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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1452
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Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A man deliberately injures himself to save another man's career. Explain.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 496
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Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sports? Blue collar job? Journalism? Theatre?

Are both men in the same profession?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 235
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Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The career: In a medical profession? A legal one? Scientific? Administration? Military?

Is the first man trying to hush up something the other has done? Not done?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1453
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sports? Blue collar job? Journalism? Theatre? No to all.

Are both men in the same profession? Yes.

The career: In a medical profession? A legal one? Scientific? Elements of this. Administration? Military? Also this.

Is the first man trying to hush up something the other has done? Not done? No to both.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 395
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scientific and military: would this be the Manhattan project? Developing technology/weapons for the military?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1469
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scientific and military: would this be the Manhattan project? Developing technology/weapons for the military? No to both, though military technology is involved. Look out for FAs.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1062
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call the man who injures himself Sam, and the man whose career is saved Mark?

Does Sam know Mark? And vice versa?

If so, does Sam like Mark? Vice versa?

Does Sam also profit from saving Mark's career?

Does Sam hurt himself in order to:

- prove Mark was right to do something?
- protect Mark's reputation?

Does Sam just injure himself, or is there more to it? Is it relevant which part of his body is injured? The type of injury? What he hurts himself with?

Would you qualify Sam's wound as a serious one?

Is it a bullet/stab wound? Caused by a hot/cold substance? Impact? Radiation? Does he bleed? Does he have any bones broken?

Is Mark injured too?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 239
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LTPF list of centuries, please.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1470
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call the man who injures himself Sam, and the man whose career is saved Mark? Sure.

Does Sam know Mark? And vice versa? Yes.

If so, does Sam like Mark? Vice versa? Irr, assume yes.

Does Sam also profit from saving Mark's career? No.

Does Sam hurt himself in order to:

- prove Mark was right to do something? No.
- protect Mark's reputation? Yes.

Does Sam just injure himself, or is there more to it? The latter. Is it relevant which part of his body is injured? Yes. The type of injury? Yes. What he hurts himself with? Yes.

Would you qualify Sam's wound as a serious one? No.

Is it a bullet/stab wound? No. Caused by a hot/cold substance? No. Impact? This. Radiation? No. Does he bleed? No. Does he have any bones broken? No.

Is Mark injured too? No.

LTPF list of centuries, please. 20th.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 530
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the act of injuring himself part of an experiment? a demonstration? part of a survey or other kind of research? an attempt to prove a point?
Was the impact electricity? electro-magnetic waves? shockwave (supersonic?)? heat? light? laser beam? chemical? biological?
physical? psychical/mental?
Relevant that both Sam and Mark are male?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Military tech that's involved -- is it a form of:
Transportation (e.g. tanks, fighter jets, helicopters, watercraft)?
Ordnance (e.g. weapons, artillery, missiles, bullets)?
Protective equipment (e.g. body armor, Kevlar helmet, goggles)?
UAV/UGV?
Surveillance equipment?
Navigational equipment?
Parachutes? Uniforms?
Other?
Does this have anything to do with USAMRIID? Atomic energy/bomb? the Army Corps of Engineers?

Is Sam a citizen of the United States? Is Mark?
Are they in the military themselves? Do they work for the military (as civilians)? Do they work for a military contractor? Is it relevant which branch of the military is involved here? Is this military the United States military? If not, is it a military from [insert LTPF list of continents]?

The elements of science involved -- would they be most closely related to the field of physics? chemistry? biology? astronomy? computer science? engineering? health science? earth sciences? other?

Does this occur during a time of war/conflict? If so, WWI? Spanish Civil War? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? The Troubles? Bay of Pigs? Falklands War? Gulf War? Other?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1472
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the act of injuring himself part of an experiment? Yesish. a demonstration? Yes. part of a survey or other kind of research? No. an attempt to prove a point? Yes.
Was the impact electricity? electro-magnetic waves? shockwave (supersonic?)? heat? light? laser beam? chemical? biological?
physical? This. psychical/mental?
Relevant that both Sam and Mark are male? Not really.

Military tech that's involved -- is it a form of:
Transportation (e.g. tanks, fighter jets, helicopters, watercraft)? This.
Ordnance (e.g. weapons, artillery, missiles, bullets)? And this.
Protective equipment (e.g. body armor, Kevlar helmet, goggles)?
UAV/UGV?
Surveillance equipment?
Navigational equipment?
Parachutes? Uniforms?
Other?
Does this have anything to do with USAMRIID? Atomic energy/bomb? the Army Corps of Engineers? No to all the others.

Is Sam a citizen of the United States? Is Mark?
Are they in the military themselves? Yes to all three. Do they work for the military (as civilians)? No. Do they work for a military contractor? No. Is it relevant which branch of the military is involved here? Not really. Is this military the United States military? Yes. If not, is it a military from [insert LTPF list of continents]?

The elements of science involved -- would they be most closely related to the field of physics? chemistry? biology? astronomy? computer science? engineering? This, though most of the others have partial and tangential roles. health science? earth sciences? other?

Does this occur during a time of war/conflict? No. If so, WWI? Spanish Civil War? WWII? Korea? Vietnam? The Troubles? Bay of Pigs? Falklands War? Gulf War? Other?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1068
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Mark want to demonstrate something is bulletproof?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1473
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Mark want to demonstrate something is bulletproof? No.
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 581
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Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sam's activity done in attempt to deceive Mark's superiors?

In the military, is Sam Mark's superior?
His equal?
His inferior?

Does the self-injury serve primarily as a distraction?

Gosh, the forum is just dry this weekend!
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sam's activity done in attempt to deceive Mark's superiors? No.

In the military, is Sam Mark's superior? Their ranks are irrelevant.
His equal?
His inferior?

Does the self-injury serve primarily as a distraction? No.

Gosh, the forum is just dry this weekend!
Finno (Finno)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Mark would have been fired from his job if Sam did not injure himself?
Are they indulged in some form of boxing, fighting with weapons? Is Sam bleeding? Are they proper soldiers or trainees? Other people relevant? If yes how many?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1487
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Mark would have been fired from his job if Sam did not injure himself? Possibly.
Are they indulged in some form of boxing, fighting with weapons? No. Is Sam bleeding? No. Are they proper soldiers or trainees? The former. Other people relevant? Yes. If yes how many?
All members of a fairly large organization.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 568
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mark's injury a bruise? A broken bone? A swollen area? A black eye?

Was Mark trying to demonstrate that a certain type of injury is possible? Was he testing a piece of equipment? Was he covering something up?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mark's injury a bruise? This. A broken bone? A swollen area? A black eye?

Was Mark trying to demonstrate that a certain type of injury is possible? Yope. Was he testing a piece of equipment? No. Was he covering something up? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 574
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he hit himself with an object? Punch himself? Kick himself? Run into something? Stand in the way of something?

Head? Arms? Legs? Chest? Groin? Buttocks? Hands? Feet? Belly? Back?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1514
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he hit himself with an object? Punch himself? Kick himself? Run into something? Stand in the way of something? None of the above.

Head? Arms? Legs? Chest? Groin? Buttocks? Hands? This. Feet? Belly? Back?
Finno (Finno)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he operating a gun, hand grenade, knife, mortar, missile?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 579
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he punch something? Or someone? Or put his hand under a falling object? Or in the way of a moving object?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1515
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he operating a gun, hand grenade, knife, mortar, missile? No to all, though a missile is involved.

Did he punch something? Something like that. Or someone? Or put his hand under a falling object? Or in the way of a moving object? Very much so, though you don't have to figure out what exactly.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sam trying to demonstrate that a certain weapon could accidentally be fired in a certain manner? that a certain design was unsafe? that anyone who had tried to do the same thing as he was doing would have been bruised?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sam trying to demonstrate that a certain weapon could accidentally be fired in a certain manner? No. that a certain design was unsafe? Yes. that anyone who had tried to do the same thing as he was doing would have been bruised? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mark pointing out that a design was unsafe, his superiors/employers didn't belive him, but Sam proved him right? Could Mark just as well have made the demonstration himself?

Was the danger of injury in transporting a missile? Or mounting/loading it? Readying it for use? Getting in the way of some movement of an operational weapons system? If not a missile, some other kind of ordnance?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mark pointing out that a design was unsafe, his superiors/employers didn't belive him, but Sam proved him right? No. Could Mark just as well have made the demonstration himself? Perhaps, but not under the same circumstances.

Was the danger of injury in transporting a missile? Or mounting/loading it? Readying it for use? Getting in the way of some movement of an operational weapons system? If not a missile, some other kind of ordnance? No to all, FA.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the injury itself the "goal" of Sam's action? Or did he (to save Marks career) have to do something, where injury was inevitable?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the injury itself the "goal" of Sam's action? Or did he (to save Marks career) have to do something, where injury was inevitable? Yes to both, actually.

A hint: Their profession matters.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Mark treat Sam's injury? Or something Mark had created was used to treat Sam?
Was this some sort of protest against a regulation? That Sam thought unsafe?
Was Mark in on Sam getting himself injured for his sake? Or was he completely unaware?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Mark treat Sam's injury? Or something Mark had created was used to treat Sam? No to both.
Was this some sort of protest against a regulation? No, though it could be vaguely considered a protest. That Sam thought unsafe? Something was unsafe, but not the regulation.
Was Mark in on Sam getting himself injured for his sake? Or was he completely unaware? Irrelevant.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that was unsafe a device? A procedure?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that was unsafe a device? A procedure? A device used in a procedure.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a device used to arm a missile? to load a missile?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 3:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a device used to arm a missile? to load a missile? Neither.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with retrieving a missile that failed to explode?
Viking25 (Viking25)
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Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any type of corruption in the fairly large organization?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with retrieving a missile that failed to explode? No.

Is there any type of corruption in the fairly large organization? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would changing the device make the procedure safe? Would changing the procedure make everything safe?
Are they working with:
Design/development of new hardware?
Testing? Safety testing/certification?
Creating procedures for use?
Verifying procedures?
Is the device a weapon? Part of a weapon? Would it be used in a theatre of war?
Were more serious injuries possible than bruising of a hand? Deaths? Is the device automated?
Is the injurythe result of a missing safety device? Wrong/misplaced/malfunctioning safety device? Did Mark know about the problem before Sam demonstrated it? did Sam demonstrate it to Mark? To someone else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would changing the device make the procedure safe? Yes. Would changing the procedure make everything safe? Oh, no, not at all.

Are they working with:
Design/development of new hardware?
Testing? Safety testing/certification?
Creating procedures for use?
Verifying procedures? Yes to all; look out for FAs.

Is the device a weapon? Part of a weapon? Yope to this, no to the others. Would it be used in a theatre of war?

Were more serious injuries possible than bruising of a hand? Deaths? From this specific device? No. Is the device automated? No.
Is the injury the result of a missing safety device? Wrong/misplaced/malfunctioning safety device? This, and "misplaced" is the most likely specific reason. Did Mark know about the problem before Sam demonstrated it? Yes. did Sam demonstrate it to Mark? To someone else? This.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it part of a weapons system, but not the weapon itself (such as tank treads)?
Would the injury happen when:
assembling the device?
Transporting the device?
Mounting the device on something else?
Mounting something on the device?
Arming the device (if applicable)?
Using the device?
Maintenance/cleaning?
Disassembly?
Would it have helped if Mark had just told the third party about the problem? Did he? If not, would it help us to know why?
Is the third party one person? Or is it the "fairly large organization" mentioned earlier?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it part of a weapons system Yope., but not the weapon itself (such as tank treads)? Yes.
Would the injury happen when:
assembling the device?
Transporting the device?
Mounting the device on something else?
Mounting something on the device?
Arming the device (if applicable)?
Using the device? This.
Maintenance/cleaning?
Disassembly?
Would it have helped if Mark had just told the third party about the problem? No. Did he? Yes. If not, would it help us to know why? Yes.
Is the third party one person? Or is it the "fairly large organization" mentioned earlier? This.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it part of a ground vehicle? Boat? Sub? Aircraft? If not, will it be used aboard any of those?
The missile involved, is it hand portable, mounted on a vehicle, or stationary?
Is the device (part of) a targeting system?
Did Mark's superiors not belive him when he told them of the issue? Did they not trust his opinion? Had someone else (someone outranking him?) said it was safe? Had Mark previously said it was safe?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it part of a ground vehicle? Boat? Sub? Aircraft? Technically, none of the above. If not, will it be used aboard any of those? It is at times carried aboard a ship.
The missile involved, is it hand portable, mounted on a vehicle, or stationary? Stationary.
Is the device (part of) a targeting system? No.
Did Mark's superiors not belive him when he told them of the issue? No, but he was speaking of a different issue at the time. Did they not trust his opinion? Correct. Had someone else (someone outranking him?) said it was safe? Irr. Had Mark previously said it was safe? Irr.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

can the device be called an instrument? Tool? Is it operated completely manually (ie only by human power)? Is it operated by one person?
Is it used aboard a ship, or only carried?
Did Mark's superiors not trust his opinion because: He had been wrong before? they trusted someone else's opinion over his? They trusted their own opinion over his? They didn't believe the scenario he described was possible?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1602
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

can the device be called an instrument? Tool? Neither. Is it operated completely manually (ie only by human power)? No. Is it operated by one person? Yes.
Is it used aboard a ship This., or only carried?
Did Mark's superiors not trust his opinion because: He had been wrong before? they trusted someone else's opinion over his? They trusted their own opinion over his? They didn't believe the scenario he described was possible? This.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1607
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: Mark was blamed for losing something valuable.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 920
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he lose jewelry? money? secrets? private documents?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 211
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or a missile?
Was the loss related to the device in any way?
Did Sam's demonstration absolve Mark from the blame of losing the valuable object?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1610
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he lose jewelry? money? secrets? private documents? None of the above.

Or a missile? Well, part of one. Ish.
Was the loss related to the device in any way? Possibly.
Did Sam's demonstration absolve Mark from the blame of losing the valuable object? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 224
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what kind of missile it is? Does it deliver a payload? A warhead? Was it fired?
Was the valuable object destroyed? Or just lost? Was it fuel/oxidizer for the missile? Missile software? Missile support systems? Did he personally lose it? Or was it just his responsibility at the time? Or was he responsible for something/someone involved in the loss?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what kind of missile it is? Yes. Does it deliver a payload? A warhead? Yesish to both. Was it fired? Yes.
Was the valuable object destroyed? Or just lost? This. Was it fuel/oxidizer for the missile? Missile software? Missile support systems? No to all. Did he personally lose it? Or was it just his responsibility at the time? Thisish. Or was he responsible for something/someone involved in the loss? He was believed to be.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 241
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Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the missile a:
Ballistic missile? Surface-to-air missile? Cruise missile? Orbital rocket? Was it a training missile (carrying a dummy warhead)?
Was the lost object the missile payload? Was the loss from: incorrect aiming/guidance of the missile? Failure to track the missile?
Did Sam's demonstration show that what happened was an accident? Or someone else's fault? Was something damaged, or in danger of being damaged, in addition to Sam's hand? Did it show the loss was/wasn't related to the device? Or related in a different way?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the missile a:
Ballistic missile? Surface-to-air missile? Cruise missile? Orbital rocket? This. Was it a training missile (carrying a dummy warhead)? No.
Was the lost object the missile payload? Yesish. Was the loss from: incorrect aiming/guidance of the missile? Failure to track the missile? No to both.
Did Sam's demonstration show that what happened was an accident? It implied it. Or someone else's fault? No. Was something damaged, or in danger of being damaged, in addition to Sam's hand? In a sense. Did it show the loss was/wasn't related to the device? Irrelevant. Or related in a different way? Yesish.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 271
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Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 3:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dis the missile reach orbit? The correct orbit? Was the payload released? Deployed (if needed)? Is it a satellite?
Is the device involved in the (design? assembly? transport? loading?) of the payload?
Was something incorrect with the missile/payload when it was sent to space?
Is the device reusable? Is it only used for one specific task?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1625
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Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 5:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dis the missile reach orbit? No. The correct orbit? Was the payload released? Deployed (if needed)? Is it a satellite? No.
Is the device involved in the (design? assembly? transport? loading?) of the payload? No.
Was something incorrect with the missile/payload when it was sent to space? No.
Is the device reusable? No. Is it only used for one specific task? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1626
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Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I missed a couple:

Was the payload released? Yes. Deployed (if needed)? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and I was wrong about the the orbital element -- it was a ballistic missile.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the device "spent" (unable to be used again) by Sam's demonstration?
Was the lost object meant to be retrieved? Was it the retrieval that failed? Did it fall into the sea? Was it meant to? Was that object reusable? Is the missile and payload the same thing/not separated during use? Parachute involved? Parachute failure?
Did the missile follow its intended trajectory?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the device "spent" (unable to be used again) by Sam's demonstration? Yes.
Was the lost object meant to be retrieved? Yes. Was it the retrieval that failed? Yes. Did it fall into the sea? Yes. Was it meant to? Yes. Was that object reusable? No. Is the missile and payload the same thing/not separated during use? No. Parachute involved? Yes. Parachute failure? No.
Did the missile follow its intended trajectory? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 289
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Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the device used for retrieving the payload? Does it involve the use of pressurized gas? A chemical reaction? Pyrotechics? Trained animals?
Does it fail to:
Locate the payload? Attach to it? Hold on to it? Does the device fail to resurface (if applicable)? Is the demonstration showing how the device can be accidentally activated?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1629
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Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the device used for retrieving the payload? Depending on your definition of payload, it can be used for such if necessary. Does it involve the use of pressurized gas? A chemical reaction? This. Pyrotechics? Trained animals?
Does it fail to:
Locate the payload? Attach to it? Hold on to it? Does the device fail to resurface (if applicable)? Is the demonstration showing how the device can be accidentally activated? No to all.

There seems to be a few FAs here...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 295
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Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see the FAs now...my brain doesn't work right when I'm sick (but I have all the time in the world for LTPF)
Now then...

Is the device related to airbags in any way?
Does the chemical reaction produce:
Noise? Light? Gas? Heat? Cold? Vacuum? A useful chemical? Mechanical movement? A change in color?
The retrieval failed. Did it fail because of: Inability to locate the lost object? Inability to get to it? Losing it after it has been located? Is the object floating in the sea? Or located on the ocean floor? Is it a spent, reusable rocket stage?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see the FAs now... Are you sure? ;b my brain doesn't work right when I'm sick (but I have all the time in the world for LTPF)
Now then...

Is the device related to airbags in any way? No.
Does the chemical reaction produce:
Noise? Light? Gas? Heat? All of the above. Cold? Vacuum? A useful chemical? Mechanical movement? This. A change in color?
The retrieval failed. Did it fail because of: Inability to locate the lost object? Inability to get to it? Losing it after it has been located? This. Is the object floating in the sea? Briefly. Or located on the ocean floor? This (though it was eventually recovered.) Is it a spent, reusable rocket stage? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 325
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Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the device fire something? Launch something? Inflate? Is it a harpoon gun?
Was the object hoisted (or attempted to be)? Did it float until the retrieval attempt, and then sink? If so, was Mark blamed for the sinking?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1632
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Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the device fire something? Launch something? Yes to both, in a sense. Inflate? No. Is it a harpoon gun? No.
Was the object hoisted (or attempted to be)? Yes. Did it float until the retrieval attempt, and then sink? Yes. If so, was Mark blamed for the sinking? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 343
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Important exactly what the valuable object is? Or do we know enough about it already?
Does the device launch a line/wire? Did Mark put his hand in the way of the launched object (is there a launched object)? Would a functioning safety device have prevented him from doing that? Or prevented the device from firing?
Was the valuable object damaged? Was something used to retrieve it damaged? Was it hit by something? By the launched object?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1636
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Important exactly what the valuable object is? Yes. Or do we know enough about it already? No.
Does the device launch a line/wire? No. Did Mark put his hand in the way of the launched object No. (is there a launched object)? You could say so. Would a functioning safety device have prevented him from doing that? Or prevented the device from firing? FA.
Was the valuable object damaged? Yes. Was something used to retrieve it damaged? No. Was it hit by something? No. By the launched object? No.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Post Number: 434
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Mark want the object not to be retrieved?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Mark want the object not to be retrieved? Incorrect.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 362
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object damaged because it sank? Or did it sink because it was damaged? Does it perform a function? If so, did it do that while under the parachute? In free fall? Other? Is it a prototype? Ramjets/scramjets relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object damaged because it sank? Or did it sink because it was damaged? Both. Does it perform a function? Yep. If so, did it do that while under the parachute? No. In free fall? Yes, for svv of freefall. Other? Yes. Is it a prototype? Not really. Ramjets/scramjets relevant? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 366
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Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the object: take measurements? Pictures? Is it military? Is it a well known thing? Can it be described as a device? Machine? Is it reusable? Does it contain something (important? valuable?) which it gained during its function? Did it fly (ie not follow a ballistic trajectory, while not under the parachute)? Maneuver? Anything alive inside it? Can the mission be described as a test? Training excercise?

About the device: is it smaller than an ice cube?Fist? Football? Garbage can? Human? Car? House? Bigger?
Is it disposed of after it's spent? Or recharged?
It's launching/firing something in a sense, does that mean the lauched part stays attached? Or that something is launched but that's only incidental to its purpose (like an explosive bolt flying apart)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the object: take measurements? No. Pictures? No. Is it military? No. Is it a well known thing? Yes. Can it be described as a device? Ish. Machine? Yes. Is it reusable? No. Does it contain something Yes. (important? Yes. valuable? Depends on your viewpoint. which it gained during its function? No. Did it fly (ie not follow a ballistic trajectory, while not under the parachute)? No. Maneuver? Yes. Anything alive inside it? Yes. Can the mission be described as a test? Yes. Training excercise? No.

About the device: is it smaller than an ice cube?Fist? The part that injured Sam, yes. Football? Garbage can? The part that was 'launched,' yes. Human? Car? House? Bigger?
Is it disposed of after it's spent? Yes. Or recharged?
It's launching/firing something in a sense, does that mean the lauched part stays attached? No. Or that something is launched but that's only incidental to its purpose (like an explosive bolt flying apart)? Something like this.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it contain: Insect? Animal? Bird? Human? More than one? Did the living thing sink also? Did it die? Did it control the flight of the object? Can the valuable object be described as a capsule? Aircraft?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it contain: Insect? Animal? Bird? Human? This. More than one? No. Did the living thing sink also? No. Did it die? No. Did it control the flight of the object? Yes. Can the valuable object be described as a capsule? This. Aircraft?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was either Sam or Mark aboard the capsule? If not, is it relevant who was? Was the test part of a space program?
Did the capsule capsize while floating in the sea? Or come lose and fall into the sea while being hoisted? Afterwards?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was either Sam or Mark aboard the capsule? If not, is it relevant who was? Yes to both, but be specific. Was the test part of a space program? Yes.
Did the capsule capsize while floating in the sea? Or come lose and fall into the sea while being hoisted? Afterwards? No to all.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So both Sam and Mark are astronauts?
Was Sam aboard the capsule? Mark?
Did Mark cover for a mistake Sam did? the other way around?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 3:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So both Sam and Mark are astronauts? Yes.
Was Sam aboard the capsule? That was lost? No. Mark? Yes.
Did Mark cover for a mistake Sam did? the other way around? No to both.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Sam and Mark are astronauts. Mark goes up in a capsule aboard a rocket, it is successfully deployed and lands in the sea under parachutes. Mark gets out of the capsule, but during the recovery it sinks. Mark's superiors blamed him for the sinking.
There is a device involved somehow, and Sam demonstrates that a device is unsafe by injuring himself with it. This demonstration absolves Mark from the blame for losing the capsule.

Is the device part of the capsule? Or aboard the capsule during launch? During recovery? Is it accidentally activated? Or intentionally but with unforeseen consequences? Or not at all? If not, should it have been? Is it carried? Wheeled? Or permanently mounted? Is it only supposed to be used in an emergency?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Sam and Mark are astronauts. Mark goes up in a capsule aboard a rocket, it is successfully deployed and lands in the sea under parachutes. Mark gets out of the capsule, but during the recovery it sinks. Mark's superiors blamed him for the sinking.
There is a device involved somehow, and Sam demonstrates that a device is unsafe by injuring himself with it. This demonstration absolves Mark from the blame for losing the capsule.

Essentially you've got it, but you're still missing a couple things.

Is the device part of the capsule? Yes. Or aboard the capsule during launch? During recovery? Is it accidentally activated? Yes. Or intentionally but with unforeseen consequences? Or not at all? If not, should it have been? No. Is it carried? Wheeled? Or permanently mounted? This. Is it only supposed to be used in an emergency? This.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the device have to do with the buoyancy of the capsule? Does activating it deflate the part that makes it float? Or puncture a hole in it? Or break the integrity of the capsule's structure?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the device activated by a switch? Lever? Is the activation device insufficiently protected? Like a switch cover that can be accidentally opened, or activate the switch even when closed? Is the device an escape hatch?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the device have to do with the buoyancy of the capsule? No. Does activating it deflate the part that makes it float? No. Or puncture a hole in it? Yesish. Or break the integrity of the capsule's structure? Yes.

Is the device activated by a switch? Yes. Lever? Something like a plunger, I think; exact appearance or operation is irrelevant. Is the activation device insufficiently protected? Probably. Like a switch cover that can be accidentally opened, or activate the switch even when closed? No, but OTRT. Is the device an escape hatch? Yes.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he demonstrating that you couldn't do something else without accidentally opening the escape hatch?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he demonstrating that you couldn't do something else without accidentally opening the escape hatch? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mark blamed for intentionally blowing the escape hatch? Or negligently? Was he blamed for not following procedure? And Sam's demonstration showed that it could just as well have been an accident? And could've happened even if Mark had done everything as he should?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mark blamed for intentionally blowing the escape hatch? Or negligently? Was he blamed for not following procedure? Any of the above; no one was sure at the time. And Sam's demonstration showed that it could just as well have been an accident? Yes, but how so? And could've happened even if Mark had done everything as he should? Yesish.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do the same thing they thought Mark had done? And in the process showed how Mark could have accidentally blown the hatch? Did Mark hurt his hand when the escape hatch blew? Could Sam have avoided hurting his hand?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do the same thing they thought Mark had done? Yes. And in the process showed how Mark could have accidentally blown the hatch? No. Did Mark hurt his hand when the escape hatch blew? No. Could Sam have avoided hurting his hand? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that Sam hurt his hand while Mark didn't?
Did Mark hurt another body part? Did they not do exactly the same? Was mark simply not hurt because his hand (or other body part) was better protected? Because the capsule was in the water at the time? (was it?) Did Sam do his demonstration on the capsule? Or only parts of it/only the escape hatch system, not mounted in the capsule? Relevant? Relevant exactly how Sam hurt his hand, in more detail than we already know?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that Sam hurt his hand while Mark didn't? Yes.
Did Mark hurt another body part? No. Did they not do exactly the same? Exactly the same what? Was mark simply not hurt because his hand (or other body part) was better protected? No. Because the capsule was in the water at the time? No. (was it?) Mark's capsule was in the water, Sam's wasn't. Did Sam do his demonstration on the capsule? Yes. Or only parts of it/only the escape hatch system, not mounted in the capsule? No. Relevant? Not really. Relevant exactly how Sam hurt his hand, in more detail than we already know? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do his demonstration to: show that he would hurt his hand if it was done like that? To show that Mark could have blown the hatch accidentally? To show that the safety device was ineffective? Was it his intention to save Mark's career?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do his demonstration to: show that he would hurt his hand if it was done like that? Yes. To show that Mark could have blown the hatch accidentally? No. To show that the safety device was ineffective? No. Was it his intention to save Mark's career? Yes.

You've got everything you need to know; now put it all together.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sam and Mark are astronauts.
Mark went up in a capsule, the mission was successful and he splashed down in the sea. During the retrieval however, Mark inadvertently blew the escape hatch, which lead to the sinking of the capsule.
He explained to his superiors what had happened, but they didn't believe the scenario to be possible and were sure Mark had done something wrong.
Sam goes on to prove that the design of the escape hatch/trigger is not safe, by blowing it in a way that hurts his hand. This shows their superiors that what Mark did could very well have been an accident.
(I'm not sure exactly how this connection is made, except they think the design is safe and Sam proves that it's not)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sam and Mark are astronauts. Correct.
Mark went up in a capsule, the mission was successful and he splashed down in the sea. Correct. During the retrieval however, Mark inadvertently blew the escape hatch, No, or so he claimed. which lead to the sinking of the capsule. Yes.
He explained to his superiors what had happened, but they didn't believe the scenario to be possible and were sure Mark had done something wrong. Correct.
Sam goes on to prove that the design of the escape hatch/trigger is not safe, by blowing it in a way that hurts his hand. This shows their superiors that what Mark did could very well have been an accident. How so?
(I'm not sure exactly how this connection is made, except they think the design is safe and Sam proves that it's not) And this means...?

You're right on top of the solution. What's the final leap?
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do what "they" thought Mark had done? Did he open the escape hatch? and hurt his hand?
Did he convince them that anybody who opens the escape hatch inadvertently will hurt his hand? and so Mark could not have opened it? because his hand was not hurt? and, consequently, the hatch must have opened "by itself"?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sam do what "they" thought Mark had done? Did he open the escape hatch? and hurt his hand? No to all.
Did he convince them that anybody who opens the escape hatch inadvertently will hurt his hand? and so Mark could not have opened it? because his hand was not hurt? and, consequently, the hatch must have opened "by itself"? Dingdingdingdingding!

Mark is astronaut Gus Grissom, whose first flight on Liberty Bell 7 ended with the firing of the emergency hatch release (for still unknown reasons). Because of the hole in the spacecraft, the ship filled with water and sank. Grissom swore he had not touched the emergency release, and that the hatch "just blew" on its own. He was not believed at first. Several months later, Sam, AKA Wally Schirra, completed his own Mercury flight aboard Sigma 7. He waited until he and his craft were aboard the recovery ship, then deliberately pulled the emergency release. His hand was injured because of the nearness of the release to the explosive charges they set off. He then made the very cogent point that Grissom's hand had not been injured, which it would have been if he had deliberately pulled the release, and Grissom was no longer under suspicion.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, and SPOILER.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great puzzle, though I got stuck at the very last step.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I also got stuck, couldn't open the hatch...

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