| Author | Message | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4848 Registered: 8-2001 |
As a teacher, I often used to make a remark that I thought would please students, until I realized, as I should have all along, that it was apt to have the opposite effect. Many other teachers also make this mistake. What is it? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1276 Registered: 11-2008 |
Were you alluding to some quality of the students? Of yourself/teachers in general? Were the students likely to feel offended? ridiculized? stupid? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 711 Registered: 10-2008 |
Would the students infer something about their grades? About the difficulty of the class? About your opinion of them? About their futures? Is it something you say about the material being studied? About other classes you have had? | ||
| Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
New member Username: Quovynyte Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2009 |
Was the remark a question? A statement? Please students? Make them feel proud? Exited? How many years have you made this mistake? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50, 60? Is it about an event? When did you realize that it didn't please students? Did they tell you? Did you tell by their behaviour? By an event? Subject you teach relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4851 Registered: 8-2001 |
Alhucema (Alhucema) New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1276 Registered: 11-2008 Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Were you alluding to some quality of the students? yes Of yourself/teachers in general? no Were the students likely to feel offended? noridiculized? no stupid? yesish Gourami (Gourami) Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 711 Registered: 10-2008 Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 4:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Would the students infer something about their grades? yes About the difficulty of the class? yesAbout your opinion of them? yesAbout their futurespossibly Is it something you say about the material being studied? noish About other classes you have had? no Quovynyte (Quovynyte) New member Username: Quovynyte Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2009 Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 5:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was the remark a question? no A statement? yes Please students? Make them feel proud? noExited? possibly How many years have you made this mistake? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50, 60? probably about 3 Is it about an event? yes When did you realize that it didn't please students? Right before I stopped saying it Did they tell you? no Did you tell by their behaviour? no By an event? no Subject you teach relevant? no | ||
| Rushiano (Rushiano)
New member Username: Rushiano Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2009 |
You teach philosophy? Are this students adults, would you say the same to children? You said this with the intention of encourageing them to study harder? Was this remark a lie? Did you say it after or before the exams? Was this remark an order? yet they behaved as they were not supposed to Does a majority pass(approve) your course? Are they certain of this beforehand? Was this remark a reccomendation? Was this remark the description of something that usually "happened" with other courses you taught? | ||
| Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
New member Username: Sugarshane Post Number: 231 Registered: 7-2009 |
did you say something like "you only get what you put into it?" did you say this throughout the semister? or just at the first of the semister? at the end? would you say it to the whole class? or just individuals? was there something obvious that made you realize that your students didn't like what you were saying? | ||
| Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
New member Username: Quovynyte Post Number: 224 Registered: 6-2009 |
Was the event ... Historically related? School related? Did you say it more than once? Would you be pleased at this remark? Were they not pleased because of... Age? Gender? Religion? Nationality? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4853 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sugarshane (Sugarshane) New member Username: Sugarshane Post Number: 231 Registered: 7-2009 Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 3:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) did you say something like "you only get what you put into it?" Eeek, no. I Hope I don't say anything that cliched (although I probably do.)did you say this throughout the semester? There were particular occasions, occurring more than once per semester, when I might have said it or just at the first of the semister? neverat the end? possiblywould you say it to the whole class? yesor just individuals? was there something obvious that made you realize that your students didn't like what you were saying? yesish or yope Quovynyte (Quovynyte) New member Username: Quovynyte Post Number: 224 Registered: 6-2009 Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was the event ... Historically related? noSchool related? yes| Did you say it more than once? in some classes I said it more than once Would you be pleased at this remark? Were they not pleased because of... Age? no Gender? no Religion? no Nationality? no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 901 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are exams relevant? Written assignments? Other assignments? Are your expectations of students relevant? Did you say "you all did better than I expected"? Meaning it as a compliment? But they took it that you had low expectations of them? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4855 Registered: 8-2001 |
Noel (Noel) New member Username: Noel Post Number: 901 Registered: 7-2009 Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 7:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Are exams relevant? yes Written assignments? yesOther assignments? no Are your expectations of students relevant? noDid you say "you all did better than I expected"? no, but you're ORTMeaning it as a compliment? no But they took it that you had low expectations of them? no | ||
| Wefigure (Wefigure)
New member Username: Wefigure Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did you say something like: "Don't worry about grades,"and as a result, they figured they didn't have to study very hard to get a good grade? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 905 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is it something about how easy the test or assignment is? Something like "don't worry, you should all be able to do well on this"? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1605 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the students' effort relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4856 Registered: 8-2001 |
Wefigure (Wefigure) New member Username: Wefigure Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 11:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you say something like: "Don't worry about grades,"and as a result, they figured they didn't have to study very hard to get a good grade? no Noel (Noel) New member Username: Noel Post Number: 905 Registered: 7-2009 Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 12:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is it something about how easy the test or assignment is? no but you're ORT Something like "don't worry, you should all be able to do well on this"? no Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo) New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1605 Registered: 5-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the students' effort relevant?no | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 205 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did you compare the students to someone? Yourself? Students who had previously taken the test? Something like "when I was a student..." relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4857 Registered: 8-2001 |
Galfisk (Galfisk) New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 205 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 5:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you compare the students to someone? yesishYourself? noStudents who had previously taken the test? noSomething like "when I was a student..." relevant? no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 922 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did you compare the students to themselves at a different point in time? Are improvements from one test or assignment to another relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4858 Registered: 8-2001 |
Noel (Noel) New member Username: Noel Post Number: 922 Registered: 7-2009 Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you compare the students to themselves at a different point in time?no Are improvements from one test or assignment to another relevant? no | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 403 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did you say something about grades? Criteria for grading? About passing the test? Failing? Other students than those present? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4859 Registered: 8-2001 |
Markobr (Markobr) New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 403 Registered: 5-2009 Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 12:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you say something about grades?yes}Criteria for grading? no About passing the test? yopeFailing? yope Other students than those present? no | ||
| Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
New member Username: Probably_monty_hall Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2009 |
Are these students "special" in any way? Special needs? Gifted? relevant? Did your statement relate at all to the (potential? likelihood?) of grade inflation or grading on a curve? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4860 Registered: 8-2001 |
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall) New member Username: Probably_monty_hall Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2009 Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 2:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Are these students "special" in any way? noSpecial needs? Do you mean disabled? noGifted? relevant? Did your statement relate at all to the (potential? likelihood?) of grade inflation no or grading on a curve? no but you're ORT | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 411 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did you usually make the remark - when announcing a test will take place? - at the day of a test before it actually started? - during a test? - at the day of a test after it finished? - later after a test but before you know the test results? - when you know the results but before the students get to know their grades? - when the students already know their grades? Is the remark about all or most students passing the test? getting good grades? | ||
| Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
New member Username: Probably_monty_hall Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2009 |
Did you initially think that students would infer: - that they would get good grades? or had gotten good grades? - that the class would not be difficult? - that you held a high opinion of them? - that they had promising futures? In reality, did the exact opposite happen (to each of the above statements)? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4862 Registered: 8-2001 |
Markobr (Markobr) New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 411 Registered: 5-2009 Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 4:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you usually make the remark - when announcing a test will take place? no - at the day of a test before it actually started? no - during a test? no - at the day of a test after it finished? no - later after a test but before you know the test results? no - when you know the results but before the students get to know their grades? possibly - when the students already know their grades? possibly Is the remark about all or most students passing the test? see next answer getting good grades? yes! Now, it's not hard to see why it's not a great idea to volunteer that information, is it? Say why & you've solved the puzzle! | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 948 Registered: 7-2009 |
Because it makes the students who didn't do well feel bad? Because it makes the students who did get good grades thing that it's not a big deal because everyone else did too? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4864 Registered: 8-2001 |
Noel (Noel) New member Username: Noel Post Number: 948 Registered: 7-2009 Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 5:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Because it makes the students who didn't do well feel bad? yes Because it makes the students who did get good grades thing that it's not a big deal because everyone else did too? yes *****SPOILER ************ Did you ever have a teacher return exams & say brightly, "In general, the class did very well on this test." No doubt he felt benevolent, but I bet you felt bad. If you did well, I bet you thought it was no big deal, since the test must have been easy. If you did badly, I bet you felt stupid at having done badly on such an easy test. No student ever said this to me, but when I thought of it, I knew what not to say when returning exams.I also know what to say when spoiling puzzles: Please check out my new one at the bottom of the page! | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 961 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hmm, I've never thought of that, either. I am certainly guilty of saying it when I've handed back tests, and probably most teachers I had did the same thing. So now that you've realized it, what do you say instead (in circumstances when they really have done well collectively)? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 4866 Registered: 8-2001 |
I don't volunteer any information. If asked, I give accurate information about the grade distribution. | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 732 Registered: 10-2008 |
I have a professor who intentionally uses this effect to guilt-trip students into studying. As in, "Well, you'll be pleased to know the class average was very high. So if you failed, you must really have not studied at all." Good puzzle! |
