| Author | Message | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 340 Registered: 5-2009 |
He got what many others asked for. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1163 Registered: 11-2008 |
A sudden death? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 341 Registered: 5-2009 |
A sudden death? No. What an idea... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 661 Registered: 7-2009 |
He got a physical object(s)? A state of being? An emotional state? A statement of praise? An answer? A gift? An idea? A person? A title? Would most people consider what he got to be positive? negative? neutral? Did he consider it to be positive? negative? neutral? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 342 Registered: 5-2009 |
He got a physical object(s)? Yes, but this is quite misleading. A state of being? Kind of. An emotional state? No. A statement of praise? No. An answer? Kind of. A gift? No. An idea? No. A person? No. A title? No (*grin*). Would most people consider what he got to be positive? This. negative? neutral? Did he consider it to be positive? negative? In a certain sense, yes. neutral? In another sense this. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1164 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was he an intended target of something? Was the actual blow (in either literal or figurative sense) actually delivered to a different person? Is "he" the only person involved? If not, are there 2? 3? more? relevant persons? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 343 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he an intended target of something? Noish. Was the actual blow (in either literal or figurative sense) actually delivered to a different person? Yope. Possible FA. Is "he" the only person involved? No. If not, are there 2? 3? more? relevant persons? At least a second relevant person, very probably a third, maybe a few more. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1168 Registered: 11-2008 |
FA because it wasn't actually a blow? Aberratio ictus is (basically) when somebody wants to hit A but hits B instead, correct? Is it this type of situation, or is it more lateral? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 348 Registered: 5-2009 |
FA because it wasn't actually a blow? It wasn't even what I would consider a blow in a figurative sense. After all, it's something many others asked for. Aberratio ictus is (basically) when somebody wants to hit A but hits B instead, correct? Yes. Is it this type of situation, or is it more lateral? It's somewhat more complicated. And I'm afraid I must correct a *** BLOOPER ***: The answer to the question Would most people consider what he got to be positive? should be Yope. Most people who actually get what "he" got consider it positive. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1169 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was it positive just for "him"? Can we call "him" Peter? Was there another person who was meant to get what Peter got? If so, was there just one such person? H?A?M? Relevant? Was (or would ) "it" be positive also for him/her? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 349 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was it positive just for "him"? No. It was *not* positive for him. Can we call "him" Peter? Sure. Was there another person who was meant to get what Peter got? Yesish or Yope. If so, was there just one such person? No. H?A?M? All H and M, almost all A. Relevant? Yes. Was (or would ) "it" be positive also for him/her? No. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1171 Registered: 11-2008 |
So he got something what would be positive for most people but wasn't for him? Was there any difference between Peter and most people? If so, physical? Psychological? The persons who were meant to get what Peter got. Were they 2? 3? 4? 5? More than 10? More than 100? Professions relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 350 Registered: 5-2009 |
So he got something what would be positive for most people Yope. but wasn't for him? True. Was there any difference between Peter and most people? Yes, probable FA. If so, physical? No or irrelevant. Psychological? No or irrelevant. The persons who were meant to get what Peter got. Were they 2? 3? 4? 5? More than 10? More than 100? This. Professions relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 351 Registered: 5-2009 |
Professions relevant? Yesish. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 678 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is Peter HAM? Did the >100 people who were meant to get what Peter got actually get it? The reason they were all male...related to the military? To catholic clergy/monks? To a male-only club? To male anatomy or physiology? To fatherhood? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 353 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is Peter HAM? H, rest irrelevant. Did the >100 people who were meant to get what Peter got actually get it? Yes. The reason they were all male...related to the military? This. To catholic clergy/monks? To a male-only club? To male anatomy or physiology? To fatherhood? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 680 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did he get drafted? Released from the military? An honorable discharge? A rank promotion? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 355 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he get drafted? Released from the military? This is closest but still wrong. An honorable discharge? A rank promotion? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 682 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did he die? Get a vacation? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 357 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he die? Get a vacation? No. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 684 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he injured? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 360 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he injured? No. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 688 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he ever in the military? Was he told he was unable to join for a health reason? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 361 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he ever in the military? Possibly, but... Was he told he was unable to join for a health reason? No. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he in the military at the time of the puzzle statement? Just prior to getting whatever he got? Was he affiliated with the military in a civilian capacity? Is what he got something that would affect someone in the military in a certain way? But that affected him in a way that had nothing to do with the military? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 362 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he in the military at the time of the puzzle statement? No. Just prior to getting whatever he got? No. Was he affiliated with the military in a civilian capacity? No or irrelevant. Is what he got something that would affect someone in the military in a certain way? Yes. But that affected him in a way that had nothing to do with the military? Yesish. Insofar as it affected him at all. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 691 Registered: 7-2009 |
Would it have been positive for someone in the military to get what he got? But it was negative for him because he wasn't in the military? Did he retire? Was it a retirement gift? For a forced retirement? Did he get laid off? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 363 Registered: 5-2009 |
Would it have been positive for someone in the military to get what he got? Yesish. But it was negative for him because he wasn't in the military? No. Most people who get this aren't in the military. Did he retire? Was it a retirement gift? For a forced retirement? Did he get laid off? No to all. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1179 Registered: 11-2008 |
In the military - as a professional? Or on an obligatory military service? Is Peter's age relevant? His health? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 368 Registered: 5-2009 |
In the military - as a professional? Or on an obligatory military service? Who? Peter is not in the military, and it is only possible that he was a soldier before. Also, most people who get "it" are not in the military. However, what's relevant in general is obligatory military service. Is Peter's age relevant? His health? Not really. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 720 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the draft relevant? Is he in a country where everyone serves in the military for a while when they're young? Does what he get make him excused from military service in some way? Make it so that he has to go to the military? Does he get a clean bill of health? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1219 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did he get "it" rightfully? Or by mistake? Are you saying that what he got would have more sense/be more useful for someone being in the military, while it is worthless for someone who is not? WOuld the people who get "it" and are not in the military feel about "it" similarly as Peter did? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 379 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is the draft relevant? Yes. Is he in a country where everyone serves in the military for a while when they're young? Yes for svv of "everyone". Does what he get make him excused from military service in some way? This. Make it so that he has to go to the military? Does he get a clean bill of health? No. Did he get "it" rightfully? Or by mistake? This. Are you saying that what he got would have more sense/be more useful for someone being in the military, while it is worthless for someone who is not? No. Again, most people who get this are not in the military. WOuld the people who get "it" and are not in the military feel about "it" similarly as Peter did? So, no. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 548 Registered: 6-2003 |
Was Peter drafted for the military? did he avoid being drafted? did he not have to serve although being drafted? Was someone else drafted? Did someone have to be released from military? because he was drafted by mistake? Was a woman drafted because she was taken for a man? Are other people besides Peter relevant? Relatives? Friends? People in the military? Is Peter married? Does he have children? Relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 380 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was Peter drafted for the military? No. did he avoid being drafted? Yope. did he not have to serve although being drafted? He was not drafted. Was someone else drafted? No (besides those usually being drafted). Did someone have to be released from military? No (besides those usually being released). because he was drafted by mistake? No. Was a woman drafted because she was taken To a man? No. Are other people besides Peter relevant? Yes. Relatives? Friends? People in the military? No. Is Peter married? Does he have children? Relevant? Both questions are irrelevant. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 778 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he misdiagnosed with a health problem? Did his records get switched with someone else? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 381 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he misdiagnosed with a health problem? No. Nothing health-related is relevant. Did his records get switched with someone else? Yope. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he mistaken for someone else? Mistaken for being a member of a group he was not? Or mistaken for not being a member of a group? Did what he got have negative consequences for his: Health? Morale? Mood? Reputation? Work? Career? Private life? Privacy? Future? Other people in his vicinity (family, coworkers, neighbors etc)? Did it have any positive consequences at all for him? If so, was it the same positive consequences as the other people got? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he mistaken for someone else? No. Mistaken for being a member of a group he was not? Yes. Or mistaken for not being a member of a group? Yes. Did what he got have negative consequences for his: Health? Morale? Mood? This. Reputation? Work? Career? Private life? Privacy? Future? Other people in his vicinity (family, coworkers, neighbors etc)? Did it have any positive consequences at all for him? No. If so, was it the same positive consequences as the other people got? FA. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 371 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is this about eligibility for drafting? He got a notion that he wasn't eligible for drafting? and while he didn't actually want to be drafted, he didn't like to be excluded from the group of eligible? especially not for the given reason? homo-sexuality? illness? dysfunction? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 383 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is this about eligibility for drafting? No. He got a notion that he wasn't eligible for drafting? So, no. and while he didn't actually want to be drafted, he didn't like to be excluded from the group of eligible? So, irrelevant. especially not for the given reason? So, FA. homo-sexuality? illness? dysfunction? Nothing of these is relevant. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was his bad mood a direct effect of what he recieved? Or because it implied something else? Because it implied that he (was? wasn't?) a member of a certain group? Was he mistaken for belonging to group B instead of group A? Are either of these groups small (less than 1% of the population)? Are they exclusive to each other (i.e. you can only belong to either A or B)? Did he get offended/insulted? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 385 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was his bad mood a direct effect of what he recieved? Noish. Or because it implied something else? Yesish. Because it implied that he (was? wasn't?) a member of a certain group? No. Was he mistaken for belonging to group B instead of group A? Yes. Are either of these groups small (less than 1% of the population)? Yes, but... Are they exclusive to each other (i.e. you can only belong to either A or B)? Yesish. Did he get offended/insulted? Noish. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1253 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is membership in Group A considered to be more prestigious than in Group B? Vice versa? Was the mistake deliberate? Just administrative? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 390 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is membership in Group A considered to be more prestigious than in Group B? Vice versa? Difficult to say, also irrelevant. Was the mistake deliberate? Just administrative? This. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 553 Registered: 6-2003 |
Does he belong to group A? to group B? neither? Does belonging to group B imply not to belong to group B? Is this the reason for his bad mood? Is belonging to group A or B something everyone can decide himself? is it an consequence of one's decisions? (like: living in a particular place, working in a particular profession?) is it decided by other people? decided by birth? just by chance? Is one of the groups the army? part of the army? Are all members in group A adult? male? same questions for group B? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 392 Registered: 5-2009 |
Does he belong to group A? This. to group B? neither? Does belonging to group B imply not to belong to group B? One of these should be an A? It somehow depends on the definition of the groups, but I answer it Yes. Is this the reason for his bad mood? No. Is belonging to group A or B something everyone can decide himself? No. is it an consequence of one's decisions? Yes. (like: living in a particular place This decision is relevant for group A., working in a particular profession? This decision is somehow relevant for group B.) is it decided by other people? Decisions of other people are somehow relevant for both groups. decided by birth? This is relevant for group B. just by chance? No. Is one of the groups the army? No. part of the army? No. Are all members in group A adult? No. male? No. same questions for group B? All of them are male, most of them are adult. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 931 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did he get an award of some sort? Or recognition of some sort? For something he hadn't done? But members of group B did do? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 398 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he get an award of some sort? No. Or recognition of some sort? Yes. For something he hadn't done? But no. Not recognition _for_ something but recognition _as_ something. But members of group B did do? As something members of group B were (or claimed to be, depending on how exactly you define the groups). | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 939 Registered: 7-2009 |
Recognition as a veteran? As a POW? As a hero? As something else military related? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 406 Registered: 5-2009 |
Recognition as a veteran? As a POW? As a hero? No to all. As something else military related? Yes. But note that people who get this are no soldiers. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 943 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are they family members of soliders? People who are unable to be soldiers? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2009 |
Are they family members of soliders? Some of them are, not always relevant. People who are unable to be soldiers? Usually no. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 946 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are they civilian employees of a military base? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 416 Registered: 5-2009 |
Are they civilian employees of a military base? No. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 438 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hint: Amnesty International regularly reports on both groups in question (at least for svv of group membership). | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 424 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is the title relevant? someone was mistaken for someone else? Terrorists relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 443 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is the title relevant? Somewhat. someone was mistaken for someone else? Yope. Terrorists relevant? No. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 561 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is any of the two groups (or part of it): immigrants? foreigners? expats? gays? criminals? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 446 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is any of the two groups (or part of it): immigrants? Group B is part of this group. foreigners?Group B is part of this group. expats? Well, from the perspective of the country of origin, immigrants to another country are expats... gays? criminals? No to rest. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 449 Registered: 5-2009 |
***BLOOPER ALERT! *** I confused the groups. Group A (the group to which Peter actually belongs) consists of foreigners and immigrants, not group B. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1034 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was he accidentally identified as a citizen? Even though he was not? Which lots of immigrants want to be? But it made him appear to be eligible for compulsory military service? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 463 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he accidentally identified as a citizen? No. What he got would only make sense for a citizen, however. Even though he was not? He was not a citizen. Which lots of immigrants want to be? True, but not relevant for the puzzle. But it made him appear to be eligible for compulsory military service? No. Again, it would only make sense if he was in principle eligible for being drafted. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 426 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he told he would not be drafted? Because the work he was doing as a civilian was more valuable for the country? But since he was not a citizen he wouldn't have been drafted anyway? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 478 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was he told he would not be drafted? Yesish. Because the work he was doing as a civilian was more valuable for the country? No. But since he was not a citizen he wouldn't have been drafted anyway? Yes. And there's more to it. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1674 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is he H/A/M? Did he receive a draft notice? An order to register for the draft? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 484 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is he H/A/M? He is H, rest irrelevant, you can assume A and M. Did he receive a draft notice? No. An order to register for the draft? No. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 497 Registered: 3-2004 |
Did he somehow get a note that he wasn't eligible for drafting? no longer eligible for drafting? which he anyway never had been and never could be? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 495 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he somehow get a note that he wasn't eligible for drafting? no longer eligible for drafting? Yesish. which he anyway never had been and never could be? Yes (at least not in the relevant country) | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 581 Registered: 6-2003 |
So the people in group B share: that they're male? something related to their profession? and something that is decided by birth? Are the people in group B citizens of that country? Do they have a profession for which only citizens are accepted? government officials? members of parliament? police? judges? university professors? Or a professional sports team? Does membership in group B imply that one is not eligible for drafting? if so: because of the profession? Would the LTPF list of reasons for not being drafted help? (married? in education? living with children? doing or having done service in police/fire brigade/civil defence/development aid? female? too old? too young? engaged with the draft officer's daughter? priest/parson/vicar/deacon?) | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 513 Registered: 5-2009 |
So the people in group B share: that they're male? Yes. something related to their profession? Only in a negative way. and something that is decided by birth? Yes, insofar as birth is relevant for citizenship. Are the people in group B citizens of that country? Yes. Do they have a profession for which only citizens are accepted? No, the only relevant thing is that only citizens can be drafted. government officials? members of parliament? police? judges? university professors? Or a professional sports team? So, no. Does membership in group B imply that one is not eligible for drafting? It depends on the exact definition of group B. if so: because of the profession? No. Would the LTPF list of reasons for not being drafted help? if it is comprehensive, yes. (married? in education? living with children? doing or having done service in police/fire brigade/civil defence/development aid? This is closest but not really close. female? too old? too young? engaged with the draft officer's daughter? priest/parson/vicar/deacon?) | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 728 Registered: 3-2004 |
Politics relevant? health? unemployment? lifestyle? bodily functions? intelligence? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2009 |
Politics relevant? Yes. health? unemployment? lifestyle? Somewhat. bodily functions? intelligence? No to the others. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 731 Registered: 3-2004 |
Communism relevant? political focus of neighboring countries? national security? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 542 Registered: 5-2009 |
Communism relevant? political focus of neighboring countries? national security? These factors were relevant as reasons for the existence of the draft and had an influence on the decision of people whether to ask for what he got. No further relevance of them. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 862 Registered: 3-2004 |
Homelessness relevant? ballots? proof of being able to vote? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 546 Registered: 5-2009 |
Homelessness relevant? ballots? proof of being able to vote? None of these. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 557 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hint: He asked for something else. Only a foreigner could possibly get what he asked for. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1430 Registered: 7-2009 |
A visa? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 559 Registered: 5-2009 |
A visa? No. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1057 Registered: 3-2004 |
Permit to leave the country to go to his home country? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 568 Registered: 5-2009 |
Permit to leave the country to go to his home country? No. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 387 Registered: 9-2008 |
Did Peter ask for asylum or refugee protection? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 569 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did Peter ask for asylum or refugee protection? Yes. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 398 Registered: 9-2008 |
So Peter asked for asylum but by mistake got permission to do civilian alternative service or serve as a foreign development aide, instead? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 607 Registered: 5-2009 |
So Peter asked for asylum but by mistake got permission to do civilian alternative service or serve as a foreign development aide, instead? Yes. He is recognised as a conscientious objector. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2072 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he wish to be a registered conscientious objector? Is it normally difficult to be recognized as such? And this is why others desire it (because they get out of military service)? Was he offered asylum? Could he have been? Was he not offered it because of some regulation or political problem? And to get around this he was named a conscientious objector? Was he a defector? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 626 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he wish to be a registered conscientious objector? No. Is it normally difficult to be recognized as such? For some it is. And this is why others desire it (because they get out of military service)? Yes. Was he offered asylum? No or not yet. Could he have been? Possibly. Was he not offered it because of some regulation or political problem? Possibly, exact reason irrelevant. And to get around this he was named a conscientious objector? No. Was he a defector? No. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1116 Registered: 9-2009 |
So he's annoyed that he was registered as a CO. Because he didn't want to be? Because he wanted asylum instead? Because it is redundant? Because he wanted to be in the army eventually? Is there more to find out in this puzzle? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 674 Registered: 5-2009 |
So he's annoyed that he was registered as a CO. Because he didn't want to be? No. Because he wanted asylum instead? Yes, and... Because it is redundant? No. Because he wanted to be in the army eventually? No. Is there more to find out in this puzzle? Yes. The reason why he got recognition as a CO without having applied for it. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2335 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he fill out a form incorrectly? Did someone else? Did he, or anyone else involved, have a scrund? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 681 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he fill out a form incorrectly? No. Did someone else? No, but very much OTRT. Did he, or anyone else involved, have a scrund? Irrelevant. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1299 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did someone else read a form incorrectly? Mistype information from a form? | ||
| Ryzler (Ryzler)
New member Username: Ryzler Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2010 |
He got the "sentence" (in a court from a judge) that many others asked for him to get? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 1170 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hey there, Markobr, please answer the above questions so this puzzle doesn't end up in Limbo. Thanks! | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 682 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did someone else read a form incorrectly? No. Mistype information from a form? Not a form, not really mistype, but still somewhat OTRT. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 683 Registered: 5-2009 |
He got the "sentence" (in a court from a judge) that many others asked for him to get? Yes. | ||
| Prav (Prav)
New member Username: Prav Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did religion play role in him being denied asylum? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 686 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did religion play role in him being denied asylum? Probably not. Irrelevant. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2725 Registered: 5-2003 |
Welcome back! We've missed you. Were the others who asked for him to get the sentence hostile or friendly to him? Is there some particular benefit to being registered as a conscientious objector that he needed? Are the location or time period relevant? Was he doing all this to support or protect someone? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 690 Registered: 5-2009 |
Welcome back! We've missed you. "Willst Du gelten, mach' Dich selten" as we say here in Germany... Were the others who asked for him to get the sentence hostile or friendly to him? FA. Nobody asked for him to be recognised as a CO. "many others asked for" just means that, at that time, many people asked for recognition as a CO. Is there some particular benefit to being registered as a conscientious objector that he needed? No. Are the location or time period relevant? Yes. Germany, late 1980s. Was he doing all this to support or protect someone? Doing? What? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2729 Registered: 5-2003 |
"FA. Nobody asked for him to be recognised as a CO." I was confused by your response to this: "He got the "sentence" (in a court from a judge) that many others asked for him to get?" Was his intention at starting the entire procedure just to help himself, or would someone else benefit from him having asylum? Marriage laws relevant? In the US getting married or joining the military are considered good routes to being allowed to stay in the country, and a step on the path to citizenship. Cold War relevant? Reunification of Germany relevant? Protests of some sort relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 708 Registered: 5-2009 |
"FA. Nobody asked for him to be recognised as a CO." I was confused by your response to this: "He got the "sentence" (in a court from a judge) that many others asked for him to get?" Sorry. I was wrong there. So *BLOOPER* alert: He got a court decision saying he is recognised as a CO. This was what many others were asking for themselves at that time. Was his intention at starting the entire procedure just to help himself, Assume this. or would someone else benefit from him having asylum? Marriage laws relevant? No. In the US getting married or joining the military are considered good routes to being allowed to stay in the country, and a step on the path to citizenship. So in the US you can join the army without being a citizen first? I didn't know that. As for the puzzle: watch out for FAs. Note that he didn't demand recognition as a CO. Cold War relevant? Reunification of Germany relevant? No. Protests of some sort relevant? To the rest: Only as a background which explains that the draft exists and many people demand recognition as a CO. Nothing new to be learned there. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2734 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ah, so it would work anywhere a draft is common. Did the draft itself have something to do with his request for asylum -- For example, could he have asked for it through a National Service organization? Or through a business connection? Or joined the church? Is Peter an East German in West Germany? Ost-Berliner in West Berlin? Vice versa? Trying not to get sent home? Are his reasons for asking asylum relevant? The reasons for making him a CO instead? Was he trying to join the army? Trying to avoid it? Trying to exploit a loophole? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 719 Registered: 5-2009 |
Ah, so it would work anywhere a draft is common. Yesish. Did the draft itself have something to do with his request for asylum -- For example, could he have asked for it through a National Service organization? Or through a business connection? Or joined the church? Simply assume he applied for political asylum in the normal way at the responsible public authority and finally went to court about it. Is Peter an East German in West Germany? No. Ost-Berliner in West Berlin? No. Vice versa? No. Trying not to get sent home? Yes. Are his reasons for asking asylum relevant? No. The reasons for making him a CO instead? Yes. "making him" is not really correct, however. Watch out for FAs. Was he trying to join the army? Trying to avoid it? Trying to exploit a loophole? No or irrelevant to all. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2789 Registered: 5-2003 |
Were the authorities sympathetic to his request for asylum? Could they not grant it for some reason? And granted him CO status instead? Did having CO status give him the same functional benefit as having asylum? Do we have to figure out what COs and asylum-seekers have in common? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 732 Registered: 5-2009 |
Were the authorities sympathetic to his request for asylum? Possibly, irrelevant. Could they not grant it for some reason? At least they didn't, which is why the case went to court. The reason is irrelevant. And granted him CO status instead? No. Did having CO status give him the same functional benefit as having asylum? No. And it is at least unclear whether he had CO status. Do we have to figure out what COs and asylum-seekers have in common? In a way, yes. The relevant attribute has already been mentioned. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2827 Registered: 5-2003 |
He went to court... because they gave/offered him CO status and he wanted asylum instead? Or was someone else the plaintiff? Was he in danger of deportation? Was he a wanted fugitive? Did anyone involved have a scrund? If not the court, who offered him CO status or otherwise had authority in his case (ie, who did he ask for asylum)? - Another judge or member of a court? - A member of a military organization? - Or of a paramilitary organization such as police or border patrol? - A politician/political body? - An embassy or consulate? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 744 Registered: 5-2009 |
He went to court... because they gave/offered him CO status No. and he wanted asylum instead? He went to court because he wanted asylum. CO status plays a role only after him going to court. Or was someone else the plaintiff? No, he was the plaintiff. Was he in danger of deportation? Possibly, irrelevant. Was he a wanted fugitive? Probably not, irrelevant. Did anyone involved have a scrund? No. If not the court, who offered him CO status or otherwise had authority in his case (ie, who did he ask for asylum)? It was the court. "Offered" is not correct, however. - Another judge or member of a court? - A member of a military organization? - Or of a paramilitary organization such as police or border patrol? - A politician/political body? - An embassy or consulate? Hint 1: The course of action, from his point of viev is: He applies for political asylum at the public authority responsible for such cases. His application is denied, and he goes to court about it. After some proceedings he is delivered a court decision saying he is recognised as a CO. Hint 2: This is much easier than you think. No legal or political tricks involved. | ||
| Beccaann (Beccaann)
New member Username: Beccaann Post Number: 2090 Registered: 6-2006 |
Was it the same court that denied that asylum request as recognized him as a CO? Or was he perhaps a dodge drafter from country A seeking asylum in country B and after being denied asylum, country A recognized him as a CO? | ||
| Beccaann (Beccaann)
New member Username: Beccaann Post Number: 2091 Registered: 6-2006 |
i meant draft dodger when i said dodge drafter, by the way. this is what happens when i stay up until 4am on he internet... | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 745 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was it the same court that denied that asylum request as recognized him as a CO? Only one court and only one court decision is involved. The court decision says he is recognised as a CO. Denying the request for asylum was an administrative decision. Or was he perhaps a draft dodger from country A seeking asylum in country B and after being denied asylum, country A recognized him as a CO? No. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2854 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is a scrund relevant? Is the language he used to make the request relevant? Are the forms/bureaucracy relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 746 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is a scrund relevant? No. Is the language he used to make the request relevant? No. Are the forms/bureaucracy relevant? Yesish. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2975 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was anything relevant misfiled or had a typo? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 753 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was anything relevant misfiled or had a typo? YESISH. "Misfiled" and/or "typo" are not really correct but you're going in the right direction. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2983 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did someone fill out the wrong form? Put the wrong answer on a question? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 755 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did someone fill out the wrong form? No, but getting closer. Put the wrong answer on a question? Again no, but in a certain sense closer. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 765 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hint: What do you need to really mess things up? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2139 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was a check mark placed in a wrong box? Was a name filled incorrectly? Or a number? Social security number relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 778 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was a check mark placed in a wrong box? Possibly. Was a name filled incorrectly? No. Or a number? Possibly. Social security number relevant? No. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3067 Registered: 5-2003 |
"To err is human. To really screw things up takes a computer." Relevant? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 785 Registered: 5-2009 |
"To err is human. To really screw things up takes a computer." Relevant? Yes. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3081 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was something input into a computer? If so, was it numerical or wordy in nature? Then saved in the wrong place? Failed to save? Was an operation started? GIGO relevant? Did anyone relevant have a scrund? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 800 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was something input into a computer? Yes. If so, was it numerical or wordy in nature? Both is possible. Then saved in the wrong place? No. Failed to save? No. Was an operation started? Yes. GIGO relevant? Yes. Did anyone relevant have a scrund? No. | ||
| Fermat1601 (Fermat1601)
New member Username: Fermat1601 Post Number: 84 Registered: 6-2010 |
German language relevant? The information given to the computer was correct? Was that which the computer put out correct given the input? (i.e. did the operation execute like it was supposed to?) Did the computer scan something? And mis-OCR it? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 801 Registered: 5-2009 |
German language relevant? No. This would work with any written language. The information given to the computer was correct? No. Was that which the computer put out correct given the input? Yes. (i.e. did the operation execute like it was supposed to?) So, yes. Did the computer scan something? No. And mis-OCR it? No. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2278 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the human error small/easily made? But since the computer only does what it's told without reasoning, the result became this big foul-up? Did the court not question the output of the computer? Were neccessary checks and verifications not in place/not done? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 804 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was the human error small/easily made? Yes. But since the computer only does what it's told without reasoning, the result became this big foul-up? Yesish. Reasoning alone probably wouldn't have helped much however. Did the court not question the output of the computer? Yes. Were neccessary checks and verifications not in place/not done? Yes. | ||
| Fermat1601 (Fermat1601)
New member Username: Fermat1601 Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2010 |
Was the error in entering the person's name? nationality / citizenship? criminal record? refugee status? pacifist status? army record? belonging to some group? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 808 Registered: 5-2009 |
Was the error in entering the person's name? No. nationality / citizenship? No. criminal record? No. refugee status? In a way. pacifist status? In a way. army record? No. belonging to some group? In a way. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 838 Registered: 5-2009 |
If anyone still wants to solve this, he or she should ask questions now, or else I will spoil it. Last hints: 1. Lawsuits about political asylum were really common. 2. Lawsuits about conscientous objection were really common. 3. Text processing systems usually include special functions for really common tasks. | ||
| Fermat1601 (Fermat1601)
New member Username: Fermat1601 Post Number: 106 Registered: 6-2010 |
This is late 1980s, right? Was the data being entered into a plain text document? a rich text document? a spreadsheet? Was the computer running Windows? If so: was the text processor MS Word? / Notepad? Was there some problem with copying/cutting/pasting? saving? opening a document? formatting? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 839 Registered: 5-2009 |
This is late 1980s, right? Yes. Was the data being entered into a plain text document? a rich text document? Not directly into a document, but... - the result was a text document. Probably rich text, but not really relevant. a spreadsheet? No. Was the computer running Windows? Irrelevant. If so: was the text processor MS Word? / Notepad? Not Notepad, not sure whether it would have worked with MS Word back then (since when it does it even exist?). Assume some specialised application, maybe developed by a governmental data centre. Was there some problem with copying/cutting/pasting? Pasting is real close. saving? opening a document? formatting? No to the rest. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2551 Registered: 9-2009 |
Hotkeys relevant? Did someone press the wrong key combination, resulting in the wrong standard text being automatically inserted? And then didn't check it? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 840 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hotkeys relevant? Not exactly hotkeys I think, but something alike. Did someone press the wrong key combination, resulting in the wrong standard text being automatically inserted? YES! You got it. And then didn't check it? Exactly. So, finally I can write a == SPOILER == Back in the eighties, two very common types of lawsuits in Germany were those of asylum seekers on the one hand and conscientous objectors on the other hand both being denied their requests by the authorities and going to court about it. In both cases, the administrative courts were competent to hear the cases, and with the onset of electronic data processing in the judiciary they had standard texts for common court orders in these areas which could be automatically inserted into documents by entering a certain codenumber. Well, one day a court clerk carelessly entered the wrong number, and the judge obviously didn't read the text of the decision before signing it. The result was an asylum seeker getting a court decicion which told him he was recognised as a conscientous objector. |
