[Gourami] The Pass Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - November 2009 » [Gourami] The Pass « Previous Next »

Author Message
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 689
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alex failed a test, and simultaneously passed a test he didn't know he was taking.
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
New member
Username: Quovynyte

Post Number: 136
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the test he passed a test of courage? Endurance? Strength? A academic test?

Was the test he failed an academic test.
Did he know he was taking Test1 (the test he failed)?

Did he want to fail it?
Mani (Mani)
New member
Username: Mani

Post Number: 298
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

test 1 = "fake" test?

test 2 = psychological test? which involved some kind of (faked or "faked") test taking as an activity? Morality issues relevant?

hidden camera involved?
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
New member
Username: Cupofsun

Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Occupation relevant?
HAM/F?
Was he a student?
1st test for school?
2nd test for school?
Middle/high/college/grad/list of schools?
Cheating involved?
Plagiarism?

Is this an Art Alexakis (Everclear) reference?
Mani (Mani)
New member
Username: Mani

Post Number: 299
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense which would be illegal and the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit. In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal guilt."

Relevant?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 692
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quovynyte (Quovynyte)

was the test he passed a test of courage? Endurance? Strength? A academic test? This.

Was the test he failed an academic test? Yes.
Did he know he was taking Test1 (the test he failed)? Yes.

Did he want to fail it? No.

Mani (Mani)

test 1 = "fake" test? No.

test 2 = psychological test? which involved some kind of (faked or "faked") test taking as an activity? Morality issues relevant? No to all.

hidden camera involved? No.

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

Occupation relevant? See below.
HAM/F? HAM.
Was he a student? Yes.
1st test for school? Yes.
2nd test for school? Yesish.
Middle/high/college/grad/list of schools? Could be any, most likely college.
Cheating involved? No.
Plagiarism? No.

Is this an Art Alexakis (Everclear)reference? I was referring to Alex Lifeson of RUSH, but does Everclear have a relevant song?

Mani (Mani)

"Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense which would be illegal and the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit. In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal guilt."

Relevant? Nope.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 825
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a test of following directions? Did the directions say not to answer the questions? And he passed because he didn't answer the questions? But really he didn't answer the questions because he didn't know the answers?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
New member
Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 459
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the test he failed multiple choice? True/false? Short answer? Essay? Oral? Other? Did he fail because he gave the wrong answers? He didn't answer at all? He didn't finish? He answered correctly, but for the wrong subject matter? Had he studied for this test? Did he expect to fail?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 697
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Was it a test of following directions? No.Did the directions say not to answer the questions? No, but I've had tests like that. Bleh. And he passed because he didn't answer the questions? But really he didn't answer the questions because he didn't know the answers? No.

Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)

Was the test he failed multiple choice? Yes.True/false? Could be. Short answer? Essay? Oral? Other? No to rest.
Did he fail because he gave the wrong answers? Yes. He didn't answer at all? He didn't finish? No to rest. He answered correctly, but for the wrong subject matter? Yope. Had he studied for this test? Probably not. Did he expect to fail? Irr.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
New member
Username: Cupofsun

Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm confused, was this puzzle called "New Message" earlier today? Is the title changing? I could have sworn it was called that. Sorry, I know this is random, just had to check.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
New member
Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 463
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the test in a particular class? English literature? English composition? History? Foreign language? Psychology? Sociology? Linguistics? Philosophy? Science? Math? Was it a midterm? Final? Placement test? Quiz? Pop quiz?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 700
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

I'm confused, was this puzzle called "New Message" earlier today? Is the title changing? I could have sworn it was called that. Sorry, I know this is random, just had to check. Not unless there was a temporary glitch with the forum, which I wouldn't rule out.

Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)

Was the test in a particular class? It was in a class, but subject irr. English literature? English composition? History? Foreign language? Psychology? Sociology? Linguistics? Philosophy? Science? Math? Was it a midterm? Final? Placement test? Quiz? Pop quiz? Irr to all.
Finno (Finno)
New member
Username: Finno

Post Number: 145
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he taking the test on a piece of paper or online? Other candidates taking the test relevant?
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 847
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it on a scantron or other similar form (the kind you have to fill in with a #2 pencil because they're read by a machine)?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 706
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finno (Finno)

Was he taking the test on a piece of paper or online? No, good question. Other candidates taking the test relevant? Noish.

Noel (Noel)

Was it on a scantron or other similar form (the kind you have to fill in with a #2 pencil because they're read by a machine)? No.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 870
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it an oral test?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 708
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Was it an oral test? No.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 878
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a physical test? A spatial test? A test written on the blackboard?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 716
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Is it a physical test? Like, of speed or endurance? No. A spatial test? DOYD*--it does involve a physical space. A test written on the blackboard? No.

*Depends on your Definition. =)
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 446
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A test taken in and/or testing knowledge of sign language? a lab practical?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 721
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)

A test taken in and/or testing knowledge of sign language? No. a lab practical? No.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 894
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a test that affects someone's grades? A test given by the teacher to a group of students?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 725
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Is it a test that affects someone's grades? Yes. A test given by the teacher to a group of students? Yes.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 925
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am RECAPing all that we know about the test he failed because I'm stuck. Hopefully this will help us see what we missed.

*****
It is a test for school that is given by a teacher to a group of students, and it does affect their grades.

It's a real academic test, he knew he was taking it, and he wanted to pass. He failed because he gave the wrong answers.It is not a psychological test, and no hidden cameras were involved. He is a student, and the test is a real test for school.

It could be a test for any subject, for any grade level from middle school to college (but most likely college).

It is multiple choice and/or true/false. However, it is not a scantron or other computer generated test.

Interestingly, it is also not short answer, essay, or oral. It is not a written test (not on a piece of paper, online, or on the blackboard). It is not a physical test. It does not have to do with sign language, and it is not a lab practical.

It does involve a physical space,

No cheating or plagarism is involved.

Other candidates taking the test are no-ish relevant.
***

Is everything above correct for the test he failed? If not, what is wrong?

Everything above is about the test he failed - the one he knew he was taking. Which parts are also true for the test he passed?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 728
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Is everything above correct for the test he failed? If not, what is wrong? Everything is correct, but when you say it is not a "computer generated test," I'm not sure what your definition of that would be...

Everything above is about the test he failed - the one he knew he was taking. Which parts are also true for the test he passed? Everything applies except, of course, "he knew he was taking it, and he wanted to pass. He failed because he gave the wrong answers."
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 996
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I meant "computer graded test" not "computer generated test."
Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member
Username: Tommyp

Post Number: 413
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Didn't he know he took the second test; because it was "secret"? because he didn't check good enough?
Were the two tests for different subjects?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 735
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Sorry, I meant "computer graded test" not "computer generated test." Ah. Then it is technically graded by computer.

Tommyp (Tommyp)

Didn't he know he took the second test; because it was "secret"? No. because he didn't check good enough? No.
Were the two tests for different subjects? Yes.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 1048
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he using a computer to take the test?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 742
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Is he using a computer to take the test? Yope.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member
Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 408
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He was taking both tests at once, but only knew about one of them, correct?
Was he expected to know about the other test? did the other students know about the other test? Was one test a subset of the other test? Or some kind of meta-test (a test on test-taking abilities, for instance)? A completely different test?
Did he pass the other test because he knew enough about that subject? Is passing the second test related in any way to his result in the first test? Or are the results of the two tests unrelated?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 746
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)

He was taking both tests at once, but only knew about one of them, correct? Yes.
Was he expected to know about the other test? No. did the other students know about the other test? No. Was one test a subset of the other test? No. Or some kind of meta-test (a test on test-taking abilities, for instance)? No. A completely different test? Yes.
Did he pass the other test because he knew enough about that subject? No. Is passing the second test related in any way to his result in the first test? Or are the results of the two tests unrelated? Hard to answer. In this specific instance, yes, he had to fail one test to pass the other.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
New member
Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 511
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looking back, I'm intrigued by that "yope" for "he answered correctly, but for the wrong subject matter." The test he passed, was it on the same general subject matter as the test he failed? Was it also multiple choice? Were the choices he selected for the test he knew he was taking the correct answers to the questions on the test he didn't know he was taking? Is some kind of computer glitch relevant?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 748
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)

Looking back, I'm intrigued by that "yope" for "he answered correctly, but for the wrong subject matter." The test he passed, was it on the same general subject matter as the test he failed? No. Was it also multiple choice? Yes indeed. Were the choices he selected for the test he knew he was taking the correct answers to the questions on the test he didn't know he was taking? Exactly. Is some kind of computer glitch relevant? I don't know if glitch is the word, but a problem involving computers, yes.
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 472
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the test involve "voting" for the correct answer by pressing a button on a remote? (in my department, for some of the introductory classes, they give [ungraded] quizzes during class where the students "buzz in" their answers on a special remote, and the number of each answer is tallied on a screen)

If it's something like this, is the "test" he passes that of demonstrating that his remote is functioning?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 753
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)

Does the test involve "voting" for the correct answer by pressing a button on a remote? YES!(in my department, for some of the introductory classes, they give [ungraded] quizzes during class where the students "buzz in" their answers on a special remote, and the number of each answer is tallied on a screen) Lucky for those students. We use them in many classes, often graded.

If it's something like this, is the "test" he passes that of demonstrating that his remote is functioning? No, but you're very close.

For anyone else, Googling is certainly allowed at this point. One brand of these remotes is called the iClicker.
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 474
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe there are two tests going on in the same room? or adjacent rooms? and the signals from the clickers are being processed by both receiving units?
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 1100
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, were two tests tuned to the the same channel/radio frequency?

(Funny...I'm learning how to use those remotes this week (as a teacher) but it never occurred to me that that's what could be going on here!)
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 755
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)

Maybe there are two tests going on in the same room? or adjacent rooms? Yes! and the signals from the clickers are being processed by both receiving units? Yes!

Noel (Noel)

Ah, were two tests tuned to the the same channel/radio frequency? Yes, or can only be tuned to one frequency.

(Funny...I'm learning how to use those remotes this week (as a teacher) but it never occurred to me that that's what could be going on here!)

***********SPOILER
Nice lateral thinking! A Shiny gold star for Biograd! With some horseshoes, clovers and blue moons to Noel and Ohlala!

Alex's class is one of those that uses wireless remotes to take quizzes and tests: the remotes have buttons for A-E, and a central computer displays multiple choice questions and collects the results. Alex doesn't study for this particular test, and though he guesses on every question he gets most wrong.
However, by coincidence, a class in the next room is using the wireless remotes for a test at the same time. The signal is strong enough that his answers are picked up by the other computer, and by sheer chance, he does better on the other test. Too bad he wasn't enrolled in that class.
Noel (Noel)
New member
Username: Noel

Post Number: 1114
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clever puzzle!
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 762
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you! And fortunately, the machine identifies students by remote serial number, so a professor can simply disregard any results that don't correspond to a student in her class.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: