding the baby underwater? So no | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 509 Registered: 10-2008 |
Does the reflex involve reacting to sight? Bright light? Darkness? Sound? Smell? Taste? Touch? Does it cause the baby to move? Make a face? Make a sound? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 915 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does the reflex involve reacting to sight? Bright light? Darkness? Sound? Smell? Taste? Touch? This-ish, no to rest Does it cause the baby to move? Yesish, but beware a FA Make a face? No Make a sound? No | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 382 Registered: 8-2009 |
Is it that reflex (forgot what it's called, if it has a name) where if you don't support a baby's neck, the baby's hands automatically move make a clasping motion? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is it that reflex (forgot what it's called, if it has a name) where if you don't support a baby's neck, the baby's hands automatically move make a clasping motion? You mean the Moro reflex; it is not what we are looking for, but you are definitely on the right track | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 518 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is Amy objecting to the touch(ish) that is causing the reflex? Or to creating the reflex itself? Does it involve holding the baby upside down? Swinging him upside down? Because I would definitely object to that... | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 921 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Amy objecting to the touch(ish) that is causing the reflex? Or to creating the reflex itself? I would rather say this Does it involve holding the baby upside down? Swinging him upside down? No Because I would definitely object to that... So would I :-)) I think you are already a little baby step from the solution - so don't give up :-)) | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 523 Registered: 10-2008 |
Does this involve a reflex in which the baby curls/spreads its digits? Is it a response to heat? Cold? Is Amy objecting to an involuntary movement that John is causing the child to perform? Or is the child moving not under its own motor control (like being rocked)? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 927 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does this involve a reflex in which the baby curls This-ish/spreads its digits? Is it a response to heat? Cold? No to both Is Amy objecting to an involuntary movement that John is causing the child to perform? Or is the child moving not under its own motor control (like being rocked)? This | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 383 Registered: 8-2009 |
Does the reflex cause the baby to... close its hands? ...clench its fists? ...open its hands wide? ...bend its arms inward? ...open its arms wide? Is the "Thorburn Position" relevant (elbows out, hands on the throat)? What the father does to provoke the reflex, does it involve... his mouth? his hands? Is he touching the baby's... arms? Elbows? shoulders? wrists? back? stomach? neck? head? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 933 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does the reflex cause the baby to... close its hands? Yes ...clench its fists? Yes...open its hands wide? ...bend its arms inward? ...open its arms wide? No to rest Is the "Thorburn Position" relevant (elbows out, hands on the throat)? No What the father does to provoke the reflex, does it involve... his mouth? his hands? Neither Is he touching the baby's... arms? Elbows? shoulders? wrists? back? stomach? neck? head? Neither | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 385 Registered: 8-2009 |
So the reflex causes the baby to close/clench its hand/fist? On something? Does he touch the baby's hand with some part of his body? Does he put something in the baby's hand and it grabs it? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 935 Registered: 11-2008 |
So the reflex causes the baby to close/clench its hand/fist? Yes On something? Yes Does he touch the baby's hand with some part of his body? Yes, he does.But it would work just the same if he touched the baby's hand with an object Does he put something in the baby's hand and it grabs it? Exactly so. If you want to ask Uncle Google, please feel free to do so :-)) | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 387 Registered: 8-2009 |
"Grasp reflex"? If so, do we have to figure out why it's potentially dangerous? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 937 Registered: 11-2008 |
"Grasp reflex"? You got it! If so, do we have to figure out why it's potentially dangerous? Exactly so. | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 388 Registered: 8-2009 |
You said it didn't involve another object or substance, and it's not John's hands or mouth... Does it involve John's... head? ...neck? Torso? Arm? Leg? Foot? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 938 Registered: 11-2008 |
You said it didn't involve another object or substance, and it's not John's hands or mouth...Sorry, a BLOOOPER! It DOES involve John's hands. I must have overlooked this, I do apologize. Does it involve John's... head? ...neck? Torso? Arm? Leg? Foot? | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 391 Registered: 8-2009 |
Does john put his finger in the baby's hand? and he makes the baby hang in the air, holding only his finger? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 939 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does john put his finger in the baby's hand? and he makes the baby hang in the air, holding only his finger? This is exactly what he is doing, and here goes the *************SPOILER***************** There are several reflexes a normal baby is born with which disappear with its natural development. One of them is the palmar grasp reflex, which appears at birth and persists until five or six months of age. When an object is placed in the infant's hand and strokes their palm, the fingers will close and they will grasp it. The grip is very strong and often able to support the child's own weight, but also unpredictable - the infant may also release its grip suddenly and without warning. This is also the reason why Amy's protest was so fervent. It's quite an amazing thing, look for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9m1ghkTVPU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xz4XxPXh6I&feature=related I must confess that I thought of trying it on my newborn children but did not find the courage. However, my uncle, who was a paediatrician (and the greatest lateral thinker I've ever met) tried it on his three sons, who apparently survived the test :-)) Thank you all for participating in my puzzle, and Dropofahat for firmly grasping the solution. | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 393 Registered: 8-2009 |
Nice one, Alhucema! | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 942 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thank you, Matt! | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 527 Registered: 10-2008 |
Haha, good puzzle! Actually, I would consider trying this on my infant, if there were lots of cushions beneath and he or she was only lifted a few inches. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 947 Registered: 11-2008 |
I was considering it seriously before the kids were born, but I chickened out every time :-)) | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 397 Registered: 8-2009 |
Besides the possibility of falling, I think it's bad for their shoulders, they're not fused yet; they're not designed to hold their own weight at that age. Heck, you shouldn't even swing a young child around by the arms for the same reason... | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 948 Registered: 11-2008 |
That's true. My brother-in-law dislocated my nephew's shoulder like that when he was about eight or so. I am glad I was not in his shoes when he had to explain what happened in hospital. However, if you look at the videos again, the infants' arms seem quite firm - looks like if their muscles were strong enough to support their weight without dislocating the shoulder. I'm far from being an expert, though, so please take this with a pinch of salt. | ||
| Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
New member Username: Dropofahat Post Number: 398 Registered: 8-2009 |
I guess a baby's weight is small enough that a few seconds won't hurt. But I took an osteology class once, and they said that those bones don't fully fuse until, I forget, sometime in the early teen years or something. And until then, it's not real safe to put much strain on them. |
